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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 09-13-2013, 3:18 PM
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Get a Savage or a Remington 700. Both will work fine.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2013, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Big 5 has a limited selection- perhaps about 50-60 rifles in each store. And I thought they were only socal.....

When he said big box stores, he probably meant Dicks sporting goods, bass pro.... whatever chains serve no cal. I've no idea whats up there... hadnt been north since 1993.
We have no bass pros, cabela's or turners. (The nearest bass pro is in stockton--though one in San Jose is opening soon) We do have 2 dick's, but they are 35 miles away from me. It's worth the drive to have a variety of rifles to try for size though.

Do they carry more than these rifles? http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/sh...Rifles_BigGame (no Tikkas, Rem 700 BDLs or Winchesters?)

Last edited by prometa; 09-13-2013 at 9:58 PM..
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2013, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Get a Tikka T3 Lite and you can thank me later.

Price range is between the two ranges you specified and IMO better than anything you have listed. The action is butter smooth and the barrel is fantastic. Out of the box hunting rifle, I can’t think of a better choice.

I was going to say the same thing. You'll get a sub MOA capable rifle, with the smoothest action, and you can pick it up in wood or synthetic if you'd like. It is by far the best gun for the money in its class.
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  #44  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:01 PM
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pride of ownership nailed it. No reason not to shoot a bolt action with irons if you have to. Buy a machine you love and don't look back. go shoot, shoot, shoot!
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prometa View Post
We have no bass pros, cabela's or turners. (The nearest bass pro is in stockton--though one in San Jose is opening soon) We do have 2 dick's, but they are 35 miles away from me. It's worth the drive to have a variety of rifles to try for size though.

Do they carry more than these rifles? http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/sh...Rifles_BigGame (no Tikkas, Rem 700 BDLs or Winchesters?)
Bass pro has a LOT more rifles than that...

Have you checked local one off gun shops?
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  #46  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:40 PM
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https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...l+/+Black+Syn/




Tikka T3 Lite Stainless. $651 shipped from buds.

Gives you some extra to do some goodies like a good one piece base, sling, rings, or whatever else you want to buy. Add some money for glass or whatever else you can think of. You'll be hard pressed to find a gun that shoots as straight as these guns. I believe they still guarantee a 1" 3 shot group with match ammo. Definitely give it a shot. Silkiest action you'll ever feel, even compared to 3500 dollar GAP actions and others. Right out of the box, they're unreal guns.
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  #47  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:46 PM
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I went to High Bridge Arms (in SF) because I didn't want to drive all the way to Dublin. I talked to two guys, Steve and Russell, for about 20 minutes. We talked wood vs synthetic, pricier vs cheaper, brands, etc.

Ended up starting DROS on a 700 SPS. I did consider a BDL or CDL because I really like wood, but I decided that this is going to be a field rifle and Steve's story about splitting a stock in the field convinced me synthetic was the way to go.

Went with the 700 because of the aftermarket--if I need more rifle later, there is plenty to choose from.

They didn't have a 30-06 in stock, so I had to order it, but I have to wait 10 days anyway, so who cares.

Now it's on to figuring out optics.
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  #48  
Old 09-14-2013, 2:09 PM
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You get to cry less when it slips off your shoulder and drops down the ridge.

The sps is a good choice. I have the buck master version in .30-06 with a Leupold scope and it works great. The scope cost the same as the rifle.

Definitely put your money on the glass. Good glass will work on a mediocre rifle but, crappy glass won't work on the best rifle made.
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  #49  
Old 09-14-2013, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by taloft View Post
You get to cry less when it slips off your shoulder and drops down the ridge.

The sps is a good choice. I have the buck master version in .30-06 with a Leupold scope and it works great. The scope cost the same as the rifle.

Definitely put your money on the glass. Good glass will work on a mediocre rifle but, crappy glass won't work on the best rifle made.
Well said!!

Now that you have a good rifle. You need to put as much effort in finding the right scope, bases, & rings for your rifle. Once done, you'll have a quality rig you can use and be proud of for life. Don't go cheap on glass!
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  #50  
Old 09-15-2013, 2:32 PM
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Browning--there no substitute!
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  #51  
Old 09-15-2013, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What you get for spending more is pride of ownership.

A $500 rifle with a $500 scope would likely serve you better than a $800 rifle with a $200 scope or a $200 rifle with an $800 scope.
HA! Exactly what he said. But, whatever you do, don't buy the Rem. 710 or 770 or whatever it is called. JUNK!
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  #52  
Old 09-15-2013, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCA View Post
May I suggest:

Model 70 (in .270 cal) W/ 3X9 Burris Scope
I paid a lot for it years ago and I'm glad I did!
(Forgot exactly how much but I know it wasn't cheapo)
I've killed a bunch of deer and some other "misc" animals with this gun.
(And no it's NOT for sale - ever)
The old addage is true: "You get what you pay for"
This. I love mine smooth action and the ladies will tell you that you have pretty wood! And like randall said spend the big bucks on glass.
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  #53  
Old 09-15-2013, 10:26 PM
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Default What do I get for $300 vs $800 in a bolt action?

It may come as a shock to lots of people but there was at one time a slew of old military rifles coming back into the US during the golden years before we became a fascist state. Anyways these old milsurps, many had been bastardized - drilled and tapped, stocks cut, etc. - and they were sold for $20 mail order. Or less. And they were designed to be minute of enemy accurate and function in every climate and condition. And they were "ugly", had loose fittings, and probably a few or more imperfections in their bores.

Yet for all their faults they killed more deer and fed more families than could be imagined. Year after year these old war horses would be pulled out of safes and taken into the field in more peaceful pursuits, their martial pursuits thankfully ended. War is the greatest evil of all. Better they should be carried by free men in peacetime seeking only to harvest some of the Lord's bounty, rather than being enlisted in service of satan's henchmen, politicians who lie and deceive, the demagogues who draw us into war.

And these rifles would be handed down from father to son, or daughter, and used to harvest game. Never was there worry about the rifle only the rifleman or riflewoman. Or rifleperson. Lest we offend anyone.

So go spend your riches on fancy hardware to kill a deer. Impress your fellow hunters. The deer won't care. My old sporterized 03A3 and my son's sportered mk4no1 will kill deer just as well. I don't begrudge anyone a fancy rifle. It is your money and to each their own. But a deer rifle is a rather simple tool. Who knows how many deer have been killed by that wretched little 30-30. So underpowered and so inaccurate. You'd think it impossible to feed a family with one.

The ruger American and the savage axis are more than accurate enough to kill deer. More than adequate. Which is all you want to do with it. Believe it or not millions of deer have been killed with far less rifle.

I hunt with a friend who uses a 50 or more year old savage 99 in 308. Can't recall a year he hasn't killed a deer.
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  #54  
Old 09-16-2013, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
Advice: Start cheap and go from there when you get more experience.
I have never understood this "logic". It makes no sense when you really think about it.

I would agree it makes no sense to spend $3000 or 4000 or more for a custom rifle if you have no experience. But buying cheap because you have no experience also makes no sense.

buy the best production rifle you can afford. the better the quality up front, the more $ you would get out if it if you choose to sell later for any number of reasons.
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  #55  
Old 09-16-2013, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by prometa View Post
Ended up starting DROS on a 700 SPS.
excellent choice to start with. you bought something above "cheap", yet didn't break the bank on a custom.

now, follow AR15barrel's advice about not going too cheap on a scope and you will have a great starter rifle with plenty of money left over for ammunition to practice with.
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  #56  
Old 09-16-2013, 4:51 PM
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What caliber did you go with on it
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  #57  
Old 09-16-2013, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
It may come as a shock to lots of people but there was at one time a slew of old military rifles coming back into the US during the golden years before we became a fascist state. Anyways these old milsurps, many had been bastardized - drilled and tapped, stocks cut, etc. - and they were sold for $20 mail order. Or less. And they were designed to be minute of enemy accurate and function in every climate and condition. And they were "ugly", had loose fittings, and probably a few or more imperfections in their bores.

Yet for all their faults they killed more deer and fed more families than could be imagined. Year after year these old war horses would be pulled out of safes and taken into the field in more peaceful pursuits, their martial pursuits thankfully ended. War is the greatest evil of all. Better they should be carried by free men in peacetime seeking only to harvest some of the Lord's bounty, rather than being enlisted in service of satan's henchmen, politicians who lie and deceive, the demagogues who draw us into war.

And these rifles would be handed down from father to son, or daughter, and used to harvest game. Never was there worry about the rifle only the rifleman or riflewoman. Or rifleperson. Lest we offend anyone.

So go spend your riches on fancy hardware to kill a deer. Impress your fellow hunters. The deer won't care. My old sporterized 03A3 and my son's sportered mk4no1 will kill deer just as well. I don't begrudge anyone a fancy rifle. It is your money and to each their own. But a deer rifle is a rather simple tool. Who knows how many deer have been killed by that wretched little 30-30. So underpowered and so inaccurate. You'd think it impossible to feed a family with one.

The ruger American and the savage axis are more than accurate enough to kill deer. More than adequate. Which is all you want to do with it. Believe it or not millions of deer have been killed with far less rifle.

I hunt with a friend who uses a 50 or more year old savage 99 in 308. Can't recall a year he hasn't killed a deer.
Well said. You should be a playwright or an author, or something... lol

My step dad also owns a sporterized '03 with a Redfield scope and it's a capable rifle.
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  #58  
Old 09-16-2013, 11:22 PM
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What caliber did you go with on it
30-06. They had a .308 in the store, but I didn't want to add a new caliber to keep track of. I already own a garand.
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  #59  
Old 09-17-2013, 5:10 AM
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Nice choice! Ditto on the don't go cheap on optics. Your $700 gun will only be as good as your $200 scope. If I may recommend a scope go with a leupold. Look into a VX3 and you'll be set for life.
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  #60  
Old 09-17-2013, 6:14 AM
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It sounds like you are a new hunter. One major point of caution is make sure you have $ in your budget for binoculars and I'm not talking a $100 pair.

Don't blow your whole wad on a scope that you will look through maybe 1x each trip versus binoculars which you should be using constantly. You cannot use your scope in lieu of bino's as scoping another hunter, vehicle, cabin, etc. is not safe.
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Giving lewdogg21 advice on hunting. That’s like David Hogg giving advice to the NRA.
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Disagree. Been trying to teach lewdogg21 how to hunt. It's like trying to teach Steve Wonder how to see. Not sure we're ever going to get there.
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  #61  
Old 09-17-2013, 8:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
It sounds like you are a new hunter. One major point of caution is make sure you have $ in your budget for binoculars and I'm not talking a $100 pair.

Don't blow your whole wad on a scope that you will look through maybe 1x each trip versus binoculars which you should be using constantly. You cannot use your scope in lieu of bino's as scoping another hunter, vehicle, cabin, etc. is not safe.
Great point. I "only" put a Nikon Buckmasters on my hunting rifle, but bought monarchs for my Bino's. Money well spent.
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  #62  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:51 AM
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I have the same question as the OP. I have been looking for some time. In the low end $300 range, there are some rifles that have established themselves as fine shooters with excellent triggers, a la Ruger American, Savage Trophy Hunter and Marlin XL7. So why do people spend twice that or more for premium rifles and why may I? This is what i have been able to gather so far:

1. Wood stocks. If you like the look of real wood on your bolt action rifles, and I do, you'll have to do it as an upgrade.
2. Metal finish will not be a brilliant blue, but rather, a "low glare" matte finish. and yes, cheaper.
3. The bolt finish will not be jeweled, chromed, twisted or otherwise. It will be basic and fully functional.
4. The synthetic stock will not be properly supported in the fore end but for more money, Savage solves this with an accustock with metal railings molded in place.

That's about all I can think of. The problem as I see it is that these $300 rifle are so good it kinda makes it hard make the jump.

But I love the look of a fine bolt action bedded on premium wood with a ebony fore end, a medallion on the pistol grip base, and a white ring around the butt stock to class some things up a notch.
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  #63  
Old 09-19-2013, 8:13 AM
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Default To address the OP's questions in a bit more depth...

IMHO:

1) Both the $300.00 rifle and the $800.00 rifle will shoot better than even $1000.00+ (in today's dollars) of 25-50 years ago.

2) In addition to better looks, along the way between $300.00 and $800.00 you are likely to pick up two really important things - an adjustable trigger and a better stock to action fit. Both are fundamental to accuracy and, to be fair, the $300.00 rifle may not be BAD in these areas - it's just that the more expensive rifle will be BETTER. It should be noted that you do not have to go all the way to $800.00 to get these features. The Ruger American Rifle is under $500.00 and has both, albeit in a molded synthetic stock.

3) There are many things that we mere mortals cannot see that tend to make a rifle more accurate. As you get into the $800.00 some of these things may be included, but likely not all.

a) A better barrel. How often the tool that cuts the rifling is changed has a great deal to do with how accurate a rifle is. In less expensive rifles, a faster and cheaper process is used. Can you get a good barrel? Absolutely. Can you also get a much less accurate barrel? Absolutely. This is why some inexpensive rifles shoot much better than others.

b) A tighter and batter chamber. A chamber can be headspaced "in spec" and safe - but this does not mean that it is accurate. Things like a "blueprinted" action where the bolt face is very much square to the chamber and is bearing equally on all lugs - as well as a tight chamber and a throat that is not overly long all contribute to accuracy. They also increase cost.

4) Even if you can qualify "expert" in the military or at an Appleseed event, even the inexpensive rifle will likely shoot much better than you can. If you are starting from scratch, I would advise you to buy a .22 and some ammo and the $300.00 bolt gun, rather than buying an $800.00 rifle you cannot shoot enough to get good....

BTW, I have sporterized three military rifles and while I had a lot of fun doing so, only one - my K31 - can consistently out-shoot a $500.00 rifle. I did a scout rifle in 8x57 (Yugo Mauser) and saved a lot of money - but even after bedding the action and installing a very nice trigger the best I have done is 1.5 MOA. I'm sure a Ruger Scout Rifle would shoot better. I built a light weight 30-06 on a Mauser action. I used a molded stock which I bedded and a nice trigger - so far the best I have done is about 1.5 MOA. (both rifles would shoot better with some load development, I'm sure.) If I were to do that one over again, I would just buy a Ruger American.....

Finally, Re: Scopes. If you are on a budget, consider going with a fixed 3-4x scope. Let's say you show up with a typical 3-9 variable for a guided hunt. What is the first thing your guide will tell you? Turn your scope down to it's lowest setting. Many of the great hunters of the past routinely used fixed 4x scopes.

Many believe that fixed power scopes in the less expensive brands are more reliable. Personally, my policy is to research, research, research. Just throwing money at the issue will not necessarily get you a better scope. Quality can vary at lot, even within the same brand.

OK, that's my $1.02 worth
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  #64  
Old 09-19-2013, 8:44 AM
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Very considerate write up
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  #65  
Old 09-20-2013, 1:19 PM
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Just what I was looking for, thanks guys.
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  #66  
Old 09-20-2013, 1:30 PM
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  #67  
Old 09-21-2013, 8:57 PM
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Tikka T3 - the best value on the market. You will not be disappointed.
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  #68  
Old 12-10-2013, 3:09 PM
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remington 770 with detachable magazine and a spare magazine costs 20 bucks shipped. Rifle comes with 3-9 x 40mm scope. Look for the deals. I just picked one up for $300 with 2 boxes new ammo here on calguns.
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  #69  
Old 12-10-2013, 4:19 PM
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ive had my stevens 200 for about 6 years, Paid around $300 and have about 500 rounds through it. The rifle has been nothing but great. it shoots under 1 moa out of the box with factory ammo.
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Old 12-10-2013, 4:33 PM
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remington 770 with detachable magazine and a spare magazine costs 20 bucks shipped. Rifle comes with 3-9 x 40mm scope. Look for the deals. I just picked one up for $300 with 2 boxes new ammo here on calguns.
Better idea, send me $200 and then go buy a Remington 700. It will be the cheaper than buying a 770.
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Old 12-10-2013, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bungi View Post
Tikka T3 - the best value on the market. You will not be disappointed.
I own a 700 and a T3 and if you're going to leave the gun stock, then I'd have to agree with this. If you plan on upgrading, you can't beat the 700.
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  #72  
Old 12-10-2013, 4:36 PM
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Buy the best you can.
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  #73  
Old 12-10-2013, 4:55 PM
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Why all the hate on cheap glass? I guess I might not know what I'm missing but I have never spent more than 250ish on a scope for a hunting riffle but I have never been let down. I have a leopold vx1 3x9-50 and a Burris fullfield II 3x9-40 both have held up well and both could be shot longer than is legal. I also have a old weaver K-4 that is decent but not as good in low light as the others.
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Old 12-10-2013, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What you get for spending more is pride of ownership.

A $500 rifle with a $500 scope would likely serve you better than a $800 rifle with a $200 scope or a $200 rifle with an $800 scope.
I think out of those I'd go $650 rifle and $350 scope just because the reality of the price of Savs Tikkas and 700s and the ability to get a SWFA or Bushnell Elite in a fixed 10x for relatively cheap.
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  #75  
Old 12-10-2013, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What you get for spending more is pride of ownership.

A $500 rifle with a $500 scope would likely serve you better than a $800 rifle with a $200 scope or a $200 rifle with an $800 scope.
I completely agree with this.

You can either have a great rifle and crappy glass, a crappy rifle and great glass, or a decent rifle and decent glass that will do the job consistently, but not better than most.
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Originally Posted by 0321jarhead View Post
Accuracy is not always the rifle, its the nut behind the stock.
"Use the shiny toys when you have them, but never, ever forget how to do it by hand." --- SGT. David Sillick A. Co. 4-64 AR, 3ID

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  #76  
Old 12-10-2013, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bogey View Post
Why all the hate on cheap glass? I guess I might not know what I'm missing but I have never spent more than 250ish on a scope for a hunting riffle but I have never been let down. I have a leopold vx1 3x9-50 and a Burris fullfield II 3x9-40 both have held up well and both could be shot longer than is legal. I also have a old weaver K-4 that is decent but not as good in low light as the others.
There is a difference between cheap glass and inexpensive glass.

Cheap glass is Walmart bargain bin quality at even lower prices, while inexpensive glass is relatively durable and without all the bells and whistles that would otherwise make it expensive.

Glass is firmly on the list of things of "you get what you pay for". Many companies make low cost, functional scopes for people on a strict budget. Primarily the beginning shooter/hunter. The rest make crappy scopes for the suckers who don't know any better and didn't take the time to research the product.

Initial investment is key and if it costs too much to start a hobby, be it models, shooting, whatever, many people will not make that initial investment because they have no secure knowledge of the returns said investment would make.

That's why you see so many "starter packages" and "rifle/scope" bundles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0321jarhead View Post
Accuracy is not always the rifle, its the nut behind the stock.
"Use the shiny toys when you have them, but never, ever forget how to do it by hand." --- SGT. David Sillick A. Co. 4-64 AR, 3ID

Everything is METTT-C
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  #77  
Old 12-10-2013, 5:37 PM
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Get this for $750...





http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=862293

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  #78  
Old 12-10-2013, 5:45 PM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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Originally Posted by prometa View Post
My real question is this: what do I get in an $800 rifle (R700 or Winchester M70) vs a cheaper $300-400 rifle (Savage Axis, for example).
what you get is a better rifle.

my advice don't buy cheap...doing that you almost always end up spending money twice.
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  #79  
Old 12-10-2013, 8:16 PM
bombadillo bombadillo is offline
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You buy a cheap rifle with bases canted 3* off to one direction, very little quality control, no guarantee like a Tikka t3 which guarantees 1" factory shots with match ammo. You get better fit and finish, which if you can't feel that then sorry about your luck. You get a nice crown, even bluing, parkerizing, or whatever finish you get. You typically get a nice smooth bolt low bolt lift weight, smooth draw on the bolt, and a quality 2-5lb adjustable crisp trigger. You typically won't get that on a cheap bolt gun. Eventually, almost everything about the rifle is going to make you want to upgrade it in one way or another. Good luck with your pick.
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Old 12-10-2013, 8:27 PM
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The cheapo guns tend to be entry level hunting rifles. They make work for your needs, but many will still feel the need to upgrade. The more expensive guns ($800) guns tend to provide a foundation from which you can start more precisions shooting. Granted, the $800 gun will have much more after you are done upgrading it.
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