Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 04-30-2019, 11:12 PM
Ugly Hombre Ugly Hombre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Banned from O.T. Territory.
Posts: 1,096
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

When was the last time you saw a pro gun, pro Constitution, pro NRA article in the main stream media????

Never?

Me to.

The current NRA hack jobs by the MSM are just another attack on the Constitution and the NRA- from another angle.

NRA may have problems but they are by far- the most effective anti gun grabber organization we have.

These current media attacks are a cloaked New Democrat planned political attack by the radical left on a organization they hate and fear. The NRA is the worst enemy of the New Democrat Neo- Communists.

And a best friend of our Constitution.

***"Without an all out effort from the NRA, Hillary could have triumphed
over Trump, and SCOTUS would now have 3 Anti-2A Ginsburg types
sitting on SCOTUS, swinging control to the Anti-Gun Zealots, which
would be a Disaster for the 2nd Amendment at this point in time."***

Truth!

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 04-30-2019 at 11:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-26-2019, 8:12 PM
Suresh*t's Avatar
Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 241
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Hombre View Post
When was the last time you saw a pro gun, pro Constitution, pro NRA article in the main stream media????

Never?

Me to.

The current NRA hack jobs by the MSM are just another attack on the Constitution and the NRA- from another angle.

NRA may have problems but they are by far- the most effective anti gun grabber organization we have.

These current media attacks are a cloaked New Democrat planned political attack by the radical left on a organization they hate and fear. The NRA is the worst enemy of the New Democrat Neo- Communists.

And a best friend of our Constitution.

***"Without an all out effort from the NRA, Hillary could have triumphed
over Trump, and SCOTUS would now have 3 Anti-2A Ginsburg types
sitting on SCOTUS, swinging control to the Anti-Gun Zealots, which
would be a Disaster for the 2nd Amendment at this point in time."***

Truth!
Again with the crying about how "this is just another leftist attack." y'all need to excavate your collective heads from you collective anus and get real.

And seriously, when did an article critical of the NRA ever do any actual lasting damage? You're giving the lefty press way too much credit.

The real thing you should be mad about is that the lefties have exposed the NRA for being the self-dealing scumbags that they are.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-27-2019, 1:06 PM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Again with the crying about how "this is just another leftist attack." y'all need to excavate your collective heads from you collective anus and get real.

And seriously, when did an article critical of the NRA ever do any actual lasting damage? You're giving the lefty press way too much credit.

The real thing you should be mad about is that the lefties have exposed the NRA for being the self-dealing scumbags that they are.
Yeah Lefty we get your point !
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-27-2019, 5:43 PM
Suresh*t's Avatar
Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 241
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Yeah Lefty we get your point !
Haha good one, Cletus! Dipsh*t. What are you doing to remedy this situation besides wanking here?
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:36 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,532
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Again with the crying about how "this is just another leftist attack." y'all need to excavate your collective heads from you collective anus and get real.

And seriously, when did an article critical of the NRA ever do any actual lasting damage? You're giving the lefty press way too much credit.

The real thing you should be mad about is that the lefties have exposed the NRA for being the self-dealing scumbags that they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Yeah Lefty we get your point !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Haha good one, Cletus! Dipsh*t. What are you doing to remedy this situation besides wanking here?
Wow.

Well, since you've made such an eloquent explanation of what
actions all of us should take, I'm sure people will be tripping all
over themselves to follow your leadership on these issues.

Interesting that you seem to Hate the NRA just as much as Bloomberg,
and maybe even more. Burning down the NRA this close to the
2020 Elections will only help the Democrats win, and enable them to
continue their agenda to neutralize the 2A out of existence.


But you don't seem to care about that. I wonder why.

If any of the Allegations against the NRA are proven to be true, they
will be dealt with accordingly. We have a BOD election coming up in
less than a year, and in the meantime NRA membership can voice
their concerns to the BOD, and if they find the response untenable,
they can Vote for Directors that align with their views, and if those
members win the majority, they get to implement changes.


That's how its done.

Not "Mob Rule" Rhetoric from some people, many of which aren't even
NRA members.

I would rather support an Imperfect NRA to insure a 2020 Election Win,
than abandon them and hope for the best. 2020 is just too Important.


Now, by all means, continue with your ill-informed, Anti-NRA Diatribes.
I'm sure Bloomberg appreciates the effort.


Noble
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:49 PM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Haha good one, Cletus! Dipsh*t. What are you doing to remedy this situation besides wanking here?
I am recruiting NRA members who love RKBA and liberty.

BTW your crude remarks against NRA members proves you have no class or dignity. You are exactly the type lefty we wish didn't own a gun!
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:58 PM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I am recruiting NRA members who love RKBA and liberty.

BTW your crude remarks against NRA members proves you have no class or dignity. You are exactly the type lefty we wish didn't own a gun!
Wait. I'm confused. So now the second amendment only applies to those with good manners? Please give us an exhaustive list of those you deem worthy of owning a firearm. I thought you supported gun rights and the NRA.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-27-2019, 9:58 PM
hunterb's Avatar
hunterb hunterb is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: SGV
Posts: 3,176
iTrader: 72 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Haha good one, Cletus! Dipsh*t. What are you doing to remedy this situation besides wanking here?


[img] https://i.imgur.com/N6Vx3Or.jpg [/img]
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
...The hardest part getting rid of crap is getting started.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-28-2019, 1:10 AM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,104
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The NRA is very flawed and I think Wayne and much of the Board should go.

But this is not a good time to abandon the NRA in general. The NRA is still essential to our freedom even if it is suffering from a lot of corruption issues.
__________________
CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Not qualified to give any legal opinion so pay attention at your own risk.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:07 AM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Wait. I'm confused. So now the second amendment only applies to those with good manners? Please give us an exhaustive list of those you deem worthy of owning a firearm. I thought you supported gun rights and the NRA.
Sure here's the list from John Adams;

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

Do I need to explain what that means and why he said it ?
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:49 AM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Please. Id love to hear you analysis.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-28-2019, 2:50 PM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Please. I’d love to hear you analysis.
The great experiment was that people were nearly sovereign with a very limited government.

The experiment proposed a small govt would work well because people were subject to and followed the law of Christian, Biblical principles.

Adams and others knew a nation of scumbags would require a big powerful government to deal with the additional criminal behavior .

Washington's Order Against Profanity
General Orders

August 3, 1776

The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.

Last edited by ja308; 05-28-2019 at 2:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-28-2019, 6:20 PM
FabulousSeal's Avatar
FabulousSeal FabulousSeal is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 12
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Ever heard of separation of church and state? Last I checked this is America and not a theocracy, and I don't have to follow any religion if I don't want to.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:54 PM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

So, JA308, are you asserting that only moral people should own guns? Who determines what is moral?
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-29-2019, 1:18 PM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
So, JA308, are you asserting that only moral people should own guns? Who determines what is moral?
When those who want the constitution eliminated, can convince enough people that society needs tougher rules which cannot be addressed under the constitution.
You will see that NO individual is moral enough to have the weapons of war!

There is a logical explaination why the big democrat media and their Hollywood friends, NEVER attribute protection of life or property to a firearm in civilian hands.

Yet these same people create the most vile,filthy models of degradation,hatred and racism imaginable.

You think they know of the John Adams quote? Yeah with 100% certainty and its their mission to create this immoral non religious society.
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-29-2019, 2:08 PM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

I dont think you answered my question.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-30-2019, 12:46 PM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I believe unprincipled crude democrat's should not own guns.
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 06-01-2019, 2:50 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I believe unprincipled crude democrat's should not own guns.
So in other words, the constitution should only apply to certain groups of people? Not really "rights" then are they? While I agree that a lot of people now days probably shouldn't have guns, I believe they should be able to. In my opinion, unless you've been convicted of a violent crime, anyone that is a citizen in this country should be allowed to own guns. The constitution wasn't written for just Christians or people deemed "moral", whatever that means. It applies to every citizen in the country, no matter their religion, race, or whether they use foul language that offends delicate people or not.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 06-01-2019, 3:08 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,104
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

To be technical? The suggestion was that certain democrats should not own guns. The suggestion was not that they should be prohibited from having guns.

Maybe the intent was to suggest that there should be a prohibition but that isn't quite what was said.
__________________
CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Not qualified to give any legal opinion so pay attention at your own risk.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 06-01-2019, 3:21 PM
wpage's Avatar
wpage wpage is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,765
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

As we approach the election year expect as part of the democratic strategy to win in 2020. More attacks on the NRA, viewed as a reason they lost in 2016...

As we have seen the democrats will lie cheat and steal to win. The NRA is a real target.
__________________
God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life.
John 3:16

United Air Epic Fail Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 06-01-2019, 3:39 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpage View Post
As we approach the election year expect as part of the democratic strategy to win in 2020. More attacks on the NRA, viewed as a reason they lost in 2016...

As we have seen the democrats will lie cheat and steal to win. The NRA is a real target.
The real reason they lost the 2016 election is because Hillary was allowed to get away with cheating for the nomination. It was kinda a crap shoot. The 2 most controversial candidates ever in a single election. Trump was just saying the right things and Hillary wasn't. He'll win in 2020 again because the dem base is so divided between the 25+ candidates, they'll all hate each other.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 06-01-2019, 3:45 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
To be technical? The suggestion was that certain democrats should not own guns. The suggestion was not that they should be prohibited from having guns.

Maybe the intent was to suggest that there should be a prohibition but that isn't quite what was said.
You are correct. I just assumed he meant they should be prohibited since he used typical liberal phrase "weapons of war" to describe firearms. Isn't pretty much every gun, knife, and pokey stick a weapon of war?
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-01-2019, 8:40 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6,104
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

If one goes back to around the time of the Revolutionary War one can get an interesting perspective on the context and intent of the 2nd amendment.

It is not much emphasized, but that "Shot heard 'round the world" was effectively about gun control. And especially about the citizenry having cannon and the gunpowder and shot for those cannon.

The militia often had firearms roughly on a par with the British.

The net effect is that when the 2nd amendment was written they had a good memory of how the British attempted to keep heavy weapons from the populace so that they would not be able to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

The assumption (which persists into current law in at least some states) was that participation in the militia was nearly universal for men. And at that time they wanted that militia to be trained and armed. What is more, they effectively appeared to want the militias to be able to kick the butts of at least any government above the state level.

In context I believe that the 2nd amendment was written with the intent that a sizeable portion of the citizenry should be armed and dangerous to the government as well as being able to defend their communities. In that context the militia should be able to have crew-served and other heavy weaponry.

There are practical limits to the weaponry which a local militia can reasonably train with and properly secure so I really don't see a militia as reasonably possessing nukes, fighter aircraft, large ships, etc. but I'm not so sure that the 2A is not intended to allow a properly capable militia to possess those.

Do understand. I don't even want a fully automatic weapon except maybe for sentimental/historical purposes - and I don't presently care enough about historical/sentimental purposes to pursue the issue. Semi-automatic with standard-capacity magazines are where I see my self-defense needs met. Fully automatic is often just wasting precious ammo although I do understand the value in some situations.

So this is not me arguing that I must be allowed to purchase and wield things like fully automatic weapons or crew-served weapons. I don't perceive enough interest or need on my part to pursue that even a little.

But I do not personally believe that there is a 2A limit to the type of weaponry which a properly organized, trained, and equipped militia should be allowed to possess.

What people don't like about my position is that I believe that our government has pushed us into a perverted interpretation of the 2A by trying to eliminate the militia as it is supposed to exist. In my opinion, if the government didn't have things thoroughly messed up, legal possession of firearms might be limited to those who are willing and able to reliably participate in a well-regulated militia. This could also mean that your local militia could bar bad actors from possessing firearms and participating in the militia if they had good cause to do so.

Properly done, the Virginia Beach atrocity should not be possible. There should have been many militia members shooting back at the cretin and if the shooter had been showing signs of being a bad actor the militia might have taken away his firearms (at least temporarily until things cooled down).

We'd also be building a better sense of community.

Yeah, lots of stuff in there for people to attack. I hope they have fun at it!
__________________
CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Not qualified to give any legal opinion so pay attention at your own risk.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-02-2019, 7:01 AM
bigcasino's Avatar
bigcasino bigcasino is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 279
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
The NRA is very flawed and I think Wayne and much of the Board should go.

But this is not a good time to abandon the NRA in general. The NRA is still essential to our freedom even if it is suffering from a lot of corruption issues.
I agree with this. Wayne has outlived his usefulness at the NRA and the Board needs some fresh blood.

I still support the NRA (I just support GOA and Calguns more) because they take the heat for the anti gun crowd. If not for the NRA the media and anti gunners would be attacking other groups, so the NRA is taking the fire so others can complete the mission.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin
NRA Patron Life Member
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
SAF Member
CCRKBA Member
CRPA Member
JPFO Member
#BlackGunsMatter #Glocks&Bagles
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:00 AM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcasino View Post
I agree with this. Wayne has outlived his usefulness at the NRA and the Board needs some fresh blood.

I still support the NRA (I just support GOA and Calguns more) because they take the heat for the anti gun crowd. If not for the NRA the media and anti gunners would be attacking other groups, so the NRA is taking the fire so others can complete the mission.
Wayne is an effective leader and spokeman who cannot be intimated or corrupted. .
The goal is to replace him with an invisible figurehead who will do nothing, challenge nothing.
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:44 AM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

The blind allegiance to one man is disturbing. To imply that he cannot be corrupted is insane. The NRA is our best 2a advocate at this time. But to not expect and demand transparency and accountability is ridiculous. Its not a perfect organization. There are areas in which it needs improvement. Pointing out such areas does not make one a leftist gun grabber.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:31 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Wayne is an effective leader and spokeman who cannot be intimated or corrupted. .
The goal is to replace him with an invisible figurehead who will do nothing, challenge nothing.
He can't be corrupted because he was never good in the first place. The goal is to replace him with someone who cares more about our rights than money. Wayne puts his profit above all else. Ever wonder why the NRA NEVER gets any big federal wins? Because if they actually did what they promise and get gun control overturned, people won't feel the need to continue donating. Wayne doesn't get his millionaire lifestyle anymore, which is exactly why they not only don't fight federal gun control, but they support a lot of it.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 06-02-2019, 9:27 PM
Frito Bandido's Avatar
Frito Bandido Frito Bandido is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 675
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

In this thread, this ja308 guy thinks that a fundamental human right should only be accessible to people with a particular political ideology. I mean seriously... WTF?

I'm sure that sort of thinking has never resulted in anything bad happening in the course of our history.

In another related thread, he espouses absolute faith in a political institution and defers any critical thinking in lieu of blind faith to whatever the institution's bombastic leader says is the truth, and attacks those who question the official/company line as enemies.

This kind of drone-like "thinking" is why we can't have nice things.

Last edited by Frito Bandido; 06-02-2019 at 9:33 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-02-2019, 9:46 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
In this thread, this ja308 guy thinks that a fundamental human right should only be accessible to people with a particular political ideology. I mean seriously... WTF?

I'm sure that sort of thinking has never resulted in anything bad happening in the course of our history.

In another related thread, he espouses absolute faith in a political institution and defers any critical thinking in lieu of blind faith to whatever the institution's bombastic leader says is the truth, and attacks those who question the official/company line as enemies.

This kind of drone-like "thinking" is why we can't have nice things.
Kinda scary, huh? Unfortunately, this is what a lot of people think all gun owners are like. Really gives us a bad name.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 06-03-2019, 8:48 AM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
In this thread, this ja308 guy thinks that a fundamental human right should only be accessible to people with a particular political ideology. I mean seriously... WTF?

I'm sure that sort of thinking has never resulted in anything bad happening in the course of our history.

In another related thread, he espouses absolute faith in a political institution and defers any critical thinking in lieu of blind faith to whatever the institution's bombastic leader says is the truth, and attacks those who question the official/company line as enemies.

This kind of drone-like "thinking" is why we can't have nice things.
Thats right! People of low moral character and lack of self control SHOULD NOT OWN GUNS !
That said I do not believe laws can be passed to stop these people. An armed population would self correct these types.

I also believe believe anyone NOT voting republican or showing loyalty to the GOP is a misled CHUMP and yes I know we have had some bad actors who do not deserve support.

Now please outline an effective strategy you believe will lead to liberty.

Your past statements condemning the NRA and its leadership, based on ANTIGUN media is not a winning tactic !
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 06-03-2019, 9:43 AM
Frito Bandido's Avatar
Frito Bandido Frito Bandido is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 675
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Thats right! People of low moral character and lack of self control SHOULD NOT OWN GUNS !
That said I do not believe laws can be passed to stop these people. An armed population would self correct these types.

I also believe believe anyone NOT voting republican or showing loyalty to the GOP is a misled CHUMP and yes I know we have had some bad actors who do not deserve support.

Now please outline an effective strategy you believe will lead to liberty.

Your past statements condemning the NRA and its leadership, based on ANTIGUN media is not a winning tactic !
I figured you weren't a big fan of the 5th and 14th amendments, but your admitting to that fact is much more effective than me simply pointing it out... so thanks for that. For someone who likes to get on his high horse about being "on the front lines" for liberty you'd think you'd be a supporter of that whole Due Process thing.

The only effective strategy at this point is two-prong.

First - build constructive grassroots by showcasing the thousands and thousands of times firearms are used in the defense of life. Finding these people isn't hard, they're freakin' everywhere. Showcase it everywhere and in whatever way is possible and appeal to people's sense of humanity in doing so. People can relate to real stories and real situations - they don't need empty platitudes and bombastic speeches. You know how anti-gunners parade around victims of shootings to push their political agenda? They do it because it's an effective strategy. The NRA should be parading around victims of attempted murders and attempted rapes who were able to survive the encounter because they had a gun. The NRA don't do this - they just fly their high-salary spokespersons around to give speeches with lots of empty platitudes. Know who that appeals to? NRA members who are ready to cough up more money.

This strategy would cost lots of money. The NRA uses a tiny fraction of their funds to do effective messaging, but then they turn around and piss away most of it doing other crap that doesn't do anything to help. Most of their messaging is delivered in a way that is just preaching to the choir and gin up fervor/donations instead of trying to educate people who don't know any better. That's because they're not actually trying to solve the problem - they're just reaching for your pocketbook.

Second - seek relief from the court. They do about as much of this as the other 2A organizations who have a tiny fraction of the NRA's budget. Why isn't the NRA doing more on this front? Why are they sometimes playing catch-up or showing up late to the party during important cases instead of being the leaders on it every single time, given their insurmountable financial advantage?

I know you think the NRA is doing the stuff I mentioned above. They're not. They're just doing the bare minimum - a half-hearted effort to placate the great unwashed while they keep screaming at you for more money. I am not satisfied with institutionalized mediocrity in an organization I am a member of and neither should you.

If you really think protection of our liberties is as simple as voting Red or Blue you are simply being willfully ignorant. The fact is neither party gives a crap about our 2nd Amendment rights. Our 2nd Amendment rights are just a political football used to gain support during election season. The Democrats use it to show that they're "doing something" about gun violence, and the Republicans use it to claim they'll "fight back", but then once they're in office they don't do a damn thing to help gun owners. If you're blind to that reality, then I don't know what to tell you... you're just being willfully ignorant.
__________________
When shopping at Amazon.com, enter Shop42A.com in the address bar, and Amazon donates money to the Calguns Foundation.


Last edited by Frito Bandido; 06-03-2019 at 9:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:43 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Agreed. All the stuff the NRA puts out like NRATV is pretty much geared towards people who are already members/gun owners. They should be putting stuff out there to try to gain support from those who don't currently support guns, and not like their current tactic of fear mongering. In my opinion, NRA salaries should be capped at $100k including benefits, no one should be making a seven figure salary. Most of the money should be going towards fighting the massive amount of unconstitutional laws we have. You know what happens if they do that and are successful? WE get to go on the offensive, and the left will be too busy fighting to undo it instead of advancing more and more with their agenda. The Republican party is no different than the dems. They are pretty much the same, only difference is the left is open about wanting to take your rights away while the right pretends like they want to protect them.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:49 PM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,257
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Id love to hear JA308s definition of low moral character. I would also like to hear how his position is supported by the the constitution. Heck, I dont think even Wayne, the man he clearly idolizes, would support his position.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 06-03-2019, 1:08 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Id love to hear JA308s definition of low moral character. I would also like to hear how his position is supported by the the constitution. Heck, I dont think even Wayne, the man he clearly idolizes, would support his position.
Depends on if he's getting payed to.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-04-2019, 8:15 AM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,408
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
I figured you weren't a big fan of the 5th and 14th amendments, but your admitting to that fact is much more effective than me simply pointing it out... so thanks for that. For someone who likes to get on his high horse about being "on the front lines" for liberty you'd think you'd be a supporter of that whole Due Process thing.

The only effective strategy at this point is two-prong.

First - build constructive grassroots by showcasing the thousands and thousands of times firearms are used in the defense of life. Finding these people isn't hard, they're freakin' everywhere. Showcase it everywhere and in whatever way is possible and appeal to people's sense of humanity in doing so. People can relate to real stories and real situations - they don't need empty platitudes and bombastic speeches. You know how anti-gunners parade around victims of shootings to push their political agenda? They do it because it's an effective strategy. The NRA should be parading around victims of attempted murders and attempted rapes who were able to survive the encounter because they had a gun. The NRA don't do this - they just fly their high-salary spokespersons around to give speeches with lots of empty platitudes. Know who that appeals to? NRA members who are ready to cough up more money.

This strategy would cost lots of money. The NRA uses a tiny fraction of their funds to do effective messaging, but then they turn around and piss away most of it doing other crap that doesn't do anything to help. Most of their messaging is delivered in a way that is just preaching to the choir and gin up fervor/donations instead of trying to educate people who don't know any better. That's because they're not actually trying to solve the problem - they're just reaching for your pocketbook.

Second - seek relief from the court. They do about as much of this as the other 2A organizations who have a tiny fraction of the NRA's budget. Why isn't the NRA doing more on this front? Why are they sometimes playing catch-up or showing up late to the party during important cases instead of being the leaders on it every single time, given their insurmountable financial advantage?

I know you think the NRA is doing the stuff I mentioned above. They're not. They're just doing the bare minimum - a half-hearted effort to placate the great unwashed while they keep screaming at you for more money. I am not satisfied with institutionalized mediocrity in an organization I am a member of and neither should you.

If you really think protection of our liberties is as simple as voting Red or Blue you are simply being willfully ignorant. The fact is neither party gives a crap about our 2nd Amendment rights. Our 2nd Amendment rights are just a political football used to gain support during election season. The Democrats use it to show that they're "doing something" about gun violence, and the Republicans use it to claim they'll "fight back", but then once they're in office they don't do a damn thing to help gun owners. If you're blind to that reality, then I don't know what to tell you... you're just being willfully ignorant.
The NRA or any other RKBA group is NOT allowed to advertise on the types of media you and other cal gunners seems to believe!
So where are you going to show these defensive gun uses ?

Page after page of NRA?GOP victory's on RKBA but you prefer to miss it all because its not on NETWORK TV where you spend your time. The NRA is not allowed air time at pro sports either.

Friends please compare red states like Utah, Texas, Arizona (REPUBLICAN) with New York, California or Illinois (DEMOCRAT) and decide which you like best.

The best strategy we have is to join the NRA and follow NRA voting recommendations and encourage others do to the same.

BTW the name calling and preaching is tiring to read. Even from a cartoon character that sells a form of corn chip !
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guys money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.

Last edited by ja308; 06-04-2019 at 8:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-04-2019, 11:29 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
The NRA or any other RKBA group is NOT allowed to advertise on the types of media you and other cal gunners seems to believe!
So where are you going to show these defensive gun uses ?

Page after page of NRA?GOP victory's on RKBA but you prefer to miss it all because its not on NETWORK TV where you spend your time. The NRA is not allowed air time at pro sports either.

Friends please compare red states like Utah, Texas, Arizona (REPUBLICAN) with New York, California or Illinois (DEMOCRAT) and decide which you like best.

The best strategy we have is to join the NRA and follow NRA voting recommendations and encourage others do to the same.

BTW the name calling and preaching is tiring to read. Even from a cartoon character that sells a form of corn chip !
They're already paying millions for their garbage NRATV, why not use that for stuff that actually matters instead? Your argument makes no sense and it's clear that you are just trying to defend the NRA's every move, no matter how wrong it is.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-04-2019, 1:05 PM
mrrabbit mrrabbit is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,157
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
The NRA or any other RKBA group is NOT allowed to advertise on the types of media you and other cal gunners seems to believe!
So where are you going to show these defensive gun uses ?

Page after page of NRA?GOP victory's on RKBA but you prefer to miss it all because its not on NETWORK TV where you spend your time. The NRA is not allowed air time at pro sports either.

Friends please compare red states like Utah, Texas, Arizona (REPUBLICAN) with New York, California or Illinois (DEMOCRAT) and decide which you like best.

The best strategy we have is to join the NRA and follow NRA voting recommendations and encourage others do to the same.

BTW the name calling and preaching is tiring to read. Even from a cartoon character that sells a form of corn chip !
Again, the NRA:

1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.
4. Cannot become one unless it's willing to lose membership.
5. Has been responsible for some of the biggest gun controls acts and measures nationwide and in states.
6. Continues to argue in court for banning open carry (default exercise) in favor of concealed (regulated as a privilege).
7. Continues to lobby in states for banning open carry in favor of concealed just as it did recently back east.
8. Continues to support and fund politicians and candidates on both sides of the aisle - including anti-gunners and anti-2A as a lobbying organization.

The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization nationwide or at the state level.

=8-(
__________________
Justice Thomas: " I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen. "
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 06-04-2019, 1:59 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Again, the NRA:

1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.
4. Cannot become one unless it's willing to lose membership.
5. Has been responsible for some of the biggest gun controls acts and measures nationwide and in states.
6. Continues to argue in court for banning open carry (default exercise) in favor of concealed (regulated as a privilege).
7. Continues to lobby in states for banning open carry in favor of concealed just as it did recently back east.
8. Continues to support and fund politicians and candidates on both sides of the aisle - including anti-gunners and anti-2A as a lobbying organization.

The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization nationwide or at the state level.

=8-(
But, muh NRA! JA says Wayne has been fighting in the trenches against the evil hoards of liberals, fearlessly conquering the gun control agenda and protecting our rights more than anyone else in history. He couldn't possibly be brainwashed into worshiping a false god, could he?
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-04-2019, 3:37 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,532
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Emphasis mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Again, the NRA:

1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.
4. Cannot become one unless it's willing to lose membership.
5. Has been responsible for some of the biggest gun controls acts and measures nationwide and in states.
6. Continues to argue in court for banning open carry (default exercise) in favor of concealed (regulated as a privilege).
7. Continues to lobby in states for banning open carry in favor of concealed just as it did recently back east.
8. Continues to support and fund politicians and candidates on both sides of the aisle - including anti-gunners and anti-2A as a lobbying organization.

The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization nationwide or at the state level.

=8-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
But, muh NRA! JA says Wayne has been fighting in the trenches against the evil hoards of liberals, fearlessly conquering the gun control agenda and protecting our rights more than anyone else in history. He couldn't possibly be brainwashed into worshiping a false god, could he?
Well, that's Interesting.

So you agree with mrrabbit:

"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level
."



Noble
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 06-04-2019, 3:48 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Emphasis mine:





Well, that's Interesting.

So you agree with mrrabbit:

"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level
."



Noble
Depends on how you look at it. Currently, none of them are as effective as they should be, but considering the amount of money they have to work with, the GOA is as effective as it can be currently. I believe that if they had the base and income the NRA has, they would be significantly more effective. The NRA has no excuse for being as ineffective as they are.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:31 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.