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  #81  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:15 AM
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G34
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  #82  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SILENT GUNMAN View Post
No love for the new SIG 227? It has what everyone is asking for.

Double stack mags
Isn't it 1.5 stack, not a full double one. I can hardly see how doublestack mag can only have 10rd capacity
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  #83  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:19 AM
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Anything but Glock.
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  #84  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:21 AM
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Personal preferences asides the M9 does its job well. Are there better choices, absolutely. But for its purpose its pointless to waste a ridiculous amount of money to adopt a new platform. Holsters, supplies, training materials, etc.

Personally I'm partial to the P226 if we're stuck in 9mm.
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  #85  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BEE View Post
CZ SP-01
This or the CZ P-01.
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  #86  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:26 AM
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CZ SP-01


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Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
This or the CZ P-01.
Why would they go with a compact?
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  #87  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:32 AM
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Nothing wrong with Berettas except they are wore the F out and abused by a bunch of knuckle busting 19 year olds (used to be one of them).
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  #88  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:37 AM
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Sig 226
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  #89  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 3lixer View Post




Why would they go with a compact?
Because the sp01 is back ordered duh po1's easier to find!! All jokes asides other would fit the bill nicely. On the p01 is less then 2in shorter then the all steel sp01. Why not other one?
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  #90  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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I've qualified with both the 1911 & the M9. I also own both guns. Folks on these boards are gun people, believe it or not but most military are not. ND's went down a lot when the switch to the M9 was implemented along with improved scores. The 1911 needs a lot of servicing for the amount of rounds sent through them & most parts can't be dropped into them without some sort of fitting. The M9 is fine for the masses, for more specialized units give them more specialized weapons along with the training & the budget.
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  #91  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:56 AM
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As much as I'm a fan of Sig, I would say Glock.

Glock is reliable, durable, simple, easy to maintain, easy to operate, and most important of all, very cost effective.

We can't think like pistol shooters. We have to think at an organization level. Not everyone issued with a pistol is an avid pistol shooter. They aren't pistol enthusiasts, nor do all of them have the time or the desire to familiarize themselves with a pistol. Most of them just want to grab one and fire at the enemy when all else fails.

We are also replacing tens of thousands of pistols at a time. We can buy 2 Glocks for every Sig. That's some substantial savings out the door. Glocks are simple and reliable. That translates to savings over the life of the weapon. Glocks are easy to use. That means less instruction time needed. That's also a huge savings over the life of the weapon.
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  #92  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigfan91 View Post
As much as I'm a fan of Sig, I would say Glock.

Glock is reliable, durable, simple, easy to maintain, easy to operate, and most important of all, very cost effective.
It's a simple test. Send 30000 rounds through Glock and Sig and then compare. I am sure Sig frame will be just fine, while I am not sure about Glocks plastic one
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  #93  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:52 PM
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P226/P228(M11)
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  #94  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:52 PM
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The M9 seems to be working just fine, leave it alone.
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  #95  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
9mm Hi-Points.

The enemy will die because of the ugliness.
Well each guy could have 4-5 each. Maybe not a bad idea!
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  #96  
Old 04-25-2014, 1:03 PM
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M4? Works for me.
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  #97  
Old 04-25-2014, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
lol..



I say M&P because its not a Glock , no manual safety so I doubt it will ever happen . I forgot some do have manual safety.
I thought you could get M&Ps with manual safeties?

I'd vote M&P 9s. I'd say Glock, but it would be better to have an American company.
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  #98  
Old 04-25-2014, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 357magnum View Post
The M9 seems to be working just fine, leave it alone.
Good point, how many millions of taxpayer dollars would have to be spent to "study and test" a new pistol, and all the bribery and political favoritism, cost of training, etc, etc ... forget it, just stick with what's already there.
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  #99  
Old 04-25-2014, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by riderr View Post
It's a simple test. Send 30000 rounds through Glock and Sig and then compare. I am sure Sig frame will be just fine, while I am not sure about Glocks plastic one
If 30,000 is actually a reasonable number (I guess it might be in the service, I don't know) then consider that you could replace the Glock frame for like $100 or whatever verus a Sig frame. Cost to maintain Glocks would be a fraction of the cost of a Sig.
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  #100  
Old 04-25-2014, 1:58 PM
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Guess I'm old school - go back to the 1911A1. None of that double tap crap 1 round will do it.
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  #101  
Old 04-25-2014, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderr View Post
It's a simple test. Send 30000 rounds through Glock and Sig and then compare. I am sure Sig frame will be just fine, while I am not sure about Glocks plastic one
My source tells me that a Glock will outlast a Sig. He's been in the firearm industry (defense in general) his entire life. He says AK's legendary reliability comes close to a Glock.

I love my Sigs. I am more accurate with my P226 than my G19. If the fit hit the shan tomorrow and I'm allowed only 1 pistol to use for the rest of eternity, I just might go with a Glock.

By the way, I've heard Sig's aluminum frame will start to crack around 150k, maybe 200k rounds. I don't know about Glock.
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  #102  
Old 04-25-2014, 2:51 PM
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Some are saying SA XD's but this will never happen. No safeties, as stated not all services guys are gun guys. You need the decocker and safety.

I like Springfields and if (when) CCW comes to CA, I will carry my XD service or my SA 1911 (I have concealed carried in AZ and it hides well).

I have a M9, I say stick with it for now. The cost of replacing them would be exceptional and the costs (parts in storage, spare magazines, training (not just armor's but the shooters)) would be astronomically.

I have never served, thanks to those that do, and when I was a kid my countries army were still carrying webleys revolvers. They now carry H&K's 9mm but very few are given handguns. Mostly Styr rifles.
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  #103  
Old 04-25-2014, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderr View Post
Did I say 1911?

If the round count is the only criteria, you'd be better off with .22
I think EFFECTIVE round count matters (which is why he didn't throw in .380 ACP). If caliber mattered as much as you think in killing power, all rifles would be 30-06 or better yet, .50 BGM. Sure the soliders would have fewer rounds, but the biggest caliber not number of rounds always wins in a gun fight right? That's why the Taliban ALWAYs beat us right? 7.62 versus 5.56.

Time to put away big, heavy antiquated cablers for general use because round count matters more as long as the round is still effective and 9mm is.

Sig P226 because polymer doesn't cut it on the battlefield.
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  #104  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SILENT GUNMAN View Post
No love for the new SIG 227? It has what everyone is asking for.

Double stack mags
.45 acp (yeah screw NATO)
DA/SA
Decocker
Proven SIG reliability/durability
Similar size to the P226
Not a wimpy 9mm

Its the perfect gun to switch to if they were going to switch. I would be on board for the Glock 21 as well but since most military members that are trained with a pistol are already trained with DA/SA the transition to the new platform would be fairly simple.
Good call on the P227.
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  #105  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:27 PM
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It isn't the best handgun but there is no reason to waste tax payer money on this. The M9 does its job well enough. To quote a combat vet friend of mine, "If your down to your pistol then you are already dead". No matter how you look at it though, to play the game, it makes zero sense to go to a weapon with a lower capacity. It does make sense to go a lighter weapon. Not sure why so many people are anti-Glock, it seems a very legit choice. Again, to play the game. Lightweight, easy enough to use for all genders and sizes, high capacity, 9mm is NATO, Glock is standard with a few countries and some US Special Operation unit members, Glock is Pro-2A, inexpensive and Glock has the ability to fill such an order.
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  #106  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
If 30,000 is actually a reasonable number (I guess it might be in the service, I don't know) then consider that you could replace the Glock frame for like $100 or whatever verus a Sig frame. Cost to maintain Glocks would be a fraction of the cost of a Sig.
Yeah, right. Let's make plastic ARs too for issue to save money too. And plastic helmets too. I'd carry them. Not.
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  #107  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:44 PM
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Back in 2006, military suspended the program to replace 9mm with .45
H&K designed HK45 specifically for that contest.

Last edited by riderr; 04-25-2014 at 3:47 PM..
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  #108  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sigfan91 View Post
My source tells me that a Glock will outlast a Sig. He's been in the firearm industry (defense in general) his entire life. He says AK's legendary reliability comes close to a Glock.

I love my Sigs. I am more accurate with my P226 than my G19. If the fit hit the shan tomorrow and I'm allowed only 1 pistol to use for the rest of eternity, I just might go with a Glock.

By the way, I've heard Sig's aluminum frame will start to crack around 150k, maybe 200k rounds. I don't know about Glock.
I am sure Glock's plastic frame with crack much faster than Sig's aluminum one.
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  #109  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
If 30,000 is actually a reasonable number (I guess it might be in the service, I don't know) then consider that you could replace the Glock frame for like $100 or whatever verus a Sig frame. Cost to maintain Glocks would be a fraction of the cost of a Sig.
The question is how many Glock frames you will replace on 30K shot count. One, two, three, ...? The price difference between Glocks and Sigs is about $300, however Sig grips are slimmer and fit more hands, than the thick Glocks.

Last edited by riderr; 04-25-2014 at 4:07 PM..
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  #110  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Yeah, right. Let's make plastic ARs too for issue to save money too. And plastic helmets too. I'd carry them. Not.
Plastic lower receiver for AR-15 is not uncommon
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  #111  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:01 PM
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The question is how many Glock frames you will replace on 30K shot count. One, two, three, ...?
Combat is rough on gear. You don't want key parts of your weapon plastic because failure or damage is death to you or your squad. Polymer frames? Just say no.

Those wussy Limeys can use them if they want, but heck, half their legislative body isn't even elected (House of Lords hold seats by birth right—aka divine right) so they genuflect to the monarchy on their knees and don't have a constitution and bill of rights so I am not surprised. DOn't get me wrong, the SAS are bad folks, but they are the minority in a nation that largely bans civilian firearms ownership.
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  #112  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:02 PM
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1911 it's a war horse but regardless of gun, caliber should be .45 I mean if you limited to ball ammo like the military is might as well have a big hole.
Another vote for the 1911 - It wasn't broke why did they fix it other than bowing to other NATO countries.
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  #113  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:05 PM
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Plastic lower receiver for AR-15 is not uncommon
Not in the military. Maybe with mall ninjas or people that don't need lifesaving reliability in a war zone.
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  #114  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:07 PM
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Another vote for the 1911 - It wasn't broke why did they fix it other than bowing to other NATO countries.
Rounds to send down range and the weight to carry them. It's that simple. when modern warfare developed after Vietnam, the military moved toward mobility and rapid deployment and the .45 is too heavy to carry adequate rounds. warfare changed and the .45 was left behind. It still has many uses, but not as a general service pistol any more. I'll repeat, if caliber was the key determinator of success in a gun fight, all rifles would be 30-06 or bigger. It's not. More rounds of an effective killer (9mm) is better than far fewer. A miss with a .45 is still a miss but now you have fewer left and that can cost you your mission and your life.
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Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 04-25-2014 at 4:26 PM..
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  #115  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:10 PM
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Not in the military.
Yup.
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  #116  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:12 PM
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PX4 storm
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  #117  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:25 PM
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I am sure Glock's plastic frame with crack much faster than Sig's aluminum one.
You're sure? Do you have any statistics to back that up? Or even anecdotal stories? I don't have any.
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  #118  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:28 PM
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You're sure? Do you have any statistics to back that up? Or even anecdotal stories? I don't have any.
You want to argue polymer has the same durability and tensile and compression strength on all axes as steel? Really? Gimme a hit, because whatever you are smoking is primo stuff.
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  #119  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
More rounds of an effective killer (9mm) is better than far fewer. A miss with a .45 is still a miss but now you have fewer left and that can cost you your mission and your life.

1986, Miami, FL. This could've turned out differently
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  #120  
Old 04-25-2014, 4:29 PM
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Can someone remind me again what material the HK Mk 23 is made of? Steyr AUG? HK G36?
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