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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-14-2018, 6:50 AM
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Default Are there any 5.56 rounds made specifically for AR pistols or SBRs?

Been hearing and reading how loud the AR pistol is. Some attribute it to the short barrel and incomplete powder burning for ammo made for 16"+ barrels. Some also say the loss of muzzle velocity makes the round useless out of a <14" barrel, etc.

Is there any 5.56x45 ammo made specifically for short barrelled rifles?
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:03 AM
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300 blk?
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:04 AM
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I also wouldn't want to stand in front of any length ar barrel. 10.5 seems to do fine for our troops.
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by KaLiFORNIA View Post
I also wouldn't want to stand in front of any length ar barrel. 10.5 seems to do fine for our troops.
Military doesn't use 10.5, at least not outside of perhaps something in a special ops armory
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:24 AM
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https://www.riflegear.com/p-8115-hor...-sbr-20rd.aspx
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Been hearing and reading how loud the AR pistol is. Some attribute it to the short barrel and incomplete powder burning for ammo made for 16"+ barrels. Some also say the loss of muzzle velocity makes the round useless out of a <14" barrel, etc.

Is there any 5.56x45 ammo made specifically for short barrelled rifles?
556/223 is obnoxious in a pistol/sbr.
There are no special ammo loadings that'll fix the noise/concussion. Conversion kit to run 22lr is the answer here in C.A., or move to a silencer friendly state.

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Old 08-14-2018, 8:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Been hearing and reading how loud the AR pistol is. Some attribute it to the short barrel and incomplete powder burning for ammo made for 16"+ barrels. Some also say the loss of muzzle velocity makes the round useless out of a <14" barrel, etc.
I would say the AR is designed for a 20" barrel, but maintains acceptable performance down to 16". Below that the performance starts to tail off quickly and blast and concussion start to increase quickly.

I thought I read somewhere that the US military will be moving up to 16" barrels from 14.5". Can't find it now. The M27/IAR has a 16.5" barrel.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:06 AM
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70gr tsx and the 50gr Vmax are the standards for SBR performance as far as I am aware. Look up what people run in their Mk18 clones and HK416 clones as well as what the special forces actually use. I personally would opt for the 70gr just to get the extra weight at slower speeds.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by B.J.F. View Post
With the gas system, I am not sure if doing a sub sonic custom loaded round would work and cycle correctly

We had put a brake on a Registered AW Pistol, defiantly a huge difference in how it shot one handed. Extremely unpleasant to be on either side of the shooter. It looked a lot like the brake on the Registered Armalite AR-50 my friend has.

It does however make one cool looking effect in cold weather when your standing behind the shooter watching.
Subsonic with a 55-63 grain bullet is certainly not going to have very much energy. I think you are right about the Weapon not cycling.
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Old 08-14-2018, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishJoe3 View Post
Military doesn't use 10.5, at least not outside of perhaps something in a special ops armory
Perhaps?

https://danieldefense.com/daniel-def...-mil-spec.html

Quote:
The Daniel Defense MK18 features the railed forend Daniel Defense currently provides to USSOCOM and a 10.3” Cold Hammer Forged Barrel.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-2018, 1:17 PM
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I thought noise and a huge fireball was part of the appeal of an AR pistol??

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Originally Posted by Over It View Post
Check out the reviews on that round here:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...-sbr-box-of-20

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/horn...5.aspx#reviews
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2018, 2:19 PM
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Hornady 75 g BTHP T2 TAP
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ri...gr-bthp-t2-tap


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  #13  
Old 08-14-2018, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rorge Retson View Post
I thought noise and a huge fireball was part of the appeal of an AR pistol??

That's the only reason I like my rifle caliber pistols! Energy is not there, but obnoxiously fun noise making is.
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2018, 4:51 PM
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Try Atomic sub-Sonic ammo. But honestly throw an adjustable GB on there and you'll be good to go. No first hand, but just a thought.


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Old 08-14-2018, 5:00 PM
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these specs are from a 7.5 inch barrel Saint AR Pistol
black hills 50 gr. VMAX 2408 FPS
HORNADY TAP 55GR. FPD 2223 FPS
FED. GOLD MEDAL 69 GR. 2015 FPS
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2018, 5:11 PM
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I still remember Bill Fleming at a demo with a 5 1/2" HK-91 firing full auto. It was basically a big fireball with a small gun and fat guy behind it.
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Old 08-14-2018, 5:28 PM
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If your the one shooting its not bad at all. Shooting a 10.3” is actually pretty pleasant with a flash hider, and if your in a free state throw a dedicated 556 can on it and its a pretty sweet set up.
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Old 08-14-2018, 5:50 PM
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If you're active or retired military/LE you can get sbr TAP:

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst....cfm/ID/167785
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:46 PM
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I shoot a bunch of 50gr frangible out of my mk18 and with the warcomp it's just a dull thud , not loud really.

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Old 08-14-2018, 7:35 PM
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How about a muzzle brake with detachable blast deflector?
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
556/223 is obnoxious in a pistol/sbr.
There are no special ammo loadings that'll fix the noise/concussion. Conversion kit to run 22lr is the answer here in C.A., or move to a silencer friendly state.

Sent using a long string and 2 used soup cans
I've often wondered what good does an SBR do if you add in the extra length of the suppressor? I suppose it is better than a 16" barrel with a suppressor.
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Been hearing and reading how loud the AR pistol is. Some attribute it to the short barrel and incomplete powder burning for ammo made for 16"+ barrels. Some also say the loss of muzzle velocity makes the round useless out of a <14" barrel, etc.

Is there any 5.56x45 ammo made specifically for short barrelled rifles?
Useless is relative. Sure you aren't going to get great terminal energy at 200+ yards but short barrel ARs and SBR are for close quarters engagements.
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:45 PM
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I have a 10.5 in 300 Blk. I installed a Kinetic Tech brake with there concussion redirector sleeve and it makes a work of difference. My brother has a 10.5 w/5.56 barrel without one and it down right sucks standing anywhere near him at the range.
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Old 08-14-2018, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
I've often wondered what good does an SBR do if you add in the extra length of the suppressor? I suppose it is better than a 16" barrel with a suppressor.
My 10.5 300Blk with can is the same OAL as one of my 16" rifles but around 120ish db

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Old 08-15-2018, 6:26 AM
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OP here. Thanks for all the useful answers. It sounds like 5.56 AR pistols with short barrels can be made almost as capable as 5.56 rifles with right ammo.

With the right optic and the right ammo, why can't SBRs be used for long range? Switching the topic a bit to remove the pistol brace variable from the conversation.
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Old 08-15-2018, 6:56 AM
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I use a 10.5 with kak flash can. Works great. 8 have no issue banging the gongs at 250/290 yds using 55gr
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:07 AM
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OP, This was your best answer.
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:11 AM
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People say lots of things . I can shoot a AR Pistol 7.5 ot 10.5 as good as a 16 inch . Optics beng the same at 100 yards . I Generally run Tula for screwing around and at the range. Never a problem . But I would have no issues Using it as a Self Defense Firearm if needed. I also Run a Pws Cab Flash hider/Muzzle Break it takes a lot of the Crack out of the Bang . Kind of hard to explain but it definitely takes the Volume down from the Bangle of any AR .

Last edited by dozer wright; 08-15-2018 at 9:00 AM..
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:33 AM
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I would have no issues Using it as a Self Defense Forearm if needed.
Good stuff right there!!
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Old 08-15-2018, 8:15 AM
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OP, This was your best answer.
Yes, thanks. Gonna keep an eye out on prices!
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
OP here. Thanks for all the useful answers. It sounds like 5.56 AR pistols with short barrels can be made almost as capable as 5.56 rifles with right ammo.

With the right optic and the right ammo, why can't SBRs be used for long range? Switching the topic a bit to remove the pistol brace variable from the conversation.
Because they go subsonic at 500 yards or so. If you just want to make steel go tink, it's okay. But otherwise it's not very effective.

If you want to shoot sbr's at long range, stick a Blackout upper on there. Supersonic 190's also go 500, but when it arrives it's with 190 grains of .30 caliber, not 75 grains of .22.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rorge Retson View Post
Good stuff right there!!
And would Prefer it . Over a Pistol or Rifle. In a Free state . My AR or AK Pistol would be my damn near go everywhere gun. Camping ,Boating , Fishing , Trunk and H.d.
I'd like to build A AR in 10 mm
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Old 08-15-2018, 1:10 PM
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Hornady TAP makes a 75gr SBR load as well.

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ri.../75-gr-tap-sbr
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Old 08-15-2018, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by spfabrication View Post
My 10.5 300Blk with can is the same OAL as one of my 16" rifles but around 120ish db

[IMG][/IMG]
Nice, I need to add a suppressor to my 10.5''

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Old 08-15-2018, 5:17 PM
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Nice, I need to add a suppressor to my 10.5''

Nice FSP cut!
Do it tonight and in 8-10 months you'll be sitting pretty.
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Old 08-15-2018, 5:27 PM
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Nice FSP cut!
Do it tonight and in 8-10 months you'll be sitting pretty.

Thanks, I know I need to buy now. gun pro deals has the YHM TURBO for $291 right now too.
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Old 08-15-2018, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Perhaps?

https://danieldefense.com/daniel-def...-mil-spec.html

The Daniel Defense MK18 features the railed forend Daniel Defense currently provides to USSOCOM and a 10.3” Cold Hammer Forged Barrel.
Parsing that..

(1) The Daniel Defense MK18 features the railed forend Daniel Defense currently provides to USSOCOM
--and--
(2) a 10.3” Cold Hammer Forged Barrel

This does not say that the barrel is provided to USSOCOM, only the railed forend. It is possible that they also sell the barrel to them, but the posted sentence does not say that.
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by unusedusername View Post
Parsing that..

(1) The Daniel Defense MK18 features the railed forend Daniel Defense currently provides to USSOCOM
--and--
(2) a 10.3” Cold Hammer Forged Barrel

This does not say that the barrel is provided to USSOCOM, only the railed forend. It is possible that they also sell the barrel to them, but the posted sentence does not say that.
Who cares? The point is the military is using 10.3 inch barrels in 5.56.
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:57 PM
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Thanks, I know I need to buy now. gun pro deals has the YHM TURBO for $291 right now too.
Wow, looks like a nice price. Know of any 7.62 bargains?
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Old 08-15-2018, 8:19 PM
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Wow, looks like a nice price. Know of any 7.62 bargains?

Haven't seen any awesome prices on a 7.62 can, I wouldn't mind finding one as I do like the idea of a can I can use on my AK and AR SBR's
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