Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Discussions of Faith
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-18-2018, 6:44 AM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 94
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Does truth exist?

Does the current climate in the United States, lead our youth to atheism? What makes Christianity true? The youth today ask hard questions, and I feel we need to be prepared to give answers. They may be hard questions, but they are good questions. Does having faith in your Bible make it true? If so then the Koran is true also, because Islam has faith in it, right? And contemporary belief, there is no real truth. Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men. How do we answer these questions?

I really hope this becomes a good discussion. I will state I am Christian. I disagree with Islam, for reasons. Now for the sake of friendly discussion, if you have a practice, or religion you don't agree with, then I ask you give evidence for that disagreement. I have Christian friends that tell me they hate Islam. I ask why, and their answer normally is because don't believe in it. Again why? I just don't. Then why Christianity and not Islam? They remain silent, have no answer. I'm not looking for debate between, Islam and Christianity, or Methodist and Catholic or JW. I'm looking for the defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-18-2018, 7:29 AM
Fastattack's Avatar
Fastattack Fastattack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Central Arizona (formerly So Cal)
Posts: 1,503
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

In short - faith is belief without definitive proof, that is why it is called faith.
It isn't limited to religion. Black holes, global warming, gender vs biology, on and on. It all requires faith.

We can't explain so much in the bible, there are arguments on both sides, such as creation. My faith tells me that one day it will all make sense.

Regarding the young people- they will figure it out given a balanced approach (and I don't say that lightly given modern media), but they desperately need good role models.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-18-2018, 7:31 AM
Sir Toast's Avatar
Sir Toast Sir Toast is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,998
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-18-2018, 7:35 AM
Fastattack's Avatar
Fastattack Fastattack is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Central Arizona (formerly So Cal)
Posts: 1,503
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Toast View Post
Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
And something tells me they by and large don't have much of a choice about it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-18-2018, 9:03 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,573
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Toast View Post
Studies show that there are fewer and fewer religious people throughout the world with one exception: Islam. Islam continues to spread.
By birth. Christianity is growing faster by conversion. The reason Christianity is ineffectual at converting people in this country is because Christians conform to this culture rather than being Christians.
__________________
Psalm 103
Mojave Lever Crew
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:51 AM
2761377's Avatar
2761377 2761377 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the V ring
Posts: 1,892
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default Then why Christianity and not Islam?

OP, your post has several questions in it. of them, I think this is most easily answered.

basically, Timeline and Logic.

Hundreds of years before Jesus of Nazareth there were Scriptural prophecies predicting the Messiah. which Jesus fulfilled, showing Him to be the Christ and the bearer of a new Covenant. as a Christian, you believe this.

within 350 years this modification of Judaism had become the official state religion of the known world, saving millions of souls from the clutches of Satan. certainly, Satan worked against the success of Christianity from the beginning, afraid of just that result.

So the Great Trickster, the Master of Deceit convinces Mohammed to become his prophet, spreading Satan's false word.

to summarize-

Mohammed was a false prophet.

Allah is Satan.

Islam is his response to the Life giving Covenant brought by Jesus Christ.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-21-2018, 5:40 AM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 94
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I believe we have to have faith in the things we're not sure of, but trust because it's biblical. But i also feel Christianity has a great foundation to stand on. Such as the prophecies telling us so much about the coming Messiah. But faith alone doesn't cut it when defending your beliefs, and faith alone is not all we have.

If faith makes the Bible true, then the same test can be applied to the Quran. Faith is not always blind. If the dodgers came to town to play your high school baseball team, you would have faith in the dodgers winning. And that faith would be based on knowledge and not purely blind faith.

Notice the difference between Christ, and Mohamad. Every major spiritual event with Mohamed was in a cave alone, or somewhere with no witnesses. Jesus had witnesses. Birth, life, transformation, death on the cross, empty tomb.
Even Roman records record the death of Jesus. The records of many non believers verified the events. Josephus, the Jewish historian of the day, was not Christian but wrote about it. We don't have 1 person telling a story, we have lots of people telling their part. We have fulfilled prophecy, not only fulfilled, but down to the minor details.

I talked to a Jewish man once. Real, real nice person. I asked him about Christianity. He said he knows a lot about it, but they don't read the new testament. I said, yea I know. I then took him on a small trip through the old testament. I told him, there is nothing in the new, that wasn't in the old. The old testament is the new testament concealed, and the new testament is the old testament revealed. He was suprised, because he never related the prophecies to the life of Jesus. We have archeology confirming the Bible. The current state of Israel becoming a nation in a day, was prophecy fulfilled. We have much more than just our faith, we have good reason for our faith.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-21-2018, 5:47 AM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 94
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I guess what i was looking for here, was arguments for Christianity to a non believer. Are youth say, there is no real truth. Really? So if I don't believe in gravity, do I float away? There is truth, and truth stands whether you believe it or not. But, a God you never saw? Do you see gravity, or the evidence of gravity. But science says this, no science says nothing, scientist say that, they interpret what they see.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-21-2018, 3:11 PM
WASR10's Avatar
WASR10 WASR10 is offline
Just Me
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,455
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kteas1 View Post
Does the current climate in the United States, lead our youth to atheism?
Yes. Entertainment is the central focus of most people, especially the youth. Smart phones, tv, laptops, etc are all geared toward diversion in a way that keeps people’s attention; diverts them from the reality they live. So much so that art that once imitated life, has become lives that solely imitate the art. And rarely, very rarely, does the content deal with spiritual matters.

Quote:
What makes Christianity true?
The search for truth must begin with an honest desire for actual truth. Many people search to confirm their pre-established ideals, or to feed a certain desire or need. Truth only comes to those who actually seek it. You must want truth, even if it is hard to accept. Christianity is true because it holds up to every criticism, every doubt, and every argument. In the end, it still requires an acceptance of the unknown, but it would be useless otherwise.

Quote:
The youth today ask hard questions, and I feel we need to be prepared to give answers. They may be hard questions, but they are good questions. Does having faith in your Bible make it true?
No, having faith in the Bible does not make it true.

Quote:
If so then the Koran is true also, because Islam has faith in it, right? And contemporary belief, there is no real truth.
Belief because it is contemporary does not make something true. Truth is not relative. Something is, or it is not. That is self-evident, despite peoples wishes to the contrary.

Quote:
Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men. How do we answer these questions?
The Bible IS (or at least half) many stories written by men (some old, some not). However, these stories amazingly all connect in a way the authors could have never imagined. They all agree in ways the authors never had dreamed of. It is written by so many different people, all about the same thing, from places far and wide, and all connect in a way that is impossible without some kind of outside influence. It is a miracle that it exists at all, much less preserved almost perfectly to this day.


Quote:
I really hope this becomes a good discussion. I will state I am Christian. I disagree with Islam, for reasons. Now for the sake of friendly discussion, if you have a practice, or religion you don't agree with, then I ask you give evidence for that disagreement.
I disagree with any religion that does not adhere to the teachings of the New Testament. I am not saying that no one has the right to these practices. I am not saying that I hate any of these people. However, I believe there is one truth and anything that deviates from that truth is incorrect. Worse is that those incorrect practices attract people and lead them astray. The evidence for these disagreements is vast, and would have to be addressed case by case. However, my source for truth will be the Bible, if that is helpful in understanding my opposition.

Quote:
I have Christian friends that tell me they hate Islam. I ask why, and their answer normally is because don't believe in it. Again why? I just don't. Then why Christianity and not Islam? They remain silent, have no answer. I'm not looking for debate between, Islam and Christianity, or Methodist and Catholic or JW. I'm looking for the defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist.
Islam teaches a different religion than that of the Bible. A person who believes in one cannot then, logically, believe in the other. It is really that simple. For a defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist, there is no answer. A person who does not believe the Bible is the word of God will not be convinced by evidence that is from the Bible itself. A person might see the significance of the Bible, but may not be convinced that it is from God. An atheist does not believe that God exists, so the word will not convince them. The best you can do is explain why you believe, and leave it at that. Are you able to articulate why you believe?
__________________
Mark 16:16

Last edited by WASR10; 02-21-2018 at 3:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-21-2018, 3:30 PM
theLBC's Avatar
theLBC theLBC is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: the lbc
Posts: 4,566
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

god is as real as love.

you cannot see love. you can't touch it or smell it.
but it does exist.

proof that it's real is given with each act of love, just as proof that god exists is given with every act of faith.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-24-2018, 9:22 PM
colossians323's Avatar
colossians323 colossians323 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NV, ID, OR, CA soon to add TN
Posts: 19,966
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

to the OP
Absolutely truth exists, and His truths are absolute
__________________
LIVE FREE OR DIE!

M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-25-2018, 7:59 AM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 94
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Just for the record. Some great comments here. I believe Christianity is the only truth. The more I questioned, the more its truth became self evident.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-25-2018, 5:09 PM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,719
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Go to the first chapter of the gosple of John, read all the way to the verse that reads " and we beheld His glory, full of Grace AND Truth." Grace is A person, and Truth is A person, Jesus the Christ. Where Jesus is preached, explained, set forth etc, TRUTH is brought directly to men and women. If it pleases you to reject this, help yourself, at the risk of walking away from the truth many seek for. Peace Bros

Psalm 1
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2018, 2:22 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,234
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

If you want to understand religion and different religious views, talk to people of other religions. A lot. Talking to other people of your same culture and same religion will only get you so far.

I've experienced the hospitality of devout Muslims who were the kindest people you'll ever know. I met an elderly Christian man who lived on the Mount of Olives who refused to attend church because all the churches he went to (and that's a lot in Jerusalem) failed to practice service to others, which he felt was the core message of Jesus. I chatted at length with Jesuit seminarians who have to get their Bachelor's degree in Philosophy before the church would even let them begin studying the Bible (they needed to learn how to think before being given the words of God, as they explained it). I once chatted with a Roman Catholic monk who studied at Buddhist monasteries to learn their meditation practices and welcomed Buddhist monks into his monastery for the same reasons. I have a lot of respect for Rabbis who, in my experience, are very pragmatic in their advice. And whenever I'm out hunting, I feel that there is more truth in the religion of many Native Americans than most European Americans will ever know.

If you're looking for truths, in the general sense, then religion is a good path to find them. You'll pick up many truths along the way, no matter what path you choose. But if you want to find ONE single set of truths which are universally applicable, then I think you're overreaching what we can understand or even what religion can truly provide. Borrowing from Genesis, the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is evil (my religion vs your religion, for example) is not for us to eat or even taste. On the contrary, spitting out the fruit of that tree is the first step to accepting our place on this earth.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-26-2018, 4:00 PM
bountyhunter bountyhunter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,423
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-02-2018, 8:02 PM
kteas1 kteas1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 94
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.
I agree. I do believe the Bible to be the ultimate truth. A lot of prophecy proves this. Faith? Yes you have to accept the living God with faith. God is like gravity. I can't see gravity, but I see the effects of gravity, so I have faith in gravity existing. I believe gravity is true, as God is true. Jesus fulfilled to many prophecies, he had to be the messiah. As far as wars over it? Yes, religulous disagreements have led to wars, but for me? The Bible says share with non believes, not kill them. I slam the door on nobody, JW, Mormon, Islam. I'll talk, debate, discuss, but I refuse to argue, get angry, or hate. I want then to walk away either changed, or at least thinking, I didn't agree with him, but he did treat me nice.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-12-2018, 4:44 PM
Burble74 Burble74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 101
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

A lot of the Christian responses are correct.

Jesus, who has been proven over and over again to have truly lived, has by His very life fulfilled over 800 or so prophecies concerning the coming , life and death and resurrection of the Messiah.

Is life even caused dissent among the Pharisees and sadducees. There is irrefutable evidence of his life and death and resurrection in historical records of His time.

The root meaning of Faith means allowing oneself to be moved by evidence. And As Christians we have the history and the tradition that led to the compilation of our scripture and the world community of Christianity today.

Only ONE MAN EVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND PROVED IT IN HIS RESURRECTION, AND IT WAS JESUS CHRIST. The Romans centurions knew that Christ was a big deal and couldn’t afford to let anyone steal His body yet it was nowhere to be found. Men’s testaments were more valuable that women’s, yet it was women who discovered and proclaimed the tomb empty, and people finally believed when they saw him again. Healed and glorified with his nail and spear wounds.

The Christians of old who at first denied Jesus out of fear, including St Peter, were now empowered to die martyrs because the knew the Truth that God was among us because of His infinite Love.

There’s an excellent movie that just came out about a Pulitzer Prize winning former atheist turned Christian ....darn I forgot the title....

I know for a fact that the world Church of Satan, has several agendas:
Promote Atheism
(they don’t care if you believe in the devil just as long as you don’t believe in God),
Promote new age spirituality (its better if people get caught up with spiritualism because what you don’t know CAN hurt you)
Destroy the Catholic Church and orthodoxy it’s the mother of Christian relifgions since even the 40k denominations of Christianity has its roots in the Church and through black mass, black sacraments, and human sacrifice mock the church and the life of Christ.
Destroy baptist churches, they are well known for having very strong faith
Use commercial means of abortion planned parenthood and other means as a source of mass satanic human sacrifice ( they actually do work with PP in terms of offerings - so I hear)

The globalists in this world are increasingly satanic in their beliefs and the deeep state he’ll bent on war, killing, etc. of you know anything about bohemian grove, then you know war is an important component to satanic human sacrifice.

The world powers are constantly trying to remove God and this Truth, and thus objective truths from the secular world. When that happens, moral relativism prevails and what’s true is now a matter of consensus and whatever the government or the media tells you is true or false.

We can see that the incumbent powers that be, who act increasingly luciferian, are trying to stomp out Christianity of all things...why? Because it’s True. Christianity actually doesn’t clash with science, unless false scientific evidence is pushed, or if there’s a disconnect with non religious folks misunderstanding that religion isn’t meant to teach science, but it is an account of Gods relationship to Us His people.

Look for the Truth and who is trying to destroy it and who is trying to push it, and the Truth and it’s enemies or proponents come out either way. In Christianity is the Truth.

God bless Trump for keeping God in the White House! And God Bless the First Lady Melania for having the courage to pray the Lords Prayer in a public forum as a representative of the leaders of the United States.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:12 AM
eta34's Avatar
eta34 eta34 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,396
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

^Keeping God in the White House? We Christians lose a lot of credibility when we equate republicanism with Christianity.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:03 AM
OHOD's Avatar
OHOD OHOD is offline
I need a LIFE!!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Airstrip One, Oceania, KFL
Posts: 11,047
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.
__________________
<a href=http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Joanne_Galvin/media/ingsoc_zps2beedc8a.jpg.html target=_blank><img src=http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b536/Joanne_Galvin/ingsoc_zps2beedc8a.jpg border=0 alt= /></a>

INGSOC comes to America.
Sip your Victory Gin folks, time's are a changin'

Time it was, and what a time it was, it was
A time of innocence, A time of confidences
Long ago, it must be, I have a photograph
Preserve your memories; They're all that's left you
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-13-2018, 5:31 PM
JeffC's Avatar
JeffC JeffC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 322
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Does truth exist? No! That is a true statement.
__________________
I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-13-2018, 5:33 PM
JeffC's Avatar
JeffC JeffC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 322
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHOD View Post
I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.
Christians dont have faith in teachings, they have faith works, works accomplished by another on their behalf. If Jesus did not rise from the dead His teachings are meaningless.

Either God is Holy or God is not Holy. All sin is a sin against God. A Holy God can have no fellowship with sinful man. The fundamental question you must ask yourself, is what do you with your sin? How do you propitiate the wrath of Holy God?
__________________
I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns

Last edited by JeffC; 04-13-2018 at 5:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-14-2018, 7:07 AM
Burble74 Burble74 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 101
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
^Keeping God in the White House? We Christians lose a lot of credibility when we equate republicanism with Christianity.
Not to say that republicans equal being Christian, but the country was founded upon Christian principles. For Trump to invoke Gods name and prayer, and to have bible study available to people in the White House, is unprecedented, and speaks highly in this time of human secularism and anti Christian climate.

The base principle of Christianity is love ....actually Love with a capital L as God is Love. The world would be a better place to aspire to Truth, the ideal, and that is ultimately what God does for us when He provides the Truth. Gives us something to aspire to for the good of Us, His children since He is the Father.

Secular humanism, tries to remove that truth of God, the objective Truth, and leave in its an place objective morality based on consensus.

I don’t see anything wrong with Christianity influencing the world, just the negative views people who do not understand Christianity have. If God is God, and he gave us His Son who is the Word of God made flesh (not to be confused with the lower case (w)ord of God, The Bible), then Christ teaches how we are to repent -to His way if we are to become what we are meant to be and do what we are meant to do as His children. Father knows best especially when he is Our Father.

Just my opinion, of course.

When I say that I am a Catholic, when I say that I am a Christian, when I say that I am religious, when I say that I don’t drink, when I say that I love people whom I dislike because I am required to by God, and when I say I believe in a God,
I lose credibility with people who consider themselves more educated that me, more practical or grounded in reality
...little do they realize that the Church established the scientific method, established the earliest University systems in Cambridge and Oxford perhaps gave these same people the basis of most of their scientific, or philosophical education.....
But losing credibility with people who have no concept of my Faith shouldn’t stop me from living my Faith. Christianity is a world view and it should be effective and difficult to live if we are doing it right. There’s nothing easy about being a follower of Christ, in this society, in this secular world except having peace of mind and heart because we have Faith, Hope and Love despite the difficulty, opposition, ostracization, suffering from violence and abuse, or perhaps even threat of death we face with anti-Christians anti—Christs, if you will.

Last edited by Burble74; 04-14-2018 at 7:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-22-2018, 7:28 PM
sergeantrex's Avatar
sergeantrex sergeantrex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Down the road a piece Fresno, CA.
Posts: 824
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Truth: That which comports with reality.
__________________
"Fear is the path to the dark side, fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Yoda
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-25-2018, 2:21 AM
Walles Walles is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 16
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I think that there is truth, but everyone has their own truth.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-25-2018, 2:45 AM
wpage's Avatar
wpage wpage is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,047
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Jusus in a conversation with Pontius Pilot...

"What is truth?"
__________________
God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life.
John 3:16

NRA,,, Lifer

United Air Epic Fail Video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-25-2018, 5:33 AM
1911RONIN's Avatar
1911RONIN 1911RONIN is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orange
Posts: 1,871
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHOD View Post
I am not a Christian nor Muslim, I am Buddhist. As a Buddhist we have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, more importantly is the teachings of the particular sect I am in. So yes, I do have faith. In fact, faith is one of the pillars of our belief system.

The particular sect I'm in is Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism. I don't want to get into any particulars, but we do have a university in LA for our children to practice and learn western studies such as liberal arts and the such. We have womens groups, mens groups and youth groups. So yeah, when a question comes up we have the knowledge and skill to educate.

The way I answered your question is based on faith of my religion, which is how I took it.

Interesting. I would say that most of the noble truths require no faith. To live is to suffer requires no faith. It seems nearly, but is not, self-evident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
?Seek the Lord while He may be found?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-25-2018, 5:40 AM
1911RONIN's Avatar
1911RONIN 1911RONIN is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orange
Posts: 1,871
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.


Blue things are colored things - true, but not empirical claim. It is true A Priori.

Faith rests on one believing that a certain claim is true (e.g., Jesus is God).

One can believe that their religious views are absolutely true, but not engage in hostile acts with other faiths.

Conflict as a result of what one believes to be true is not logically entailed by it being so. Thus, the potential for conflict is a non-sequitur.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
?Seek the Lord while He may be found?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-25-2018, 6:23 AM
libertyordeath's Avatar
libertyordeath libertyordeath is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,534
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

I don't know if this will help you, but when I get a chance to speak to a young person actually any person, we as people like to have physical proof for even doubting Thomas said he would not believe until he seen Christ himself.

So I show them things of this world the technology even reference movies about end time prophesy and then show them the bible how it spoke of these things way before they exisisted and that really gets them thinking.

I don't attack their way of living but but show them how I walked in sin and God changed me our story our testimony is the best thing we can share for we are that physical proof.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-27-2018, 6:53 AM
an actual gun's Avatar
an actual gun an actual gun is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,423
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

If anyone says, "Truth does not exist" then simply ask them, "How do you know that is true?" That should shut them up.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying and I'm also concerned about Islam, and about our world's increasingly post-modern worldviews, especially when it comes to truth, and especially truths about morality.

How do we combat this overdose on post-modern woo? Well I have two approaches I can add. One is that we familiarize people with the origin story. That is to say, we should attack the problem at its source.

The idea that truth is not real is a very dangerous idea and it came to our country first probably through cultural Marxism of the Frankfort School, via the English department at Yale when they came over from Germany. There are some other sources but that might've been the beginning. Modernist and post-modernist worldviews are all problematic in this regard. Hard stances on materialism lead to radical empiricism and misunderstandings of what faith and reason are and how they work.

When people trace the lineage of these ideas back to cultural Marxism, structuralism, post-structuralism, critical theory, the radical application of the Hegellian dialectic, et al., if they're an even remotely decent person with any proclivity for thought, at least a few of them are going to see this stuff for what it is. They're probably going to feel revolted and betrayed. I know I did when I began to reevaluate these things in my life. But I'm not suggesting we should rely on emotional response but to familiarize them with the arguments against these schools of thought. I don't think it should be especially difficult, I think people are just woefully ignorant on these subjects and don't understand how they've been influenced by these ideas whether they recognize the names of them or not.

The other way we deal with this is to focus on the value of objectivity and especially the subject of morality.

The attack has been on objectivity generally, but especially objective truth, and of these truths there is perhaps no more important a truth when it comes to the well-being of a society than that of objective morality. For me, I used to be an atheist and I was dissatisfied with the religious idea of objective morality and wished rather to pursue objective morality without God. Most people, though, do not seem to be interested in objective morality, they are willing to settle for a subjective morality. I may have relented a few times over the years on the question but for the most part I argued that morality was objective and had to be. However I could find no universal morality without God.

This is the distinction that led me back and I'm happy to say that this year I was finally baptized and was also confirmed Catholic. A militant anti-religious atheist can reason their way to God a lot easier if they believe in the necessity of objectivity. Chances are people like this claim to care about objectivity when it comes to observation of the natural world and consider themselves champions of science and human progress, but their care for objectivity stops at morality and truth-- radical empiricism ensues: we can only believe everything two people can see and count, and send off to a third person to verify. Only that is Truth™ and everything else is subjective, cultural, societal, structural, a matter of perspective.

Now of course for some remnant, they don't even see just everything else as subjective but everything as subjective. Or maybe they're really crazy and they don't even believe in things. Maybe they're solipsistic. But these are all completely facile and puerile arguments and ideas that can be defeated pretty easily and for that I'd refer you back to the first sentence I wrote at the beginning of this post.

Anyways, thanks for your post and the opportunity to think about what you've written and to respond. God bless.

Last edited by an actual gun; 07-27-2018 at 6:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:25 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,234
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Objective vs subjective... Does it really matter? How about we simply consider the consequences of our actions? This is one of those areas where philosophy gets too lost in the clouds. Gotta stay grounded!

Maybe morality is relative. Maybe there's no objective truth behind the idea of adultery. Seems that's how our ancestors lived -- free love in the stone age! But try sleeping around on your wife and see what happens. Sh** get's real pretty fast. Practically speaking, it's pretty clear cut what kind of behaviors will get you in the dog house & cause you to lose half your net worth. Relative, schmelative. Follow the tradition or deal with the consequences.

Maybe some truths are absolute. Maybe Jesus really was the divine and only Son of God. But he was quite the confusing character -- preaching love and peace one day and treason the next. Even on the cross, he doubted his own mission, asking God "Why have you forsaken me?" If he didn't know for sure, how can I? Frankly, he didn't even fit the role of a Jewish Messiah very well -- King Darius of Persia did a better job at that and he wasn't even Jewish. So much of Christianity has nothing to do with the real Jesus anyway. And as crazy as other religions sound to us, Christianity sounds batsh** crazy to people who believe differently. As an animist, Christianity is problematic on so many levels it's hard to even start talking about. But, seriously, it doesn't really matter what the objective truth of the divine is. What matters is the behaviors, ethics and lifestyle you espouse as a result of those beliefs. In that way, most atheists, saints, agnostics, protestants, catholics, muslims, jews, buddhists, animists, "wtf-ists" and all even politicians have the same basic core beliefs (okay, maybe not the politicians). In other words, some things might be objective but simply don't matter to most people (like the god they worship). Other things are objective and clearly matter and you'd be an idiot to think otherwise (does anybody really question if a gun is lethal in an objective sense)?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-15-2018, 4:30 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,573
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Well actually they picked another Apostle. And the other other squash of all this nonsense is 70 AD. Those people saw the Jewish Age Destroyed and the ushering in of the Covenant.
__________________
Psalm 103
Mojave Lever Crew
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-15-2018, 4:39 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 3,328
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Well actually they picked another Apostle. And the other other squash of all this nonsense is 70 AD. Those people saw the Jewish Age Destroyed and the ushering in of the Covenant.
If you look at it one way, Paul was the "12th" Apostle. Jesus picked 11 of the 12, the Disciples picked Judas. Then they cast lots to replace Judas. However, God picked Paul when he was on the road. Just a thought.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-15-2018, 5:46 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,573
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

That's how I read it.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-15-2018, 9:58 AM
sonofeugene's Avatar
sonofeugene sonofeugene is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kteas1 View Post
Does the current climate in the United States, lead our youth to atheism? What makes Christianity true? The youth today ask hard questions, and I feel we need to be prepared to give answers. They may be hard questions, but they are good questions. Does having faith in your Bible make it true? If so then the Koran is true also, because Islam has faith in it, right? And contemporary belief, there is no real truth. Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men. How do we answer these questions?

I really hope this becomes a good discussion. I will state I am Christian. I disagree with Islam, for reasons. Now for the sake of friendly discussion, if you have a practice, or religion you don't agree with, then I ask you give evidence for that disagreement. I have Christian friends that tell me they hate Islam. I ask why, and their answer normally is because don't believe in it. Again why? I just don't. Then why Christianity and not Islam? They remain silent, have no answer. I'm not looking for debate between, Islam and Christianity, or Methodist and Catholic or JW. I'm looking for the defense of the Bible in the face of an atheist.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
You make the assumption that Christianity is "true". And you hint at the reality of all religions when you say " Or the Bible is just a lot of stories written by a lot of old men." All religions are made by man. It is simply man's attempt to explain the unexplainable. If you want to believe one way or the other, that's fine. But don't make the mistake of thinking you're right and everyone else is wrong.

That said, there are various "universal truths" for lack of a better term. These are things that fundamental to being a "good" human being. And no one religion has a monopoly on these. If religions would stick to just those basics, then there would be no problems between religions. But instead, every religion on earth makes **** up and weaves weird perverted ideas and concepts into their "faith". Strip away all that and any two major religions really aren't all that different.

As for atheism, there's nothing wrong with it at all. One can be a good, strongly moral person and still be an atheist. All atheism is is the belief that deities don't exist. And if you think about it, that belief is just as unfounded as those who believe deities do exist. There's no proof on either side.

I, for one, reject the notion of deities, at least as organized religion describes them. I also don't reject the idea that something/someone may exist to explain all this. I simply don't know. And all the bible thumping, koran thumping, anything thumping in the world will never change that.

I do know that what we have on earth is simply astonishing and we can't even begin to comprehend the universe. I will be in awe of it all to the moment I die. If "me" somehow continues on after my body dies, then I may find out some more things. Or not. But it's not a big deal to me.

Oh, and to your original question, "Does Truth Exist"? I think yes. But they are simple truths and no one religion or way of thinking has a monopoly on them.
__________________
Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore

A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore

Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur

Last edited by sonofeugene; 08-15-2018 at 10:05 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:15 AM
colossians323's Avatar
colossians323 colossians323 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NV, ID, OR, CA soon to add TN
Posts: 19,966
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Well actually they picked another Apostle. And the other other squash of all this nonsense is 70 AD. Those people saw the Jewish Age Destroyed and the ushering in of the Covenant.
LOL love when people pick stuff up that they read on the internet and pretend because they found it on the internet it is true
__________________
LIVE FREE OR DIE!

M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:52 AM
tsmithson tsmithson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

First, the gospel definition of TRUTH is- the knowledge of things as they were, as they are, and as they will be.

Faith in Christ is replaced by knowledge when humble followers obey the principals of his gospel. Faith precedes the miracle. Faith is temporary and exercised to gain the knowledge for yourself.

I started with faith in Christ until I saw him, now I have faith no longer. I know that Jesus Christ lives. This is true of all things spiritual. I KNOW Satan exists from experiences of him showing up.

Throughout my life I exercised faith until l received a knowledge. This knowledge came from spiritual power given to those who exercise faith unto obedience and God gives power to the obedient to do and see ALL THINGS.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:12 AM
sonofeugene's Avatar
sonofeugene sonofeugene is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
The tenet of the OP has a fundamental logical fallacy in it. You mix the concept of truth and faith. Truth invariably rests on something that can be proven or supported empirically and faith (and the bible) are accepted only on faith. Mixing the two never does anything good and often leads to wars as we see in the world around us. Everybody believes their version of faith is "truth" and everybody else is wrong.
Now that is a truth!

It always boggle my mind when people claim to know the "truth" and that their religion is correct and all other beliefs are false or untrue and then quote the bible or some other man made creation to back themselves up. The bible and all other religious tenets are the creations of man and are therefore simply someone's opinion on a subject. Nothing more. They make good stories and for a huge portion of the world's population, providing "answers" were none really exist. It makes it easy to simply accept what others say is the truth. Rarely does anyone take the time to try and the answers themselves. It's too scary for most, if they do take that path, as they find that no one really knows. And not knowing terrifies most people.
__________________
Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore

A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore

Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:05 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,573
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
Now that is a truth!

It always boggle my mind when people claim to know the "truth" and that their religion is correct and all other beliefs are false or untrue and then quote the bible or some other man made creation to back themselves up. The bible and all other religious tenets are the creations of man and are therefore simply someone's opinion on a subject. Nothing more. They make good stories and for a huge portion of the world's population, providing "answers" were none really exist. It makes it easy to simply accept what others say is the truth. Rarely does anyone take the time to try and the answers themselves. It's too scary for most, if they do take that path, as they find that no one really knows. And not knowing terrifies most people.
No. Actually, the idea of something from nothing (Ex-Nihilo) is impossbile. Therefore it takes more faith to believe that than it does to believe the people who saw the ressurected Christ. Many of whom died for proclaiming His Ressurection. That pesky Eye Witness Testimony. All Christians ask themselves about their faith. Project much? Every now and then the guy who is going to bring Christianity to it's kness comes in here with the same baloney and can't understand why we're still here.
__________________
Psalm 103
Mojave Lever Crew
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:33 PM
sonofeugene's Avatar
sonofeugene sonofeugene is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
No. Actually, the idea of something from nothing (Ex-Nihilo) is impossbile. Therefore it takes more faith to believe that than it does to believe the people who saw the ressurected Christ. Many of whom died for proclaiming His Ressurection. That pesky Eye Witness Testimony. All Christians ask themselves about their faith. Project much? Every now and then the guy who is going to bring Christianity to it's kness comes in here with the same baloney and can't understand why we're still here.
Eye witness testimony? Eye witness testimony is the least reliable of the "proofs". And as superstitious as people are now, they were far more superstitious and gullible back 2000 years ago. Did Jesus exist? Sure. Was he a prophet of his time? Doubtful. He was simply an outspoken member of a sect of radical jews. Did he actually die on the cross? Maybe, maybe not. Did he actually rise from the dead after dying? I say no. Not possible. He was a man. Men don't actually die and then come back. Neither do women, animals, insects, microbes, etc.

In the years after he died, there rose up a group of his followers who proselytized and spread his teachings. In a quirk of history, it caught on and spread to what christianity is today. However, just because a bunch of people say things are so, doesn't make them true.

It seems Jesus was a good man in his time. If he were to come back today (and he can't), he'd be astonished to see all the hoo-ha that's been built up around him. Truly astonished.
__________________
Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore

A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore

Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur

Last edited by sonofeugene; 08-15-2018 at 12:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:43 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,573
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
Eye witness testimony? Eye witness testimony is the least reliable of the "proofs". And as superstitious as people are now, they were far more superstitious and gullible back 2000 years ago. Did Jesus exist? Sure. Was he a prophet of his time? Doubtful. He was simply an outspoken member of a sect of radical jews. Did he actually die on the cross? Maybe, maybe not. Did he actually rise from the dead after dying? I say no. Not possible. He was a man. Men don't actually die and then come back. Neither do women, animals, insects, microbes, etc.

In the years after he died, there rose up a group of his followers who proselytized and spread his teachings. In a quirk of history, it caught on and spread to what christianity is today. However, just because a bunch of people say things are so, doesn't make them true.

It seems Jesus was a good man in his time. If he were to come back today (and he can't), he'd be astonished to see all the hoo-ha that's been built up around him. Truly astonished.
You have heard that "eye witness testimony" is admissible in any court of law have you not? If it is so bad than why is it admissible? I'm sorry but that is a cop out.

Yes you are correct. Men do not come back from the dead. So, when one does raise people from the dead, and actually comes back from the dead and says He is God. You should believe him. If he said he was going to raise himself from the dead and then didn't... Yep just one more kook. But, He did. I will take the eye witness testimony over your opinion. Which I can only take as hoo-ha.
__________________
Psalm 103
Mojave Lever Crew
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:18 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy