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  #1  
Old 08-13-2018, 8:35 PM
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Default Reloads?

Ok, I sat down tonight to load up some shells, I loaded 100.
For 98 of them I get this...



For the other 2, I get this...



I'm using a MEC9000. What would cause this?
Based on the 98, I'd say the machine is fairly well adjusted. What could have happened on these 2?
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2018, 9:57 PM
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Sometimes my precrimper won’t fold the pleats correctly and if I don’t catch it before the crimper it will turn out ugly and I’ll unload that reload because I fear a wrongly folded crimp will increase psi. Some of them look like yours or worse.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:23 PM
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Uneven and/or split case mouths to start.

The one on the left has seen a lot more abuse than the 98 and the one on the right looks to have had a split. Garbage in = garbage out.

I try to pull those out and make sure they don't make it back into my bag after firing (if they made it to the loader in the first place). They'll shoot fine.

I like to roll the petals between my fingers before putting the hull in my machine. You'll often find splits this way as it "clicks".
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:25 PM
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Default ><

Keep an eye on the Wad Finger, some time it will pinch and the wad coming down will deform the hull. Easy to spot when it reaches the pre crimp station.

Or the pre crimp is binding and not rotating to fit the groves on the hull.

In all they will shoot just fine.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:16 AM
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it happens -- case mouth was deformed enough that the precrimp didn't align right.

I'll mark it with a sharpie so that it doesn't go back into my empties the next time I shoot it.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:22 AM
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But those two will shoot every bit as the other 98 I personally would not worry about it.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:34 AM
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Yeah - it happens. I get a few of those occasionally. While, as others have said, it happens with poor condition hulls (at the crimp area), it can happen with decent condition hulls as well. I am nearly certain it’s the result of the pre-crimp and the existing folds in the hull not aligning properly - so the new crimp is trying to fold the hull one way, but the existing folds have other ideas. I have seen apparently perfectly fine hulls go into the precrimp, only to have hulls like your two come out in the end.

Life’s too short to fret about it. Mark the base so you can toss them after you shoot them.
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
I used to reload until the hulls utterly failed. I got some pretty ugly crimps and shot them anyway. Never had any problems. The guys that reloaded .410 in my club did the same thing only worse. No issues. Its like ugly fruit and veg - not pretty but tastes the same.
We did the same thing with 28 ga. I shot those out of a O/U lasted a lot longer I think instead of a semi-auto or pump.
Did pay attention to the hulls that had the fiber base & not a molded base I'm guessing the newer hulls may not have this problem. Old Federal 20 come to mind.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:31 AM
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That problem is caused by the Precrimper not rotating into proper index as the hull is pushed into it. The Precrimper floats so that it can rotate a small amount to properly index into the hulls established crimp.

When this happens it is because the Precrimpe'rs little fingers are exactly 30 Degrees out of kilter. IN other words they are exactly aligned with the high points of the crimp instead of the areas between the high points.

This happened to me with .410's alot (1/10) until I figured it out. There isn't enough mass in a .410's crimp to self rotate the Precrimper if it is near 30 degrees out of position. Now I align the hull with the Precrimper when it changes stations using the ribs on the outside of the Precrimper for reference. A 12 ga. hull should have enough mass to rotate the Precrimper into index and I seldom see this problem on my 12 ga. hulls.

Your Precrimper may be a little sticky in it's rotation. May need to be cleaned or maybe a small amount of lube on the pivot point.

That should fix the problem.

Hope this helps.

Randy
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:35 AM
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If you lube, use graphite only.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-2018, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
The one on the left has seen a lot more abuse than the 98 and the one on the right looks to have had a split. Garbage in = garbage out.
Enlarged the original photo, did not see any sign of a split.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeeder View Post
Or the pre crimp is binding and not rotating to fit the groves on the hull.

In all they will shoot just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle View Post
it happens -- case mouth was deformed enough that the precrimp didn't align right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohn View Post
I am nearly certain it’s the result of the pre-crimp and the existing folds in the hull not aligning properly - so the new crimp is trying to fold the hull one way, but the existing folds have other ideas
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
That problem is caused by the Precrimper not rotating into proper index as the hull is pushed into it. The Precrimper floats so that it can rotate a small amount to properly index into the hulls established crimp.
Consensus seems to be the precrimper not rotating properly on the hull.
This was my initial thought, but wanted to see if I missed something.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Enlarged the original photo, did not see any sign of a split.
You might have to shoot it, so that the crimp unfolds to see if there is a split.

I'm curious to see the outcome. I've never tried to really figure out the cause. I usually use a sharpie and right BAD or CRIMP on the side of the hull (and shoot it). The next time I reload, I'll see the marking and check to see if the hull should be trashed.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
I'm curious to see the outcome. I've never tried to really figure out the cause. I usually use a sharpie and right BAD or CRIMP on the side of the hull (and shoot it). The next time I reload, I'll see the marking and check to see if the hull should be trashed.
I marked the bases with a Dykem pen, I'll see what they look like they're fired and let you know.
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Old 08-14-2018, 6:54 PM
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I’m curious will those two shells cause a miss or a problem? Did you check the case before you shot it?
I would shoot those two until they split then toss them.
IMHO it’s a visual thing not worth worrying or being concerned with. Reloading isn’t rocket science I doubt you will ever get 100 for 100 perfect visually perfect rounds. Keep it simple and have fun.
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-ADC View Post
I’m curious will those two shells cause a miss or a problem? Did you check the case before you shot it?
I would shoot those two until they split then toss them.
IMHO it’s a visual thing not worth worrying or being concerned with. Reloading isn’t rocket science I doubt you will ever get 100 for 100 perfect visually perfect rounds. Keep it simple and have fun.
I bought 1000 once fired hulls and have since picked up a couple hundred of what looks like once fired as well. All hulls looked clean and to be in good shape.
When I got the machine setup it looked to be setup for a different hull/load. The precrimp was lite and the final crimp was not quite deep enough. I've been slowly tweaking it to where it is now. For the most part the finished shells look real good. The two pictured are the only ones so far with an ugly crimp. I'm not worried about firing them, was just wondering what the possible causes may be.
Not sure yet if I'll be able to get out this weekend to shoot them, but the following weekend for sure. I'll let you know how it goes, and I'll take a picture of these hulls after firing.
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Old 08-14-2018, 7:33 PM
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Agreed, precrimp station is running amok. In my experience, they will never crimp correctly again, so mark a big 'X' on the base and toss em before loading again.
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Old 08-15-2018, 5:40 AM
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Back when I reloaded it was mainly Winchester AA every once and a while I'd get a good buy on a case of Remington but I usually gave those away.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-ADC View Post
Reloading isn’t rocket science I doubt you will ever get 100 for 100 perfect visually perfect rounds. Keep it simple and have fun.
Tom; If I pay attention I can get 100/100 easily in either 12's or .410's

I never see this problem on my 12 ga loaders. I have to pay attention on the
.410's and align the crimp folds with the ribs on the outside of the pre crimper or else i get bit.

My 410 hulls are all once fired Win AA's

My 12 ga hulls are all old style Win AA's which have been loaded 6-8 times each.

Randy
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Old 08-16-2018, 7:44 AM
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Let us know if you can tell any difference when you shoot them, I couldn't.
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Old 08-16-2018, 9:06 AM
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There isn't going to be any difference.

That shot leaving at 1100 fps is not going to know the difference if a crimp is perfect or not.

They just don't look right, shoot them anyway and you could shoot them at the Grand Nationals and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Something that some of you might have noticed along the way,

"Sometimes things don't go exactly like we wanted them to."

Perfection is unobtainable.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try for it every day.

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Old 08-16-2018, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
I used to reload until the hulls utterly failed. I got some pretty ugly crimps and shot them anyway. Never had any problems. The guys that reloaded .410 in my club did the same thing only worse. No issues. Its like ugly fruit and veg - not pretty but tastes the same.
Ya...I've seen some really ugly crimps on the 410 guys. But the hulls are more expensive, so many try to get the last round out of 'em. Ballistically, the 410 relies more on the crimp. In 12g there's enough shot to hold back the inertia to get a good powder burn.

It could be the spindex hanging up, but IME a whonky case mouth to start is what gives the spindex problems, at least on 12 and 20g.

I've even seen whonky crimps on factory shells. It's not gonna get less whonky by being reloaded.

The one on the left definitely has more "experience".
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Old 08-26-2018, 8:44 AM
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As suspected and confirmed here, the shells worked just as well as the ones with the good crimps. Close inspection of the hulls after firing shows no sign of any cracking.



They really don't look to bad, but they are in the trash now...
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:56 PM
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BPI sells a tool that looks like a tapered plug that turns in a drill motor or press and reconditions the mouth of those hulls. It basically heats up the plastic and irons out the bad crimp folds.

The next time they are loaded they crimp just like they should.

Randy
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2018, 10:08 AM
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I have limited shot shell reloading experience.

Dad taught me to 1/2 crimp on the 1st pull and then a full press for the second.
This helps the petals get aligned with the factory pattern.

Also he would only reload AA hulls
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Old 08-29-2018, 9:08 PM
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If you are loading on a MEC, check out the punch from vpcreatibe reloading. I picked one up last month and it works awesome. No, I am not affiliated with them, I am just really happy with the new punch I bought as it opens up the hull to allow the wad to go in really easy.

http://creativereloadingsolutions.com/
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