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  #1  
Old 02-23-2018, 2:39 PM
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Default 8mm German - who made it? Is it good?

A close friend recently left me about 320 rounds of 7.92 JS (8mm German) and I am flummoxed as to who made it and where it came from. I suspect it may be Iranian, but not sure.

The brass is old, some still shiny, others have lost their luster, still others have that weird green metallic splotches of oxidized brass on them. The bullets are steel jacketed.

The headstamp has three characters I can't identify, but here goes: the top of the headstamp has the three characters: what looks to be a droopy armed "T", then a crescent with a small star between the horns, then a "C". Going counter-clockwise from there (from the left side of the op "T", it reads: <slash> 7.9 <slash> FS <slash> 19XX ,slash> back to the top three. The 19xx is because the years vary between 1935 and 1942.

A further clue is that 140 of these came in bandoliers, two with 70 rounds each. They're pretty crudely done in cotton fabric with flat pressed-steel buttons and are a medium blue/grey in color.

I know, I know, worthless without pictures, but what can I do? I'm itching to go to the range with a couple 98s, but I'm not going to move until I learn more about this ammo.

Is it good?

(I'm also posting this in the Ammo and Reloading forum)
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Old 02-23-2018, 2:44 PM
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I'm guessing it's Turkish. If so, it's very hot, fine for bolt action mausers but too hot (and not recommended) for semi autos

Pic of it I found on the web, is this it?





Turkish ammo came on clips in bandoleers like this:

7 pockets, each with 2 clips of 5 rounds each = 70 rounds per bandoleer




Last edited by Jimja; 02-23-2018 at 2:50 PM..
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Old 02-23-2018, 3:10 PM
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I know, I know, worthless without pictures, but what can I do?
Post pictures.
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Old 02-23-2018, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
I'm guessing it's Turkish. If so, it's very hot, fine for bolt action mausers but too hot (and not recommended) for semi autos

Pic of it I found on the web, is this it?





Turkish ammo came on clips in bandoleers like this:

7 pockets, each with 2 clips of 5 rounds each = 70 rounds per bandoleer



That's the stuff exactly!

I'm shooting a Persian and a dou.45 98k so I'm good (I guess). I just wonder if it is indeed steel jacketed, is there anything to be concerned about?
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Old 02-23-2018, 3:28 PM
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The Turk with the silver bullet is steel jacket. The Turk with the copper jacket is not. Only late 49 to 52 is lead and copper. These usually came in bandoleers with no buttons, and looked like WW2 GI bandos.
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Old 02-23-2018, 3:43 PM
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It's not steel, it's cupro-nickle. It will foul a bore like copper does, and it's a real PITA to clean out. 320 rnds isn't going to foul the bore though, unless you shoot it all in one sitting, without a break, down a hot barrel. If you do, your shoulder will be in worse shape than the barrel.
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Old 02-23-2018, 3:43 PM
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I shot some Turkish 8mm before and they ALL had delayed ignition (hangfire). I would pull the trigger and here the firing pin hit, but it would take 1 to 2 seconds before it went bang.


.
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Old 02-23-2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
I shot some Turkish 8mm before and they ALL had delayed ignition (hangfire). I would pull the trigger and here the firing pin hit, but it would take 1 to 2 seconds before it went bang.
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Are you sure it wasn't Persian? That ammo is notorious for hangfires and duds
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Old 02-23-2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
I shot some Turkish 8mm before and they ALL had delayed ignition (hangfire). I would pull the trigger and here the firing pin hit, but it would take 1 to 2 seconds before it went bang.


.
That sounds like Iranian surplus, not Turk. I've shot hundreds of rounds of Turk, multiple years loaded, and never had a click/bang, and most of it was loaded in the 1930's too.
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Old 02-23-2018, 4:45 PM
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The Turk ammo is some hot stuff. Nearly 3000fps with a 150gr bullet. It should only be shot out of a strong bolt action, not a semi-auto like a G-43.
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Old 02-23-2018, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
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Are you sure it wasn't Persian? That ammo is notorious for hangfires and duds
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
That sounds like Iranian surplus, not Turk. I've shot hundreds of rounds of Turk, multiple years loaded, and never had a click/bang, and most of it was loaded in the 1930's too.

I thought it was Turkish. Maybe it was Iranian. It all went bang - just a few seconds later than it should have.

Maybe the Turks captured some Iranian 8mm ammo.


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Old 02-23-2018, 5:51 PM
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Never had hangfire with Turkish, but with all Persian I have
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Old 02-23-2018, 8:19 PM
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This is nasty stuff, dirty and corrosive. I bought that crap at the Costa Mesa show at the beginning of my Mauser career, twenty something years ago. I didn't know better. It sold for about $7 per bandoleer and there were boxes under the tables full of it. I was used to shooting Remington and cleaning the rifle when time permitted. I shot that crap without cleaning right away, picked up the rifle again a week and a half later and the bore looked like a galvanized water pipe after 20 years of usage. I scrubbed the hell out of it and it ended up being OK but never like it used to be. Pulled the bullets, set the powder on fire and dumped the Berdan cases at Angeles shooting range.
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Old 02-23-2018, 9:00 PM
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I have found the Turkish surplus to be excellent as background props in photo shoots or as toss-in extras to sweeten trade deals.

For shooting, not so much.
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Old 02-23-2018, 9:22 PM
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The Turk ammo is some hot stuff. Nearly 3000fps with a 150gr bullet. It should only be shot out of a strong bolt action, not a semi-auto like a G-43.
There is a joke amongst some of the MG gunsmiths, something to do with how much money the Turkish ammo has made them in broken auto's and semi-auto's that need to be fixed after getting demolished by the over-powered ammo.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:40 PM
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There is a joke amongst some of the MG gunsmiths, something to do with how much money the Turkish ammo has made them in broken auto's and semi-auto's that need to be fixed after getting demolished by the over-powered ammo.
Considering what they shot it through like 88/05/35s and pre-98 type Mauser action rifles, it is surprising that the stuff was loaded so hot.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:53 PM
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Considering what they shot it through like 88/05/35s and pre-98 type Mauser action rifles, it is surprising that the stuff was loaded so hot.

Not all of it, just the odd round that has been amped up.

From the Forgotten Weapons site:
"...the powder granules have deteriorated and the surface area increased, leading to a much faster burn rate than when originally made, and thus excessive pressure..."

The whole article:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/why...h-8mm-surplus/
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Old 02-24-2018, 9:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pitfighter View Post
Not all of it, just the odd round that has been amped up.

From the Forgotten Weapons site:
"...the powder granules have deteriorated and the surface area increased, leading to a much faster burn rate than when originally made, and thus excessive pressure..."

The whole article:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/why...h-8mm-surplus/
Interesting. I'm used to powder burn rates deteriorating (slowing) or burning at uneven rates but not increasing with age.
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Old 02-24-2018, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
It's not steel, it's cupro-nickle. It will foul a bore like copper does, and it's a real PITA to clean out. 320 rnds isn't going to foul the bore though, unless you shoot it all in one sitting, without a break, down a hot barrel. If you do, your shoulder will be in worse shape than the barrel.
I generally swab the bores down with Sweet's 762 as soon as I can after a visit to the range to clear any corrosive priming and also any copper fouling. I trust that Sweets will clear cupro-nickle fouling too?
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:03 AM
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aklon, with what little you have of that ammo, and using sweets, you don't have any worries. The change from the cupro-nickle to copper jackets came about from the thousands of rounds soldiers were running through the guns. Copper was just easier to clean out of the bores. Shoot it up, but I can highly advise using a slip on recoil pad!
pitfighter's link about the powder deterioration might have some merit to it. The burn rate on smokeless stick powders is primarily controlled by the stick coating. I've stressed this point before about tumbling live rounds. You damage the coating, you change the burn rate.
The bottom line on Turk 8mm surplus is, the Turks used a powder unique to their ammo. It had a different burn rate than any other 8mm milsurp, and that resulted in a faster pressure spike. Another result is a bruised shoulder!
smle-man, I had the same thoughts about this stuff in the 88's too. When the Turks did their ammo standardization on all their models of rifles, they gave the barrels a generous amount of freebore to compensate for that pressure spike. It worked, but I'll stick to Romanian surplus in the 88.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
I thought it was Turkish. Maybe it was Iranian. It all went bang - just a few seconds later than it should have.

Maybe the Turks captured some Iranian 8mm ammo.


.
When it first hit the market, most importers didn't know wth it was, and sold it as Turk, and if I remember right, it was coming in with the Turk surplus at the time. It didn't take the C&R shooters long to investigate the headstamp after all the hangfires.
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Old 02-25-2018, 8:55 AM
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If it is the stuff shown on the pictures it is def. Turkish. The Persian/Iranian ammo still used the Arabic numbering system. For example instead of 7,9 it would show V.9. The V is seven in Arab/Persian, and 9 looks the same as ours, but a little more wavy. Also all of the lettering is in Persian, not Latin letters. The Persian ammo also was copper bullet, not nickel or tombac like most Turk is. Also the Persian ammo was terrible. The Turk for the most part is still sure fire. A little has gone bad, usually click boom, but most has been 100%https://www.google.com/search?q=pers...2sG4Or_hF0aKM: reliable. Here is a link to a guy with a Persian round in his hand.
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