Carrying in synagogue with rabbi's permission

[EricOdessit]

Hi, I have a legal question. I and a couple of other guys decided to volunteer to provide security during Shabbat services at our local synagogue (San Diego). We don't have CCW permits, but according to our rabbi, with his permission we can carry concealed weapons inside the synagogue. Is our rabbi correct? Do we need a written permission, or is verbal permission enough?
Thank you.

[baranski]

#1) Get written permission regardless


#2) Have you applied with Sheriff Gore? If not get cracking!!!!


#3) Look up lawyer John Dillon and get some 100% real answers (he's also a San Diego County Gun Owners board member)


Good on the rabbi for protecting the flock!

[Eat Dirt]

Remember ,,Sholom...........

But carry a big stick.........

[EricOdessit]

Originally Posted by baranski

#1) Get written permission regardless


#2) Have you applied with Sheriff Gore? If not get cracking!!!!


#3) Look up lawyer John Dillon and get some 100% real answers (he's also a San Diego County Gun Owners board member)


Good on the rabbi for protecting the flock!

Thank you very much. That's actually a great idea. I will definitely contact SDCGO. After all my membership should count for some thing. By the way, have you heard of Guns'n'Moses?

[Cokebottle]

If there is a school on the property, then you can not carry even with a permit.

[hermosabeach]

Normally OK for employees I carry at work with written permission from management.

On private property in a religious setting, I am not sure.

Who is the PD that is assigned to the area? I would speak with them.
Get names / emails addresses.
Get the permission in writing from the rabbi.

Should there ever be an issue, it is so much easier to have a letter in your possession from the rabbi and a second one of the names, titles, phone numbers of the people with the PD who you discussed this with and their requirements.


Do you have an umbrella policy that will Cover you civilly and criminally?

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by hermosabeach

Normally OK for employees I carry at work with written permission from management.

Only in an area that is not accessible to the public.

The state has a funny definition of "private property" when such property allows access by people other than employees.

There is another thread going on a similar situation at a private residence during a party.
Normally, the private residence would be good to go with permission, but in a party situation, it is more like a business open to the public. The owner, as with a business, has the right to revoke access.
That is a touchy situation and potentially falls on the wrong side of the law.

For a Synagogue, that is even closer to a "business open to the public" than the house party and I would not be comfortable saying that carry would be legal except by employees within offices.

And again, if there is a K-12 school, carry would be prohibited for everyone other than LEO under the revised 929.9

[71MUSTY]

God only knows.

Or maybe

Only God should know.

[EricOdessit]

Thanks. Well, they do have a day care center, but is is not operational during Shabbat services. And it's in the back of the synagogue, so I wouldn't be going there. So, it looks like I have to get a written permission as a first step anyway. The rabbi was all for it, so it shouldn't be a problem. He keeps his shotgun in his office anyway.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

God only knows.

Or maybe

Only God should know.

Concealed means concealed.
Confirm that your CCW insurance covers if you are carrying in a gun-free-zone.
Unlikely that your homeowner's umbrella will... and you'll need a permit for CCW-Safe or USCCA.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by EricOdessit

Thanks. Well, they do have a day care center, but is is not operational during Shabbat services. And it's in the back of the synagogue, so I wouldn't be going there. So, it looks like I have to get a written permission as a first step anyway. The rabbi was all for it, so it shouldn't be a problem. He keeps his shotgun in his office anyway.

A day care center would not be considered to be a K-12 under 626.9, so you'd be in the clear there.

[grantar2]

Originally Posted by EricOdessit

Thanks. Well, they do have a day care center, but is is not operational during Shabbat services. And it's in the back of the synagogue, so I wouldn't be going there. So, it looks like I have to get a written permission as a first step anyway. The rabbi was all for it, so it shouldn't be a problem. He keeps his shotgun in his office anyway.

My friend the application with SDSD is the first thing you should do. Good cause will not be hard to put together.

May I suggest you contact Steve Liberman at the Law Offices of Lieberman & Taornina, LLP. Steve co-owns Artemis Defense Institute in Lake Forest and Aegis Rapid Response Team covering firearms issues. You will get straight answers.

Shalom

[Surf & Turf]

Your rabbi is a wiseman!

[Big Jake]

Based on what happened in Pittsburgh this is a wise decision for sure. Carry safely and may you never need to use it!

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by grantar2

My friend the application with SDSD is the first thing you should do. Good cause will not be hard to put together.

May I suggest you contact Steve Liberman at the Law Offices of Lieberman & Taornina, LLP. Steve co-owns Artemis Defense Institute in Lake Forest and Aegis Rapid Response Team covering firearms issues. You will get straight answers.

Shalom

^^^ This ^^^

Get competent legal advice before doing anything like allowing unlicensed CCW. Know the actual risks, act in your own best interests.

[G-forceJunkie]

I would also look into POST certs for firearms, etc. Since your basically acting as security, getting security guard training would be bennificial and my help cover your self, liability wise.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie

I would also look into POST certs for firearms, etc. Since your basically acting as security, getting security guard training would be bennificial and my help cover your self, liability wise.

That works for people following the whole set of BSIS rules - actually employed by a guard provider, wearing a distinctive uniform, having the exposed firearm permit, and carrying openly.

That would be a solution, ordinarily without legal peril.