"You're only a veteran if you served in combat!"

[winnre]

When you think about it, the VFW will only keep out Civil War vets.

And I'd like to see having a DD214 be one of the requirements to be President.

[OldShooter32]

Ask them for their DD214 -- veterans know what it is, most 'civilians' don't.

[RMP91]

Originally Posted by winnre

When you think about it, the VFW will only keep out Civil War vets.

And I'd like to see having a DD214 be one of the requirements to be President.

And WWI vets, because the last one passed away a few weeks ago. Don't quote me though, there may be some more out there that haven't spoken up.

[Roach_Infinity]

I just typed a huge essay about my experience in the U.S. Army, and then thought better of posting it and deleted it.

I just want to say that people have different experiences, fail themselves, their branch, or experience institutional failure within the military, it is the nature of the beast.

Anyone who signed up in good faith is at least deserving of a minimal level of respect and the term 'Veteran.'

I will also point out there there are people serving, and who have served who dishonor the principles of their branch, but will lead a successful career anyway because "it is what it is."

The "combat veteran" drama comes from people who are unable to articulate the concept of a veteran fully, just remember they are ignorant, but so are we all.

-Eric

[VictorFranko]

Originally Posted by winnre

When you think about it, the VFW will only keep out Civil War vets.

Actually, the VFW is a spin-off of the Grand Old Army, which was a Civil War Veterans group that fought for rights and medical care for civil war vets.

[Random_Hero]

Its one thing for service members to blue falcon each other for either having deployed or not deployed.

But its entirely another thing for someone who never served to try and pull that your not a "vet unless you" crap. I don't see them stepping up to the plate, so they should probrably get off their soapbox.

[SilverTauron]

Originally Posted by Random_Hero

Its one thing for service members to blue falcon each other for either having deployed or not deployed.

But its entirely another thing for someone who never served to try and pull that your not a "vet unless you" crap. I don't see them stepping up to the plate, so they should probrably get off their soapbox.

Even then, its not a productive discourse.

Unless one of the parties dodged their deployment, it is not appropriate or fair at all to label the non-deployed member as somehow inferior. I sure didn't get a say as to when I could deploy, and when I asked about volunteering for a tour in Iraq I got told our job manning was out of whack and to expect a 24 month wait before being possibly tagged for a trip. Contrary to civilian perception,certain jobs don't send people out every 6 months.

To add to that ironically some military careers are more dangerous at home base than overseas. Maintenance guys in the AF loved being deployed, because in the desert they got to contribute to the fight and help kick ***, instead of freezing or roasting at a CONUS base doing some lame ORI wondering if they are gonna get run over by Airman Snuffy in the Power Cart.The Air Force loses more people to CONUS car wrecks and flightline safety accidents than wartime casualties.

[Uxi]

That's called a "combat vet"

[paul0660]

The moment you graduate from training, the "Veteran" title stays with you forever, regardless if you ever see combat or not!!!

True, and many "Veteran"s have milked the system like a baby momma crack whore. It isn't easily manageable.

[njineermike]

As someone who got bounced at MEPS, I envy all of you who signed up, volunteered, and served. It's something you will always have. My father is a purple heart wounded veteran from Vietnam. My grandfather was shot down in WWII, Korea, and twice in Vietnam. I have uncles who were wounded in combat, annd can trace an almost continuous line of active duty service in the Army all the way back to the revolution with records of an ancestor who was awarded combat injury back-pay. I've spent my entire life around combat and non combat vets. Not one of them wpuld have even thought what the OP heard, and the combat vets would probably have fed him a meal of fist and teeth for saying it. My father was watchimg the Vietnam HD on history this weekend, pointing out what the narrator got wrong about Tet and his experiences. They showed images of a coffin with a flag on it and said these were the real heroes. My dad said that was wrong. He said anybody wearing a uniform deserved the same respect the dead man in the feild got. Since he's spent the last 40 years with shrapnel in him, and went through one of the bloodiest battles of Vietnam,and taught me the real sacrifice the military life entails, he should know. I'll trust his judgement above anyones. He's earned that, too.

[WARDOG]

Originally Posted by RMP91

"You're only a veteran if you've actually seen combat, killed somebody, or actually lost a limb in service of your country".

Am I missing something?
Who said it and where, when?

Regarding the comment about "Citizens" and "Civilians". I can't agree.
While I am fed up with jackwagons running our country with no life experience, and have made politics a carreer, not everyone has what it takes to serve in the military. Both of my Grandfathers were drafted for WWII. One couldn't make it because his right arms was run over by a tractor when he was 8 years old. He went on to working at AERO Jet & Boeing as an engineer designing aircraft components. My other grandfather couldn't pass the physical because his feet had abnormalities that prevented him from marching. He went on to become a welder, welding submarines at Mare Island, and the Oakland shipyards during WWII.
Both were great men who contributed greatly to the war effort, and being very successful people.
We could help our country immensely if we stopped allowing politics to become a carreer. That would prevent our current President from running a great country into the ground because he has absolutely NO life experience, not even managing a F'ing McDonalds.

As far as DD214's. When I was in they were good enough to indicate your MOS, awards, ribbons, and only some skill identifiers. I was in the Army from 1984-1990. The Army had some crazy rules back then. If you were Ranger qualified, but not assigned to a Ranger unit you could not wear the Ranger tab. Many foreign training was not recognized, and you were not authorized to wear the training identifiers on your BDU's (Foreign Parachute wings, French Commando badge, Jungle Expert patch, etc.) Also, many of the countries that you were deployed to did not show up on your ETS DD-214. I had fellow troopers have complications of malaria from Panama and attempt to get treatment at a Vet's hospital, but their DD214 did not indicate they were ever there. The same goes with strange illnesses by troopers that got sick in Haiti, and Bosnia.
Many times they were stuck because they were inserted into countries, did their job, had to sign non-disclosure agreements about where they were and what they did, and then had to convince the VA that their condition was a cause of where they were.

As far as veterans. Anyone who has served honorably is a veteran. It doesn't matter if they were in combat.
When my twin sons enetered into the military they asked me what job they should get to make a difference. My advice was to learn something that they could apply to the civilian world when they got out.
I also explained the following to them to put members of the military into perspective.
The military is a team . Everyone works together to accomplish the objective. There will be soldiers working out front that you will see, but there are so many support personnel that makes the team work. I understand that 70% of the armed forces serve in a support role.
Intel troops tell you where and when.
Mechanics keep your rigs operational in the harshest of conditions.
Transportation gets the troops around and up front.
Supply gets the food, ammo and fuel where it is needed.
Medical takes care of you when your injured, and keeps you healthy.
Honor Guard helps your family with pride, and acknowledgement of sacrifice when you are buried in the 'leanin' rest'.
Technicians keep your comm's, and tech equipment reliable in the harshest of conditions.
Radio operators know how to talk with one another to get the info through from the soldiers shooting, to the generals pointing.
When you have been in the trenches for months on end, and you get some R&R, you appreciate the ride back to base, hot food, fresh uniforms and equipment, getting cold beer and a warm bed. Forward troops give the support troops a lot of crap, but without support none of it would happen.
The Army gives Navy and Air Force troops a lot of crap too. But when they need air support, high or low there is no complaining.
Now if the Marines can just learn to count past 'four'. Seriously, how the Marines do what they do, with the crappy equipment they have, it's amazing.

That's my input.
WARDOG
101st ABN Pathfinders

[Tripper]

+1000
Well said wardog

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

Am I missing something?
Who said it and where, when?

Regarding the comment about "Citizens" and "Civilians". I can't agree.
While I am fed up with jackwagons running our country with no life experience, and have made politics a carreer, not everyone has what it takes to serve in the military. Both of my Grandfathers were drafted for WWII. One couldn't make it because his right arms was run over by a tractor when he was 8 years old. He went on to working at AERO Jet & Boeing as an engineer designing aircraft components. My other grandfather couldn't pass the physical because his feet had abnormalities that prevented him from marching. He went on to become a welder, welding submarines at Mare Island, and the Oakland shipyards during WWII.
Both were great men who contributed greatly to the war effort, and being very successful people.
We could help our country immensely if we stopped allowing politics to become a carreer. That would prevent our current President from running a great country into the ground because he has absolutely NO life experience, not even managing a F'ing McDonalds.

As far as DD214's. When I was in they were good enough to indicate your MOS, awards, ribbons, and only some skill identifiers. I was in the Army from 1984-1990. The Army had some crazy rules back then. If you were Ranger qualified, but not assigned to a Ranger unit you could not wear the Ranger tab. Many foreign training was not recognized, and you were not authorized to wear the training identifiers on your BDU's (Foreign Parachute wings, French Commando badge, Jungle Expert patch, etc.) Also, many of the countries that you were deployed to did not show up on your ETS DD-214. I had fellow troopers have complications of malaria from Panama and attempt to get treatment at a Vet's hospital, but their DD214 did not indicate they were ever there. The same goes with strange illnesses by troopers that got sick in Haiti, and Bosnia.
Many times they were stuck because they were inserted into countries, did their job, had to sign non-disclosure agreements about where they were and what they did, and then had to convince the VA that their condition was a cause of where they were.

As far as veterans. Anyone who has served honorably is a veteran. It doesn't matter if they were in combat.
When my twin sons enetered into the military they asked me what job they should get to make a difference. My advice was to learn something that they could apply to the civilian world when they got out.
I also explained the following to them to put members of the military into perspective.
The military is a team . Everyone works together to accomplish the objective. There will be soldiers working out front that you will see, but there are so many support personnel that makes the team work. I understand that 70% of the armed forces serve in a support role.
Intel troops tell you where and when.
Mechanics keep your rigs operational in the harshest of conditions.
Transportation gets the troops around and up front.
Supply gets the food, ammo and fuel where it is needed.
Medical takes care of you when your injured, and keeps you healthy.
Honor Guard helps your family with pride, and acknowledgement of sacrifice when you are buried in the 'leanin' rest'.
Technicians keep your comm's, and tech equipment reliable in the harshest of conditions.
Radio operators know how to talk with one another to get the info through from the soldiers shooting, to the generals pointing.
When you have been in the trenches for months on end, and you get some R&R, you appreciate the ride back to base, hot food, fresh uniforms and equipment, getting cold beer and a warm bed. Forward troops give the support troops a lot of crap, but without support none of it would happen.
The Army gives Navy and Air Force troops a lot of crap too. But when they need air support, high or low there is no complaining.
Now if the Marines can just learn to count past 'four'. Seriously, how the Marines do what they do, with the crappy equipment they have, it's amazing.

That's my input.
WARDOG
101st ABN Pathfinders

Well said

[Madpyro]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

Am I missing something?
Who said it and where, when?

Regarding the comment about "Citizens" and "Civilians". I can't agree.
While I am fed up with jackwagons running our country with no life experience, and have made politics a carreer, not everyone has what it takes to serve in the military. Both of my Grandfathers were drafted for WWII. One couldn't make it because his right arms was run over by a tractor when he was 8 years old. He went on to working at AERO Jet & Boeing as an engineer designing aircraft components. My other grandfather couldn't pass the physical because his feet had abnormalities that prevented him from marching. He went on to become a welder, welding submarines at Mare Island, and the Oakland shipyards during WWII.
Both were great men who contributed greatly to the war effort, and being very successful people.
We could help our country immensely if we stopped allowing politics to become a carreer. That would prevent our current President from running a great country into the ground because he has absolutely NO life experience, not even managing a F'ing McDonalds.

As far as DD214's. When I was in they were good enough to indicate your MOS, awards, ribbons, and only some skill identifiers. I was in the Army from 1984-1990. The Army had some crazy rules back then. If you were Ranger qualified, but not assigned to a Ranger unit you could not wear the Ranger tab. Many foreign training was not recognized, and you were not authorized to wear the training identifiers on your BDU's (Foreign Parachute wings, French Commando badge, Jungle Expert patch, etc.) Also, many of the countries that you were deployed to did not show up on your ETS DD-214. I had fellow troopers have complications of malaria from Panama and attempt to get treatment at a Vet's hospital, but their DD214 did not indicate they were ever there. The same goes with strange illnesses by troopers that got sick in Haiti, and Bosnia.
Many times they were stuck because they were inserted into countries, did their job, had to sign non-disclosure agreements about where they were and what they did, and then had to convince the VA that their condition was a cause of where they were.

As far as veterans. Anyone who has served honorably is a veteran. It doesn't matter if they were in combat.
When my twin sons enetered into the military they asked me what job they should get to make a difference. My advice was to learn something that they could apply to the civilian world when they got out.
I also explained the following to them to put members of the military into perspective.
The military is a team . Everyone works together to accomplish the objective. There will be soldiers working out front that you will see, but there are so many support personnel that makes the team work. I understand that 70% of the armed forces serve in a support role.
Intel troops tell you where and when.
Mechanics keep your rigs operational in the harshest of conditions.
Transportation gets the troops around and up front.
Supply gets the food, ammo and fuel where it is needed.
Medical takes care of you when your injured, and keeps you healthy.
Honor Guard helps your family with pride, and acknowledgement of sacrifice when you are buried in the 'leanin' rest'.
Technicians keep your comm's, and tech equipment reliable in the harshest of conditions.
Radio operators know how to talk with one another to get the info through from the soldiers shooting, to the generals pointing.
When you have been in the trenches for months on end, and you get some R&R, you appreciate the ride back to base, hot food, fresh uniforms and equipment, getting cold beer and a warm bed. Forward troops give the support troops a lot of crap, but without support none of it would happen.
The Army gives Navy and Air Force troops a lot of crap too. But when they need air support, high or low there is no complaining.
Now if the Marines can just learn to count past 'four'. Seriously, how the Marines do what they do, with the crappy equipment they have, it's amazing.

That's my input.
WARDOG
101st ABN Pathfinders

Thank You!

[sumdood]

I was in the USMC from 1979 through 1983. I get practictly zero benefits because no conflicts were taking place where they sent me. Even my place of work doesn't recognize it. They use a standard list that is published that describes what periods of time or certain conflicts you had to of been involved in to have additional preferences such as not getting laid off of work before someone else that does the same type of work, but has no recognized military service. This is in the aerospace industry.

This kind of ticks me off. I think everyone that honorably served should be recognized for it. I mean, guys like us do not decide when wars will start or end. We only serve.

[WARDOG]

What??
The Marines were in Grenada, Lebanon, Dominican Republic & Cuba while you were in. Just because some of the operations didn't have catchy names, didn't mean we didn't have troops planning ops a year or two ahead.
Yeah we ousted Noriega at the end of 1989 ('Op Just Cause'), but your crazy if you think the CIA didn't have plans to dispose of Noriega before they even helped him get into power. Troops laid the ground work for an invasion 2 years before they actually did it. Satellite imaging then was a far cry from what it is today. Boots on the ground is what determined what was either an open field for a LZ/DZ, or a marsh / wetland / bog detrimental to the airborne troop landing to come.
The same as Baby-Doc Duvalier from Haiti. The US ousted Haiti's Hitler, but it took a lot of planning, and troops on the ground to get the Haitian people to get with it. The Haitian's can't boil water unless you show them how.
My point is that there is no way for employers to know what was a military op, and just because our military troops weren't visible doesn't mean they weren't there or getting shot up.

Originally Posted by sumdood

I was in the USMC from 1979 through 1983. I get practictly zero benefits because no conflicts were taking place where they sent me. Even my place of work doesn't recognize it. They use a standard list that is published that describes what periods of time or certain conflicts you had to of been involved in to have additional preferences such as not getting laid off of work before someone else that does the same type of work, but has no recognized military service. This is in the aerospace industry....

[themailman]

Im not a combat vet, but I have deployed.

I got bounced from MEPS for the Army, so I went to the Marines. I got bounced from Marine MEPS TWICE, but on my third try I got the waivers I wanted and joined. I had a waiver for being deaf in my right ear, but I still joined as infantry. After bootcamp I was forced into a lat-move and was given a "needs of the Corps" job because of my hearing. I did a job had nothing to do with Combat, but it still took me ALL over the world. Ive been stationed on both coasts, been to places like Cambodia, Dubai, Bahrain, Singapore etc. I spent a year away from my wife in a combat zone, but was never shot at and never fired a shot. I made sacrifices, spent so much time away from my family, destroyed my knees, and served with honor. I wanted so badly to be a combat vet, but it just never worked out.

Am I a veteran? I think so. Am I a combat vet, not at all, and would never claim to be. A combat vet holds higher status than I do, and I respect that.

[kimber_ss]

A salute goes out to combat vets! One incident I remember was a little exciting. The ship I was on was hit by another ship. It ripped about a 4 foot by 3 foot hole in the hull about 2 feet above the water line. It was a little spooky to be out in the middle of the pacific seeing the water go by through the hole.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

1989 ('Op Just Cause'), Satellite imaging then was a far cry from what it is today. Boots on the ground is what determined what was either an open field for a LZ/DZ, or a marsh / wetland / bog detrimental to the airborne troop landing to come.

funny you say that
My unit (Romeos( 7ID) went dec 7 for exactly that (to determine lz/dz) among other things of course
And your right sat imagery was not what it is today, but we did have it and was invaluable
We were attached eventually to infantry and did everything they did but we didn't get the 'combat infantry badge' only because we were not 11b
I was part of a team that recovered a team of combat wounded, but didn't qualify for combat medic badge

So with that said there is delineation between 'combat infantry badge' and 'combat medic badge' and combat jump wings where those are ONLY awarded to vets IN combat in Those specialties

This COULD be why some have the idea the OP suggested

[navycorpsman]

Only a vet if you pay off your GI bill haha. kidding no To ALLLLLL my Veteran Brother and sisters out there and speaking for myself as a Combat vet is all of us are created equal under my eyes, us on the ground and in the fight would not be successful without the logistics and other support from other Brothers and sisters around all branches and services. CORPSMAN UP!!!!

[WARDOG]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

What??
Yeah we ousted Noriega at the end of 1989 ('Op Just Cause'),... Troops laid the ground work for an invasion 2 years before they actually did it. Satellite imaging then was a far cry from what it is today.

Originally Posted by Tripper

funny you say thatMy unit (Romeos( 7ID) went dec 7 for exactly that (to determine lz/dz) among other things of course

I can assure you the Pathfinders were there well before Dec. 7th 1989.
Thank you for your service.

[ch47gunner]

It's OK for me to call 'em REMF's but, it's not OK for you (non-vets) to.

In the good (bad) ol' days that's pretty much the way it was - many of us aircrew owe a huge debt to our support people. The was always a lot of ribbing (usually) going on especially with the maintenance crews (hangar monkeys), clerks, and supply people. Go ahead & upset supply or maintenance and see where it gets you.

Bruce

[RMP91]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

Am I missing something?
Who said it and where, when?

Regarding the comment about "Citizens" and "Civilians". I can't agree.
While I am fed up with jackwagons running our country with no life experience, and have made politics a carreer, not everyone has what it takes to serve in the military. Both of my Grandfathers were drafted for WWII. One couldn't make it because his right arms was run over by a tractor when he was 8 years old. He went on to working at AERO Jet & Boeing as an engineer designing aircraft components. My other grandfather couldn't pass the physical because his feet had abnormalities that prevented him from marching. He went on to become a welder, welding submarines at Mare Island, and the Oakland shipyards during WWII.
Both were great men who contributed greatly to the war effort, and being very successful people.
We could help our country immensely if we stopped allowing politics to become a carreer. That would prevent our current President from running a great country into the ground because he has absolutely NO life experience, not even managing a F'ing McDonalds.

As far as DD214's. When I was in they were good enough to indicate your MOS, awards, ribbons, and only some skill identifiers. I was in the Army from 1984-1990. The Army had some crazy rules back then. If you were Ranger qualified, but not assigned to a Ranger unit you could not wear the Ranger tab. Many foreign training was not recognized, and you were not authorized to wear the training identifiers on your BDU's (Foreign Parachute wings, French Commando badge, Jungle Expert patch, etc.) Also, many of the countries that you were deployed to did not show up on your ETS DD-214. I had fellow troopers have complications of malaria from Panama and attempt to get treatment at a Vet's hospital, but their DD214 did not indicate they were ever there. The same goes with strange illnesses by troopers that got sick in Haiti, and Bosnia.
Many times they were stuck because they were inserted into countries, did their job, had to sign non-disclosure agreements about where they were and what they did, and then had to convince the VA that their condition was a cause of where they were.

As far as veterans. Anyone who has served honorably is a veteran. It doesn't matter if they were in combat.
When my twin sons enetered into the military they asked me what job they should get to make a difference. My advice was to learn something that they could apply to the civilian world when they got out.
I also explained the following to them to put members of the military into perspective.
The military is a team . Everyone works together to accomplish the objective. There will be soldiers working out front that you will see, but there are so many support personnel that makes the team work. I understand that 70% of the armed forces serve in a support role.
Intel troops tell you where and when.
Mechanics keep your rigs operational in the harshest of conditions.
Transportation gets the troops around and up front.
Supply gets the food, ammo and fuel where it is needed.
Medical takes care of you when your injured, and keeps you healthy.
Honor Guard helps your family with pride, and acknowledgement of sacrifice when you are buried in the 'leanin' rest'.
Technicians keep your comm's, and tech equipment reliable in the harshest of conditions.
Radio operators know how to talk with one another to get the info through from the soldiers shooting, to the generals pointing.
When you have been in the trenches for months on end, and you get some R&R, you appreciate the ride back to base, hot food, fresh uniforms and equipment, getting cold beer and a warm bed. Forward troops give the support troops a lot of crap, but without support none of it would happen.
The Army gives Navy and Air Force troops a lot of crap too. But when they need air support, high or low there is no complaining.
Now if the Marines can just learn to count past 'four'. Seriously, how the Marines do what they do, with the crappy equipment they have, it's amazing.

That's my input.
WARDOG
101st ABN Pathfinders

*Laughing uncontrollably* In before angry Marines start tearing you a new one


JK amazing post

[Tripper]

Can't find delete on iPhone app

[rugershooter]

Originally Posted by nicki

The older I get, the more I like the idea of dividing our country into two groups, civilians and citizens.

To become a citizen, you have to serve honorably in the military and for your service you get the right to vote, run for public office and/or recieve government granted benefits.

If one chooses to stay a civilian, you get no right to vote, you can't serve in public office and in my view, shouldn't get any government benefits that you did not contribute for.

Citizens have rights because they have earned them by putting their lives on the line to protect the country.

Civilians have limited privileges since they risked nothing.

I don't talk much about my military service since I lucked out and served in a time when we weren't involved in any wars.

The men and women who are serving today IMHO are as good as any previous generation.

If it wasn't for people serving our country in the past, we wouldn't have a country.

While I strongly support freedom of speech, with freedom comes responsibility. It is too bad many people are irresponsible.

Nicki

I respect the military. I have relatives in the military now; one just deployed to Afghanistan. I'm trying to enlist in the Navy now.

But statements like yours come across as extremely elitist and discriminatory. I bust my *** all day at work as an electrician. I work hard for what I have, and I don't appreciate people like you demeaning civilians into mere moneybags for the military. The military exists to protect us, the civilians. Just because I haven't given my life over to the US Government, that doesn't mean that I don't contribute to society. In fact, I "contribute" over 30% of my paycheck every f**king week. I contribute by building hospitals, schools, government buildings, and homes. I'd like to see what you think of civilians when you don't have construction workers to build your home, farmers to grow your food, merchants to sell your food and entertainment, or mechanics to fix your cars. Guess what, when people get out of the military they become civilians and work in civilian jobs.

Yet, you want to turn us civilians into slave labor that only pays for the government and doesn't have a say in how that money is spent. Sounds like you need to go back to school and learn the founding principals of this country. Your life as a serviceman isn't/wasn't any more valuable than mine as an electrician. If you think otherwise, you're extremely bigoted. If you think the existence of people's rights depends on the type of job they choose, you have no idea what rights are about. My rights exist independent of my vocation.

[johnthomas]

All soldiers that graduate basic training are infantrymen. Then they go to advanced training in their working job or advanced combat training.

Since World War II; the ratio of U.S. combat troops to combat service support and support has gone from 4 support soldiers to 1 infantryman to 7 support soldiers to 1 infantryman in Iraq and Afghanistan. These figures generally hold true for both the Army and USMC.

[todd2968]

I was told I could not be a veteran because I still wear the uniform. According to VA this is true, and just boot camp doesn't a veteran make, you have to be in at leas 6 months because you could be sepped if you are less than 6 months like it never happened.

[11Bforme]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

All soldiers that graduate basic training are infantrymen. Then they go to advanced training in their working job or advanced combat training.

Since World War II; the ratio of U.S. combat troops to combat service support and support has gone from 4 support soldiers to 1 infantryman to 7 support soldiers to 1 infantryman in Iraq and Afghanistan. These figures generally hold true for both the Army and USMC.

Not every one who graduates basic training is an infantryman. If you dont have cross rifles and a blue cord you are not an infantryman. Im not sure where you gathered that information.

[mkingwin]

Much love for those serving our country.

Question since this has drawn a lot of attention,

1. What do you call a police officer or deputy sheriff who is shot in the line of duty, all shots draw blood and survives to return back to full duty again?

RIP and respect to all that have fallen while protecting and serving our country and states.

[Pablo22]

I joined the VFW upon returning home from Iraq - they sent me a free one-year membership. I did not care much for it due the Bingo Mafia and the fact that some of my closest friends (Marines) could not join because they were not "War" Veterans. I recently joined the American Legion because I thought that ALL Veterans could join - guess again. Reservists are not allowed to join the Legion unless they were called on Active Duty for an extended period of time. Maybe its time for a New Club that would welcome ALL Vets!

[johnthomas]

Originally Posted by Pablo22

I joined the VFW upon returning home from Iraq - they sent me a free one-year membership. I did not care much for it due the Bingo Mafia and the fact that some of my closest friends (Marines) could not join because they were not "War" Veterans. I recently joined the American Legion because I thought that ALL Veterans could join - guess again. Reservists are not allowed to join the Legion unless they were called on Active Duty for an extended period of time. Maybe its time for a New Club that would welcome ALL Vets!

When I joined the American Legion, the rule was, you had to have been in the service during a war, not in war. I did not know reservist could not join. I quit 26 years ago when I quit drinking. My brother in law is a member, never served in the service. He was able to because his dad was a vet. Kids of vet's pay less yearly dues than veterans do. I agree with you, a vet is a vet is a vet.
They may have not went to war, but were willing and had the same chance as an active duty veteran of being called. This disturbs me.

OP and other veterans, thank you for your service, from me this is not a hallow gesture, THANK YOU.

[RMP91]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

When I joined the American Legion, the rule was, you had to have been in the service during a war, not in war. I did not know reservist could not join. I quit 26 years ago when I quit drinking. My brother in law is a member, never served in the service. He was able to because his dad was a vet. Kids of vet's pay less yearly dues than veterans do. I agree with you, a vet is a vet is a vet.
They may have not went to war, but were willing and had the same chance as an active duty veteran of being called. This disturbs me.

OP and other veterans, thank you for your service, from me this is not a hallow gesture, THANK YOU.

I'm not a vet yet, I'm planning on enlisting at the end of the year though, thank you in advance!

[Irish Gunner]

You wear the uniform, you deserve the respect! We can debate til we are blue in the face the subtleties of being a war veteran vs. military veteran. Do you knock the guy who is willing to go to the desert, but isn't chosen. Has he or she done less for the country! I think that logic is crap.

I didn't serve. I tried and found out that Academy life wasn't for me (call me a washout if you want). My father and uncles have served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Cuba. Every person to don the uniform gets my respect. If I see an oldtimer with his hat, I thank him and shake his hand. I've even bought a round for some guys at the airport that just got back.

The fool referred to in the OP is just an idiot, who MAY be trying to boost himself up at the expense of others and to me, that makes him a LOSER!

[chris]

Originally Posted by WARDOG

Am I missing something?
Who said it and where, when?

Regarding the comment about "Citizens" and "Civilians". I can't agree.
While I am fed up with jackwagons running our country with no life experience, and have made politics a carreer, not everyone has what it takes to serve in the military. Both of my Grandfathers were drafted for WWII. One couldn't make it because his right arms was run over by a tractor when he was 8 years old. He went on to working at AERO Jet & Boeing as an engineer designing aircraft components. My other grandfather couldn't pass the physical because his feet had abnormalities that prevented him from marching. He went on to become a welder, welding submarines at Mare Island, and the Oakland shipyards during WWII.
Both were great men who contributed greatly to the war effort, and being very successful people.
We could help our country immensely if we stopped allowing politics to become a carreer. That would prevent our current President from running a great country into the ground because he has absolutely NO life experience, not even managing a F'ing McDonalds.

As far as DD214's. When I was in they were good enough to indicate your MOS, awards, ribbons, and only some skill identifiers. I was in the Army from 1984-1990. The Army had some crazy rules back then. If you were Ranger qualified, but not assigned to a Ranger unit you could not wear the Ranger tab. Many foreign training was not recognized, and you were not authorized to wear the training identifiers on your BDU's (Foreign Parachute wings, French Commando badge, Jungle Expert patch, etc.) Also, many of the countries that you were deployed to did not show up on your ETS DD-214. I had fellow troopers have complications of malaria from Panama and attempt to get treatment at a Vet's hospital, but their DD214 did not indicate they were ever there. The same goes with strange illnesses by troopers that got sick in Haiti, and Bosnia.
Many times they were stuck because they were inserted into countries, did their job, had to sign non-disclosure agreements about where they were and what they did, and then had to convince the VA that their condition was a cause of where they were.

As far as veterans. Anyone who has served honorably is a veteran. It doesn't matter if they were in combat.
When my twin sons enetered into the military they asked me what job they should get to make a difference. My advice was to learn something that they could apply to the civilian world when they got out.
I also explained the following to them to put members of the military into perspective.
The military is a team . Everyone works together to accomplish the objective. There will be soldiers working out front that you will see, but there are so many support personnel that makes the team work. I understand that 70% of the armed forces serve in a support role.
Intel troops tell you where and when.
Mechanics keep your rigs operational in the harshest of conditions.
Transportation gets the troops around and up front.
Supply gets the food, ammo and fuel where it is needed.
Medical takes care of you when your injured, and keeps you healthy.
Honor Guard helps your family with pride, and acknowledgement of sacrifice when you are buried in the 'leanin' rest'.
Technicians keep your comm's, and tech equipment reliable in the harshest of conditions.
Radio operators know how to talk with one another to get the info through from the soldiers shooting, to the generals pointing.
When you have been in the trenches for months on end, and you get some R&R, you appreciate the ride back to base, hot food, fresh uniforms and equipment, getting cold beer and a warm bed. Forward troops give the support troops a lot of crap, but without support none of it would happen.
The Army gives Navy and Air Force troops a lot of crap too. But when they need air support, high or low there is no complaining.
Now if the Marines can just learn to count past 'four' . Seriously, how the Marines do what they do, with the crappy equipment they have, it's amazing.

That's my input.
WARDOG
101st ABN Pathfinders

so true so true LOL.
very well said.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

There's lots of players on the team. Not everyone gets to play "Quarterback".

I volunteered for deployement status for my unit; they even assigned me to an AEF (still have the card, somewhere). I never got called up but I was ready and willing. Space Command didn't really have a lot of deployment opportunities then...

[RMP91]

Originally Posted by CEDaytonaRydr

There's lots of players on the team. Not everyone gets to play "Quarterback".

I volunteered for deployment status for my unit; they even assigned me to an AEF (still have the card, somewhere). I never got called up but I was ready and willing. Space Command didn't really have a lot of deployment opportunities then...

Sig'ing the sentence in bold because it's the ****ing truth!

Just because you're not the "star" doesn't mean you didn't contribute. In fact, if it weren't for a few unacknowledged people behind the scenes, we would have lost both WWII AND the Cold War.


And until we find aliens... I personally do not believe that we'll ever deploy armed personnel into space. But that's for another thread and another time...

[dalriaden]

Originally Posted by johnthomas

All soldiers that graduate basic training are infantrymen. Then they go to advanced training in their working job or advanced combat training.

Not to knock the POGs because I spent 17 months attached to a Field Artillery Battalion outside Tikrit, but graduating basic does not make you an infantrymen. After two months of training and at the end of the deployment however the majority made fine ones.

If you're suggesting a bunch of mechanics who did battle drill 6a in basic twice can clear rooms as well as an infantrymen who sits on DRB 1 waiting for a no notice deployment yer crazy.

Graduating basic does not = Infantry.

[wild_weasel]

I served 6 years active duty in the US Air Forced during the Cold War, from 1980 to 1986, maintaining F-4G’s and A-10’s. However, it was not until serving 3 years as a civilian contractor supporting EOD and Route Clearance Units in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2009 to 2011 that I really felt I earned the title Veteran.

But that is just me…
W-W

[11Bforme]

You are right on the money.

[The War Wagon]

I find it hard to believe an ACTUAL veteran would make such a remark. Did you happen to vet this poser? HE sounds like a GOOD candidate for a "stolen honor" investigation.