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Private Ammo Sales For the Private Sale of Ammo. Read the rules before posting. |
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Ammo Sales Forum RE-OPENED
After seeking counsel and reviewing the text of the new law we are reopening the Private Ammo Sales forum.
We are simply providing a venue to arrange for the legal buying and selling. As always it is up to each member to make sure their sales and/or purchases are conducted in a legal manner. Just to be clear and for those unfamiliar with the law: Quote:
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NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. Last edited by Kestryll; 02-18-2018 at 9:18 PM.. |
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I have had recent, though limited experience with two FFLs, one willing to do the ammo transfer the other not, even if the ammo transfer was to be conducted at the same time as a firearm PPT. My take is that the "administrative fee" is not worth the time of the FFL. So always call ahead of time and save unnecessary and frustrating trips.
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Is ammo vendor required for 500 rounds or less in a 30 day period? Please do not respond if you do not know. No I THINK answers, Have asked before and never got an answer.
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so if I want to a do a private FTF sale of ammo (lets say over 500 rounds). I have to use a "vendor" (aka FFL?).....what is the cost for this service?
Does this apply for ammo under 500 rounds (like lets just say a box of 50 rounds of 22lr) and done privately? Sorry....a little slow on this law... Last edited by JustaBlokeAnywhere; 02-19-2018 at 11:22 AM.. |
#6
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Also -- I mean this in a kind way -- the answers you get here are by their very nature "I THINK" answers. If you need a definitive answer, you'll have to talk to your lawyer or ask the DOJ directly. Last edited by auffie.hk; 02-19-2018 at 11:52 AM.. Reason: grammar |
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Anchors Aweigh |
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^ Correct. More specifically < 500 in 30 days. Which means if you sell 500 on Feb 19, you can't sell another 500 March 2nd. Must be 30 days between transactions.
I would be interested in hearing from anybody that has gone through a transaction via FFL. What info is recorded or documents required for either party. TIA. Last edited by lone shooter; 02-19-2018 at 2:26 PM.. |
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I recently completed a transfer of fewer than 300 rounds via an FFL. The info recorded was: (1) (photocopy of) each party's drivers license, (2) brand names and types of ammo, and number of rounds.
One other thing: the fee was small ($5 -- set by DOJ regulations?) and I can understand why some FFLs might not be willing to do an ammo transfer. (One of the two FFLs whom I contacted refused to conduct the ammo transfer, even when done together with a DROS/PPT of a firearm.) Quote:
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For my recent transfer, my FFL charged $5. I think this fee is set by DOJ regulations, and because it is low some FFLs might be unwilling to conduct ammo transfers.
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So basically no more private transfers of unopened Winchester 555 .22lr.
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- Rich |
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Last edited by auffie.hk; 02-19-2018 at 8:44 PM.. Reason: Update noting correction by another member to stop propagation of incorrect info. |
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An FFL 03 is a collector, not a dealer.
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Anchors Aweigh |
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Certainly not different than having the Long Gun and Handgun sales area.
Thanks for reviving this!
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“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” — Robert A. Heinlein “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds” — Samuel Adams |
#20
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So between my wife and myself we have 1000rds of ammo and want to sell it to one individual. So she sell her 500 and I sell my 500 each as completely separate transactions (through an FFL) and the individual takes home a total of 1000rds of ammo he bought in two separate transactions. Got to love laws that do nothing but make honest people have to jump through hoops because we all know the bad guys will too.
Last edited by HiveDR.; 02-19-2018 at 10:16 PM.. |
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Sadly this has almost nothing to do with the bad guys or crime.
Its the FTB. They want their 8% which they have been missing out on. They got this submitted under false pretenses. Safety concerns plays better than the state doing a money grab. I can understand it on new incoming, but it was made very transparent by them placing the restriction on private sellers limited to 500 per month. Screams money grab. Ammo venders have to have a sellers license and register with the FTB. They give a rip if 5K rounds thru vendor ends up doing bad things, as long as they get their cut. Since checks are not operational the current regs do absolutely zero to prevent crime. All it does is get them their money now. |
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What about this?
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...r=1.&article=2. 30312. (a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor. (2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title. (b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part. (c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following: (1) An authorized law enforcement representative of a city, county, city and county, or state or federal government, if the sale, delivery, or transfer is for exclusive use by that government agency and, prior to the sale, delivery, or transfer of the ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee is obtained, identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual. (2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer’s duties. (3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. (4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450) of Chapter 6 of Division 6 of this title. (5) A person whose licensed premises are outside this state and who is licensed as a dealer or collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. (6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710. (7) An ammunition vendor. (8) A consultant-evaluator. (9) A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facility’s premises. (10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720. (11) A person enrolled in the basic training academy for peace officers or any other course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, an instructor of the academy or course, or a staff member of the academy or entity providing the course, who is purchasing the ammunition for the purpose of participation or use in the course. (d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
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#24
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Discussion of breaking the law or ways of getting away with it is a back stage pass to meet the banned.
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- Rich |
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#26
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Its fairly accepted / common knowledge that a 03/COE is excempt from purchase restrictions, where they are the recipient. Are you really asking if that is a global exemption including the selling and being the one who transfers to another person?
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I think most individuals are not accepting this. I have both FFL03 + COE and was trying to buy some ammo and the seller still telling me to meet him at an FFL
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I was referring to the legal situation as that is the question and the exemption is clear.
But like any law, No one is saying anything about the man on the street and their understanding. Just like we have shops that wont ship to us in CA like LAX. You cant fix stupid I wanted to clarify what was being asked as the exemption seems a given. But I dont read it as card blanche to act as an ammo vendor as some can take that snippet or may want to. Though it would be great. At the end of the day all this crap is all about CA wanting their tax, nothing else. The Problem is becoming gun shops that are refusing to let folks do transfers. Once that told me they would do it last month are not anymore. Using DOJ audits as an excuse. |
#29
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For instance if I were looking for a vendor who sells match grade .308, or 6.5cm, or stocks CCI Minimag. It would be nice to know which stores in, say the East Bay, carry a good selection of each caliber. I think finding a good selection of ammo is going to be much harder than just finding who carries 55gr 5.56. Would a separate thread where forum members can share names and locations of good ammo stores work? IDK
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C'mon man, shouldn't we ban Democracks from Cal-Guns? Or at least send them to re-education camps. |
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It also gives me an idea for a community thread here in the Sales section.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. |
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How are your FFLs doing this? I contacted 3 FFLs in my area and all of them said they are not doing private party ammo transfers and that the DOJ has not even set up the required website that the FFL is supposed to upload the information to
Can anyone confirm FFLs have the ability to process these transactions? |
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There are some discussions is the FFL's forum which may shed some light from the FFLs' perspective. The second thread may be a bit out of date, but is still informative.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1428022 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1410115 |
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The law does not specify "sales" Same as firearms
__________________
- Rich |
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OK, I read thru the above posts and Googled the issue(s). Ive contacted 3 local FFLs and received this: 1. We will charge $2.00/box and a 20% total value fee, 2. We don't do ammo transfers, 3. According to the regulations, you can give the ammo to a relative, friend, shooting buddy without going thru an FFL.
I have ~2k rounds of 45 I want to get rid of before I move out of state - and honestly need advice. Thanks in advance for the help. |
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#40
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From Kes's OP
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[1]....Was a standardized fee set? [2]....What are other "applicable fees" and how much are they? [3]....Since DOJ now requires a BGC for ammo PPTs. Are FFL's required to do them just like firearm PPTs? |
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