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  #1  
Old 07-24-2016, 3:13 PM
moooboy moooboy is offline
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Default 80% AR pistols and new laws???

So, this old thread brings up some new questions about what to do with 80% AR pistols built within the days of SSE. Remove BB and weld flash hider? Remove FH and go with compensator? Dros as is?
?????

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=580226
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 3:57 PM
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Use a BB Reloaded

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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post

”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2016, 4:01 PM
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Or you can register it as an AW and do what you like with it (within the confines of the NFA of course).
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Who uses 9mm for SD? Anything less than a 50BMG is stupid to use. Personally, I prefer canister rounds out of a 10lb Parrott rifle for SD.
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Old 07-24-2016, 4:08 PM
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Hammerhead grip?
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2016, 4:15 PM
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Srsly? Not on a pistol.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2016, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimentalist View Post
Or you can register it as an AW and do what you like with it (within the confines of the NFA of course).
it or them? lol
so i can ditch the BB, register as AW and must change the a2 break to a compensator?, does it have to be welded?
thanks

Last edited by moooboy; 07-24-2016 at 4:23 PM..
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2016, 4:43 PM
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The handgun AW flowchart is hugely helpful. You can find it here: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

Basically you can run flash hiders, muzzle brakes, no bullet button... use whatever magazines you want (assuming the normal cap ban gets challenged and you had them prior to 2001). Read that flow chart carefully. Vertical forward grips are still a "no-no", along with a number of other things (e.g. you can't go full auto without the proper tax stamps obviously). Of course you'll need to mark your lower receiver according to ATF specification.

Registration gives you a *lot* of freedom.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Who uses 9mm for SD? Anything less than a 50BMG is stupid to use. Personally, I prefer canister rounds out of a 10lb Parrott rifle for SD.
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2016, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimentalist View Post
The handgun AW flowchart is hugely helpful. You can find it here: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

Basically you can run flash hiders, muzzle brakes, no bullet button... use whatever magazines you want (assuming the normal cap ban gets challenged and you had them prior to 2001). Read that flow chart carefully. Vertical forward grips are still a "no-no", along with a number of other things (e.g. you can't go full auto without the proper tax stamps obviously). Of course you'll need to mark your lower receiver according to ATF specification.

Registration gives you a *lot* of freedom.
Ya i got cha, thanks for the info. I was cringing at the fact i have a registered preban bushmaster and several dozen high caps from prior to 2000 which i could use if the laws dictates, instead of disposing of them(or dismantling them). I hate throwing away money, really gripes me big bother would even ask. That flow chart is completely confusing, looks like government doc if i have ever seen one, lol.
thanks for the help.

Last edited by moooboy; 07-24-2016 at 5:20 PM..
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2016, 5:48 PM
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Can't you just chop the barrel and crown it? Then it's not a AW and you can use a normal mag release...

sent from deep within a tomato field
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2016, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandgrower View Post
Can't you just chop the barrel and crown it? Then it's not a AW and you can use a normal mag release...

sent from deep within a tomato field
How do you chop down a 7.5" barrel and why would you?
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2016, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moooboy View Post
How do you chop down a 7.5" barrel and why would you?
Just chop the threads off with a hacksaw, and recrown. No threads=no aw or bullet button.

Not saying shorten, but just enough to make a crown

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  #12  
Old 07-24-2016, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandgrower View Post
Just chop the threads off with a hacksaw, and recrown. No threads=no aw or bullet button.

Not saying shorten, but just enough to make a crown

sent from deep within a tomato field
is it that simple? i can live without a threaded barrel.
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2016, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moooboy View Post
is it that simple? i can live without a threaded barrel.
Idk for sure but according to that flow chart, flow chart and what I've read but

I'm not a lawyer either

Edit: I'm wrong. Have to do fixed mag or do the dirty with the gov
sent from deep within a tomato field

Last edited by islandgrower; 07-24-2016 at 7:40 PM..
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2016, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandgrower View Post
Just chop the threads off with a hacksaw, and recrown. No threads=no aw or bullet button.

Not saying shorten, but just enough to make a crown

sent from deep within a tomato field
You need to look at the AW Handgun flow chart again. An AR pattern pistol is always an AW without a fixed magazine. (Based on the law today)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post

”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #15  
Old 07-24-2016, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
You need to look at the AW Handgun flow chart again. An AR pattern pistol is always an AW without a fixed magazine. (Based on the law today)

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Thanks. I'm wrong, can't do that because the magazine doesn't go through the pistol grip.

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  #16  
Old 07-25-2016, 7:22 AM
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So what is the timeline all these new things need to be done? Once they are passed? I would guess sometime in 2017?
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  #17  
Old 07-26-2016, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moooboy View Post
So what is the timeline all these new things need to be done? Once they are passed? I would guess sometime in 2017?
The new definition for a "fixed magazine" goes into effect on 01-01-2017.

Before 01-01-2018, one of the following options must be done:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Replace the "bullet button" maglock with a maglock that does not allow the magazine to be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... ARMagLock & BB Reloaded)
C. Install a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example. Franklin Armory DFM)
D. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
E. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
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  #18  
Old 07-26-2016, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The new definition for a "fixed magazine" goes into effect on 01-01-2017.

Before 01-01-2018, one of the following options must be done:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Replace the "bullet button" maglock with a maglock that does not allow the magazine to be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... ARMagLock & BB Reloaded)
C. Install a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example. Franklin Armory DFM)
D. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
E. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
Thank You Sir!
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  #19  
Old 07-26-2016, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimentalist View Post
Or you can register it as an AW and do what you like with it (within the confines of the NFA of course).
This.

While yes, you are subjecting yourself to the whims of the CA RAW system, it does (if they don't move the bar again) mean a lot more latitude for what you are able to do within the confines of NFA with an AR pistol... e.g. fully featured (pistol) sans bullet button. The only limit for us moving forward, barring other changes, is that we'll be limited to 10-round mags.

Honestly, despite the downsides, the RAW thing for AR pistols in CA are arguably game changing for how practical they can be as compact "truck gun" or what have you...

Last edited by scootle; 07-26-2016 at 7:40 PM..
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Old 07-26-2016, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The new definition for a "fixed magazine" goes into effect on 01-01-2017.

Before 01-01-2018, one of the following options must be done:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Replace the "bullet button" maglock with a maglock that does not allow the magazine to be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... ARMagLock & BB Reloaded)
C. Install a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example. Franklin Armory DFM)
D. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
E. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
Quiet with the excellent and very clear info as always... Is this post stickied somewhere for continued reference? The questions will continue to be endless between here and there...
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Old 07-26-2016, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
Quiet with the excellent and very clear info as always... Is this post stickied somewhere for continued reference? The questions will continue to be endless between here and there...
here you go, its what i use,save any webpage to pdf on your computor.
http://webpagetopdf.com/
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2016, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimentalist View Post
Or you can register it as an AW and do what you like with it (within the confines of the NFA of course).
This.

While yes, you are subjecting yourself to the whims of the CA RAW system, it does (if they don't move the bar again) mean a lot more latitude for what you are able to do within the confines of NFA with an AR pistol... e.g. fully featured (pistol) sans bullet button. The only limit for us moving forward, barring other changes, is that we'll be limited to 10-round mags.

Honestly, despite the downsides, the RAW thing for AR pistols in CA are arguably game changing for how practical they can be as compact "truck gun" or what have you...
No go on a RAW being a "trunk gun".

RAWs can only be legally possessed in specific locations authorized by CA laws and can only be legally transported directly to & from those specific locations. [PC 30945]

Authorized locations:
A. On the registered owner's private property or on another person's private property with written permission to do so. [PC 30945(a)]
B. While at a target range ran by a public or private shooting club/organization. [PC 30945(b)]
C. While at a licensed target range. [PC 30945(c)]
D. While at F&G licensed shooting club. [PC 30945(d)]
E. While at a LE sponsored/approved educational event. [PC 30945(e)]
F. While on public land with authorization from the Gov agency that manages that land. [PC 30945(f)]
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2016, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandgrower View Post
Can't you just chop the barrel and crown it? Then it's not a AW and you can use a normal mag release...

sent from deep within a tomato field
No, because a magazine outside the grip is a defining evil feature. A "featureless" AR pistol without a bullet button is not legally possible today, and the bullet button will no longer be enough because the law changes from having the capacity to accept a detachable magazine to not having a fixed magazine.

Quote:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-26-2016 at 7:51 PM..
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  #24  
Old 07-26-2016, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
No go on a RAW being a "trunk gun".

RAWs can only be legally possessed in specific locations authorized by CA laws and can only be legally transported directly to & from those specific locations. [PC 30945]

Authorized locations:
A. On the registered owner's private property or on another person's private property with written permission to do so. [PC 30945(a)]
B. While at a target range ran by a public or private shooting club/organization. [PC 30945(b)]
C. While at a licensed target range. [PC 30945(c)]
D. While at F&G licensed shooting club. [PC 30945(d)]
E. While at a LE sponsored/approved educational event. [PC 30945(e)]
F. While on public land with authorization from the Gov agency that manages that land. [PC 30945(f)]
Ahhh... thanks for that... less the trunk gun and more the house gun then.

That said... "transportation to and from" is always a pretty wide avenue for interpretation... do we need to carry around a letter from our friend stating we are allowed to transport the RAW to their home?

PS I wonder how this might affect firearms trainers and their class setups... will they need additional paperwork to accommodate all the incoming RAWs if the host range doesn't have everything squared away?

Last edited by scootle; 07-26-2016 at 9:52 PM..
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Old 07-26-2016, 9:49 PM
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Thanks Quite
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  #26  
Old 07-27-2016, 1:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
That said... "transportation to and from" is always a pretty wide avenue for interpretation... do we need to carry around a letter from our friend stating we are allowed to transport the RAW to their home?
Transport needs to be directly to and from. No side trips or extended stops.
People have been arrested, jailed, and prosecuted for not transporting their RAWs directly to and from authorized locations.

In order to be fully covered, your friend will need to provide you with written permission (dated & signed) for you to bring and possess your RAW on his property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
PS I wonder how this might affect firearms trainers and their class setups... will they need additional paperwork to accommodate all the incoming RAWs if the host range doesn't have everything squared away?
Nope.
No written permission needed to go to a range.
Written permission needed to go to another person's private property.
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Old 07-27-2016, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Nope.
No written permission needed to go to a range.
Written permission needed to go to another person's private property.
Yeah I was more wondering along the lines of trainers who use private property for their class venues rather than established public ranges.

Always a minefield with this stuff. Don't get pulled over.
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  #28  
Old 07-27-2016, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
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.....

Don't get pulled over.
That's my moto. Don't give them a reason to pull you over and you should never have any problems. (Should)

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”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2016, 2:59 PM
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I got some dfm magazines on hands .. time to look for some local cnc shop
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  #30  
Old 07-27-2016, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
......the RAW thing for AR pistols in CA are arguably game changing for how practical they can be as compact "truck gun" or what have you...
No truck gun cause RAW must only be transported between home and range, etc., correct?
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  #31  
Old 07-27-2016, 3:57 PM
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No truck gun cause RAW must only be transported between home and range, etc., correct?
Yes.
See Post #26 in this thread.
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