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  #1  
Old 07-02-2011, 10:00 PM
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Angry California Internet Sales Tax and Reloading Supplies

It's too early to tell but, I strongly suspect California Shooters are in for a big surprize. Gov. "Moonbeam" and his Socialist Central Committee in Sacramento now require out-of-state internet stores to collect California Sales Tax. For example, if you buy primers, bullets or, powder from a store in Kansas City, they will have to charge California Sales Tax and forward it to Sacramento. I suspect many stores will quit selling to California.

Amazon has already terminated internet sales to California. Same thing happened in Michigan.

I could be wrong but, I suspect we are in real touble as far as getting reloading supplies. Or anything else for that matter. Time will tell.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Waldog View Post

Amazon has already terminated internet sales to California. Same thing happened in Michigan.
.
I thought that Amazon was terminating it's affiliation with its businesses in California to get around the tax law? Which is still a loss for CA as it will be a loss of business. But I wasn't aware of anything regarding terminating internet sales to CA.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2011, 10:30 PM
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Noone has terminated internet sales.

Here's what actually happened:

The Supreme Court ruled a few years back that you could only force a company to collect sales tax for your locality if they had a physical presence in your state or locality.

California thinks it can somehow overrule this precedent simply by willing it so.

Amazon, to be on the safe side, has cut loose its California affiliates, that is, those who had pass through advertising, or sold their products through Amazon, so that there can be no question they have any physical presence here.

Thus, when I ordered from Amazon today, my shopping cart was not taxed. I received a thanks, and your order will ship shortly. There has been NO change in internet sales to California from Amazon. There will likely be no change from any other seller who understands the law.

What HAS happened is about 50k people in California just took a major income hit, California will collect no additional sales tax, and many businesses will move out of state, further depressing our tax collections.

California, the state too dumb to live.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:38 PM
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I guess our state borders will be open for commerce, they are violating trade rules between state commerse laws. Give all Tax Money to the Gun Friendly states let this bite Brown Shorts in the Behind. It will open the gates for boot legg ammo and it may become cheaper that before because the #1 purchasing state, Commiefornia will be locked out via web sales. Boot Legg Ammo, outlawing booze did not work? will this ***-embly Bill? Stipid is Stupid Does, right Forrest? Jerry Brown and His Weebles fit the description very well. Broke and going Broker from laws meant to kill revenue. He Does Stuoid therefore Is.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2011, 10:51 PM
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how the hell is gov. brown going to force companies in other states to collect tax on californias behalf?

Lol
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Waldog View Post
It's too early to tell but, I strongly suspect California Shooters are in for a big surprize. Gov. "Moonbeam" and his Socialist Central Committee in Sacramento now require out-of-state internet stores to collect California Sales Tax. For example, if you buy primers, bullets or, powder from a store in Kansas City, they will have to charge California Sales Tax and forward it to Sacramento. I suspect many stores will quit selling to California.

Amazon has already terminated internet sales to California. Same thing happened in Michigan.

I could be wrong but, I suspect we are in real touble as far as getting reloading supplies. Or anything else for that matter. Time will tell.
Your information is incorrect. Amazon will never terminate sales to California. Places will not stop sales to California.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2011, 11:48 PM
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Tax in my county is down 1%. I almost don't believe it, but our computers adjusted to it and everything at work.
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:50 PM
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You have it backwards. The Governor is trying to make it so all California based Internet businesses have to charge EVERYONE sales tax, rather than just charging California customers sales tax. The end result being people like me get run out of business all together. Because there is no way in hell somebody in Texas is going to buy from me and pay sales tax when he can pay less by buying from somebody in another state.

This has NOT happened yet. It is simply a proposal. That is all. It is not a law yet.

Amazon is firing a warning shot by take the action Briancnelson described in his post above. It is meant to help fire up Californian's and get them calling their representatives to complain and to give Brown a wake up call.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 07-02-2011 at 11:53 PM..
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:50 PM
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Your information is incorrect. Amazon will never terminate sales to California. Places will not stop sales to California.
exactly. California is too large an entity to ignore. i don't blame amazon for doing what it did.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:15 AM
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California, the state too dumb to live.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Briancnelson View Post
Noone has terminated internet sales.

Here's what actually happened:

The Supreme Court ruled a few years back that you could only force a company to collect sales tax for your locality if they had a physical presence in your state or locality.

California thinks it can somehow overrule this precedent simply by willing it so.

Amazon, to be on the safe side, has cut loose its California affiliates, that is, those who had pass through advertising, or sold their products through Amazon, so that there can be no question they have any physical presence here.

Thus, when I ordered from Amazon today, my shopping cart was not taxed. I received a thanks, and your order will ship shortly. There has been NO change in internet sales to California from Amazon. There will likely be no change from any other seller who understands the law.

What HAS happened is about 50k people in California just took a major income hit, California will collect no additional sales tax, and many businesses will move out of state, further depressing our tax collections.

California, the state too dumb to live.
Agree. We might as well all move out of state, put up a new boarder and give California to Mexico. Just cut the loose ends and walk away.

No one stand ups to the illegals, drug dealers, politicians. A real shame! In the end, were only to blame.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2011, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
You have it backwards. The Governor is trying to make it so all California based Internet businesses have to charge EVERYONE sales tax, rather than just charging California customers sales tax. The end result being people like me get run out of business all together. Because there is no way in hell somebody in Texas is going to buy from me and pay sales tax when he can pay less by buying from somebody in another state.

This has NOT happened yet. It is simply a proposal. That is all. It is not a law yet.

Amazon is firing a warning shot by take the action Briancnelson described in his post above. It is meant to help fire up Californian's and get them calling their representatives to complain and to give Brown a wake up call.
The budget was signed Thursday...it IS law...effective immediately upon signing. Check the LA Times here and this article from Search Engine Watch.

Apparently California really wants to lose tax dollars (i.e., income tax). Oh well, more proof this state is going down the crapper.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2011, 3:59 AM
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Agree. We might as well all move out of state, put up a new boarder and give California to Mexico. Just cut the loose ends and walk away.

No one stand ups to the illegals, drug dealers, politicians. A real shame! In the end, were only to blame.
I would rather see the other 49 states send in the Army and recapture Kalifornia, then push south and annex Mexico.
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  #14  
Old 07-03-2011, 5:31 AM
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They were trying to collect on if you have a physical store in CA or affiliates / subsidiaries in CA. Since Amazon cut off these small biz in CA, products will still ship from other states to CA without being taxed.

If you buy from out of state you still will not be taxed, you are suppose to report it on your own.

If you didnt know, CA lowered tax by 1%. what was 9.75% in Concord is now 8.75
Pittsburg walnut creek etc 8.25%
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2011, 5:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
You have it backwards. The Governor is trying to make it so all California based Internet businesses have to charge EVERYONE sales tax, rather than just charging California customers sales tax. The end result being people like me get run out of business all together. Because there is no way in hell somebody in Texas is going to buy from me and pay sales tax when he can pay less by buying from somebody in another state.

This has NOT happened yet. It is simply a proposal. That is all. It is not a law yet.

Amazon is firing a warning shot by take the action Briancnelson described in his post above. It is meant to help fire up Californian's and get them calling their representatives to complain and to give Brown a wake up call.
I'm confused!!! (Natural state for me) I can still buy from ABCD Bullet Company in Alabama , and as long as they do not have a presence in Ca, they will not charge CA tax, right? However, someone living in Wyoming buying Widgits from San Bernadino Widgit Company will have to pay Ca. sales tax??

Gov Moonbeam just signed a death certificate for many Ca. mail order companies.

It is LAW EFFECTIVE July 1. I know that 5 other states have the same law. Amazon cut ties with affiliates in those states AND THE TAX REVENUE WENT DOWN IN THOSE STATES. Way to go Moonbeam!!!!
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Last edited by Waldog; 07-03-2011 at 5:36 AM..
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2011, 7:05 AM
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Wow, glad to see so many Republicans on this liberal gun site! Usually threads like this end up becoming bickering wars there is so many liberals around here.

Keep voting "R" guys, that's about all we can do at this stage to help the battle.

I'm not moving out, so it's all I can do to stay sane.

These idiot politicians think they can do what ever they want when it comes to taxes. This is just one more example of it.

For all you guys that hang out here and don't vote straight "R," you're part of the problem. I'd bet that there are a few in this thread alone that voted for this idiot.
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Old 07-03-2011, 7:54 AM
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Tax in my county is down 1%. I almost don't believe it, but our computers adjusted to it and everything at work.
Just like Y2K.

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Old 07-03-2011, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Waldog View Post
I'm confused!!! (Natural state for me) I can still buy from ABCD Bullet Company in Alabama , and as long as they do not have a presence in Ca, they will not charge CA tax, right? However, someone living in Wyoming buying Widgits from San Bernadino Widgit Company will have to pay Ca. sales tax??

Gov Moonbeam just signed a death certificate for many Ca. mail order companies.

It is LAW EFFECTIVE July 1. I know that 5 other states have the same law. Amazon cut ties with affiliates in those states AND THE TAX REVENUE WENT DOWN IN THOSE STATES. Way to go Moonbeam!!!!
Still not correct. If the company has an affiliate in California they are required to collect California sales tax if the purchaser also resides in California. Period.

If you live outside of California and buy something from a California company you do not pay sales tax. Bottom lines is this, if you reside in the same state as the company, you pay sales tax (the business collects it on behalf of the state) otherwise you don't (er... it is your responsibility to claim it on your annual state taxes (yeah right )
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Old 07-03-2011, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
You have it backwards. The Governor is trying to make it so all California based Internet businesses have to charge EVERYONE sales tax, rather than just charging California customers sales tax. The end result being people like me get run out of business all together. Because there is no way in hell somebody in Texas is going to buy from me and pay sales tax when he can pay less by buying from somebody in another state.

This has NOT happened yet. It is simply a proposal. That is all. It is not a law yet.

Amazon is firing a warning shot by take the action Briancnelson described in his post above. It is meant to help fire up Californian's and get them calling their representatives to complain and to give Brown a wake up call.

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Old 07-03-2011, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Wow, glad to see so many Republicans on this liberal gun site! Usually threads like this end up becoming bickering wars there is so many liberals around here.

Keep voting "R" guys, that's about all we can do at this stage to help the battle.

I'm not moving out, so it's all I can do to stay sane.

These idiot politicians think they can do what ever they want when it comes to taxes. This is just one more example of it.

For all you guys that hang out here and don't vote straight "R," you're part of the problem. I'd bet that there are a few in this thread alone that voted for this idiot.
Well I don't think anyone likes paying tax or losing the top all time money saving internet ordering company amazon.
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Old 07-03-2011, 1:44 PM
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Still not correct. If the company has an affiliate in California they are required to collect California sales tax if the purchaser also resides in California. Period.

If you live outside of California and buy something from a California company you do not pay sales tax. Bottom lines is this, if you reside in the same state as the company, you pay sales tax (the business collects it on behalf of the state) otherwise you don't (er... it is your responsibility to claim it on your annual state taxes (yeah right )
This is correct.

That's why they cut loose the affiliates, because California was prepared to argue that someone just ADVERTISING on your behalf who lived in the state constituted a physical presence. Thus requiring Amazon to collect sales tax on California residents. Amazon responded the way they have every time a state tried this, and simply cut the program, leaving the poor communist state legislature floundering around in its own stupidity, and a lot of people desiring to move to another state or open a corporation in Nevada so they can regain their income stream.
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Old 07-03-2011, 3:26 PM
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We carpool with a group of friends to Reno and buy bulk ammo. Screw California.
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Old 07-03-2011, 4:07 PM
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If this goes through I have two friends who will be loosing their businesses...
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Old 07-03-2011, 4:15 PM
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We carpool with a group of friends to Reno and buy bulk ammo. Screw California.
I am tired of being taxed left and right by Sac politicians! Sign me up for the van pool to Reno shopping trips.
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Old 07-03-2011, 4:20 PM
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If this goes through I have two friends who will be loosing their businesses...
It already went through...
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Old 07-03-2011, 4:21 PM
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We carpool with a group of friends to Reno and buy bulk ammo. Screw California.
If you import anything from out of state and you did not pay California sales taxx on it, it is subject to an excise tax. This is nothing new. There has been a place to declare these purchases on your state income tax form for decades. Not declaring these purchases is nothing short of tax evasion. Tax evasion is not hard to prove. Remember that it was the only crime Al Capone was ever convicted of and he did hard time for it. So, keep posting about your carpools on an open form. I'm sure that you and your friends have always declared these purchases, right?
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Old 07-03-2011, 4:51 PM
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I still laugh at how this country was built to have no taxes. Yet we have stupid bs taxes added every year and the gov spends it worse than the king ever did
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Old 07-03-2011, 6:40 PM
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Still not correct. If the company has an affiliate in California they are required to collect California sales tax if the purchaser also resides in California. Period.

If you live outside of California and buy something from a California company you do not pay sales tax. Bottom lines is this, if you reside in the same state as the company, you pay sales tax (the business collects it on behalf of the state) otherwise you don't (er... it is your responsibility to claim it on your annual state taxes (yeah right )
I told you confusion was my natural state!! Thanks for clearing it up. I still suspect that Ca online sellers are going to suffer. And, I'd bet there will be more companies moving out of the state. I stand by my original cheer; "Way to go Moonebeam!!!"
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Old 07-05-2011, 9:17 AM
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So after reading the rules (or USA Today article) I understand it like this - if we (hkparts.net) pay a California affiliate (Calguns.net) to sell product / advertise (ie discussion board and classified section) then we will have to start collecting sales tax.

"An 'affiliate' is a website with advertising that links buyers to sites."

I don't really feel that it hurts our business as long as everyone does it. Then we play on equal ground.
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Old 07-05-2011, 9:34 AM
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HK... And then the shoppers will go find another site that does not charge sales tax and save 8%-9%. I know that I would. Oh, and of course I would put it on my annual tax form for the state.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:59 AM
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HK... And then the shoppers will go find another site that does not charge sales tax and save 8%-9%. I know that I would. Oh, and of course I would put it on my annual tax form for the state.
Yup
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:29 AM
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If you import anything from out of state and you did not pay California sales taxx on it, it is subject to an excise tax. This is nothing new. There has been a place to declare these purchases on your state income tax form for decades. Not declaring these purchases is nothing short of tax evasion. Tax evasion is not hard to prove. Remember that it was the only crime Al Capone was ever convicted of and he did hard time for it. So, keep posting about your carpools on an open form. I'm sure that you and your friends have always declared these purchases, right?
FUD! Pure FUD!

I'm well aware of that "place to declare these purchases on your state income tax". I'm equally aware that it's unenforceable because it's unconstitutional.

US Constitution, Section 9:

Quote:
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
I don't need a black robed dictator to interpret that simple statement any more than I need the 2nd amendment "interpreted", thank you very much.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul_R View Post
FUD! Pure FUD!

I'm well aware of that "place to declare these purchases on your state income tax". I'm equally aware that it's unenforceable because it's unconstitutional.

US Constitution, Section 9:



I don't need a black robed dictator to interpret that simple statement any more than I need the 2nd amendment "interpreted", thank you very much.
I don't know how or why you think that a state can't charge a tax on things IMPORTED (not "exported") into it. Or, are you trying to tell me that all sales taxes which are collected for anything ever exported from another state are unconstitutional? Also, when it comes to "FUD", my post clearly stated that there is and has been a place to declare "items IMPORTED into the state" for many years. You even agreed with me. I don't see where the FUD is. Just because you don't agree with the policy and feel it is illegal doesn't mean my statement contained a bit of "FUD". Or, am I missing something?
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Old 07-05-2011, 1:05 PM
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Default The bottom line

And a little more constitutional backup!

States, especially the PRK, are hurting for cash and don't give a rat's donkey how unconstitutional their laws are, so freely step on rights thinking there is little the average person can do about it (but see link below). The fed constitution clearly says:

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

Article I

Section 9.
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

Section 10.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any
Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely
necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of
all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall
be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws
shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.



So even if Congress were to authorize states to collect sales tax across state lines by calling it an import or export duty, the money would have to be handed over to the feds, not Sacramento, without a constitutional amendment.

The real bottom line is it is up to "we the people" to stop guv (fed, state, county, city, whatever) from enacting or enforcing unconstitutional laws. There is more than one way to vote "No" to such unconstitutional acts. Just plain old voting the rascals out doesn't seem to carry much weight in lib states like the PRK because we are overwhelmed with a lot of gullible followers of the left wing promises of utopia, more appropriately called useful idiots. We can always vote with our feet, but that is usually highly disruptive, or we can vote with our wallets, but we may end up hurting the neighborhood gun store more than Sacramento. I guess you could say Amazon has chosen to vote with their feet and wallet! But there is one more vote that carries far more weight than any of the above when it comes to throwing out unconstitutional laws, but too few people know enough about it. Read at least the first section of this link and you'll be in the know! Just what part of "shall not be infringed" do politicians not understand anyway?
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Old 07-05-2011, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I don't know how or why you think that a state can't charge a tax on things IMPORTED (not "exported") into it. Or, are you trying to tell me that all sales taxes which are collected for anything ever exported from another state are unconstitutional? Also, when it comes to "FUD", my post clearly stated that there is and has been a place to declare "items IMPORTED into the state" for many years. You even agreed with me. I don't see where the FUD is. Just because you don't agree with the policy and feel it is illegal doesn't mean my statement contained a bit of "FUD". Or, am I missing something?
I know you're smarter than that so I'll just let it pass....


Bottom line: If it were legal and constitutional you can bet your a** they would be enforcing it. The only reason they're not is because they can't!

But hey if you're feeling charitable by all means claim that purchase!
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Old 07-05-2011, 2:14 PM
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I know you're smarter than that so I'll just let it pass....


Bottom line: If it were legal and constitutional you can bet your a** they would be enforcing it. The only reason they're not is because they can't!

But hey if you're feeling charitable by all means claim that purchase!
I guess I'm not as smart as you think. I still don't see the "Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt" in my post. The question of it being constitutional or not does not change the fact that the state has had this implimented for decades. Can you please explain why you think I'm spreading FUD?
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Old 07-05-2011, 2:45 PM
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Weren't some people getting audited for not filling in that section after making some "High Dollar" purchases? Probably just scare tactics I guess?
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Old 07-05-2011, 2:57 PM
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Weren't some people getting audited for not filling in that section after making some "High Dollar" purchases? Probably just scare tactics I guess?
Letters were sent from the BOE to businesses and professionals with high incomes telling them to review their purchases for the previous 3 years and pay any "use tax" if they owed any and hinted at the possibility of an audit for failure to comply. Yes, scare tactics.

Last edited by Paul_R; 07-05-2011 at 4:16 PM..
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Old 07-05-2011, 3:07 PM
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iirc you don't have to pay taxes on any gifts right? so just get someone out of state to buy something for you as a gift, then bring it back as usual. (give buddy one of those visa gift credit cards since those aren't taxed and exchanging gifts between two friends is legal)

no more worrying about getting caught on tax evasion if you are that paranoid about it.
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