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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2019, 7:56 AM
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Default Best sharpening method

Electric or stone? What do you guys recommend?
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2019, 7:59 AM
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It depends on several things

How much time do you want to spend sharpening knives?
How much time do you want to spend to learn to hold an angle?
Do you cut in the kitchen only on a cutting board?
I mean only- never on a plate

Does your significant other need to use the sharpener?


The Ken Onion belt sharpener is stupid simple

Stones take a lot more time to learn the correct method

Kits like lansky are very affordable

The two more expensive kits would be edge pro and wicked edge


If you are younger, learning to sharpen with stones is a great skill

A friend wanted sharp knives but did not want to spend the time or money for the edge pro kit- $300-$400

He is happy with the men onion kit




So tell us more about
What knife you will be sharpening or if you will end up sharpening all of your relatives knives every Easter / thanksgiving/ family dinner.
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Last edited by hermosabeach; 02-21-2019 at 8:05 AM..
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2019, 8:01 AM
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Stone for me, but Im going to try the Wicked Edge system I think.
I have my blades locally sharpened when I have time since its cheap and they do a great job but having the ability to keep a sharp edge at home whenever I want would be awesome...
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Old 02-21-2019, 8:24 AM
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I use stone
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:40 AM
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Stone all the way. Found some quality stones well over a century old in estate sales and on Ebay. More time consuming and there is an art to it, but the edge produced is awesome.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2019, 7:03 PM
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Spyderco Sharpmaker, get the optional extra fine stones, under $90 shipped for the unit and extra stones.

Steels maintain the edge, stones reshapes the edge and removes metal, I steel my knives maybe 5 times more than I stone them. You don't have to be fancy like the Chef below with a steel, just a few slow passes on each side at a 15 to 20-degree angle is all it should take, if that doesn't work get out the Sharpmaker.

Friedr. Dick's Dickoron steels are some of the best in the world, typically 66 HRC, this is a good video on their steels, I use their Sapphire series steels,




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Old 02-21-2019, 7:19 PM
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I've used stones my whole life. I bought the Lansky system late last year, is the best that I have used.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2019, 7:47 PM
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I use a warthog honing device to keep mine scalpel sharp.

https://wisementrading.com/knifes-an...fe-sharpeners/
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Old 02-21-2019, 8:00 PM
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Lately I have just been using whatever is around... the bottom of a ceramic coffee mug and the other day I used the edge of my vehicles glass window and it put a quick workable sharp edge in no time.

Even if you have a professional sharpener it's good to practice this once or twice ( maybe with your lower price knives at first ) in case you're in the field with a dull tool (or the zombie apocalypse comes). This method is really not for a knife with a folded / rolled edge or in very bad condition, it's more like a glass sharpening rod for polishing the edge.


https://youtu.be/zleVA9yxdm8

Last edited by sealocan; 02-21-2019 at 8:06 PM..
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2019, 9:43 PM
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^^River Rock in a pinch

Bottom of a mug or coffee cup is a good one, any ceramic plate or bowl with a unglazed foot will have a raw edge you can use,, the finer the china (porcelain vs. vitrified china) the higher the grit. Grandma’s fine Lenox china is a higher grit clay on a raw edge (under the glaze) than Mom’s Homer Laughlin Fiesta Ware, porcelain vs. vitrified respectively.
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YES! OAKLAND SUCKS! STAY AWAY! Seriously it'll kill you *dead*! There are people that LOOK different than you! They eat strange FOOD and do WEIRD THINGS for ENTERTAINMENT! There are... bees... and small dogs.. and people on bicycles.. and the streets run RED... with bbq sauce.

STAY AWAY FROM OAKLAND!

Last edited by MeatyMac; 02-23-2019 at 8:13 AM..
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2019, 2:23 PM
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Stone. I'm cheap. I'll have to try the mug trick though.

Let me ask this as a follow up: what's your standard for sharpness? I can get decent steel like 154cm to shave my arm hair and go through relatively taut magazine paper. All of that's to say I think I'm decent with a whet stone but no doubt could improve.
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Old 03-01-2019, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomk556 View Post
what's your standard for sharpness?
I usually have cherry tomatoes somewhere in the kitchen. After a few minutes on the stones, I check to see how thin I can slice them.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2019, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by racinjason233 View Post
I use a warthog honing device to keep mine scalpel sharp.

https://wisementrading.com/knifes-an...fe-sharpeners/
Even my wife can sharpen knives
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2019, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by castgold View Post
I usually have cherry tomatoes somewhere in the kitchen. After a few minutes on the stones, I check to see how thin I can slice them.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
I'll have to grab a few tonight to see. haha I rarely cook but own Shun knives
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2019, 7:35 PM
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Depends on the knife and its grind
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2019, 7:50 PM
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I have 4 stones ranging from 400 to 8000 grit but I want to get the sharpmaker since I have recently picked up two 3 recurve blades that flat stones won't work on... I'm thinking of a sharpmaker next for them.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2019, 7:53 PM
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Look for a sale on the Ken Onion WorkSharp knife sharpener.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2019, 8:16 PM
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Many years ago I bought a lansky with extra stones. It did a decent job but I got tired of having to use the clamp and the mess of the oil. I then bought the Spyderco sharpmaker which I have used for about 20 years to which I recently added the CBN rods.

I got a bee in my bonnet and decide to look at freehand sharpening. After lots of agonizing I bought the IB8 Norton combo India stone figuring that it's cheap enough to see if I was able to freehand. It took some time but I seem to have got it right using small amounts of mineral oil.

I then made a couple of strops, one smooth side up and one rough side up with green compound. I was happy with the results but found the edges a little toothy. Again I agonized forever before buying the 2k Shapton Pro KO703 hoping that it was not too much of a jump from the India stone. Taking the knives from the India stone to this and then to the strop has made a huge difference to the quality of the edges.

I also recently made a huge 12" bench strop with rubber base that also made stropping easier then the paddle strop.





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  #19  
Old 03-02-2019, 1:47 AM
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The edge pro is great, especially if you want to try different edge angles.

It also lets you sharpen tired, without good focus
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2019, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbo View Post
Many years ago I bought a lansky with extra stones. It did a decent job but I got tired of having to use the clamp and the mess of the oil. I then bought the Spyderco sharpmaker which I have used for about 20 years to which I recently added the CBN rods.

I got a bee in my bonnet and decide to look at freehand sharpening. After lots of agonizing I bought the IB8 Norton combo India stone figuring that it's cheap enough to see if I was able to freehand. It took some time but I seem to have got it right using small amounts of mineral oil.

I then made a couple of strops, one smooth side up and one rough side up with green compound. I was happy with the results but found the edges a little toothy. Again I agonized forever before buying the 2k Shapton Pro KO703 hoping that it was not too much of a jump from the India stone. Taking the knives from the India stone to this and then to the strop has made a huge difference to the quality of the edges.

I also recently made a huge 12" bench strop with rubber base that also made stropping easier then the paddle strop.





I've always stopped on leather but last week I tried a rubber infused cork strop with a dried liquid green emulsion compound and it's better than leather...Not much better, just a little, but it might be the liquid emulsion compound, I want to try it on a leather strop but I'll need to get a new strop to do it.

Have you ever tried Flitz liquid polish on a leather strop? It really shines up the edge...




Quote:
Originally Posted by tomk556 View Post
Let me ask this as a follow up: what's your standard for sharpness? I can get decent steel like 154cm to shave my arm hair and go through relatively taut magazine paper. All of that's to say I think I'm decent with a whet stone but no doubt could improve.
I rarely sharpen to 'Scary Sharp" but when I do I finish with a ~ 8000 grit natural Japanese wet stone and a strop.

Switch to newspaper...Take a full two-sided sheet of newspaper and cut it onto 4 squares about 18" x 14", when you can cut 2" sections off the 14" side in one stroke with a 10" Chef's you have a sharp *** knife, when you can slice off 2" sections of the 18" side in one stroke w/a 10" Chef's you have a sharper knife...Approaching Scary Sharp...

I'm not sure how to test "Scary Sharp”, it has a feel when you move your thumb perpendicularly across it, gives me the "Scary Sharp" willies sometimes...


Mac
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YES! OAKLAND SUCKS! STAY AWAY! Seriously it'll kill you *dead*! There are people that LOOK different than you! They eat strange FOOD and do WEIRD THINGS for ENTERTAINMENT! There are... bees... and small dogs.. and people on bicycles.. and the streets run RED... with bbq sauce.

STAY AWAY FROM OAKLAND!

Last edited by MeatyMac; 03-05-2019 at 4:22 AM..
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2019, 3:02 PM
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Hi Mac.
I have not tried flitz but will give it a try. I have plenty of strops!
I do prep the leather before making a strop. Wetting it, rolling it for 5 or 6 minutes and then letting it dry. It really firms up the leather and supposedly brings the natural silicates to the surface.
Right now I can get a very reflective edge just going from he 2k stone to the strops.

I look forward to trying out your newspaper tests.
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Old 03-02-2019, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saki302 View Post
The edge pro is great, especially if you want to try different edge angles.

It also lets you sharpen tired, without good focus
What's the set-up like? Do you soak the stones before using or apply water while moving the stone over the edge or do you use an oil?
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Old 03-02-2019, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
I've always stopped on leather but last week I tried a rubber infused cork strop with a dried liquid green emulsion compound and it's better than leather...Not much better, just a little, but it might be the liquid emulsion compound, I want to try it on a leather strop but I'll need to get a new strop to do it.

Have you ever tried Flitz liquid polish on a leather strop? It really shines up the edge...






I rarely sharpen to 'Scary Sharp" but when I do I finish with a ~ 8000 grit natural Japanese wet stone and a strop.

Switch to newspaper...Take a full two-sided sheet of newspaper and cut it onto 4 squares about 18" x 14", when you can cut 2" sections off the 14" side in one stroke with a 10" Chef's you have a sharp *** knife, when you can slice off 2" sections of the 18" side in one stroke w/a 10" Chef's you have a sharper knife...Approaching Scary Sharp...

I'm not sure how to test "Scary Sharpe", it has a feel when you move your thumb perpendicularly across it, gives me the "Scary Sharp" willies sometimes...


Mac
Interesting, thanks. I tried it and goes pretty well to 18" but no perfectly. I haven't figured out how to finish mine with the 8000 grit (mine might be 6000). What's the difference you see after you do the final honing on the 8000 or strop? I do some passes and I want to say the edge looks brighter, but I don't know that it cuts any better.
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Old 03-02-2019, 4:11 PM
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Interesting, thanks. I tried it and goes pretty well to 18" but no perfectly. I haven't figured out how to finish mine with the 8000 grit (mine might be 6000). What's the difference you see after you do the final honing on the 8000 or strop? I do some passes and I want to say the edge looks brighter, but I don't know that it cuts any better.
The edge hairs are so small after using a 8000 grit wet stone the strop isn't doing much if anything at all, but I still do it...

So if I'm going for "Scary Sharp" I'll use the ultra fine stones on the Spiderco Sharpmaker, then a 5000 grit wet stone then a 8000 wet stone then strop. The difference after using the 5000 & 8000 grit stones is newspaper folds away like butter, the cut is effortless without any slight jerks, it's a small difference but it's noticeable.

For those in the Bay Area I highly recommend Josh Donald's sharpening classes at Bernal Cutlery in San Francisco. Josh is a master knife sharpener, he wrote a great book on the subject called "Sharp: The Definitive Introduction to Knives, Sharpening, and Cutting Techniques", he sells it on his Website.

Here's Josh's sharpening class schedule, https://bernalcutlery.com/classes


Mac
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Old 03-02-2019, 4:20 PM
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I have been using a gatco edgemate system .& am really happy with it's consistency on a lot of different quality of blades .
Over the years I have lost my knack for sharpening with a stone .
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Old 03-02-2019, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
The edge hairs are so small after using a 8000 grit wet stone the strop isn't doing much if anything at all, but I still do it...

So if I'm going for "Scary Sharp" I'll use the ultra fine stones on the Spiderco Sharpmaker, then a 5000 grit wet stone then a 8000 wet stone then strop. The difference after using the 5000 & 8000 grit stones is newspaper folds away like butter, the cut is effortless without any slight jerks, it's a small difference but it's noticeable.

For those in the Bay Area I highly recommend Josh Donald's sharpening classes at Bernal Cutlery in San Francisco. Josh is a master knife sharpener, he wrote a great book on the subject called "Sharp: The Definitive Introduction to Knives, Sharpening, and Cutting Techniques", he sells it on his Website.

Here's Josh's sharpening class schedule, https://bernalcutlery.com/classes


Mac
Ah I think I've heard of him before. Maybe I'll spend an evening there some time- I am cautious about sharpening my japanese knives.=. I'll keep playing with my finer grit stone and see what I can figure out. One of my problems is I'll get bored and sharpen some pos throwing knife or something and expect halfway decent results haha.
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Old 03-02-2019, 5:31 PM
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So this knife, my wife's knife, it has her initials in the handle rivets, it's old J.A. Henckels before Zwilling got ahold of them, it was given to her in culinary school in '84, it's the sharpest western knife in our block, really scary sharp...



I hold the print with all my fingers and pinch the paper with my index finger and thumb next to where I start the slice, when it starts I don't have to move it much, it slices through the 21" length quickly, the 8" slicer passes through in one pass, no sawing.





Rubberized cork strop from Bernal Cutlery (I am not affiliated with them, just a customer)

Last edited by MeatyMac; 03-02-2019 at 6:23 PM..
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Old 03-02-2019, 6:09 PM
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I bought a Lansky set over 20 years ago and never felt that it needed to be replaced.
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Old 03-02-2019, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
So this knife, my wife's knife, it has her initials in the handle rivets, it's old J.A. Henckels before Zwilling got ahold of them, it was given to her in culinary school in '84, it's the sharpest western knife in our block, really scary sharp...



I hold the print with all my fingers and pinch the paper with my index finger and thumb next to where I start the slice, when it starts I don't have to move it much, it slices through the 21" length quickly, the 8" slicer passes through in one pass, no sawing.




Rubberized cork strop from Bernal Cutlery (I am not affiliated with them, just a customer)
Ahh okay, we're in business. I did a quick few passes with my 1000 grit and then about a minute on the side with a 6000 grit. I'm never good at starting the cuts, but once it grabs it'll go through the whole length with minimal moving (like an inch of blade). I'll have to read up on strops.

Appreciate the write ups and the proof of concept. I read about how people don't feel comfortable getting the angle by hand, or whatever, and always wondered if I was missing something. I'm sure I can improve my angle, but good to know I'm not in left field.
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tomk556 View Post
Ah I think I've heard of him before. Maybe I'll spend an evening there some time- I am cautious about sharpening my japanese knives.=. I'll keep playing with my finer grit stone and see what I can figure out. One of my problems is I'll get bored and sharpen some pos throwing knife or something and expect halfway decent results haha.
I've taken the first two of his sharpening classes, they're a lot of fun. I will go back for the Deba single bevel class as soon as he schedules a date for it.

I have yet to purchase my first Japanese style knife, I'm still researching which one I want first, I'm leaning towards a 240mm WA-GYUTO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomk556 View Post
Ahh okay, we're in business. I did a quick few passes with my 1000 grit and then about a minute on the side with a 6000 grit. I'm never good at starting the cuts, but once it grabs it'll go through the whole length with minimal moving (like an inch of blade). I'll have to read up on strops.

Appreciate the write ups and the proof of concept. I read about how people don't feel comfortable getting the angle by hand, or whatever, and always wondered if I was missing something. I'm sure I can improve my angle, but good to know I'm not in left field.
For 45 years I've pursued the knife, for the past 7-months I've pursued the 'crazy sharp' edge. Applying the right angle is important, but learning the feel of the edge as it progresses to sharpness, not just across the top, but up the sides, is key, you want each side to be equal as you run your thumb up the side looking for any curl and trying to get rid of it. When I think it's sharp I wet my thumb and run it over the edge's top, if it still feels sharp when my thumb is wet I know I'm on the right track; water feels different than spit, spit's too smooth, I use water to wet my thumb.
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YES! OAKLAND SUCKS! STAY AWAY! Seriously it'll kill you *dead*! There are people that LOOK different than you! They eat strange FOOD and do WEIRD THINGS for ENTERTAINMENT! There are... bees... and small dogs.. and people on bicycles.. and the streets run RED... with bbq sauce.

STAY AWAY FROM OAKLAND!

Last edited by MeatyMac; 03-03-2019 at 2:14 AM..
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Old 03-03-2019, 7:39 AM
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My sister's a chef and for a time had an in with someone selling Shun knives so she got me one as gifts for a while. I know there are a lot of other companies out there too. Just funny because it's like I'm using a nice knife to cut a frozen pizza...

It's been fun to learn to sharpen well, and overall, once I got the right stones not too difficult. Perhaps it's one of those boy scout learned skills, and while I'm sure I can get better at getting nearer to the ideal angle, I can feel and hear when it's not right.
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Old 03-05-2019, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by juanwayne714 View Post
Electric or stone? What do you guys recommend?
If you're actually interested in making your knives sharp, then you will use stones--not "A" stone. Electric sharpeners are an abomination. Yes, that is a blanket statement, but I stand by it. There are uses for motorized tools in sharpening, but if you have to ask, then they're not for you.

Let me start by saying that I am learning, I'll always be learning, and there are many who are far more skillful than I will ever be.

I use an Edge Pro clone, and it's taken me from having good results, to having the finest edges I've ever seen. Wait... I have a knife in my desk drawer from my sensei, and it's better than my own. The Edge Pro clones are cheap at under forty bucks off Amazon, but they're junky. If you use it for very long, you'll end up needing to fix/modify it. A "real" EdgePro will set you back 400-700, so you're best off trying the clone to see if you're going to stick with it.

Use the stones that come with your clone. Stones are hugely important, but again, you don't want to throw down a lot of cash one high-quality stones right out of the gate. Use the El Cheapo's, and don't think of upgrading until after you feel you've wrung all the sharpness you can out of your junk stones.

Use those tools, experiment, see what you can do. The next step would to get some GOOD stones. They're not cheap, but you'll do better work. Soon you'll be making your knives FAR better than they came from the factory. And if you sharpen a knife for someone else, you'll have genuine concern for their well being, as if you're handing a newbie a loaded gun.

As you're skill improves, so will your desire to use finer stones, and maybe you'll even want to dabble in slurry in the sub-micron scale. But jumping in at that level is pointless, until you've experimented and learned enough to get there.

If you decide to go this route and have questions, shoot 'em this way and I'l try to answer.
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Old 03-18-2019, 1:34 PM
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Finally after forever and a day I got my survive knife.

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Old 03-18-2019, 1:53 PM
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I use the cheap "V" sharpeners. I'm not good at maintaining proper angle & these do it for me. They're around $25.00 for two on QVC. I just have to be careful not to apply pressure; they remove metal faster than other methods.
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Old 03-18-2019, 2:25 PM
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i use whetstones when i want to get fancy and have spare time to break out all the stones, tub, cloths, etc. i use this badboy when i want to sharpen all my kitchen knives (shun).

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Old 03-18-2019, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
Spyderco Sharpmaker, get the optional extra fine stones, under $90 shipped for the unit and extra stones.

Steels maintain the edge, stones reshapes the edge and removes metal, I steel my knives maybe 5 times more than I stone them. You don't have to be fancy like the Chef below with a steel, just a few slow passes on each side at a 15 to 20-degree angle is all it should take, if that doesn't work get out the Sharpmaker.

Friedr. Dick's Dickoron steels are some of the best in the world, typically 66 HRC, this is a good video on their steels, I use their Sapphire series steels,




MM
Agreed on the Spyderco Sharpmaker. It's almost foolproof.

But, but, but, the words 'cut' and Dick' should never be included in the same sentence.
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Old 03-18-2019, 8:12 PM
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But, but, but, the words 'cut' and Dick' should never be included in the same sentence.
Being their sales rep I’ve heard it all many times, working in their booth at a trade show it’s non-stop Dick jokes all day...

But Friedr. Dick is a great manufacture to represent, out of the big 3 German cutlery manufactures they’re the only one still manufacturing everything in Germany. They also look at the business differently, half of their business is sharpening products, non-edge butcher tools and precision files and tools for the jewelry, gunsmith, watch making trades. Johann Friedrich Dick founded the company in 1778 to manufacture files. It continued in the manufacture of files as its main product line until 1873, when Paul Friedrich Dick took over the company and began the production of sharpening steels, in 1889 they began making knives.
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Old 03-18-2019, 9:29 PM
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I use a Wicked Edge for my non-kitchen knives. It can produce a mirror edge, if desired.

I have a set of Shun Kaji's in the kitchen and my Chef's Choice 1520 does just as good a job in 1 minute as the Wicked Edge does in 30-40 minutes of work. It works really, really well on the 15-degree "Japanese" setting for those knives.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:23 PM
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i use whetstones when i want to get fancy and have spare time to break out all the stones, tub, cloths, etc. i use this badboy when i want to sharpen all my kitchen knives (shun).

Just pulled mine out yesterday and sharpened up all my kitchen knives!

I have stones, but honestly I find them more difficult than they are worth. Some guys are really good at them - I'm not.
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Old 03-20-2019, 2:01 PM
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Stones for me.

I haven't tried one on a knife yet but my guess is that improper use of a knife belt sander/grinder can ruin a knife a lot faster than any damage you can do w/a stone. I've ruined a few things w/a circular grinder so I'll just stick to hand sharpening w/stones UNLESS I get into the business and need to sharpen a lot more knives much faster.

If I ever do buy a knife sander/grinder, I'll be sure to "practice" using it on cheap/disposable knives before attempting to sharpen anything valuable. Suggest that anyone considering such a purchase do the same.
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