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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 09-04-2013, 4:22 PM
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Default USA Made RDS under $200?

I try to buy American when I can. Granted, toilet paper, household cleaning products, and pretty much everything else inside your average wal-mart is made in china, indonesia, taiwan or some other foreign country, so for many things I am simply forced to buy foreign. Some things, such as the Glock, are actually best made in that foreign land and I will/have made that exception.

My AR-15, however, I will not make that exception unless no other option presents itself...

So far I have built this modern iteration of "sex carved out of steel" using nothing but USA made parts from various manufacturers considering price point and quality. Palmetto State Armory, Del-Ton, Bravo Company and Magpul to be specific. But coming to the point of finding a decent red dot sight, i cant seem to find any under $200 that are made in the USA. The only contenders are foreign built, which are the Bushnell TRS-25 and TRS-32, the offerings by PrimaryArms, and (on the more shoddy side based on the reviews I have researched) the Vortex offerings. I cant see building an American legend out of Chinese parts...

That said, I refuse to pay $600 for a red dot... The design is all too simple and looking to surefire as an example, usually the difference between "high quality" and "cheap" is something as stupid as a spring being soldered on BOTH sides of the battery compartment as opposed to just one. I could see some really nice glass scopes with magnification, but not a red dot..

Are there any offerings out there for a decent RDS made in the USA? Can nobody make a product that wont fall apart under significant use for less than a car payment?
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Old 09-04-2013, 6:45 PM
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Eh... no not really....

I assume you looked into redfield and loopy products already- and a lot of loopy products are parts sourced from overseas anyway....

I hear really good things about burris red dots. I dont own one.

I do have 2 nikon monarch "VSD's" and a vortex razor red dot. They are all quality products. I really like that razor....

But one that's made in the USA?

Dont know of any...

Any that are made in the USA, I'd put my vortex razor against it any day of the week for quality, reliability and durability. It isnt cheap though at about $480 best street price. My nikons run about $200-230 which arent cheap either, but are pretty good- not as good as that razor. Nobody has the warranty vortex has either. Check around... look at warranties on electronics... 1,2,4 years is the norm. Even for $500 red dots. My razor at $480 is one I only have to buy once- If it ever breaks, they'll fix or replace it. That even goes for their lower lines like the strikefire. But that razor is tits.... Competes directly with the trijicon RMR and has a lifetime warranty.
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Old 09-04-2013, 8:12 PM
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You can find a Vortex Sparc for around $150 if you look some. If I recall correctly they're made in China, but it is a better product than the Bushnell. You're not likely to find any made in America red dot under your price ceiling.
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Old 09-04-2013, 8:16 PM
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Sounds like irons for you my friend. Its okay, thats more american.

'Murica.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2013, 8:27 PM
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Either setup to the $400 mark and buy an Aimpoint Pro / Eotech 512 or give up and buy a foreign made product. Your money. Your politics. Your gun.

I don't let my politics get in the way of my money or my guns but that's just me.
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2013, 8:42 PM
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I'll go irons before I spend $400+ on a red dot...
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2013, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Eh... no not really....

I assume you looked into redfield and loopy products alread a lot of loopy products are parts sourced from overseas anyway....

I hear really good things about burris red dots. I dont own one.

I do have 2 nikon monarch "VSD's" and a vortex razor red dot. They are all quality products. I really like that razor....

But one that's made in the USA?

Dont know of any...

Any that are made in the USA, I'd put my vortex razor against it any day of the week for quality, reliability and durability. It isnt cheap though at about $480 best street price. My nikons run about $200-230 which arent cheap either, but ajuJure pretty good- not as good as that razor. Nobody has the warranty vortex has either. Check around... look at warranties on electronics... 1,2,4 years is the norm. Even for $500 red dots. My razor at $480 is one I only have to buy once- If it ever breaks, they'll fix or replace it. That even goes for their lower lines like the strikefire. But that razor is tits.... Competes directly with the trijicon RMR and has a lifetime warranty.
And I'll be GOD damned before i spend $400+ on a red dot made in China... Seriously.... I mean all politics aside, China just isn't known fire making quality anything... could be why they don't have any major automobile manufacturers, or any that I'm aware of at all...
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
And I'll be GOD damned before i spend $400+ on a red dot made in China... Seriously.... I mean all politics aside, China just isn't known fire making quality anything... could be why they don't have any major automobile manufacturers, or any that I'm aware of at all...
China, Japan, Phillipines, RDS and scope parts get made in lots of places. Typically the key components(things like the lenses, some of the electronics) aren't made in the US. All it boils down to is a matter of how much of it is made in the US. Even getting up into the thousands of dollars you'd be hard pressed to find a 100% US made optic in production.

As far as auto manufacturing in China... there actually is. GM, VW, Daimler, Ford, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, etc. all manufacture(or have parternships to manufacture their vehicles) in China. It's just that they do it for local/regional sale rather than to export to the US. Now if you're talking about strictly chinese car manufacturers, yeah they all suck pretty hardcore.
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
I mean all politics aside, China just isn't known fire making quality anything...
Iphone?

I had issues with a Japanese made product. country of origin does not necessarily equate to quality.

Last edited by Whiterabbit; 09-04-2013 at 10:18 PM..
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:18 PM
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If you want US made for that price get a broken glass take a red sharpie and make a dot on it. Get some duct tape it on to your gun and there you have it! made in the US!
Get a PA micro or Bushnell Trs.
Another option is to eat it and get an Eotech or Aimpont
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:19 PM
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High quality optics - even some of those made overseas - are just something that require you to "pay to play," unfortunately.
Are the prices justified? Not always. You just have to know your manufacturers and understand what they're offering. I've paid a lot for the Trijicon name just to know I'm getting one of, if not the best optic of its kind.
I've also paid a lot for a Japanese-made Weaver(American company) and a Philippines-made Vortex. What you are getting in the Weaver is a product made by one of the best optics makers on the planet(Light Optical Works), and in the Vortex(American company), you are getting a great quality scope with an uncomparable warranty(Unlimited, Unconditional, Lifetime). So you are paying for something there. These companies stand by their products and make it worth your while.

I know a Calgunner to actually accidentally ran over his Vortex Sparc RDS in his garage, and they sent him another, no questions asked. It's a great company if you can get past the fact that their scopes are made overseas.
I don't like buying Chinese stuff either, but something you have to understand is that even things made overseas are made to whatever standard is required of them by the buyer. A company like Vortex will always have someone on hand at the plant to monitor production and ensure that things are produced to their standards.

Last edited by Droppin Deuces; 09-04-2013 at 10:21 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
I'll go irons before I spend $400+ on a red dot...
Then go iron, end of thread.

There is nothing that fits your criteria.
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
Then go iron, end of thread.

There is nothing that fits your criteria.
Id tell you your comments are unhelpful but I'm pretty sure you already know that.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:07 PM
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Actually both of my comments as well as everybody else's comments in this thread are very helpful you just refuse to face the reality. You want a made in USA RDS but refuses to pay $400 which is the cheapest made in USA RDS you can find. You then declare that you would rather go iron then paying $400 for RDS. What I said is exactly what you said.

So tell me, what more do you want people do help you with?



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Id tell you your comments are unhelpful but I'm pretty sure you already know that.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
Id tell you your comments are unhelpful but I'm pretty sure you already know that.
Yeah, I gotta agree with Jack here. You asked a question, got an answer you don't seem to like(which also happens to be reality) and then give some ultimatum about the max price you're willing to pay. We don't care how much you want to pay, but if you want a higher quality optic, you're gonna have to pay more. Like it or not, there are quality products made in china, they typically carry higher pricetags than the cheap chinese versions. No one is suggesting you start shopping for scopes on dealxtreme, but you still need to face the facts.

Also, while you may be under the impression that a quality red dot should cost next to nothing to make, it's just not true. You need optics and a system to adjust the position of the dot that can hold up to recoil and abuse, electronics capable of a reasonable(or extremely long) battery life, glass that doesn't have a bunch of glare or some dark tint to make the dot visible, and a solid mount. If you ignore some of that you start running into the lower end of the spectrum with red dots that aren't necessarily horrible(primary arms, vortex, etc.) but if you think you're going to get something like an aimpoint for $200... not gonna happen.

Last edited by Merc1138; 09-04-2013 at 11:29 PM..
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:17 AM
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Bottom line, i was asking if there Was a reputable American manufacturer in my price point. Not whether or not iron sights were an option.

There are no data points that substantiate any reasonable difference to justify the often 700% increase in price over a value optic. Talking about bushnells here, not barska or truglo.. Nobody has torture Tested the high end optics to support these otherwise "invisible" criteria points of durability in extreme conditions. And in a RDS, durability and battery life are the optimal concerns. I just don't see how the big companies justify those prices for an unproven selling point. So i figured perhaps there was a solid American Made quality option that fit the bill. General consensus says no.

Okay. Nuff said. Thank you all for your help.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
Bottom line, i was asking if there Was a reputable American manufacturer in my price point. Not whether or not iron sights were an option.

There are no data points that substantiate any reasonable difference to justify the often 700% increase in price over a value optic. Talking about bushnells here, not barska or truglo.. Nobody has torture Tested the high end optics to support these otherwise "invisible" criteria points of durability in extreme conditions. And in a RDS, durability and battery life are the optimal concerns. I just don't see how the big companies justify those prices for an unproven selling point. So i figured perhaps there was a solid American Made quality option that fit the bill. General consensus says no.

Okay. Nuff said. Thank you all for your help.
700%? A suggestion for a $400 red dot over a $200 red dot is 700% to you? Also, how is retaining zero after use something that can't be tested? Do you fail to realize that(some models) of eotech and aimpoint have actually been issued to armed forces and used in combat? A $100 bushnell or $150 vortex sure as hell hasn't. This stuff isn't "invisible data points" either.

Now if you're talking about an ACOG, those are a typically found at a massive price increase over the $200 level stuff, but those have been issued as well(and they aren't red dots).

At this point it sounds like you're trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, and what you've posted doesn't even make any sense. Sure, if all you want to do is take it to the range, a Bushnell, Vortex, PSA, etc. red dot will be just fine from a bench. Not understanding the origin of components, and where they get assembled is one thing, but the rest is just nonsense.
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Old 09-05-2013, 1:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
700%? A suggestion for a $400 red dot over a $200 red dot is 700% to you? Also, how is retaining zero after use something that can't be tested? Do you fail to realize that(some models) of eotech and aimpoint have actually been issued to armed forces and used in combat? A $100 bushnell or $150 vortex sure as hell hasn't. This stuff isn't "invisible data points" either.

Now if you're talking about an ACOG, those are a typically found at a massive price increase over the $200 level stuff, but those have been issued as well(and they aren't red dots).

At this point it sounds like you're trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, and what you've posted doesn't even make any sense. Sure, if all you want to do is take it to the range, a Bushnell, Vortex, PSA, etc. red dot will be just fine from a bench. Not understanding the origin of components, and where they get assembled is one thing, but the rest is just nonsense.
http:// http://m.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-comp-m4s-w-larue-tactical-qd-mount

Does this make you feel stupid? Or do i have to remind you that i said "under $200" And "$400+"... and referenced bushnells which come in at under $100... Pretty sure that clocks in at over 700% difference. Stop trolling my thread.
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Old 09-05-2013, 1:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
Nobody has torture Tested the high end optics to support these otherwise "invisible" criteria points of durability in extreme conditions. And in a RDS, durability and battery life are the optimal concerns. I just don't see how the big companies justify those prices for an unproven selling point.
This thread has to be a joke.
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Old 09-05-2013, 1:09 AM
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Btw, just for fun tossing around Data points, Beretta M9s are issued to police and troops for use in combat. Doesn't make them the ultimate fighting pistol.
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Old 09-05-2013, 1:10 AM
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This thread has to be a joke.
Yep. Its a joke bro.
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Old 09-05-2013, 2:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
http:// http://m.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-comp-m4s-w-larue-tactical-qd-mount

Does this make you feel stupid? Or do i have to remind you that i said "under $200" And "$400+"... and referenced bushnells which come in at under $100... Pretty sure that clocks in at over 700% difference. Stop trolling my thread.
So then don't buy a $150 QD mount. Duh. I also never said anything that gets issued to the military is the "ultimate" either, but you certainly can't pretend that testing was never done and the thing doesn't have some sort of track record.

So now you're dragging it down to a $100 RDS(and the models mentioned from Eotech and aimpoint still don't cost 700% of that). You want a $100 durable, accurate, completely built in the US red dot sight? What planet do you live on?
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Old 09-05-2013, 5:10 AM
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This was actually a test of the rifle, but the attached Aimpoint also held up pretty well to all the crap they put it through:



I would generally agree that the Aimpoints seem over priced, but I seriously doubt that one of the budget level competitors of the Aimpoint would stand up as well to the abuse shown in the video. Having a battery life that is pretty much dictated by the shelf life of the battery is also a plus.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2013, 5:58 AM
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I didn't know Aimpoint was made in the US.

OP, whining about prices of high quality optics is not going to make them cost less. The best options in your price range will come from companies like Burris and Vortex. I would suggest Vortex because of their warranty. If that isn't going to work, then suck it up and go with something like a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x20.
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Old 09-05-2013, 6:23 AM
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My philosophy is that holding zero should be a given on any sight. I have a $50 truglo that survived over 300 shotgun slug rounds to-date and still holds its point of impact. If a bushnell our vortex offering couldn't hold zero for its lifetime id be both shocked and disappointed. I've seen a LOT of reviews on the lower end products that suggest they are decent Rigs at around $100. I just can't believe no American company can provide something of similar value in the $200 range, perhaps even up more to $300. Just seems like such a wide gap between the value sights and the "big boys". Was hoping i had overlooked a brand that closed that gap a bit. Guess that's just an impossibility
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:18 AM
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All jokes a side and not teasing you in any way truth is you will not find a US made optic under $200 period. Another thing you must understand the US is not what it was... China is now basically our bed buddy like it or not..
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
http:// http://m.laruetactical.com/aimpoint-comp-m4s-w-larue-tactical-qd-mount

Does this make you feel stupid? Or do i have to remind you that i said "under $200" And "$400+"... and referenced bushnells which come in at under $100... Pretty sure that clocks in at over 700% difference. Stop trolling my thread.
Dude, you're actually the one trolling your own thread.

You asked a question about something that doesn't exist due to the unrealistic parameters and price points you imposed on it, and people told you that it doesn't exist due to the unrealistic parameters and price points you imposed on it.

People posted options to try and get what you wanted if you could ease your requirements to be a little more realistic, but you didn't like the answers you got so you want to argue about what YOU think things should cost, and start asking people if you "made them feel stupid".

Get over yourself. //Thread fail//
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droppin Deuces View Post
I didn't know Aimpoint was made in the US.
+1

could have sworn my micro box says made in sweden... gotta go dig it up now...
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static808 View Post
+1

could have sworn my micro box says made in sweden... gotta go dig it up now...
Now that you guys mention it, that sounds about right. But I wouldn't be surprised if the OP also equates that to "made in china".
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:46 AM
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Aimpoint is not US made.
"To maintain full control and high quality, Aimpoint's aiming devices are all manufactured in Sweden, Europe - ISO 9001:2008 certified"
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:02 AM
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Where's the Sightron S33 RDS made?

Edit: Seems to be Japan. Better than China for sure.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:03 AM
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go buy a primary arms RDS, theres not many options in that budget range and definitely will not be american made..
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:24 AM
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US made (Pretty sure anyway...) Leupold Prismatic @ $499.95:

http://swfa.com/Leupold-Tactical-Pri...pes-C1838.aspx

Probably one of the more rugged red dot options available. The reticle is also glass etched, and not simply a projected dot, so it will remain visible even when not illuminated.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:32 AM
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And OP. If you are willing to purchase Del Ton products but not PA,Vortex,or Bushnell based upon principle of Countries of manufacture that's fine. But,if you are talking about quality and reliability,they are all probably about the same(with all 3 optics companies edging out the American AR manufacturer IMHO)
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:35 AM
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Made in the USA is not just a tag that comes with your product. It means Americans getting paid an American wage to assemble your goods. As low as they might be, an American wage is significantly higher than Chinese wages. So are the other business expenses for the enterprise. Expecting the price point to be similar is naive. Either invest in our economy at a higher premium or invest in China's at a lower cost - your choice, but set your expectations accordingly.
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2013, 8:49 AM
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Slugz Slugz is offline
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In my research i have learned del ton is a decent enough brand. And besides, the only product of theirs i used was the lower receiver.

@whip, what I'm asking for may or may not exist, but if i knew that i wouldn't be asking now would i? $200 ish for a quality red dot made in the usa may not be physically possible in todays business ethics but id hardly consider it "unrealistic" to ask for. Don't like what I have to say? Hit the back button. But dont come In here and crap in my thread with useless banter.

Moving on to matters of relevance, for those making alternative suggestions (thank you for your input by the way) which value optic among the top 3 would you suggest? Top 3 being bushnell, vortex, and primary arms. I have heard glowing reports Of primary arms customer service. But Rock Island armory taught me the lesson that customer service doesn't matter much if the product itself is sub standard. Any suggestions?
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Old 09-05-2013, 9:06 AM
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Slugz Slugz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
e USA is not just a tag that comes with your product. It means Americans getting paid an American wage to assemble your goods. As low as they might be, an American wage is significantly higher than Chinese wages. So are the other business expenses for the enterprise. Expecting the price point to be similar is naive. Either invest in our economy at a higher premium or invest in China's at a lower cost - your choice, but set your expectations accordingly.
A valid point and one i considered. I guess when looking at brands like eotech and aim point i can't help but feel that with leo/military endorsement and video game/Hollywood sensationalizing them, they may be tacking on some "celebrity fees" increasing their price point. Not an uncommon practice as I'm sure you are well Aware. Perhaps I'm wrong. But that's what i was here to determine, whether or not a company exists that puts care into their product without hype-pricing it.
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  #38  
Old 09-05-2013, 9:23 AM
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JWHuey JWHuey is offline
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I have optics.
1. Burris tac-30 1x4
2. Bushnell trs-25
3. Vortex Sparc
4. Mepro M21
5. Primary Arms micro(this is to be delivered today for an AK
6. Aimpoint PRO
Honestly,I like them all. The Mepro and Aimpoint are probably the ones I would count on if I ever needed a rugged optic. But that is based solely on internet reviews. None of them have ever failed me. They have all held zero well. And I have not needed to send in any for warranty work(but vortex is awesome,I lost the riser for my sparc and contacted them to purchase a replacement. They sent it free of charge and it arrived 2 day priority mail.


My comment on DTI was based on personal experience btw. I had a 20' upper that was a POS. I will stick with BCM,SPA,and the like from here on out.
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  #39  
Old 09-05-2013, 9:30 AM
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Droppin Deuces Droppin Deuces is offline
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Vortex. I'm sure Primary Arms sells a good product and are great to deal with, but Vortex has the warranty. THE warranty.
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Old 09-05-2013, 9:34 AM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugz View Post
A valid point and one i considered. I guess when looking at brands like eotech and aim point i can't help but feel that with leo/military endorsement and video game/Hollywood sensationalizing them, they may be tacking on some "celebrity fees" increasing their price point. Not an uncommon practice as I'm sure you are well Aware. Perhaps I'm wrong. But that's what i was here to determine, whether or not a company exists that puts care into their product without hype-pricing it.
Their prices have actually stayed fairly steady the past few years, with aimpoint even releasing the pretty decently priced PRO model. As far as premiums due to celebrity, I don't see the same being said about glock(yet they're featured in games and movies).

The fact is that if someone could manufacture an optic that was worth a crap for a reasonable price compared to the competition while being able to claim it's 100% made in the USA and turn a profit(no one is going to do it out of the kindness of their heart), someone would have done it by now.
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