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  #1  
Old 09-18-2019, 9:36 PM
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Default Dp-12...legal or not legal??

I'd like a dp12. I see they sell a Ca compliant version and it states it's 14 round capacity. I thought the magazine tubes had to be plugged to 5 rounds each.

Anyone know the real story on these shotguns?
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I'd like a dp12. I see they sell a Ca compliant version and it states it's 14 round capacity. I thought the magazine tubes had to be plugged to 5 rounds each.

Anyone know the real story on these shotguns?
Are you sure that isn't specifically for hunting? BTW it's no more than 3 rounds.

EDIT: Disregard!
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Last edited by meno377; 09-18-2019 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:09 PM
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DOJ has a memo - DP12 mag tubes must be blocked, epoxied, and riveted to 5rds each of whatever shell length is stamped on the barrel or chamber, or no more than 10rd combined.
You can see the document here

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...8&d=1481910200

Quote:
(5)The internal magazines of a firearm are part of a design function in which the combined ammunition capacity exceeds 10 rounds, and can be fired by the shooter without manipulating the magazine selector switch. An example of this type of firearm is the Standard Manufacturing DP-12 pump shotgun. If the tubular magazines are permanently altered to reduce their capacity to 10 rounds or less as described in this section, then this firearm would not be deemed a large-capacity magazine.

Magazine capacity for shotguns shall be based upon shotgun shells that are 2 3/4”, which shall be the default standard if the firearm is not marked to indicate another shotgun shell standard. If a particular firearm is marked to indicate another shotgun shell standard, then the magazine capacity for that firearm shall be based upon those markings. Shotgun shells shorter than the default standard may only be used to determine magazine capacity if a firearm is specifically marked to accept this shell exclusively.
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A tubular magazine that has more than a 10 round capacity shall have its capacity permanently reduced by insertion of a magazine block and use of permanent epoxy to hold the block in place. Then, a rivet shall secure the block in place by penetrating the tubular magazine and the magazine block.
If they are advertising a 14rd ‘CA version’, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) they have put in a manual tube selector instead of auto feeding from both tubes
2) they are basing 14rds on a shorter shell than the chamber designation

Call them, find out and get back to us.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-18-2019 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:11 PM
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I never got a memo. I must not be in the email list
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:30 PM
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My guess is they have an error in the description on their page, and they are installing the CA compliant plungers which are just follower extensions (aka mag blocks) that they sell which limit the capacity to 5rd per tube.

I question the legality of those, they are essentially magazines that are not permanently blocked.

IMO the KSG makes way more sense and is a lot lighter.

https://stdgun.com/dp-12-california-compliant-plugs/

https://youtu.be/qJ7q_ukK4Qw

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-18-2019 at 10:35 PM..
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:25 AM
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Maybe it says 3 1/2 inch chamber, 5 shells take up the same space as 7 2 3/4 inch shells.
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Old 09-19-2019, 5:28 AM
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No -- it says 4 shells at 4.8"

Kinda want the weight. It's for HD. Not quails. I shot the ksg. It ran perfectly through 100 rounds but the lightness really adds up to a beating. I have a registered assault weapon Vepr 12. Changing mags is a nightmare.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:29 AM
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The DP12 is cool because you get two shots before a pump (if everything goes well). The downside is you have two shell lifters and two shells loading, which is 2x the chance of a jam.

The KSG will beat you up but if you really need to use it, you wont notice The extra rounds may be worth it. I put an extended selector paddle on mine and I can change tubes with a bump of my wrist, never breaking my firing grip.

http://www.hitechcc.com/product/HTC-106.html

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-19-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 09-19-2019, 8:56 PM
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Has anyone shot both? The YouTube videos seem to favor the DP.

I just want something reliable. My vepr is reliable, but it's a raw and it's bullet button is really a pain. Same as an Ak.
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Old 09-20-2019, 8:16 PM
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(5)The internal magazines of a firearm are part of a design function in which the combined ammunition capacity exceeds 10 rounds, and can be fired by the shooter without manipulating the magazine selector switch.

So KSG is CA legal with greater than 10 round capacity because it has selector switch to switch between mags? That seems uncommonly recondite, even by the standards of the CA DOJ.
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Old 09-20-2019, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandHill View Post

So KSG is CA legal with greater than 10 round capacity because it has selector switch to switch between mags?
That is exactly correct. It is little difference than two 10rd AR mags that are connected at the basplate. As long as some manual action is required to get the next mag into action, it is a legal mag arrangement or in this case, mag tube arrangement.
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Old 09-20-2019, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
That is exactly correct. It is little difference than two 10rd AR mags that are connected at the basplate. As long as some manual action is required to get the next mag into action, it is a legal mag arrangement or in this case, mag tube arrangement.
Hmmm. Seems to me a lot less effort than pulling out the AR mags, turning them upside down and reinserting. There ought to be a business here. Design a "double stack" handgun that holds two single stack mags side by side, with a selector switch. Voila, 20 rounds, even without Freedom Week mags. Then just get your Frankenpistole on the roster, then, wait.....never mind!
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
DOJ has a memo - DP12 mag tubes must be blocked, epoxied, and riveted to 5rds each of whatever shell length is stamped on the barrel or chamber, or no more than 10rd combined.
You can see the document here

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...8&d=1481910200





If they are advertising a 14rd ‘CA version’, there are a couple of possibilities:

1) they have put in a manual tube selector instead of auto feeding from both tubes
2) they are basing 14rds on a shorter shell than the chamber designation

Call them, find out and get back to us.
Interesting the DOJ provides specific examples, such as the KSG, which are in compliance with the law. The DOJ has a history of otherwise promoting ambiguity rather than clarity.
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