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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #241  
Old 07-22-2015, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I put money down on one yesterday at Turners and was told there would be about a month wait per Ruger.

I strongly suspect that no one not even Ruger expected this rifle to be such a hot item.
Kestryll, for any type of "precision", a month isn't a long wait at all. Afterall, you still need the CA-10 day, so you need to wait no matter what. If you get serious into precision, you will start to find that 1 year+ waits are common. That's why folks end up with a few guns, some are in progress while they are waiting for parts/upgrades/work.
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  #242  
Old 07-22-2015, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by calshipbuilder View Post
They had inventory count listed online and you could see them clicking off after it was announced. There were 5 when I started placing my order, 4 left when I finished. Someone at turners entered those rifles into their inventory. Now they are gone.... "over sold"

Firearms should not be something that can be "over sold." These aren't airline seats. You need to log these in and maintain records for them.

I really hope they get audited over this.

Sorry for the thread jacking... for those that do get their RPRs, I hope you enjoy them, looks like a great rifle at a great price
I can't remember the products, but I have heard of Turner's having similar issues in the past. But, they will generally still honor the sale price. That's a good thing for the consumer since you now get to preview other people's RPRs and have a price lock while you test drive another.
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  #243  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:42 AM
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I am always weary of first generation stuff. Maybe during the wait you will find they iron out production issues and you dodged a bullet? That'd be ironic.
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  #244  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
I am always weary of first generation stuff. Maybe during the wait you will find they iron out production issues and you dodged a bullet? That'd be ironic.
Pretty much. We're talking about ruger, not keltec who makes an initial run and then trickles them out the door 2-3 a week for the next 2 years. If they're already sold out, ruger will make more and you get to avoid the first batch.
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  #245  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JMP View Post
Kestryll, for any type of "precision", a month isn't a long wait at all. Afterall, you still need the CA-10 day, so you need to wait no matter what. If you get serious into precision, you will start to find that 1 year+ waits are common. That's why folks end up with a few guns, some are in progress while they are waiting for parts/upgrades/work.
The exact reason I'm going to pick up a spare barrel to have on hand
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  #246  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:45 AM
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We have the 6.5 models enroute to us. We should have the 308 models soon as well.
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  #247  
Old 07-22-2015, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Standish View Post
I am always weary of first generation stuff. Maybe during the wait you will find they iron out production issues and you dodged a bullet? That'd be ironic.
It depends. On a product like this, I'd say it is a plus. On really high-end limited stuff, you often WANT to be on the first run since that is when the makers hold their tolerances to extreme levels because the first run is what is going to get reviewed and published. It's sort of like a lottery. On some stuff you simply cannot get the best as the best products are earmarked for special purposes.
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Originally Posted by vliberatore View Post
The exact reason I'm going to pick up a spare barrel to have on hand
The time to get a new barrel is when you put your current barrel on. That's how I see it. Once you got your barrel figured out, it's a good idea to get a few and have them done at the same time.
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  #248  
Old 07-22-2015, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JMP View Post
It depends. On a product like this, I'd say it is a plus. On really high-end limited stuff, you often WANT to be on the first run since that is when the makers hold their tolerances to extreme levels because the first run is what is going to get reviewed and published. It's sort of like a lottery. On some stuff you simply cannot get the best as the best products are earmarked for special purposes
Yep
On something like this I'd rather have one from first run or wait until demand slows down. Seems odds of getting a bad one that slipped past QC would be high.
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  #249  
Old 07-22-2015, 3:06 PM
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I went to the store and I got a chance to check one out in person today… Some observations…

Trigger wasn’t bad at all but it didn’t feel completely consistent from the 20+ times I dry fired it. Not from a pull weight standpoint; some pulls felt like it was a nice clean break and some felt like there was a little additional take-up/creep before hitting that wall. I’ve had a poorly adjusted R700 trigger feel like that before too.

If you got used to using something like a properly adjusted Timney 510 or other target trigger, I could see wanting an upgrade. It is however something I could live with it and enjoying using. I also have no idea if anyone had messed with the trigger and where the pull weight was set at.

I couldn’t get the folding hinge to unlock, the release button was felt like it was locked up. Even the store clerk said they had to hit it with a punch or something to get it loose. I’d like to see what others have to say because if that’s normal I wouldn’t be happy about it.

The LOP and comb height adjustments: It was a little finicky to work with. I’m sure it’s a non-issues since once it is adjusted, you generally don’t fuss with it. The LOP adjustment didn’t want to adjust after I released and rotated the retention piece. I’m going to chock it up to demo model but again it wasn’t 100% foolproof. The comb adjustment did work as advertised.

The store demo model had a magazine in it, I’m sure it had some mileage from people racking the bolt, but you could easily see it starting to shave away the follower in the mag. Again probably a non-issue but something to make note of.



I kind of had my mind make up on ordering one in 6.5 but my tune kind of changed after messing with it for a while. I actually went home without ordering one… I think I need to sleep on this one a bit.

The overall package was very cool, I’m still impressed considering the price, and I still want one but the urge to buy one kind of fizzled away while I was there…

My original plan was to order RPR in 6.5 and keep my R700 SPS Tactical with a 20” barrel in 308 alone. It would have been the least amount of work to get myself a 6.5 to enjoy but I fear long term I couldn’t really grow it into something more serious if I wanted to.

Now I feel like I should just get a RPR in 308, and just make plans to build up the R700 into a 6.5 Creedmoor or other 6.5 variant like a 260, 260 AI, or whatever since I won’t be limited to any factory chambering offerings…

Last edited by ExtremeX; 06-14-2016 at 10:28 PM..
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  #250  
Old 07-22-2015, 3:08 PM
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They had to hit it with a punch? I recall one of the videos mentioning a locking tab for the folding mechanism, maybe that was it?
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  #251  
Old 07-22-2015, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
They had to hit it with a punch? I recall one of the videos mentioning a locking tab for the folding mechanism, maybe that was it?
Only regurgitating what I was told… if there was a release for the folding mechanism I wasn’t made aware of it.

Hopefully that’s the case because it sure didn’t want to move.

Edit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ROvbscFVE

I just watched the video… it looks like that tab you are talking about is just to lock it in place after you fold it?

Last edited by ExtremeX; 07-22-2015 at 3:23 PM..
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  #252  
Old 07-22-2015, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Only regurgitating what I was told… if there was a release for the folding mechanism I wasn’t made aware of it.

Hopefully that’s the case because it sure didn’t want to move.

Edit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ROvbscFVE

I just watched the video… it looks like that tab you are talking about is just to lock it in place after you fold it?
Yeah, could just be a customer that did who knows what while manhandling it. I suppose the argument could be made that the rifle should be able to hold up to "use/abuse/wear/etc.", but the reality is that some people needlessly handle demos like a 500 pound gorilla.
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  #253  
Old 07-22-2015, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Yeah, could just be a customer that did who knows what while manhandling it. I suppose the argument could be made that the rifle should be able to hold up to "use/abuse/wear/etc.", but the reality is that some people needlessly handle demos like a 500 pound gorilla.
The rifle I handled needed a stiff push of the button to fold the stock. Several people who tried it in front of me didn't get it. I just assume they were putting pressure on the stock at the same time as they were trying to push the button. same thing happens with Cold Steel triad lock...if you first press the lock then fold the blade no problems but if you attempt to fold the blade as your trying to push the lock then it gets tough.

Anyway, the Ruger lock was was prefect, if it was easy then you'd be complaining about it!
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  #254  
Old 07-22-2015, 4:26 PM
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What is so special about .243?
Why make the RPR in that caliber?
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  #255  
Old 07-22-2015, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
The rifle I handled needed a stiff push of the button to fold the stock. Several people who tried it in front of me didn't get it. I just assume they were putting pressure on the stock at the same time as they were trying to push the button. same thing happens with Cold Steel triad lock...if you first press the lock then fold the blade no problems but if you attempt to fold the blade as your trying to push the lock then it gets tough.

Anyway, the Ruger lock was was prefect, if it was easy then you'd be complaining about it!
I wasn’t expecting it to be like my AICS hinge release, tension or not, this was more than just a “stiff push”… more like locked up.

Again, demo model, not too concerned about it, but I’d like to get more input from people who actually receive new ones and use it for the first time.
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  #256  
Old 07-22-2015, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GW View Post
What is so special about .243?
Why make the RPR in that caliber?
6mm has been the in thing for a long time too… I suspect it’s because there are lots of factory match ammo options for 243.

Most 6mm cartridges used in competition were probably wildcats or a bit more exotic which was better for someone who did reload. If there wasn’t an easy option for factory ammo, I wouldn’t expect to see it in the RPR.

Edit- More Info
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/1...-the-pros-use/
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/0...-the-pros-use/
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1008288

Last edited by ExtremeX; 07-22-2015 at 4:40 PM..
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  #257  
Old 07-22-2015, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GW View Post
What is so special about .243?
Why make the RPR in that caliber?
The 243 is so far superior ballistically than the 308 Winchester it would make your head swim.
David Tubb has been using one for years or a variant of one because a 20 inch 308 has no purpose beyond 400 yards.
It also bests the 6.5 by 5 moa or more at 1000 yards both using quality components.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 07-22-2015 at 5:24 PM..
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  #258  
Old 07-22-2015, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Trigger wasn’t bad at all but it didn’t feel completely consistent from the 20+ times I dry fired it. Not from a pull weight standpoint; some pulls felt like it was a nice clean break and some felt like there was a little additional take-up/creep before hitting that wall. I’ve had a poorly adjusted R700 trigger feel like that before too.

If you got used to using something like a properly adjusted Timney 510 or other target trigger, I could see wanting an upgrade. It is however something I could live with it and enjoying using. I also have no idea if anyone had messed with the trigger and where the pull weight was set at.
The question is whether or not you can get an upgraded trigger. Unfortunately, about the best you can do for a Ruger American is a 1.5-4lb Timney, but I am not sure if that trigger is compatible. It looks like it may not be from only the rough schematics I've seen. For me, second to the barrel, the trigger tends to be the weak point on American rifles.
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Originally Posted by GW View Post
What is so special about .243?
Why make the RPR in that caliber?
The .243 will blow any of the other chamberings out of the water (and it also is the only one with a barrel length to so anyways). My long barreled 243 will launch a monolithic bullet with a BC of 0.510 at 3,350 fps.
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
6mm has been the in thing for a long time too… I suspect it’s because there are lots of factory match ammo options for 243.

Most 6mm cartridges used in competition were probably wildcats or a bit more exotic which was better for someone who did reload. If there wasn’t an easy option for factory ammo, I wouldn’t expect to see it in the RPR.
The reason is also for feeding. I can guarantee it would not feed 6BR or 6 Dasher (probably others) with the mag system it has.
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  #259  
Old 07-22-2015, 5:23 PM
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Anyone in the Sacramento area; Discount Shooters Supply in Roseville is letting them go for $899. None in stock. Backordering.

I've bought powder from them. I recommended them to my buddy who already ordered a RPR through them. It's a nice clean store that I'd recommend.
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  #260  
Old 07-22-2015, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
The 243 is so far superior ballistically than the 308 Winchester it would make your head swim.
David Tubb has been using one for years or a variant of one because a 20 inch 308 has no purpose beyond 400 yards.
It also bests the 6.5 by 5 moa or more at 1000 yards both using quality components.
I think Bryan Litz also shoots one,

and George Garner before the 6 creed.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243win.html

I keep my 243 a bit more mellow than JMP - 105 hybrids at 3018fps
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  #261  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:15 PM
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I was at the West Covina store today. They said Turners had 80 of each caliber in the warehouse and they are all sold out. They are taking deposits (30%) for the next shipment to arrive 2-3 months. The current price is only good till the end on this, so those that are on the fence (like me) should make up their mind soon. They let me fondle a .243 win from the back. I didnt mess with it too much since someone had already started DROS in it but it looked pretty good. The bolt was pretty smooth, the stock was pretty firm and overall pretty solid. The only reason I didnt put down a deposit was the barrel length. It just seems a bit too short for any of the calibers.

Another thing holding me back is the FSC card. I had told myself I wont get one till my HSC expires next year but I might have to, in order to get this one.
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  #262  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
The 243 is so far superior ballistically than the 308 Winchester it would make your head swim.
David Tubb has been using one for years or a variant of one because a 20 inch 308 has no purpose beyond 400 yards.
It also bests the 6.5 by 5 moa or more at 1000 yards both using quality components.
Thanks
Looks like I've got some reading to do
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  #263  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Trriemferent View Post
The current price is only good till the end on this, so those that are on the fence (like me) should make up their mind soon.
The price isn't spectacular by any means. We are letting them go for $1,000 OTD and have 6.5 and 243 models en route
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  #264  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:40 PM
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[QUOTE=GW;16652849]Thanks
Looks like I've got some reading to do TE]

The 243 has a fast twist barrel which means you can use the 105 VLD or the 115 VLD style bullets with a bc number over 0.515 at over 3100 fps.
If the 243 had a 10 twist rate they would be very similar.
For anything past 400 yards you want a bullet with a bc number over 0.500 and 3000+ fps on the velocity.

The twist rate makes the 243 the winner
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  #265  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Trriemferent View Post
The only reason I didnt put down a deposit was the barrel length. It just seems a bit too short for any of the calibers.

Another thing holding me back is the FSC card. I had told myself I wont get one till my HSC expires next year but I might have to, in order to get this one.
I think your instincts are right. It's a shame that they made the barrels so short, a 20" 308 isn't what you want for precision unless you are keeping it very close. The .243 does have a 26" barrel, which is reasonable. However, if you look at the tactical style of the rifle, as they come with threaded barrels, it is very clear that the main audience was for people outside of CA. The reason that a lot of makers are selling these short barrels that are pre-threaded is really for the intention of using a suppressor with your rifle, which adds quite a bit of length. It might be a nifty little tactical rifle if you were outside of CA and could use it with a suppressor.
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  #266  
Old 07-22-2015, 7:52 PM
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I think your instincts are right. It's a shame that they made the barrels so short, a 20" 308 isn't what you want for precision unless you are keeping it very close. The .243 does have a 26" barrel, which is reasonable. However, if you look at the tactical style of the rifle, as they come with threaded barrels, it is very clear that the main audience was for people outside of CA. The reason that a lot of makers are selling these short barrels that are pre-threaded is really for the intention of using a suppressor with your rifle, which adds quite a bit of length. It might be a nifty little tactical rifle if you were outside of CA and could use it with a suppressor.
Bingo. I think they figure 6.5CD is ballistically superior for LR compared to .308, so they made the .308 short barreled with intentions for suppressors since it can shoot much heavier slugs more effectively which is what suppressed rifles need.

Pretty sure they thought a few things through.... However, the customers may not.
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  #267  
Old 07-22-2015, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GW View Post
What is so special about .243?
Why make the RPR in that caliber?
Easily available brass/dies.
Shoots really flat and bucks the wind better than any 6.5mm cartridge.
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Old 07-22-2015, 9:23 PM
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[QUOTE=LynnJr;16653006]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW View Post
The 243 has a fast twist barrel which means you can use the 105 VLD or the 115 VLD style bullets with a bc number over 0.515 at over 3100 fps.
If the 243 had a 10 twist rate they would be very similar.
For anything past 400 yards you want a bullet with a bc number over 0.500 and 3000+ fps on the velocity.

The twist rate makes the 243 the winner
For this line up, the 243 is the obvious winner. However, the 6.5 is no slouch as those bullets are tremendously efficient.

The most popular is the 140gr A-Max with a G1 of .585. Personally, I use the 139gr Scenar as I like Lapua bullets to avoid needing to sort my plinker ammo, and I find the BC's dead on. They have a G1 of .578 and a G7 of .290. It's a very nice bullet, and if folks are hitting steel plates, it hits a bit harder with the weight. After a certain point, the 6.5 hits harder than a 308 since it has good weight and retains velocity quite a bit better than the 308.

For someone starting out, the 6.5 is nice because it tends to be accurate and it isn't that fast at about 2,800 fps from the 24" barrel. So, with shorter distance shooting, I find that sometimes a little slower bullet is easier to steer. It's very nice for intermediate ranges. Unfortunately, the published test results were less than stellar with 3/4" groups, which is very disappointing. But, that was factory ammo, I am sure that it can be tuned to 1/2" even with the chrome Ruger barrel, which is better than most people will shoot that are looking for a starter precision rifle.

Realistically, for the target market, the 243 is probably the loser as the folks getting this rifle aren't ones to do a lot of rebarreling; otherwise, they'd probably go to a less complete, more customizable package. 6mm shooters need to rebarrel quite a bit as a 243 Win is good for about 1,500 rounds. Performance comes at a price.

Now, if they did 6BR, that would be a great starters case as I have become a big fan of the 6BR, but I know they mag system wouldn't work, then they'd lose that selling point. 6BR is about the most bang for you buck you'll ever see, IMO.

Ideally, they would have done a 26" 1:12" 308 as it is a good place to learn. Most people are going to start with closer range precision rather than long range precision, so 300-800 yards is more likely to be shot with this rifle.

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Pretty sure they thought a few things through.... However, the customers may not.
Lack of information can be a major advantage in marketing.
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Old 07-22-2015, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post

The 243 has a fast twist barrel which means you can use the 105 VLD or the 115 VLD style bullets with a bc number over 0.515 at over 3100 fps.

The twist rate makes the 243 the winner

What type of COAL could one expect to have with a 105 or 115 VLD if they were not chasing lands?

For example I don't chase the lands, its generally too far out in most factory barrels, but I almost always seat longer than book value for the increased case capacity. Sometimes those values could be longer than what you can seat in the magazine.

The 75gr Amax for 223 Rem is a good example. I shoot those using a single shot sled since they don't fit in a mag. Loads like that might be problematic for the RPR.

Last edited by ExtremeX; 07-22-2015 at 9:50 PM..
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Old 07-22-2015, 9:56 PM
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What type of COAL could one expect to have with a 105 or 115 VLD if they were not chasing lands?
2.800".

IF you want to chase lands, it depends on how long the throat is.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:13 PM
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Extreme
The VLD type bullets like being into the lands as hard as 0.003 neck tension will allow them to seat then back them off another 0.020 which leaves them into the lands.
The next sweetspot is around 0.020 off of the lands and after that 0.125-- 0.200 off the lands.
The freebore determines where the bullet will eventually sit and we don't have that info yet.
If you switch from a VLD type bullet to a tangent ogive bullet like a Sierra they have a sweetspot about 0.060 off of the lands so the wide variety of 6mm bullets means you can always chase the lands.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:20 PM
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Also, you don't want too long a throat thinking you need it to shoot high BC bullets since they are longer. High BC bullets have very skinny secant o-gives, and the tip of the bullet may sit pretty far into the chamber.

I think the way to do it is to get a minimum reamer, then fit your chamber to the bullet you want to use if you have a very specialized bullet. Now, for 6mm since there are so many great factory production choices, most of the reamers used by gunsmiths will probably do a decent job as the 105s are where it is at for 6mm.

Then, you can extend the throat in increments to see where your bullet needs to be.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:45 PM
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The 243 is so far superior ballistically than the 308 Winchester it would make your head swim.
David Tubb has been using one for years or a variant of one because a 20 inch 308 has no purpose beyond 400 yards.
It also bests the 6.5 by 5 moa or more at 1000 yards both using quality components.

I'd like to see the data on this 5 MOA or more delta for .243 over 6.5CM at 1K yds. Isn't that 55 inches? Is this a typo?

I went with the 6.5 over .243 because of availability of factory rounds, not wanting to rebarrel as soon (as was mentioned, .243 is a burner) and milder recoil. The 24" barrel with an 8 twist seems right for the 140 Amax. The threaded barrel will let me run a muzzle break without a smithing charge (any recommendations? / thinking Surefire ProComp).


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Last edited by Jaytil; 07-22-2015 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 07-22-2015, 11:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Jaytil;16654005]The threaded barrel will let me run a muzzle break without a smithing charge (any recommendations? / thinking Surefire ProComp).

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/0...oil-reduction/
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Old 07-22-2015, 11:19 PM
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I'd like to see the data on this 5 MOA or more delta for .243 over 6.5CM at 1K yds. Isn't that 55 inches? Is this a typo?

I went with the 6.5 over .243 because of availability of factory rounds, not wanting to rebarrel as soon (as was mentioned, .243 is a burner) and milder recoil. The 24" barrel with an 8 twist seems right for the 140 Amax. The threaded barrel will let me run a muzzle break without a smithing charge (any recommendations? / thinking Surefire ProComp).


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I believe he is talking about drop.
For the conditions that I am sitting in right now, to 1,000, here is the drop for these three with my guns and loads at 1,000 yards:
243 (105 Scenar): 6.8 mil
6.5 (139 Scenar): 8.1 mil
308 (168 SMK): 9.9 mil

Thus, for my guns and loads, the 243 has 1.3 mil more drop, which translates to 4.5 MOA. So, yes, about 50" was correct in terms of DROP. Now just because you have more drop, it just means it is longer time to the target, and it doesn't mean you can't shoot accurately. It depends on a number of things.
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Old 07-22-2015, 11:35 PM
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Was he(jaytil) attempting to say "5 moa delta" as in Δy? Kind of awkward wording.
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Last edited by BillyGoatCrawler; 07-23-2015 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
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I'd like to see the data on this 5 MOA or more delta for .243 over 6.5CM at 1K yds. Isn't that 55 inches? Is this a typo?

I went with the 6.5 over .243 because of availability of factory rounds, not wanting to rebarrel as soon (as was mentioned, .243 is a burner) and milder recoil.

243 recoil is lower than 6.5 creedmoor.

6.7mils elevation to 1000yds from a 100yd zero with a 105 Berger from a 243.
8.2mils elevation to 1000yds from a 100yd zero with a 142 SMK from a 6.5 creedmoor.
1.5 mils difference is 5 moa difference.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
I believe he is talking about drop.

For the conditions that I am sitting in right now, to 1,000, here is the drop for these three with my guns and loads at 1,000 yards:

243 (105 Scenar): 6.8 mil

6.5 (139 Scenar): 8.1 mil

308 (168 SMK): 9.9 mil



Thus, for my guns and loads, the 243 has 1.3 mil more drop, which translates to 4.5 MOA. So, yes, about 50" was correct in terms of DROP. Now just because you have more drop, it just means it is longer time to the target, and it doesn't mean you can't shoot accurately. It depends on a number of things.

Copy. Thanks.


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Old 07-23-2015, 12:30 AM
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Was he(jaytil) attempting to say "5 moa delta" as in Δy? Kind of awkward wording.

Just change or difference. Sorry if it seemed awkward.


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Old 07-23-2015, 6:30 AM
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I got one in jail so 7 more days and it will be home. I'll shoot it as it is, got the 6.5 CM and I also have some more stable AR10 parts I want to install, I'll post my findings next thursday
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