Centurion/Nobel Buck and Ball

[penguinofsleep]

http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gau...ammo-ans12md10

Just curious, is there any reason why this load would/wouldn't work from a terminal ballistics perspective (lets say against a 2 legged threat, not a wild boar, bears, elephants, or w/e)? I realize it is "unproven" and the reasoning behind buck and ball is more than antiquated (from days of muzzleloaders due to people firing in lines/ranks), but intuition tells me that it should perform at least fairly well:
- Small "slug" - roughly similar effects as a regular slug, the reduced mass probably leads to less penetration, but it's not like slugs can't penetrating enough in the first place.
- 6 #1 buck - far as I know, #1 buck is a pretty good load for self defense. potentially better than #00 due to a higher sectional density while providing sufficient penetration. if anything, i imagine its better than nothing.
- Therefore I imagine that slug + buck at the same time > just slug or just buck.

Again I am simply wondering about the technical aspect of this load. This is all assuming that this stuff already patterns well in the gun, is going to be used in an appropriate situation/setting and load consideration has already been done, it cycles reliably, legally safe, etc. etc.

[HOGLEG]

It's an effective loading as a close in defensive round.

The reason I go to a slug is for longer range precision. Less projectiles speading out haphazardly. Less liability. Hopefully more lead on target.


Here's PDX test in gelatin test. Not exactly the same round you are talking about, but close. My guess is that the Noble sport/Centurion wont pattern as nicely as these rounds. It will be more like throwing a bunch of lead in the general direction. YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg44jDOL8jo

Centorion...short range pattern test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOypcMuq1Ok

[paratroop]

Some folks get pretty good patterns with it. I for one like it. Although it feeds in my 500a persuader Mossberg, it tends to jam in my 500 cruiser. At home I would load that last, and some 00, #1 or #4 buck first. (Or rather the other way around depending on how you think of it)

Reliability in your platform is key. Before you load anything for defensive purposes, make sure it shoots and cycles reliably. If it fails to extract, be prepared to butt stroke, or swing like a baseball bat.

[penguinofsleep]

yes, it patterns pretty well for me. went through a box of this stuff a long while back, just kept forgetting to investigate this load. the ball was always hit POA and the buck always made a circle around it. group stayed tight out to 15 yards (buck made about a 4 inch ring @ 10yds, don't remember 15, but i was very surprised at how tight it was), which i think is about right for this load (at least for me). it was also reliable, etc.

granted, i also have (a little) #4, #1, #00, and slugs on hand. this buck/ball load was more of a curiosity thing, but after seeing the results i got, i can imagine it may come in handy. no matter how you cut it, i cant imagine ~400 grains of lead at 1000+fps being ineffective.

but then again, i'm asking b/c this is unproven and almost a novelty right now and there are those cases where something that to most people *should* obviously work ends up failing horribly for reasons that most people wouldn't anticipate. in other words, you never know, so why not ask.

[Chameleon Loco]

I have a box of pdx1 12ga ammo that I bought a few months ago, I have not tested it yet but it seems ok for defensive ammo.