Silver or gold?

[ACfixer]

I'm not a huge fan of precious metals, after 55 years of life I still don't understand why anyone needs them in a SHTF scenario. That being said, there are enough people out there that sincerely feel it should be part of the plan and even your investment portfolio. For you folks that feel PM's are wise to own, how much percentage do you feel is prudent because I hear 10% and up. Do you prefer silver or gold (or platinum for that matter)? I've dabbled a bit in silver bullion, but mostly for fun.

[ExtremeX]

The only bullion I have is beef flavored.

I never really got into precious metals.

[Calico1404]

I am a fan of PM, but not in the pure form.

Think about stacking $1.00 silver dollars. My theory is at a minimum I still have a dollar, at a maximum I have an ounce of silver at $17. If you add age to that coin then you may have $17 in silver and $50 in face value for collectors etc.

I thought about bars and ingots however when it comes down to it that is just a clump of metal, will that be useful to someone in a trade? Probably not as much as a shiny coin with a face value to it as well.

Just my 2 cents (get it?)

As far as SHTF PM will still have trade value vs a paper dollar bill. If someone came to you with 10-100 pieces of paper the only use they would have is for a fire. If someone came to you with a satchel filled with shiny metal, or jewelry you may have alternative uses for it.

[captkurt]

Precious metal is a good hedge against inflation, and quite possibly good as trade bait in a society collapse, but only once things have settled down to a normal trading situation.

Bars are probably only good as an investment (buy low, sell high) and would have little or no use in a SHTF situation.

Having a variety of fractional coins in gold and silver is probably a good idea, though you'd probably not need more than a few hundred dollars worth.

You'll probably have an easier time trading ammo and/or non-perishable food items, than a coin. So I'll invest in brass and lead for any kind of SHTF situation.

[ef9boy88]

If you watch the tends I would say silver, as an investment. Brass, lead and non perishables as SHTF items.
The downside to PM is that when it skyrockets it's hard to off load, but when it's low everybody you contacted to sell to will come running back trying to buy in low.

[smashycrashy]

I cannot imagine any reasonably competent financial advisor saying more than 10% is prudent. It is a single asset type within one asset class. You might really really like it but imagine it the same as having 10% of GE stock in your portfolio.

[mountainmark]

gold.

i started stacking around this time in 2014. we paid off credit card debt and after that i would randomly take $100 or $150....sometimes more and buy silver. the more i learned about silver, the less i was impressed with it.
some silver is a by product of mining copper, its an industrial metal blah blah......so i switched to buying gold in small amounts.

i prefer Gold Canadian Maple Leaves because the purity is noted on the coin, and they're affordable.

i can hide it from the government and its something i would like to pass down to my kids.....if i don't trade them for hot rod or gun stuff

[All Nav]

I own no PM, nor do I plan on doing so, but what has never made any sense to me is in a SHTF scenario, how do metals work as currency in barter? Say, Safeway is gone, everyone's hoarding, and my neighbor has 500 cans of beans, 50 of which I want to trade for. We agree on a fair price, and he wants gold. How do I give him part of of coin, bullion, or whatever? In it's current form, and PM be used in such a way? Just wonderin'....

[Calico1404]

Originally Posted by All Nav

I own no PM, nor do I plan on doing so, but what has never made any sense to me is in a SHTF scenario, how do metals work as currency in barter? Say, Safeway is gone, everyone's hoarding, and my neighbor has 500 cans of beans, 50 of which I want to trade for. We agree on a fair price, and he wants gold. How do I give him part of of coin, bullion, or whatever? In it's current form, and PM be used in such a way? Just wonderin'....

You don't, your neighbor has 50 cans of beans and he stipulates its worth, which in some cases may be 5 gold coins. But that is the costs of bartering. Also another reason I do not buy 10oz bars etc, keep it simple to 1oz coins etc.

Silver is also a large integrated part of solar, solar as you know is coming fast and hard. My thoughts are supply and demand will soon be balanced.

[ratled]

Gold... when you relocate out of the area you have access to some form of wealth that can be relatively converted and can be easily carried and concealed.

[Maltese Falcon]

I have a little of everything, 90% silver quarters/dimes, 1 oz Silver Eagles, 10 oz silver bars, 100 oz silver bars. I used to have a lot more gold eagles but sold most of that off to pay bills. I got them at around $800/$900/oz., sold in $1300-1350 range.

I do remember when silver hit $44 /oz, sold some off to pay for the Hawaii vacation...

.

[Baboosh]

Diversity is key. I keep enough reserve in the bank to live life normally for 1 year. Fully funded my child's UTMA account and first house fund. 25% of gross always goes to 401k, ROTH, mutual funds and investment account. 10% net goes to PMs.

All income from rental properties goes into an account and when there is enough for a down payment a new one is purchased.

Property, stocks, bonds, gold, silver, guns and ammo.

[NapalmCheese]

You wake up in the middle of the night to find your neighborhood is burning down. You grab your loved ones and pets, maybe some clothes, and head out the door to evacuate. You don't know where to go or what to do. The only money you have is what you have on you, what you can charge to a credit card, and what you can withdraw from an ATM.

So, you can live off your credit cards and whatever the bank will allow you to withdraw in a day, or you can exchange an ounce of gold at some coin shop and get $1000.00+ in fiat currency and not worry about whether the ATM still has cash, whether so and so takes credit, whether comms are up for the credit card readers to work, etc.

An ounce of gold is potentially easier to hide and carry than 12 hundred dollar bills. Twelve hundred dollar bills are easier to spend for your immediate needs however.

Speaking of fires, if you keep some cash around in your safe and your neighborhood burns down you'll be out all of that cash. At least with metals you'll find it all in the bottom of the safe...

[ACfixer]

Good stuff folks, keep it coming.

[Calico1404]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

You wake up in the middle of the night to find your neighborhood is burning down. You grab your loved ones and pets, maybe some clothes, and head out the door to evacuate. You don't know where to go or what to do. The only money you have is what you have on you, what you can charge to a credit card, and what you can withdraw from an ATM.

So, you can live off your credit cards and whatever the bank will allow you to withdraw in a day, or you can exchange an ounce of gold at some coin shop and get $1000.00+ in fiat currency and not worry about whether the ATM still has cash, whether so and so takes credit, whether comms are up for the credit card readers to work, etc.

An ounce of gold is potentially easier to hide and carry than 12 hundred dollar bills. Twelve hundred dollar bills are easier to spend for your immediate needs however.

Speaking of fires, if you keep some cash around in your safe and your neighborhood burns down you'll be out all of that cash. At least with metals you'll find it all in the bottom of the safe...

^ Ha! Good point! Fires burn cash, fires melt metals, but you still have the metal.

[wpage]

The cash will burn off in a fire and is not insurable...

[hunterb]

AMMO > GOLD in SHTF.
Use your ammo to take everyone's gold. Not everyone who has gold will have ammo...Not everyone who has food will have ammo....

But everyone who has ammo will have gold AND food.

[readysetgo]

Cash that is destroyed can be "recovered" through the Treasury Dept, I believe.

[BruceR]

For me, PMs are for when trouble hits and I need to permanently leave my home for good so as to rejoin my extended family in the central valley. I can't very well walk away from the equity in my home and the real estate industry may not be functional for quite awhile. So the transaction with a buyer becomes all cash -- and PM are cash to me.

A big attraction of PMs is portability, especially for large values.

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by readysetgo

Cash that is destroyed can be "recovered" through the Treasury Dept, I believe.

Not if it's ashes.

You have to have 51% of the bill.

This is why you can buy souvenir bottles filled with shredded $100 dollar bills. Bills that go out of circulation are shredded and therefore no longer recoverable.

[readysetgo]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

Not if it's ashes.

You have to have 51% of the bill.

This is why you can buy souvenir bottles filled with shredded $100 dollar bills. Bills that go out of circulation are shredded and therefore no longer recoverable.

It's possible even without 51%. I can't find the story but I've seen a payout documented.

It would fall under "mutilated" and requires "supporting evidence" and even then it still seems to fall under .gov discretion.

I guess complete ashes might not get an approval in a lot of cases.



https://www.moneyfactory.gov/service...edemption.html

Redeem Mutilated Currency
The BEP redeems mutilated currency as a free public service. Lawful holders of mutilated currency may receive a redemption at full value when:

Mutilated currency is currency which has been damaged to the extent that:

Its condition is such that its value is questionable and the currency must be forwarded to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing for examination by trained experts before any redemption is made. One example of mutilated currency may be bills missing relevant security features.

Currency can become mutilated in any number of ways. The most common causes are: fire, water, chemicals, and explosives; animal, insect, or rodent damage; and petrification or deterioration by burying.

Free Public Service

Clearly more than 50 percent of a note identifiable as United States currency is present, along with sufficient remnants of any relevant security feature and clearly more than one-half of the original note remains; or,

Fifty percent or less of a note identifiable as United States currency is present and the method of mutilation and supporting evidence demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Treasury that the missing portions have been totally destroyed.

Every year the Treasury Department handles approximately 30,000 claims and redeems mutilated currency valued at over $30 million. Your money is important. However, please know that heavy volume and the precise nature of the work may result in lengthy wait times. Please follow the submission instructions carefully to help us process your claim in the most efficient manner.

Side note: WTF up with the website name? Money Factory!!!

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by hunterb

AMMO > GOLD in SHTF.
Use your ammo to take everyone's gold. Not everyone who has gold will have ammo...Not everyone who has food will have ammo....

But everyone who has ammo will have gold AND food.

Yeah but I have ammo and food already. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that pretty much everyone in this sub-forum has at least a bare minimum 1,000 rounds of each military caliber and at least 200 of any hunting calibers. In addition you should have at least a year's worth of food. I'm not an armed robber now, nor do I ever want to be one.

[Hugga Nugga]

Not to argue pm's or not, but if the choice is between silver and gold, i would choose silver. Typically and historically silver has traded at 1/16th the cost of gold. Right now that ratio is around 1/70th. I believe it is undervalued. I like mercury dimes for their fractional use if needed to barter possibly, and 1 oz silver coins from state mints that are recognizable like the US Silver Eagle and Canadian Mapleleaf for a store of value. I think everyone should have some real money outside the banking system and I see a SHTF in the form of a currency reset where precious metals will be a way to preserve wealth.

I also have a sh&t ton of ammo and plenty of emergency food as well; You can't eat metal.

[Bigedski]

Dimes, Quarters, halves & silver dollars in a pinch it's easer to spend.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by Hugga Nugga

Not to argue pm's or not, but if the choice is between silver and gold, i would choose silver. Typically and historically silver has traded at 1/16th the cost of gold. Right now that ratio is around 1/70th. I believe it is undervalued. I like mercury dimes for their fractional use if needed to barter possibly, and 1 oz silver coins from state mints that are recognizable like the US Silver Eagle and Canadian Mapleleaf for a store of value. I think everyone should have some real money outside the banking system and I see a SHTF in the form of a currency reset where precious metals will be a way to preserve wealth.

I also have a sh&t ton of ammo and plenty of emergency food as well; You can't eat metal.

Pretty much spot on as to where my thinking is, and I prefer silver as well. I've bought mostly Silver Eagles but I've bought some various rounds from Sunshine Mint as well.

[smashycrashy]

All the shtf/tfh stuff aside, for those with an actual investment portfolio, pm shouldn't be a very large percentage. If you are hedging against inflation, there are better things (a house is a great inflation hedge) and pm's are poor investment vehicles, tax treatment alone make them a tough investment choice.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by smashycrashy

...tax treatment alone make them a tough investment choice.

How so?

[Hugga Nugga]

it is not a true investment, it more like an insurance policy. I look at it as an asset class. I would rather save my cash in pm, than buy a car or a boat, or anything else that is guaranteed to depreciate.

I, too, would like to understand how physical pm suffers from tough tax treatment. Perhaps if you buy gold or silver via ETF that might be valid concern, but that isn't really buying pm's

[Maltese Falcon]

Originally Posted by smashycrashy

pm's are poor investment vehicles, tax treatment alone make them a tough investment choice.

Kind of like reporting your Use Tax for internet ammo purchases?

Not.

.

[JAFGO]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

.......... how much percentage do you feel is prudent because I hear 10% and up........

Most financial advisers I've heard or read commenting on PMs recommend no more than 5% of your net worth in PMs. And those comments are usually prefaced with the caveat "if you must own PMs......"

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by JAFGO

Most financial advisers I've heard or read commenting on PMs recommend no more than 5% of your net worth in PMs. And those comments are usually prefaced with the caveat "if you must own PMs......"

Dave Ramsey says 0%, Jim Cramer says 10% or lower, Clark Howard says the same. Edelman says 5%. So it looks like you're pretty close on the numbers there at least with the celeb advisors.

The people that have told me 10%+ are people I know, actual investors that have it as part of their wealth. But I really have no idea whether or not that's been a good decision, I suppose if they're at peace with it then that's what matters.

[Blade Gunner]

PM’s have a place in most investment portfolios. Understand they are hedge defense investments. Although there are many ways to participate in the PM markets with different risk factors. Everything from futures, mining stocks, PM trusts, and physical PM (usually limit to gold and silver).

[sanjoseskater]

I have bought silver....... by far my worst investment ever.... Buy a classic car all original/high demand they will appreciate far better than any PM. Plus when u sell a classic car the seller will want to give u cash to avoid sales/ tax you will make a good profit tax free.

[FeuerFrei]

The best thing you can do is stay the hell out of debt. ANY debt.
Zero debt lifestyle tends to be a lot less stressful IME.
Buying what you need vs want, fixes a lot of problems too.
In the end it can all be lost/taken/destroyed etc.. PM's included.

*"neither a borrower nor a lender be"

Sent using a long string and 2 Dixie cups

[wpage]

10% is a good baseline.

[SonofWWIIDI]

Bacon, the answer is always bacon.




But yes gold and silver, in coin form. Small bits instead of giant chunks. JMHO.

[GW]

Originally Posted by Hugga Nugga

Not to argue pm's or not, but if the choice is between silver and gold, i would choose silver. Typically and historically silver has traded at 1/16th the cost of gold. Right now that ratio is around 1/70th. I believe it is undervalued. I like mercury dimes for their fractional use if needed to barter possibly, and 1 oz silver coins from state mints that are recognizable like the US Silver Eagle and Canadian Mapleleaf for a store of value. I think everyone should have some real money outside the banking system and I see a SHTF in the form of a currency reset where precious metals will be a way to preserve wealth.

I also have a sh&t ton of ammo and plenty of emergency food as well; You can't eat metal.

Gotta agree with this.Sliver because it's easier to trade, but you need a balance of food, protection and tradeable goods, including silver (or gold).

[Exile Machine]

In before some Geek mentions Bitcoin...

-Mark

[SDPatriot]

I voted for gold. A few years ago I sold off some silver bullion. It was really hard finding a buyer. When I went to the big metal dealers I got a really undervalued offer. Tried to sell a brand new Repousse Dinner Silver set for 4 and the offers were laughable. Do not use silver items as stores of value. Stick to bullion. The hassle is not worth it. Had 0 problems selling gold bullion coins.

[Jimmy's]

Aluminum>silver