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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#41
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Isn't it just the FOP here? In other states they can't get away with being this bad.
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"You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws. That's insane!" -- Penn Jillette Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal. |
#42
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The court system is so messed up, we need a revolution. Executions need to start happening fast and furious for violent offenses. Kidnap someone, even if they get let go, a 50 cent bullet to the head. Swift justice is the deterrent, what we have encourages crime. As long as there are heavy warnings before a law goes into effect, it should be legal. For one year, announce "On July 1st, 2010, anyone caught putting graffiti on someone else's property will be summarily executed", and I bet graffiti will be a thing of the past. There is no injustice in that if people are warned adequetely.
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Free Gun & Ammo $$$ from the State http://scoweb.sco.ca.gov/UCP/ See how many CalGunners are finding major money on this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=172513 |
#43
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Sad thing but....
Its a sad thing this has happened to good police, but the Feinstein and Brady anti gunners were quick to take advantage of this, I saw on channel 2 news that Brady wants a control on ammo, what that means i dont know, but be ready for another Los Angeles to be used to ban assault weapons, It will be Oakland to be used to control ammo sales.
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#44
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I'm not saying that. I'm saying get prepared. Do you have a better idea?
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#45
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Reach out to the OPD officers who are hurting. Let them know we support them. And let them know that citizens who choose to arm themselves have their back on the street. |
#46
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Very nicely said OP! I agree 100% and know exactly how you feel.
If every law-abiding citizen reported criminal actions or actually did something about it.. it would go a very long way.. Salinas is real close to where I live. And I've heard of residents getting sick of the gang violence. But these scared mother ******s don't do **** about it. This is pretty much how America is now.. everyone wants a hand out and wants someone to wipe their a** for them. It's really sad, and I'm pissed at society for what it has become.
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"As long as we have faith in our own cause and an unconquerable will to win, victory will not be denied us." - Winston Churchill "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, 1790 |
#47
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When I heard about this Oakland shooting taking place, it didn't surprise me because of all the crazy things I've seen. I don't know if you guys have seen this video before but there's a girl that gets beaten up by at least 50 people in Oakland. The story behind it is she was hit on by a pimp at a night club and she said something to the likes of f off. The pimp sends his ***** goons to literally beat a helpless girl to death but she survives.
here's a link to it though the quality is pretty bad from the original video I've seen of it... I had to search a bit to find it again (it's pretty graphic so viewer discretion is advised) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgWmY0PGGJY |
#49
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. Last edited by GuyW; 03-28-2009 at 6:15 PM.. |
#50
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In my personal opinion I agree that most people just sit around and whine. As far as my experiaence goes, I was involved in a attempted murder case. After a brief sensless altercation, an angry ex con decided that he was pissed off at the world and took his suburban determined to end our lives. He hit my buddy (Recon Marine, just back from Iraq) tossed him 15ft in the air, then aimed his car at me. i was able to jump away, nearly being pinned between another car. As he fled the scene at 40 mph he pushed his passenger out of the car. When the cops caught up with him, he rammed their cars and tried to flee again. Long story short, he has been out on bail since 2006 and the trial keeps getting delayed. I call in everytime I get a letter but they always push the trial back. So, yes i want to be proactive in fighting crime but the courts don't help and crimals some how get more rights than they deserve. I have always agreed that a bullet is cheaper than keeping a chronic violent offender in jail. So I will do all I can to support my community and protect my family but until we can get the laws turned into our favor, we have to be careful. If it was up to me i would be patrolling my neighborhood with my AR and a sig on my thigh.
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#51
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Every crime witness who doesn't have a CCW (and can't get one) needs to tell the cops and Prosecutors to "go to hell, I won't testify". Tell the judges you won't testify and tell them why.
If enough people did this, the system *might* take notice and rethink its victim disarmament policies. . |
#52
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In my situation I would have had plenty of time to draw and fire atleast one well aimed shot into the vehicle. I saw the vehicle go twords my friend, hit him and then aim twords me. My first instinct was to go after my friend to help (might just be the Marine in me to aid a wounded brother) I ran twords the car to get to my friend. If I was armed I would have probably shot and then went to aid. Can't say for sure. Things happen fast and you can only rely on your training and experiences. I believe until we as responsible citizens are able to carry, the criminal element will continue to pray on us without remorse and severe consiquences.
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#53
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Reason has seldom failed us because it has seldom been tried Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion -- Edward Abbey |
#54
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Ok, the OP is talking about my post. I was talking about a person I know that was at ACH outside when they started bringing the down officers in. I never said they were not supposed to be mad, I was pointing out that according to the person who was there, they were extremely mad and word around town is people think they just ran in the apartment intent on killing the suspect and not too worried about the other people in the building.
Somebody already cleared up that they planned for an hour before they went in, so I would think they were more focused and together at that point. I felt you were trying to make my post sound like something it wasn't but whatever, As far as ideas......? I'll be glad to escort you and anybody else that want to go to the hardest blocks in Oakland, where you can open carry unloaded pistols and slinged riffles all day long up and down the street. Other then that, you won't do much without getting shall issue CCW and convincing the masses to get a gun and ccw (it would soon get around that most people at any given time are packing).
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#55
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KRON interviewed several masked officers at a shooting range. They covered their name plates and badge numbers for the cameras. Their voices were disguised; because they would be demoted or fired. The first amendment doesn't mean a damned thing to the anti-second amendment crowd either. STFU if you aren't on their banwagon! In fact, many of the sponsors of the new Fairness Doctrine (aimed at talk radio) are also on the NRA's list of enemies on Capitol Hill... Last edited by cousinkix1953; 03-29-2009 at 8:52 PM.. |
#56
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#57
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I thought this was relevant.
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#58
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Personally, I find this attitude outrageous. Furthermore, the cops tell me that THEY would have a hard time living in my neighborhood. But a CCW would still be intolerable to them. |
#59
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So they're looking at it from the perspective of outnumbered cops in an already dangerous area with guns around and one more gun is exactly that, one more gun. From your perspective its 'I'm surrounded by gangs and guns and I want to protect myself' which I think is perfectly fine and also your right. You have to ask yourself though, if you were a LEO would you like the idea of armed civilians in a gang neighborhood potentially dispensing vigilante justice against gang members already shooting each other, and other cops, up? It just makes a volatile situation more deadly. In the end both parties are scared. |
#60
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"You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws. That's insane!" -- Penn Jillette Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal. |
#61
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Nice job regurgitating the Brady play book and giving cover to elitist LEOs who don't deserve it....
....as if residents of Oakland CA who pass a background check are any different than citizens in the 40 free states that do issue CCWs, and where CCW works just fine - for 20 years now. What IS different about CA from those other 40 states is that we have LEOs who either a) can't / won't really think for themselves about guns; or b) don't give a crap about everyday real-world safety of citizens; or c) don't give a crap about anything but their salary, OT, pension, benefits, and what toy they're gonna buy next to entertain themselves... Quote:
Last edited by GuyW; 03-29-2009 at 11:57 AM.. |
#62
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I can't go for the whole "I'm the police and i'm scared for my safety so screw your rights" thing. Nobody forced anybody to become a police officer, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. That is no excuse to put down ccw's to law abiding citizens. Local agencies could run firearms training programs and run ad's to get people to come out and train with their firearm for a small charge. I also wouldn't be against making (by law) anybody who gets issued a ccw have to do some type of situational/tactical training ever so often anyway.
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#63
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There aren't enough cops, and they have no control over the neighborhoods. As has been discussed here to no end, my right to self defense should not be trumped because someone else feels nervous about it. |
#64
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i'm on the list for june to take the class to get my CCW, and i'm talking to friends and family about ab357 and ab11?? and printing letters for anyone who procrastinates or can't afford it. its time to fight! make polititions fear for their jobs by making phone calls and sending letters. Question: is it more effective to send one letter per person, or if i go door to door and send in thousands of signatures on one letter? |
#65
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#66
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I'd like to make myself clear. I'm for CCW. I agree that people should be able to defend themselves. Its a right.
In situations like this, specifically Oakland, I like to be able to see things from both sides. We've seen how bipolar the attitude is in Oakland. We've seen how volatile the situation is over there. It's cops versus gangers. Now it has the potential to be cops versus citizens because of the perceived martyrdom of Mixon. In some neighborhoods the gangers look like the regular citizens. It's like the insurgency in Iraq. Who is the enemy? The guy with the gun? That could be a CCW citizen. Police go in see a guy with a gun who may be a ganger, or a CCW defending himself. Either way they are already afraid for their lives, even more so now with the recent killings. What are they to think? The cautious CCW attitude in Oakland is understandable and even justifiable based on the perceived safety of the officers individually. What I'm talking about here is each officers own personal view of their safety. I'm not talking politics or political agendas or governments. I'm sure you guys can agree and can sympathize with cops who have to go into neighborhoods full of guns and gangs. Not all citizens are logical and reasonable people. Its not black and white between citizens and criminals. Some law abiding citizens can be just as crazy as criminals. Give that person a gun and you have potential trouble. How would you feel as a cop going into a situation with armed criminals and armed citizens who may be emotionally charged and irrational? Its dangerous. Now if this was the case in a safer city like San Jose or San Diego, I'd think it was ridiculous. Like in San Diego where they don't issue CCW's for political and personal beliefs. I don't like that. But please make no mistake. I'm for CCW. In all this I'm just thinking of officers own thoughts in regards to their own safety. CCW in a case like Oakland has to be done carefully and methodically to make sure it doesn't make things worse. Quote:
It's not the same in other states because the situation was never allowed to spiral to this level of chaos. Other states retained their gun rights and thus kept criminals in check. CA enacted these dumb laws which built up a situation where criminals are out of control in certain areas. The options in this case are let the citizens CCW, which I agree with let me again say, which will lead to reduced crime. How will it affect a very chaotic situation right away? A city with high crime and you dump a bunch of armed citizens into it. In the most extreme case you'll have a war zone (notice I said extreme case). In other cases you'll have vigilantes running around. Is that ok? A vigilante situation can be good and bad. I guess it depends on how it plays out. In either case the risk of vigilantes running around has the potential to create more trouble. In the end I like order. I hate chaos. I'd like to see the problem resolved in an orderly fashion if possible. Last edited by JoeC; 03-29-2009 at 3:00 PM.. |
#67
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The police in Oakland had every RIGHT to be mad. Mad at the fact that the "bad guys" get out early. That the bad guy doesn't get slammed hard for breaking the rules over and over. They have the right to be mad that their bosses are more concerned about political favor than protecting them. They should be mad that the good guys can't compete with the bad guys.
Maybe what is needed is that everyone that is sick of the bad guys getting away with it to stand up and say ENOUGH. Instead of passing gun laws that make it harder for those that follow the law to defend themselves they should be more concerned in dealing with the bad guy and making the laws stick. Making the sentence stick. I grew up around law enforcement and can say a lot of them are frustrated they bust the same dirtbags over and over and they were walking the street again before the ink was dry on the police report. Hell I live in a so called "good neighborhood" and have qualms of walking the streets by myself at night. |
#68
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As for if I was an LEO in a gang infested neighborhood... No, I wouldn't want them to take to vigilantism, because that would be a violation of someone's rights. I would like to see them armed, trained, even patrolling to interrupt any crimes in progress they may stumble across. At the very least, armed and trained to defend themselves, their family and their neighbors should the need arise. Basically, what I'm saying is that anybody who would use the excuses you listed as a reason to oppose any aspect of gun ownership by law-abiding citizens is a moron. Quote:
I do agree, though, that the only thing I miss is hanging out with Calgunners! Quote:
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Criminality and rap "music"/culture go hand in hand. Quote:
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Arguing a position from a purely emotional stance is a bad move, especially when facts show that the position is 100% incorrect. If we want to argue using the same illogical emotional argument as "citizens with CHLs can be dangerous to cops", we can also argue that it's perfectly fine and normal to be afraid of the dark, because you can't tell what's there! It could be anything out in that dark, so be sure and leave a light on. Dunno about you, but I don't want to be "protected" by people who are afraid of the bogeyman lurking in the dark. [QUOTE=JoeC;2240307]Now if this was the case in a safer city like San Jose or San Diego, I'd think it was ridiculous. Like in San Diego where they don't issue CCW's for political and personal beliefs. I don't like that. [/quote Huh? It's more logical to issue CCWs in safer cities!? I don't know about you, but I never felt (or seen) the need to carry a gun in Palo Alto or Hillsborough. I can tell you, though, that taking a gun into SF or Oakland always was an appealing thought. Why bother carrying where you're already safe? I always wanted to keep a loaded AK on me in some parts of Oakland.... so I'd be safer. Quote:
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It's like the old saying: when life gives you lemons... In other words: quit drinking the FUD-flavored Koolaid. |
#69
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I'm not drinking FUD koolaid. I understand what you're saying and I agree with it. I'm not talking about the country as a whole here but the situation in Oakland specifically.
Reading what Smokey wrote: Quote:
You say: Quote:
I think the civilians in Oakland should be armed. I'm just trying to say, in probably too many words, that based on Smokey's quote, the cops in Oakland seem to be afraid of more guns because of how bad things are, and that is understandable. I'm not trying to justify anti-CCW attitude. |
#70
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If the truth be told, they will talk about endangering the public by allowing private citizens to CCW. However, in truth, the cops are far more worried about themselves than they are about you or me. And that's why I find it so interesting that cops in the past have defended 150 PC. I wonder why that is? What I'm wondering is, what do you mean by vigilante justice? Is it vigilante justice to want an equal opportunity to defend yourself, family and home from the barbarians? Is it vigilante justice to report a crime in progress and have the means to defend yourself in the event the barbarians discover who reported them? Or are we just supposed to do our duty and accept death when it comes? I'll use your words and ask you, if you were a LEO would you like the idea of being disarmed in public against the barbarians that have no regard for your life or the life of your loved ones? We already have the answers to how they feel about the neighborhoods they work in, because they are afraid to live there. You couldn't pay them enough to move their families into those neighborhoods, even though they are armed. Most of the people that can afford to leave have left, and the barbarians have taken over the neighborhoods and terrorize those that aren't so lucky. The cops point a finger at the public and say that it's our fault that criminals get away with committing crimes. Yet if someone does workup the courage or maybe they're just stupid, and choose to inform on the neighborhood barbarians, chances are the cops will be no where when the barbarians strike back. And when that happens, the response is hey we can't be held responsible for protecting each person. While I understand that, what about protecting the people that are trying to make a difference? What's very interesting is that you addressed the additional carnage that might occur if citizens were allowed to shoot back. Do you really think that it would be worse than it is already? Innocent people are dying at the hands of the barbarians that become even more emboldened with each person they rape, rob, murder, and frighten. Gangs become emboldened, when the law abiding citizens are unable to resist. Do the cops spend that extra effort and set up shop in the neighborhood to discourage the criminals, NO! They may do a few extra patrols through the neighborhood, but generally it's business as usual. Do they actually bring in extra units to provide the coverage and concentrate on a neighborhood, NO! That would cost money. Years ago, I suggested that a temporary command post be set up in a neighborhood with this kind of problem to give the neighborhood the support they need. The response was simply, it's too expensive. I personally look at gang problems the same way a firefighter looks at a fire. You stay until the fire is out. Let the law abiding arm themselves to help put out the fire, and quit fighting against us. Last edited by Piper; 03-29-2009 at 7:20 PM.. |
#71
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Much has been said in this thread about CCW and LEO's. I have seen LEO's referred to as "fascist" and "elitist". Some have said that the rank and file LEO's should rebel against upper management in support of CCW. Of those of you that feel that way, what in your opinion, should LEO's do? How should they do it?
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One guy walks over to the black rifle area and starts gazing. An employee asked him if he knew what he wanted. The guy answered "Not sure......definitely something black.............and short...............and tactical." "I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him." -Mark Twain |
#72
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#73
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#74
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When did you arrive from another planet. The NRA will provide it's members with their list of our enemies on Capitol Hill. You can get a list of the politicians who sponsored the Fairness Doctrine from most of it's proponents. Be sure to sound sympathetic when you write them.
Sorry, that I don't have any links to a 20 year old KRON 4 news video. The free speech war between McNamara and Pyle is no secret either. Pyle also has his own website. Still don't believe it? Talk to former state sens. McClinton and Mountjoy... |
#75
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That is basically all I was trying to say. And it's understandable considering the risks they face. Everything else I said was just trying to show how it's understandable.
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