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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-19-2019, 10:00 PM
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Default What are people actually doing?

The premise of the arguments works for the state not the people. Has the judge read the 2nd. Its the most straight forward law in the Constitution. Maybe if the lawyer read this to the judge he would change his mind.

Amendment II
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

What are they arguing about again? Help me? Whatever side is doing this isn't working. Alls we do is talk talk talk give our money away to whoever is going to make you feel good about going to a California court and preserving your god given right and how is that working out. iIs boring, its a waste. "We the People" have losts its sand. Legal this legal that and we just bend over and take it like good little cucks.

Its sad to read all of these brilliant legal minds on CalGun. Nothing has changed, been watching this train wreck on this site forever it seems, and all the money all the whining has gotten "We the People" is more stringent gun laws more freedoms being torn away more government oppression less free speech less control of YOUR state Less control of what you say....its ****ing pathetic.

When was the last time any of you read the "Declaration of Independence".
I for one am sick of this horse dooky. Reading about some black robe over educated waste of tax payer money decide what you can and can not do THAT IS A FEDERAL law is just insanity. The time for talking is over. Your whole life is about to be run by Gavin Newsom. EVERYTHING!. What your kids are taught the doctor you see Where you drive who you visit ....

I don't see any sand on this site. I see people talking and talking and talking... I see like minded all American God Fearing people being pushed around and just shrugging their shoulders and not caring about anything but what is on their 60in flat screen. Watching bad shows Bad news and just acting badly when it comes to Liberty and Freedom.

This is all our fault. They don't feel threatened, They are full pedal to the metal. Voting isn't going to work. They control the media They control the schools. They control your transportation. They control your communication. They control your health care. Your name is on everything now. You don't think Big Tech is helping Gavin grab more of your life. Its a waste talking about this anymore. We the people are actually telling the Government of Commiefornia about our weaponry. You think the 2nd was put in for hunting like they want you to believe? That's what it sounds like reading this comic book.

The founders must be going banana's in heaven. No God No Guts and No Guns This is going to be Komifornia in just a few short years. Yes, I want and would welcome an Armed take over of the California Government. I am just looking for somebody a lot smarter than me who could organize and put this into action. I have not been to war I have not had people blown up around me. I have not experienced anything like that. But neither did my Great Grandfather of 5x's during the American Revolution. I am ready I just need to be led. Enough is Enough.
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
What are they arguing about again? Help me? Whatever side is doing this isn't working. Alls we do is talk talk talk
Aren't you doing exactly that in this rant?

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Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
Legal this legal that and we just bend over and take it like good little cucks.
While it is a long haul, legal methods, at the moment, are the best method


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Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
Its sad to read all of these brilliant legal minds on CalGun. Nothing has changed, been watching this train wreck on this site forever it seems
Been lurking so long you have a whole 19 posts, maybe you should step up and put money and effort behind your words.

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Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
I don't see any sand on this site. I see people talking and talking and talking...
Again, Like you are doing here

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Originally Posted by surfcity View Post

The founders must be going banana's in heaven. No God No Guts and No Guns ----I am ready I just need to be led. Enough is Enough.
So that means you are a self identified follower.

Surfcity, I applaud your enthusiasm. Now try and channel it in a positive way instead of insulting all the folks here on Calguns.

Do you volunteer for any of the organizations that are set up to try and help us in even a small way? GOA, 2AF, CRPA, NRA etc. Do you take people that have never shot anything more than a nerf gun to the range and introduce them to the 'gun world'. Maybe You can join the military so that you can gain those experiences and leadership skills that you say don't have.

From what I can tell we are not at the point of armed insurrection that you IMO seem to be advocating and like many of us hope we never get to that point.
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2019, 7:39 AM
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https://bigleaguepolitics.com/pre-cr...al-media-meme/
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2019, 7:41 AM
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https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/19/c...e-melting-pot/
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2019, 8:41 AM
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Its sad to read all of these brilliant legal minds on CalGun. Nothing has changed, been watching this train wreck on this site forever it seems
Did you just **** on us for taking time out of are day to sit there supporting our side then come back here and kindly report to you and others what we heard .

Really ! KMA jag off , go away .
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allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY

Last edited by Metal God; 08-20-2019 at 8:51 AM..
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:28 AM
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Posts moved from a litigation thread, where they were off-topic, to their own thread in Politics and Activism.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #7  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:44 AM
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I'd like to add that when the judge was drilling the state , That was when are guy ( Mr Brady ) was up to bat . Our guy had to stand there as the judge and state went back and forth several times . Now that I'm thinking about it the judge brought up most of the concerns many of you have asked about and are disappointed they were not discussed more from are side . I think the state was doing such a poor job answering them , maybe enough was said about them between the judge and state are side thought thank you judge for making our points . He then went to the system as his main talking point . The judge had already destroyed the state on many of the other important issues him self . I saw it a couple times during the day when the judge was thinking one way but as the topic was discussed further he seem to change his thinking a bit on the subject . Maybe are side was thinking as the judge and the state went at it . That's what we were going to say anyways why repeat it and let the judge think on it more . The judge seemed to have a good grasp on things as far as where we were concerned lets let him marinade right there and not give him time to hear more from the state on these other things .
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Tolerate
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY

Last edited by Metal God; 08-20-2019 at 8:13 PM..
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
The premise of the arguments works for the state not the people. Has the judge read the 2nd. Its the most straight forward law in the Constitution. Maybe if the lawyer read this to the judge he would change his mind.

Amendment II
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

What are they arguing about again? Help me? Whatever side is doing this isn't working. Alls we do is talk talk talk give our money away to whoever is going to make you feel good about going to a California court and preserving your god given right and how is that working out. iIs boring, its a waste. "We the People" have losts its sand. Legal this legal that and we just bend over and take it like good little cucks.

Its sad to read all of these brilliant legal minds on CalGun. Nothing has changed, been watching this train wreck on this site forever it seems, and all the money all the whining has gotten "We the People" is more stringent gun laws more freedoms being torn away more government oppression less free speech less control of YOUR state Less control of what you say....its ****ing pathetic.

When was the last time any of you read the "Declaration of Independence".
I for one am sick of this horse dooky. Reading about some black robe over educated waste of tax payer money decide what you can and can not do THAT IS A FEDERAL law is just insanity. The time for talking is over. Your whole life is about to be run by Gavin Newsom. EVERYTHING!. What your kids are taught the doctor you see Where you drive who you visit ....

I don't see any sand on this site. I see people talking and talking and talking... I see like minded all American God Fearing people being pushed around and just shrugging their shoulders and not caring about anything but what is on their 60in flat screen. Watching bad shows Bad news and just acting badly when it comes to Liberty and Freedom.

This is all our fault. They don't feel threatened, They are full pedal to the metal. Voting isn't going to work. They control the media They control the schools. They control your transportation. They control your communication. They control your health care. Your name is on everything now. You don't think Big Tech is helping Gavin grab more of your life. Its a waste talking about this anymore. We the people are actually telling the Government of Commiefornia about our weaponry. You think the 2nd was put in for hunting like they want you to believe? That's what it sounds like reading this comic book.

The founders must be going banana's in heaven. No God No Guts and No Guns This is going to be Komifornia in just a few short years. Yes, I want and would welcome an Armed take over of the California Government. I am just looking for somebody a lot smarter than me who could organize and put this into action. I have not been to war I have not had people blown up around me. I have not experienced anything like that. But neither did my Great Grandfather of 5x's during the American Revolution. I am ready I just need to be led. Enough is Enough.
Settle down, Beavis. You're dangerously close to advocating for violence. Maybe take a break from the internet for a while. A little perspective might be good.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:57 AM
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Waiting for the courts and taking my friends shooting.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:04 AM
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Honestly, advocating armed revolution against the government could get you red-flagged and your guns would be taken away. You’ve got to calm down and smarten up. It’s frustrating to live in this state but it is the way it is because people have voted to make it that way. The courts are the only redress
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcity View Post
...snip....Amendment II
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

What are they arguing about again? Help me? ...snip...
Simple, they are arguing about what is a Militia, it is something organized or just people. Yeah, also what is a weapon of war vs not since even a muzzle loading musket was once a weapon of war.

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...snip....preserving your god given right and how is that working out. iIs boring, its a waste...snip...
Is it really a god given right ? do you really believe that ? The founders gave us that right, not god unless he talked to our country's founders and told them to put it in. Its just a right. I do happen to think it is the right that protects all the others and therefore the most important, but god given ? that is a big stretch.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:51 AM
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To answer the question we read the Declaration of Independence every Independence Day !

We currently seem to have more rights than what most gun owners even use.
Im of course asking how often people go to a range and enjoy the challenge of marksmanship? RKBA needs people who actually do shoot in order for the right to exist.

Sitting somewhere with the ball game on, posting on calgunns is not the same as exercising the right.

Mikevr --the source of rights can be found in the declaration.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
The founders gave us that right.
No, they enumerated already existing fundamental rights.

This is a theme that is constant throughout all of the founder's writings; you would be well served to read them.

Fundamental rights also have absolutely nothing to do with God. They exist with or without the existence of God, IMO.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:47 AM
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No, they enumerated already existing fundamental rights.

This is a theme that is constant throughout all of the founder's writings; you would be well served to read them.

Fundamental rights also have absolutely nothing to do with God. They exist with or without the existence of God, IMO.
"Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.... "
Many prefer to believe God created everything including the human race. People who believe that do call these God given rights, all based on what is called the word of God via old and new testament.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
No, they enumerated already existing fundamental rights.

This is a theme that is constant throughout all of the founder's writings; you would be well served to read them.

Fundamental rights also have absolutely nothing to do with God. They exist with or without the existence of God, IMO.
Here is a good explanation of "natural and inalienable rights or what our founders would have called "natural rights":

https://www.docsoffreedom.org/studen...ienable-rights

Rights "from God" was a concept from the English philosopher John Locke, and others, whom Jefferson was familiar with and whose philosophy he used in creating the Declaration of Independence:

"Most scholars today believe that Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke. Locke wrote his Second Treatise of Government in 1689 at the time of England's Glorious Revolution, which overthrew the rule of James II.

Locke wrote that all individuals are equal in the sense that they are born with certain "inalienable" natural rights. That is, rights that are God-given and can never be taken or even given away. Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property." -quoted from https://www.crf-usa.org/foundations-...al-rights.html

So, like Jefferson and Locke, I'm "cool" with my natural rights as derived or duly endowed by God
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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Worst.
Pep talk.
Ever.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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"Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.... "
Many prefer to believe God created everything including the human race. People who believe that do call these God given rights, all based on what is called the word of God via old and new testament.
That's all well and good but we are a nation of laws which must be defended or shot down in court . It would be nice but we can't call the invisible man ( GOD ) to the stand so throwing out God as why we get to bare arms doesn't help .
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allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:07 PM
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I keep and bear arms as a deterrent to actual violence. It's also a fun hobby, as well.

Advocating for actual violence gets you nowhere fast, man. It also alienates people, the type of level-headed people you will need on your side watching your six, both metaphorically and, God forbid, in the literal sense should things go side ways (and I don't mean in combat alone, far more likely it could be disaster response).

The 2A is meant to protect the rest of them, the preservation of individual rights is, in turn, meant to preserve a government FOR the people BY the people. I.e. it is at its heart a mechanism of community. You're not growing the community by being impatient and NOT subjugating your more base impulses to the rule of law and due process-- these are what keeps a community harmonious and strong. I only wish I had the training/ability/opportunity to do what Michel and other courtroom warriors do to protect our rights. To show good cause, and re-establish the source of our rights in a rational manner and in the correct forum for peaceful redress.

In the meantime, I participate in local 2A groups and make donations, for what that's worth. Take your friends shooting, volunteer, when you hear someone repeating false/erroneous/incorrect information regarding firearms, weapons, or stats, politely educate/engage them in a conversation when you have the opportunity. There are many things you can do to change people's minds one at a time. Your rights are also everyone else's rights, but if your first instinct is to use bullets instead of words, it makes me think you don't have the right mindset, yet.

I'm not religious, but I try to live a life of example, and people who disagree with me often still hold me and my opinion with respect because they regard me as a "responsible, decent person." Be more temperate, judicious, and kind to those around you, help your fellow man/woman. Show people that guns aren't to be feared, but tyranny is. Because you possess a weapon, does not mean you are a threat to society, you are a deterrent of threats to society.

I think the keyboard warrior thing applies to our perceptions of how powerful the opposition really is, keeping in mind that social media is less of a magnifying glass and more of a signal amplifier. If we rallied everyone that browses this forum (regardless of ideology or party affiliation) that has the right to vote, and encouraged them to see the wisdom of voting against gun control measures, we would, indeed, have the numbers necessary to fight the tide.

I don't like socialism, I'm not a Marxist, although I've read more Marx than most Marxists I know. However, I can respect the Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, etc. that understand the necessity of KBA to their cause and rights. I'm not a homophobe, nor am I homosexual myself, but again, how many years did the LGBT community protect themselves with their rights? We don't hear about the lynchings, rapes, murders, assaults, and such that were thwarted/didn't happen because those individuals made themselves hard targets. I realize this argument is hard to support with data/empirical evidence, but food for thought.

The source of rights, IMO, is in a way "natural," some philosophers have used "God" or the "divine" to anchor them, but to me it means the same thing. The source of these rights goes further back than just the Declaration of Independence, it's a tradition that is easily traceable to the Protestant intellectual/philosophical traditions began by Martin Luther, but could be traced further back than that (The Magna Carta, Republican Rome, pre-Seleucid Middle-Eastern city-states, Athens, etc.). That isn't to say that the rights themselves are Eurocentric, they're absolutely universal-- it just so happened that these individuals were in a position to elucidate these ideas, pen them, and be in a place and point in time where they could be preserved, studied, and transmitted. These rights are universally human, and could be applied to, should it ever come to pass that we are not the only intelligent life in the universe, other intelligent species.

Last edited by SemperInExcretiaSumus; 08-20-2019 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:27 PM
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Is it really a god given right ? do you really believe that ? The founders gave us that right, not god unless he talked to our country's founders and told them to put it in. Its just a right. I do happen to think it is the right that protects all the others and therefore the most important, but god given ? that is a big stretch.
Literally "Creator"
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...

More importantly to your point, the government is not the creator or purveyor of said rights. These rights are--by the Declaration of Independence--natural, birth rights of each human being, acknowledged and protected by the government, and are neither conferred by or rescinded by the government.

In practice, we can point to the many restrictions and infringements on various rights. This does not alter the explicit nature of these rights, or their foundation as the reference for all subsequent law.

You don't need God on your shoulder to defend or define your rights. But it is useful to remember when speaking (and adjudicating) that these rights are the sun in this system, with the law rotating around them, and not the reverse.

People generally spotlight arms when it comes to the Second Amendment, and speak in defense of guns. Personally, I think it's a losing strategy, because you always want to play for a bigger stake than that of the opponent, or you simply suffer a losing defense with the verbiage of those trying to take rights away.

It could be said that the Second Amendment is literally the declared value of your life. Acknowledged by the government, yet owned by you. That's a hell of a lot bigger, and more relatable to all, than guns.
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Old 08-20-2019, 1:03 PM
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The state has an almost unlimited battery of legislators and lawyers and money and popular support from the electorate on gun control. We fight with what we've got, namely financial support for larger organizations than ourselves and the courts to do the best we can. Their tactic of passing all they can and dealing with the stays or Constitutional issues individually later (sometimes way later) is the rock of Sisyphus for us. We are a nation of man's laws until we aren't. We are blessed with natural laws as well, that each individual must assign a value and commitment to. Somewhere between the two lies the answer, but respectfully "this is all our fault" is not it.
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Old 08-20-2019, 1:10 PM
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well I guess you can say I have been educated today.

Although it has been quite a few years, I have read the bill of rights, declaration of independence, constitution and many other founding papers. I have even been to D.C. to see them in person. I know and remember that we are endowed by our creator the rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness but I never pushed those god given rights down to the 2A. To me, the 2A was founder given and yes absolutely they saw it as a fundamental right and I agree with that.

Ok, anyway, I didn't mean to derail the original topic...sorry.
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Old 08-20-2019, 2:01 PM
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That's all well and good but we are a nation of laws which must be defended or shot down in court . It would be nice but we can't call the invisible man ( GOD ) to the stand so throwing out God as why we get to bare arms doesn't help .
Not wishing to pick a fight here but it appears that the line is still being muddied between natural rights and legal rights.

If one wishes to merely accept that there are natural rights without discussion of where they come from or how they were historically framed, that's fine. However, the issue for all of us is that they are neither given by the governmental nor should they be appropriated by the government such that they may be controlled or regulated outside of the individual.

As quoted in one of the natural rights links above:

While the rights listed in the Declaration of Independence—life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness—were inalienable, the Founders understood that individuals are often stopped from exercising them. Indeed, this was the very purpose of the Declaration of Independence: to explain that King George III’s violations of the colonists’ inalienable rights justified the American Revolution. The Founders knew full well that while we are born with rights, we need some protection in order to have the freedom to exercise those rights.This principle helps explain the difference between “natural rights” and “legal rights.” While natural rights are innately part of being human, and exist prior to any culture or society, legal rights are those that are acknowledged and protected by a given government.So, in the Founders’ understanding, natural rights would include the right to life itself, the right to think for oneself, the right to self-defense, and the right to keep what one has worked honestly for, among others.Legal rights would include the right to vote, the specific methods by which fair trials are conducted, and copyrights and patents–all of which might be defined and protected in different ways in different countries or states, based on their particular customs and beliefs.


The Founders also recognized, from reading history as well as from their own experience, that governments are often the greatest enemy of individual rights. At the same time they knew that without a government to restrain them, people tend to form gangs or rely on their families and tribes to protect them. These groups war against one another, and make the exercise of individual rights just as unlikely as under a tyrannical king. Of course, representative governments—although most likely to protect individual rights—could also be the means through which the rights of individuals are trampled. In the 1830s, Alexis de Tocqueville helped to popularize the term “tyranny of the majority,” but John Adams had helped introduce it in 1788. It could not have been lost on the Founders when they asserted that the British intended to enslave them, that their own laws enslaved hundreds of thousands of African Americans. The way to secure inalienable rights, the Founders believed, was to consent to giving up a small amount of our freedom so that government has the authority and finances to protect our rights.


The issue that we are dealing with today is the change in direction wherein the government goes from its position of existing through the small endowment or relinquishment of our freedom to the co-opted position wherein the government seeks to be in charge of all rights - both natural and legal - and dole them out as it sees fit.

So we do not have to call upon "the invisible man (God)" but we do need to get our system of government and laws to recognize their rightful place.

Put a lot less eloquently is the phrase that came into our lexicon in the last four years - "drain the swamp." It similarly speaks of removing the heavy co-opting hand of government from the every day freedoms of the common citizen.
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Old 08-20-2019, 2:33 PM
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I think everyone is beginning to see the monster in the room of freedom. once government has perceived control of those rights no matter where they came from government will not give up that control voluntarily. It will use the courts and the legislature to make it's position seemingly legitimate and the people will have to suffer under it. The first requirement to turn a democracy into a dictatorship is to squash all opposition including disarming the public. Wouldn't it be ironic that the public might have to depend on the very criminal gangs we seek to eliminate for weapons in the future if this becomes an armed conflict. Of course the big questions mark is where will the national military end up. Fighting for the people or the government? The liberals seek to form a dictatorship under their value system disowning everyone else. this will not be a battle fought in the courts or the legislatures because the liberals will not allow it. I pray to God i am wrong but time will tell. And remember the first amendment is here because the second amendment still stands battered and torn but the battle flag for it still flies

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Old 08-20-2019, 2:34 PM
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Ok, anyway, I didn't mean to derail the original topic...sorry.
The original topic was, itself, a derail... so I think you're good.
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Old 08-20-2019, 4:40 PM
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I think everyone is beginning to see the monster in the room of freedom. once government has perceived control of those rights no matter where they came from government will not give up that control voluntarily. It will use the courts and the legislature to make it's position seemingly legitimate and the people will have to suffer under it. The first requirement to turn a democracy into a dictatorship is to squash all opposition including disarming the public. Wouldn't it be ironic that the public might have to depend on the very criminal gangs we seek to eliminate for weapons in the future if this becomes an armed conflict. Of course the big questions mark is where will the national military end up. Fighting for the people or the government? The liberals seek to form a dictatorship under their value system disowning everyone else. this will not be a battle fought in the courts or the legislatures because the liberals will not allow it. I pray to God i am wrong but time will tell. And remember the first amendment is here because the second amendment still stands battered and torn but the battle flag for it still flies

There are actually no rights with a democracy! Democracy is just another word for oligarchy where the ruling elite owns the the levers of government and a sycophant media.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/d...ed-for-dummies

"There’s a reason why the American founders created a republic, and not a democracy. Republics are the best form of government for protecting the individual from the tyranny of the majority. And there most certainly is a tyranny of the majority that always manifests in democratic style systems.

Here’s how it works: in democratic or republican systems, there is a kind of majority rule. In democracies, the 51% rules over the 49% and has total control. The 51% can do whatever it wants, because in democracies there are not structures in place to protect individual rights.

If 51% vote to steal your bike, you are without a bike. If 51% vote to kill you, you are out of a life. It does not matter if it is right or not, what the majority says is what happens..."

In republican governments, the polity is governed by a written constitution that safeguards certain rights against tyrannical majorities. There are separations of power, courts, and layers of government to ensure that knee-jerk reactions do not become law.

This is the fundamental difference between a republic and a democracy: a republic protects you from arbitrary power, a democracy is nothing but arbitrary power.


- story continues below
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Old 08-20-2019, 5:38 PM
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Yes, I want and would welcome an Armed take over of the California Government. I am just looking for somebody a lot smarter than me who could organize and put this into action...I am ready I just need to be led. Enough is Enough.
You may not realize it, but not only does California's DOJ monitor posts here, but you can add federal law enforcement too.

You might want to fasten your seatbelt and get ready for an E-ticket ride.
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Old 08-20-2019, 6:48 PM
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What's new!
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:05 PM
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There are actually no rights with a democracy! Democracy is just another word for oligarchy where the ruling elite owns the the levers of government and a sycophant media.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/d...ed-for-dummies

"There’s a reason why the American founders created a republic, and not a democracy. Republics are the best form of government for protecting the individual from the tyranny of the majority. And there most certainly is a tyranny of the majority that always manifests in democratic style systems.

Here’s how it works: in democratic or republican systems, there is a kind of majority rule. In democracies, the 51% rules over the 49% and has total control. The 51% can do whatever it wants, because in democracies there are not structures in place to protect individual rights.

If 51% vote to steal your bike, you are without a bike. If 51% vote to kill you, you are out of a life. It does not matter if it is right or not, what the majority says is what happens..."

In republican governments, the polity is governed by a written constitution that safeguards certain rights against tyrannical majorities. There are separations of power, courts, and layers of government to ensure that knee-jerk reactions do not become law.

This is the fundamental difference between a republic and a democracy: a republic protects you from arbitrary power, a democracy is nothing but arbitrary power.


- story continues below
so...you...want...a...dictatorship...?

whether or not we operate in the fashion of a democratic government, does not mean we are going to "kill somebody because 51% of people" believe we should do so. it's because he or she (or shim, or an individual that identifies as an attack helicopter) has chosen to commit a crime worthy of such a punishment.

what are you on about, bruv? you stuck in musket days my dude?
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:40 PM
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I think it is important that as long as we remember the first amendment and the right to say what we believe so long as we do not preach sedition at the moment. And know where that fine line exists. surfcity is just expressing an opinion and not advocating anything. If it happens he is not going to be crying about it is all he said. Why don't we wind it down a little and defend each other rights. the same goes for ja308 even if I do not agree with him on most days and he loves to go after me. Part of having free speech.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:03 PM
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I think it is important that as long as we remember the first amendment and the right to say what we believe so long as we do not preach sedition at the moment. And know where that fine line exists. surfcity is just expressing an opinion and not advocating anything. If it happens he is not going to be crying about it is all he said. Why don't we wind it down a little and defend each other rights. the same goes for ja308 even if I do not agree with him on most days and he loves to go after me. Part of having free speech.
well Sir I didn't intend to attack or go after you. I only wanted to clarify the type of government we are supposed to have. Namely a republic and when you think about it, you see how one does not have a revolution to establish a democracy.

One has a democracy to establish a revolution, which is why the democrat party believes once its gets voted into office, it acts like it has legal right to do whatever it wants regardless of a constitution or any other law.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:11 PM
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i got your point and I am used to talking democracy in the common street talk sense even if I might be wrong. we are representative not direct and we have not had a republic in a long time in my personal opinion. but it does not matter that much as long as we both agree something smells "fishy" or worse. We may end up on the opposite ends of the same word more than once but as long as we are communicating something is working.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:44 PM
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i got your point and I am used to talking democracy in the common street talk sense even if I might be wrong. we are representative not direct and we have not had a republic in a long time in my personal opinion. but it does not matter that much as long as we both agree something smells "fishy" or worse. We may end up on the opposite ends of the same word more than once but as long as we are communicating something is working.
Your opinion of not being a republic is quite correct. It was egghead Wilson who started 1st using the term "make the world safe for democracy".

I think we can agree the revolution has already happened and maybe if enough of us get together we can through education and voting restore the republic where rights are guaranteed and the rule of law is adhered to.

As you have noticed President Trump is taking lots of heat from the 5th column who wants to rule in a democracy. He is the biggest threat they have faced since at least McKinley!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEEL57AcZs
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Old 08-21-2019, 9:06 AM
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What are people actually doing?
I'm just getting around to rolling in to work and grabbing something to eat.
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Old 08-21-2019, 4:13 PM
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And you wrote all of this instead of doing what?
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Old 08-21-2019, 6:35 PM
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And when the majority hit 75% and your republic votes itself out of existence you have true democracy (aka mob rule) then hold onto your socks.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:22 AM
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This fight was lost in 1934.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:19 PM
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An armed rebellion. I remember reading about a group of people at Charleston Harbor who thought that would be very do-able on April 12, 1861 when they pulled the first lanyard at about 04:30 a.m. And they weren't even drunk. Well, most of 'em weren't.
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Old 08-22-2019, 1:07 PM
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the bad part about an armed rebellion is that it turns friend against friend and brother against brother if we are talking a serious fight over beliefs. we saw that in 1861 didn't we? conservatives are usually willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs but liberals put someone else's lives on the line to push their beliefs.
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Old 08-23-2019, 8:07 AM
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the bad part about an armed rebellion is that it turns friend against friend and brother against brother if we are talking a serious fight over beliefs. we saw that in 1861 didn't we? conservatives are usually willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs but liberals put someone else's lives on the line to push their beliefs.
Lots of democrats in gov't will be the ones promoting violence in order to secure promotions and have a relevancy. NEVER fall for a violent solution, because there is not one.
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Old 08-23-2019, 9:36 AM
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IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
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