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  #121  
Old 08-26-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Get rid of the off topic section. I am going to be first to admit, I go there to troll it for a reaction more than anything, as does most everyone else there.

People post crap like this...."The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements"

Seriously, if I were looking to see what the gun community is all about, and went to the off topic section, I would not come back. The discussions there devolve quickly into "people like you amuse me", "your a Libtard because....", and the classy "shut your cock washer". There are wonderful topics like "I gave a homeless person a nickel and they were ungrateful", followed by 20 reasons why we need to put them in concentration camps. Let us not forget the endless procession of cop bashing threads, global warming threads, abortion threads, etc. No one is going to change anyone else's mind on those subjects, so what is the point of having a mud slinging ring to constantly highlight peoples ugly(sometimes very ugly) sides....

Just my opinion, yours may vary.
There is a lot said in OT that I don't agree w/or appreciate. That said, the OT Lounge is the most viewed/active portion of CG. You'd like it to be censored and/or gone, because it's racist and not Liberal or PC, and they say things like "cockwasher" and "Libtard", and you'd like to control the speech here.
Yeah, my opinion differs. Why don't you cite specific examples of racism or unsafe/unacceptable language when they occur, and on the posts they occur on. Call it out. Help the Mods enact a working editorial policy. Or do you prefer censorship and the elimination of the OT forum?
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  #122  
Old 08-26-2019, 4:48 PM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes and No. Modify the path. .

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

loosen it up a little. We can’t have hurt feelings so much here. If we Americans had The same hurt feelings decades ago, we would’ve lost world war 2.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No. But again we need to loosen up a little bit and let strong civil discourse opinions be spoken to our enemy, which is people against the Second Amendment, or ANY part of the constitution for that matter. After all, this is still a pro second amendment gun forum. The framing fathers believed in our rights, sealed them into history on paper, fought and then died for those rights for future generations to come. We can do the same in this forum through tactful words, explanations, and opinions but we do need to be a little tougher all around. We need more thick skinned people to voice and defend their pro-2A opinions. We need to honor what our forefathers created and then fought for.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

Yes, loosen up some. No name calling, but also don’t ban someone that labels an anti gunner soy-boy for who he/she really is.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

Heck no! I think the thin skinned people need to go elsewhere.

Personally, I like to use the great Constitutionalist Mark Levin as an example of how we communicate with our anti-constitutional enemies out there. The left slams us, so we should “Trump” up the responses just a tad, but more like Mark Levin does on his radio show. That is with tact, no outward name calling with foul language, nor racism.

...you asked, just my opinion.
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  #123  
Old 08-27-2019, 9:33 AM
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I'm in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" group.
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  #124  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:34 PM
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Definitely fire up the engines for political involvement! You are right that few of the many get involved (example would be 10 people at CRPA meetings and 3 at an OCGO meeting I went to). Together, we could be formidable. Along with that, regarding voting (and perhaps you already do this): JUDGES. Some of this war can and will be won or lost via judges (think Peruta, etc.). People don't know which judges to vote for, which are 2A-friendly. Calguns can help with that, with the ultimate goal of creating an easy-to-share list. Just a few thoughts from a Calguns new member.
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  #125  
Old 08-27-2019, 5:46 PM
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Thanks for being thoughtful about these questions, Kestryll. I've been a member of Calguns for over 15 years, since before the "big crash" of 2005, since before Off-List-Lowers were invented by CG members, since before a lot of the changes in discourse and tone on these forums, and the time on CG has benefited me greatly. I'm quite grateful for the knowledge I've learned here, and Calguns is seen as a resource and authority on many gun-related topics.

Earlier this year, I moved out of San Francisco to Texas. I lived in SF for over 20 years, but I'd had it with the results of consistent and increasingly powerful leftist political control of the city, and then the state. I got tired of waking up, walking out my front door and stepping over human feces, drug needles, and dodging homeless tents on my block.

After moving out of CA and back to America, I was heartened to learn that there really is hope and the 2nd Amendment is actually respected in other places. To me, that still leaves hope for CA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
This is a tricky one.. I don't think it's realistic to expect advocacy for gun rights in most of the CA government unless a wealthy donor comes along, or a grassroots group organizes.


Quote:
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
I believe that all who are genuinely interested in the safe use of guns and their promotion should be welcomed.

Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
I don't view Calguns as a political organization, and besides, it would be useless to refocus towards a single political party until there is a functioning Republican party rebuilt in California.

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No, I like the neutral and principled discussion on Calguns.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
I'd say that's forum-dependent. I don't have a problem with restricting anti-2A arguments to relevant forum(s).

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No, my attention span for Calguns would be significantly diminished in such an environment.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
That's up to you, but I'd say that if 2A organizing goes away from Calguns, you may find Californians losing rights faster, and unable to have a social community regarding gun rights in the future. The forum could eventually be labeled a terror sympathizer forum by the leftist thought police.

Quote:
We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.
I'd say there's significant cachet around the Calguns name, and using it to organize for 2A rights wouldn't be a bad idea, if you feel you can get the support and momentum from members that will make positive change. I wouldn't underestimate the loyalty and devotion of Calguns members, and that's a force that could be harnessed for good.
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  #126  
Old 08-27-2019, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?
I think the evidence shows we've lost the political / legislative stage in California, but still have a chance at the SCOTUS level. Perhaps a bit more emphasis could be placed on legal cases that impact the Second Amendment

Regarding vulgarity, it's not necessarily a win to gather a handful of potty-mouths who just dropped by on their way to somewhere else and lose a busload of adults.

Last edited by Fedora; 08-27-2019 at 6:14 PM..
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  #127  
Old 08-28-2019, 7:16 AM
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Any change should be additive.

Iím not a ďgunnie.Ē I was given a pistol as a present during my Marine Corps days and frankly guns were uninteresting to me-6 expert awards later.

Then came a significant other with a stalker problem who was afraid of guns, and was denied them by law where she lived. She started the activism, not me.

Since then, I attended events even alongside you, Mr. Kes, tried to help in the OC sheriff election, went to numerous city council events, on and on and on. We became involved with some business here, at times pro bono, all with the intent of moving the community forward.

I would have never participated in 3gun if it werenít for Calguns. (ďaim your azz off, Glb!Ē- you know who you are)

Iíd have never had long and late chats with ATF and seen some of their kooky dishonesty first hand with former Marine Colleagues in dealing with a vendor prior to a raid, played CNC games with hundreds here before the shutdowns of parties or seen their consequence first hand.

Iíd probably have never become involved with LE were it not for things that happened at Calguns.

The site shouldnít markedly change, and like all forums, it brings in people, good or bad. Sometimes there is a locker room atmosphere and...so what? Moderation and terms address most of the healthy discourse.

What is lacking, if anything. Is LEVERAGE. How do you more frequently mobilize people into action? What should that action be and where is it best directed?

I have seen the ungodly politics of the NRA and CRPA first hand. Paul and Gene were really not the best faces of our voice many times over, launching headlong into crusades that didnít always pan out.

We need events and visibility. I have stood next to Gavin more than once (and I still itch), and frankly, heís a force to be reckoned with. We need more people to help counter the insane dialogue that he spews, along with participation and visibility - not with people wearing camo pants and tactical stupidity as was the case In Many open carry events, but fun, thoughtful and inclusive events.

Bring a newbie to the range, bring a newbie to a potluck - small steps into bigger ones.

Many times we were infiltrated by those who would wish to do us legislative harm. Thatís a problem but it is what it is, and the collective group may have an answer.

Again, changes should be additive...


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  #128  
Old 08-28-2019, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
I'm in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" group.


Yeah but the forum has been kapoots over the past several years. The handgun and rifle forum used to be pages long with new posts daily. Now a days you canít get activity with out bumping your own thread.

Itís definitely NOT what it used to be.

I donít have answers, but I know that this discussion needs to take place.

Iíve run forums before in the past, and if thereís one thing i learned is you canít please everyone.

From an admin perspective i would look at the least active topics (or topics where there have been no posts in over 1 year and simply archive them (hide from view). They are just dead weight at this point.

Focus on the topics with the most activity (perhaps minus the classifieds) and then rethink what direction CalGuns is headed.

You want more exposure, letís be real.... tap into the social media aspect more. Insta, FB, Twitter. People just donít do websites like they used to. They want quick, consumable information and then they move on. Thatís just how it is these days. Forums are good still, but youíll definitely have to parse down some of the topics IMO, and focus or highlight the ones that keep driving traffic and activity to the site.


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  #129  
Old 08-28-2019, 7:59 AM
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Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
Yeah but the forum has been kapoots over the past several years. The handgun and rifle forum used to be pages long with new posts daily. Now a days you canít get activity with out bumping your own thread.

Itís definitely NOT what it used to be.

I donít have answers, but I know that this discussion needs to take place.

Iíve run forums before in the past, and if thereís one thing i learned is you canít please everyone.

From an admin perspective i would look at the least active topics (or topics where there have been no posts in over 1 year and simply archive them (hide from view). They are just dead weight at this point.

Focus on the topics with the most activity (perhaps minus the classifieds) and then rethink what direction CalGuns is headed.

You want more exposure, letís be real.... tap into the social media aspect more. Insta, FB, Twitter. People just donít do websites like they used to. They want quick, consumable information and then they move on. Thatís just how it is these days. Forums are good still, but youíll definitely have to parse down some of the topics IMO, and focus or highlight the ones that keep driving traffic and activity to the site.


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With respect to how things are in Calguns, qualitatively--I've only been a member for the past few years. Maybe my expectations are low, but I've been happy.
I'm a relative newbie, but have been active and learning, and sharing as I can. The information, experience, and shared opinions on how to deal with the 2A life in California, have been nothing short of life-changing for me and my family. I consider having firearms a right to protect me and my family. 3-4 years ago, I believed it was a privilege in our PRK, simply because I was ignorant.

Topics-wise, the breadth and depth of topics on Calguns is ridiculously helpful for almost all aspects of firearms and 2A: legal discussions, training, hunting, licensing, politics, classifieds--and all the many sub-topics.

With respect to Twitter, FB, IG, and what have you for social media: I'm not so sure I would agree that we need to get more outreach via social media. Maybe it just needs to be better thought out and well-planned. And thought out again.
Twitter, IG, FB, and all the other social media platforms--they are a double-edged sword, cuts both ways and badly. Things that get spoken of by anyone, getting re-posted via twitter/fb are taken out of context, and the results can be pretty bad. You can't edit/delete a tweet fast enough before some webcrawler somewhere stashes it into some crazy archive for easy replay.

True, the same can be said of our website as it is archived publicly, but it takes a little extra effort and maybe some know-how. Maybe this old school website is showing its age. That could be part of its charm, but also could be a good barrier of entry.

If we went full FB, Twitter or whatnot, I would guess there may be more people interested. But we could/would also lose some folks.
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  #130  
Old 08-28-2019, 9:46 AM
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I think 2A Rights in CA is a lost cause. There are just not enough support from voters in your neighborhoods.

This site fights hard and seems to slow the momentum.

I sold and left several years ago. I couldn't be happier and still get back to visit and go to car shows.

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  #131  
Old 08-28-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt 1911 View Post
I think 2A Rights in CA is a lost cause. There are just not enough support from voters in your neighborhoods.

This site fights hard and seems to slow the momentum.

I sold and left several years ago. I couldn't be happier and still get back to visit and go to car shows.
Great. Thanks for sharing.

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So where do we California gun owners go from here? Forward. Never quit. Never surrender. We have not yet begun to fight. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/johnpauljones.htm
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  #132  
Old 08-28-2019, 11:30 AM
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  #133  
Old 08-28-2019, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.
The big problem with Calguns is not Calguns itself, but the location.

I joined over 10 years ago and the environment, community, and CA society in general have all changed drastically since then. When I first joined, off list lowers was a real CA firearms movement. Most handguns available to the U.S. were still legal to buy in CA. Gun ranges were still open. We had the wind on our sails. Politically, the last 10 years in CA has been a greased, downhill slide of epic proportions, leading to huge changes in gun laws, frankly taking the joy out of being a CA gunowner (yes, it used to be fun). You run a site with a membership that most people in CA would hate to associate with if they caught a glimpse of your closets and safes.

The challenge of "rolling with the punches" has become almost unsurmountable, so many entities are trying break down your door. In this environment, I can see the task of trying to run a gun forum extremely difficult. It's almost a useless exercise to discuss the latest handguns, rifles, etc when it is illegal for Joe Six Pack to purchase in CA. It is no surprise that much of the action at CG is in the OT section. Which has also changed a lot in the last 10 years.

Straightening up OT would be a tweek. I have no problem with the occasional f-bombs in posts or some adult content. But IMO, some of the gratuitous stuff in objectifying women in very crude fashion is worse than posting a f*** in a thread. As far as politics, you would have to be incredibly naive to not realize that the 2A is at the forefront of our political divide, with control embraced by one single party as part of their national platform. A Democrat gun owner in this forum should realize that the vast majority of active members are conservative, and realize that yes, they themselves do vote for politicians that do the firearms community great harm. Thus the difficulty in many to embrace the left and guns.

I echo others in that CG overall is fine as it is, but realize that everything else is not fine. Rolling with the punches is a whole new ballgame now.
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  #134  
Old 08-28-2019, 1:33 PM
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Waxing philosophical for a moment but when have attempts to conform to-- or chase after a larger base ever worked out well for anyone already starting at a conservative worldview? I've seen that rabbit hole gone down in churches, education, the workplace, and many other organizations. I have always believed that you can never please everyone, so why even try to.

I really can't say what Kes ought to do or not do here at Calguns. He is the guy at the top who has to make all of the important decisions around here. Should Calguns try to be a "bigger tent" and try to appeal to more people, or should it be a "smaller tent" but more focused and with tighter declared goals? I don't know the answer to that other than the tent needs to always say, "the 2nd Amendment lives here!" What goes on in the center ring, or any of the side shows.... well, the boss decides on that. I'm just glad to be in the tent even if I'm just one of guys popping out of the clown car... I still feel kinship with all the ones up on the tight rope doing the really difficult tasks.

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  #135  
Old 08-28-2019, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post


There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?
NO. Absolutely DO NOT GIVE UP. I suggest opening a forum, maybe call it "What you did for the 2A today". Get people thinking and acting on a daily basis about or 2A rights and how we can defend them.

Quote:
I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.
Absolutely agreed. I do wonder, though, how many of us as gunowners feel intimidated or vulnerable to retribution by gun control fanatics in positions of authority and power. It doesn't take much more than an accusation of something/anything that could put any of us on the "prohibited persons" list

Quote:
I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process.
Absolutely agreed. CRPA and NRA are out there everyday taking ACTION in the legal system to preserve every American's 2A right. Every gunowner should support and promote both these organizations.






Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
We should place principles above personalities and support those principles over any particular political party.

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
NO. In many ways we are/should be examples of civil, if not polite behavior and yes, morals.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
Absolutely not. We should be prepared to defend all our Constitutional rights, including the 2A in and intelligent and civil manner.

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No, the existing rules and practices are just about right IMO.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
ABSOLUTELY NOT. We are in a fight for our basic, inherent human rights as codified and guaranteed the the Constitution especially the BOR. It's our responsibility and stewardship as Americans. Too many before us have fought and many many died to hold on the the liberties and freedoms we enjoy today.
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  #136  
Old 08-28-2019, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Great. Thanks for sharing.

So where do we California gun owners go from here? Forward. Never quit. Never surrender. We have not yet begun to fight. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/johnpauljones.htm
I am just being realistic. You need to go to Plan B.

You should fight for what you own. The State of CA will not let up for taking away your Right to buy a gun. It's difficult to take away your gun. They will do it next if you let them. Do you think this is not their next goal?
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Old 08-28-2019, 5:17 PM
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Okay. Plan B is keep fighting and change the status quo.
I really respect your optimistic opinion.

I attend the Monterrey Historics every year. I like the weather and 25% of the people.

Gavin C. Newsom is not a friend of mine.

I think current property values will decrease going forward. No one with a small $150K/year income will ever survive.

The middle class will be succeed to the welfare class. It's a lot more fun to visit here than live here. Newsom wants your gun and your taxes. You can't change it.
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  #138  
Old 08-29-2019, 9:54 AM
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I attend the Monterrey Historics every year. I like the weather and 25% of the people.
Well you just moved up my list of people I like I have NOT missed a historic since 1974 the first year of the races...gone down the tubes badly last few years and really bad this year, talking with my wife who only missed the first year and been with me all the others about not going anymore.

And to keep the topic on subject, what we need to do is not be afraid of letting people know we own guns. Too many gun owners cower in fear when the gun subject comes up in a conversation and never admit they own one.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:16 AM
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And to keep the topic on subject, what we need to do is not be afraid of letting people know we own guns. Too many gun owners cower in fear when the gun subject comes up in a conversation and never admit they own one.
I absolutely agree. This is the only way we will ever make guns and responsible gun ownership "normal" again in this state. Just look at what the LGBT community has been able to accomplish for themselves by coming out of the closet.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:50 AM
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I absolutely agree. This is the only way we will ever make guns and responsible gun ownership "normal" again in this state. Just look at what the LGBT community has been able to accomplish for themselves by coming out of the closet.
This is not even like comparing apples to oranges, more like apples to Volkswagens.

Bob Creamer, a DNC consultant and a leftist Mr. Fixit guy since the 70s, came up with a strategy years ago for the Democrat Party; to move the goalpost of what is considered "moderate" in the party, to the left, increasing that move to the left as much as possible as time marches on. Thus why the Dems heavily pushed LGBT stuff in recent years, even though they only represent 3-4% of the U.S. population, a tiny demographic. By having TV, Hollywood, and media "normalize" gay culture, saturating every thing from TV commercials to schools, on the surface, it appears to be part of the mainstream. This wasn't a strategy the LGBT community came up with on their own, it was a strategy by a political party. Creamer has been a guest at Obama's Oval Office dozens of times, and sat next to Valarie Jarrett in his last goodbye to WH staff.

To "normalize" guns in CA is not going to happen, sorry to say. Unless the Democrats and the media helps out. And that won't happen. Most likely, CA needs to get the 9th Circuit at least towards the middle, elect national politicians that will help in court appointments on a federal level. I see the courts as the best fight against those taking away gun rights.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:00 PM
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To "normalize" guns in CA is not going to happen, sorry to say. Unless the Democrats and the media helps out. And that won't happen. Most likely, CA needs to get the 9th Circuit at least towards the middle, elect national politicians that will help in court appointments on a federal level. I see the courts as the best fight against those taking away gun rights.
Not with an attitude like that anyway. Gun owners who hide in the closet let Hollywood and the media control the narrative. Many voters are happy to vote for gun control because they don't think they even know any gun owners. They think all gun owners are psychos or criminals. It's up to gun owners to show them that they've been lied to. Gun owners need to model responsible gun ownership so the uninformed non-gun owners think of US next time the gun grabbers propose banning guns after a psycho or criminal uses one and the media covers it.

And just out of curiosity, why are so many people who gave up and ran away to other states so quick to lob their defeatist attitudes back at those of us who continue the fight that they were unwilling to wage here in California? This is still a California-based gun forum . . . isn't it?
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:18 PM
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I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
So I'll tell you as an out-of-stater but a person who really believes in gun rights in California, I am a huge Pro Idaho guy. That said, I still donate to california-based forums, gun programs, education and father random things here and

I would love to be a part of something on Calguns even if I just donated financially and I like the concept of being a voter almost if things were sort it out and somehow could be used as a spear head into litigations or more. I wish Calguns had a fund that I could pour money into if I have extra and be a voting member if you donate to the cause. I don't know what that looks like I'm just throwing some ideas out there so don't take my word is anything but some Jose Schmo in Idaho but I'm with you in spirit and heart.

I've been asked over and over again by people on this for my I still hang out here and why I like it, and it's because I have met a ton of people a small number of whom I have feedback from for sales, trades, and more. I would love to be a part of something bigger I just don't know how to do that without some guided Direction.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:19 PM
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and my apologies on any weird spelling or grammar errors, I'm talking into a phone and the damn thing auto corrects me all the time.
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Old 08-29-2019, 1:03 PM
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And just out of curiosity, why are so many people who gave up and ran away to other states so quick to lob their defeatist attitudes back at those of us who continue the fight that they were unwilling to wage here in California? This is still a California-based gun forum . . . isn't it?
Ban me already.

Just your naive little story about comparing LGBT issues to guns issues is really rich. You have no idea what you're posting in regards to this.
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Old 08-29-2019, 2:14 PM
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The political climate when we moved to the mobile home park we reside in, it was almost entirely Conservative/Republican 55 plus folks. The majority were retired business owners. (212 homes)

Then there was no problem "talking shop" about firearms and never wanting to have a range partner.

Twenty years later, I'd be asking to be evicted or worse for doing that. The influx of different ethnicities has changed dramatically which alters the areas general culture. Add to that a general shift to the left from a "new breed" of 55 plus folks; many of which are single elderly women.

I certainly do not advertise when I go to the range. The culture has changed as has the political atmosphere that it would not be a wise thing to do.

Some things are better left to ones self.

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Kyle
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Old 08-29-2019, 2:29 PM
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I certainly do not advertise when I go to the range. The culture has changed as has the political atmosphere that it would not be a wise thing to do.

Some things are better left to ones self.
But that is EXACTLY why we are losing, because you are keeping it to yourself that you own guns. They don't know you own them, so they think it won't affect you if guns are taken away.

I have been taken to task at work because I wore my NRA jacket that I got as a gift when I upped to Patron, several people at work could not believe I was a gun owning NRA member, other people that also own guns knew I was but they keep quiet and as a result, I am the only gun owner in our group 28 people...well there are 5 others but no one knows that but me. To use "Mayor's" language earlier about being "out", I won't "out" them.

Yeah, I also have a NRA sticker on my truck and I work on enemy territory, a CA. University and still wear my NRA jacket.
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Old 08-29-2019, 3:03 PM
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But that is EXACTLY why we are losing, because you are keeping it to yourself that you own guns. They don't know you own them, so they think it won't affect you if guns are taken away.

I have been taken to task at work because I wore my NRA jacket that I got as a gift when I upped to Patron, several people at work could not believe I was a gun owning NRA member, other people that also own guns knew I was but they keep quiet and as a result, I am the only gun owner in our group 28 people...well there are 5 others but no one knows that but me. To use "Mayor's" language earlier about being "out", I won't "out" them.

Yeah, I also have a NRA sticker on my truck and I work on enemy territory, a CA. University and still wear my NRA jacket.
Sir, I've been fighting this fight since the middle 80's. I also know the area and the mood of the residents. At 78, I'm not about to get evicted, or worse to advertise something that obviously is not necessary. Antagonizing your neighbors does not change beliefs.

As I stated not all areas are the same. I know better than to cr-ap where I eat.

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Kyle

ETA: Apologies for straying off topic.
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Old 08-29-2019, 3:19 PM
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Alright, since you asked, I'll stick my neck out this ONCE, then leave it be. I'm only saying this because I've felt this way for years, and again, you asked! Probably entirely too wordy for my own good, but here goes:

I have left California as of 2-1/2 years ago, with all that that entails, including watching the California lunacy spread like the disease it is. Blah, blah, blah - which has little to do with the questions asked.

HOWEVER, I feel that this is going to generate some eye rolls, and that's part of the problem AS I SEE IT.

When I *was* a California resident, I thought "Cal Guns" was divisive, contentious, non-inclusive, and completely ineffectual. You need to have EVERY SINGLE CALIFORNIA GUN OWNING RESIDENT ON YOUR SIDE. This forum is full of right wing rhetoric, which is, to me and many others, JUST AS BAD AS THE LEFT. The ONLY thing the GOP has going for it is that it isn't the Democrats. Both of the major parties are parties of slavery, they both want to control the populace and suppress those they don't like. The only difference is the what and the who of it.

Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.

Now if this is "mocking" something or someone, well one last time, you asked. I have spoken, and will speak no more.

I see where you are going and I kinda agree. Personally I am born and raised from another state and would love to leave CA one day, but before I go, I want to fight as hard as I can to keep my rights here. I am Christian. Raised Democratic, but more and more conservative by the day... I do not trust any politician from either side and believe the parties should be broken up. Finally I am a Black American.

Inclusion is the BIGGIST issue with the gun owning community. There are more gun owners than those of use who represent it. To me, fighting for the Second Amendment is not just about keeping our guns, but about destroying our rights, the very fabric of being a free American. Many people of all walks of life have guns but to not get together because we are too busy fighting over all the other things that a physically different and in turn lose everything. Our voice would be stronger if we were just all fighting to keep our rights. No matter what color, religion, or political affiliation, if we lose this right to bear arms we can lose everything.

The gun owning community is too often seen as extreme, crazy, white, irrational, trigger happy, etc. You can replace the color and it will sound like any group. I have family and friends who dislike my political views at times, but then they understand after discussion back and forth. I love talking and I listen to all sides as well. People are scare of guns, but we are afraid of not having them.

With inclusion, we can all be fighting together rather than apart. I have seen it time and time again, people are afraid of guns or even anti guns have fun with guns when you train them how to use it. They understand that if they 2A can be changed, what else can be changed? We need to keep our movement to just gun and 2A and leave the other stuff as agree to disagree. Trump or Obama does not matter at all to me. I cannot stand Newsom, lol. The real enemy is the new lib/progressive movement and we have got to band together to fight for our rights.
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Old 08-29-2019, 3:32 PM
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More people own guns that do not look the part. We all need to be speaking about that. The majority of US ARE LEGAL and do our very best to STAY LEGAL. Many of us own for sport, most of us own because it is our right to. Some of us own guns for defense. The police will not always be there.

Government cannot speak for the people. They live different lives. We pay for their around the clock protection, their gas, their car, they have their own DMV.

The more inclusive we are under 2A/Guns, the more people we have. When we add all of the other differences, we are limited in number and the fight is hard. The enemy is not one another. The issues are the corruption and anti-American politicians who want to strip us and pawn us. I hate to think that when the anti-gun crowd finally sees, it will be too late.
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  #150  
Old 08-30-2019, 11:34 AM
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More people own guns that do not look the part. We all need to be speaking about that. The majority of US ARE LEGAL and do our very best to STAY LEGAL. Many of us own for sport, most of us own because it is our right to. Some of us own guns for defense. The police will not always be there.
Which is why I wear my NRA or MAGA hats all the time. To let people know that we are just regular law abiding, respectful, good citizens and neighbors. The kind most neighbors would want, the kind most employers would be thrilled to have.

I get more thumbs up when I wear my Trump hats than negative comments. In fact the ratio at this point is about 98 to 2 in favor of the positive.
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Old 08-30-2019, 2:30 PM
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I think the best thing Calguns could do is, somehow, become more visible to CA gunowners.
When I was in Ca., there were a core group of volunteers that "worked" the Sacramento area gun shows at the CalGuns exhibit booth. We tried to educate the people attending the shows about the existence of Calguns, a majority of the attendees had never heard of us. I also remember a couple dozen people stopping by and saying "Yeah I'm a forum memebr and I'm so and so", pretty neat to see them post and be able to put a face to the username. It was hard sometimes to fill the time slots and the majority of us "worked" multiple time slots/days.

We also had a few scheduled shoots out at Sac Valley where the attendees could all meet each other. Some of us would wear our CalGuns shirts and could field questions from fellow shooters who were curious about the group.
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Old 08-30-2019, 3:06 PM
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Numbers,

Someone posted some numbers above that there are 21,000 active users. Real active is probably 2,100? I don't know what it is but it made me think.

What if Cal Guns dot Net adopted a Congressional, State Senate and State Assembly candidate every two years. Just 1 each. Three races. It became the sites mission to win those 3 races with money, volunteers and banging social media in favor of the candidates hard. I dare say you could have a primary like contest on the site for all those running to become one of the chosen three - it'd probably recruit more members though I suspect it would come with disdain from those who wouldn't be selected. Hopefully we can win 3 races every year and out gun rights be better for it.
I like this idea. It would bring awareness to candidates that us "out of staters" probably would of never heard of and could help fill his war chest with donations.
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Old 08-30-2019, 3:32 PM
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As far as "Off Topic" goes, it has it's place, especially when "an on going event" takes place on news feeds. i.e., Officer down, local break ins, and just plain ole light hearted humor---Things and stuff if you will.

There are plenty of sub-forums to visit, if "Off Topic" isn't your cup of tea, don't go there. The same applies to the Market Place; if you find an item "over priced" in your view, do what you would in a brick and mortar, give it a pass.

No need to dump the Market Place because something is outlandishly expensive, any more than "Off Topic" should be eliminated.

Nothing's perfect but Calguns is the best thing we have, let's not wreak it trying to improve something that ain't broken.

Respectfully (just an opinion)
Kyle
IMHO, the Off Topic forum is a fantastic news aggregator. If something is happening, Off Topic is my go to forum. The CG membership has such a diverse background that they have different news sources that they monitor, many of which I had never heard of. Also, occasionally the news is happening in their personal AO and are able to provide first hand knowledge before many news sources are even aware or able to get reporters to the area.

If I see something in Off topic that I deem stupid or trollish, I scroll on by. I have to admit though I've typed out a reply to some posts only to hit the delete button as to not feed the trolls. I don't use the Tapatalk function and was not aware that OT showed up in new posts. I thought it was a "hidden" forum.

As far as a reply to the Head Janitors OP, I agree with your sentiments
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Old 08-30-2019, 4:24 PM
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The newer generation of gun owners are completely different in the brain. They're typically the same Kyles, Chads, and idiot kids that we all know and "love" doing stupid things. The only difference is they think guns are cool and want them.

The generation does not understand the foundation or importance of firearms and the RTKBA. Hell, many do not even understand their own constitutional rights. We can try our best to guide them, but we cannot change 18+ years of coddling and being told that their opinions matter despite the sheer stupidity of their words.

Even here, we're divided between the boomers, FUDs, and the folk that want to be tacticool. Many of us have generally stopped posting content or basic participation as a result and simply hit the marketplace now.

I remember when I first signed on, oh what a wealth of information and good people. I wanted to create threads and share my journey into the firearms world. I'm first generation American born from refugee cold war era jungle Asians. I had no one to teach me about this stuff. This forum was my pathway to being 'Murican and in fact, I chose my career path because of this place. After being here and seeing the shift, I now think that everyone is a commie. LOL

IDK, Kes. Just sell the forum to the company that bought ARF.COM. Screw it. Get paid and go retire in a free state. It's not your responsibility to fight for those who don't want to fight. I'm pretty disgusted by CA myself.

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Old 08-30-2019, 4:32 PM
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The newer generation of gun owners are completely different in the brain. They're typically the same Kyles, Chads, and idiot kids that we all know and "love" doing stupid things. The only difference is they think guns are cool and want them.

The generation does not understand the foundation or importance of firearms and the RTKBA. Hell, many do not even understand their own constitutional rights. We can try our best to guide them, but we cannot change 18+ years of coddling and being told that their opinions matter despite the sheer stupidity of their words.

Even here, we're divided between the boomers, FUDs, and the folk that want to be tacticool. Many of us have generally stopped posting content or basic participation as a result and simply hit the marketplace now.

I remember when I first signed on, oh what a wealth of information and good people. I wanted to create threads and share my journey into the firearms world. I'm first generation American born from refugee cold war era jungle Asians. I had no one to teach me about this stuff. This forum was my pathway to being 'Murican and in fact, I chose my career path because of this place. After being here and seeing the shift, I now think that everyone is a commie. LOL

IDK, Kes. Just sell the forum to the company that bought ARF.COM. Screw it. Get paid and go retire in a free state. It's not your responsibility to fight for those who don't want to fight. I'm pretty disgusted by CA myself.
I'm grateful the generations that went before us didn't have that attitude.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:33 PM
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Lock this place down and start charging like Arfcom does. F all politicians, they all want us disarmed and total subjects they can bleed dry. Non of them believe in the 2a or any part of BoR or freedom.

better get woke quick as to what's happening in this country.

God help us all.
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Old 08-31-2019, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post
The newer generation of gun owners are completely different in the brain. They're typically the same Kyles, Chads, and idiot kids that we all know and "love" doing stupid things. The only difference is they think guns are cool and want them.

The generation does not understand the foundation or importance of firearms and the RTKBA. Hell, many do not even understand their own constitutional rights. We can try our best to guide them, but we cannot change 18+ years of coddling and being told that their opinions matter despite the sheer stupidity of their words.

Even here, we're divided between the boomers, FUDs, and the folk that want to be tacticool. Many of us have generally stopped posting content or basic participation as a result and simply hit the marketplace now.

I remember when I first signed on, oh what a wealth of information and good people. I wanted to create threads and share my journey into the firearms world. I'm first generation American born from refugee cold war era jungle Asians. I had no one to teach me about this stuff. This forum was my pathway to being 'Murican and in fact, I chose my career path because of this place. After being here and seeing the shift, I now think that everyone is a commie. LOL

IDK, Kes. Just sell the forum to the company that bought ARF.COM. Screw it. Get paid and go retire in a free state. It's not your responsibility to fight for those who don't want to fight. I'm pretty disgusted by CA myself.
I'm far from being of the new generation of gun owners. I'm even before the "boomers"; silent generation I'm told. I grew up in Texas and there were always arms in the house, unsecured, just like the rest of the neighbors-just a way of life.

(I'm sure you were using names in general and thanks for your service).

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #158  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:07 AM
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Kestryll,

I only have two things to contribute:

1. Whether in the OT forum or elsewhere, in my opinion there is too much crap talking and personal insults thrown around. It can be difficult to have meaningful discussions free of childish drama. I donít know how to clean this up, but I wish there was less of it because I feel like itís scaring normal people away.

2. Community is more than just chatting online. There should be an easy to access section where people can see all of the local events (competitions, classes, meetups). I remember when I tried to post about Rob Pincus doing a class out here in SoCal and was told by the CG marketing person that I need to pay to post this. I was really disappointed. To me this was about getting together with like-minded people (Pincus has a style thatís a bit different than say a James Yeager) and I couldnít even do that using this platform. I would ask you to reconsider this policy for posting classes.
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  #159  
Old 09-01-2019, 6:32 AM
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-hanko -hanko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoXguy View Post
Lock this place down and start charging like Arfcom does. F all politicians, they all want us disarmed and total subjects they can bleed dry. Non of them believe in the 2a or any part of BoR or freedom.

better get woke quick as to what's happening in this country.

God help us all.
I've been with arfcom since it started...I'm not aware of any required "charging", though donations are appreciated, as they are here.
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Old 09-01-2019, 8:17 AM
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Latigo Latigo is offline
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It has taken me quite a while to read through every post in this thread, but I did accomplish that. This thread as a myriad of good ideas, but I would like to address what I consider the root problem.

Kyle 1886 and I are from the same generation, albeit I am a bit older. Having rotated out of the service by 1963, I was even then aware of the movement involving the Illuminati. The premise was simple. By the very slow introduction of their future plans for the United States, the thought processes of the children in school had to begin a very slow re-molding of ideals and perceptions.

A simple statement by Pres. Ronald Reagan has been largely unnoticed by our current generation. And if it wasn't entirely unnoticed it was largely ignored. "It takes only one generation for Americans to lose their freedoms."

The true constitutionalist Americans in California are now greatly outnumbered. You already know the reason for this. The United States House, Senate and California politicians have created a climate in which illegals may now vote. None of you need a lesson in what this means, but it does mean you're outnumbered when it comes to making any significant changes of direction in California politics.

In the late 60s and early 70s, my homeport was San Francisco. I was at that time sailing on MSTS ships hauling Huey's, Phantom jets and munitions into Vietnam. Even in those days San Francisco and California were a quite different place than even 20 years ago. I greatly fear that political changes
within California are most likely now beyond salvage.… So what can you do now? I'm sure it will take more time than I have left to see those changes, but it must begin with your young people. Making that happen will require the efforts of the American family. I am fearful that the numbers of families
together enough and solid enough to make this happen may now be in the minority.

I am however heartened having read the responses in this thread. I can only hope and pray that your children and grandchildren will follow in your footsteps. I do hope and pray that the American family can rally and be involved in their children's lives to repeal the points of negativity that are currently being taught in public schools.

Well, my post is been a bit long and windy, but I would like to end it with something my own son wrote 20 years ago. I'm very fortunate that his children and my daughter's children are following in my footsteps.
I only know Kestryl through my daughter's interaction with him a very long time ago. I'm very fortunate that she and my son think exactly alike.
================================================== =

I hope you can take the time to read this:

There was a time in America when children could walk to school, could play outside their homes without fear, could trust their teachers, respected the Pledge of Allegiance, respected the Flag, had a sense of true competition and fair play, were proud of their schools, their Families, and their appearance. They played Cowboys and Indians, Good guy and Bad guy, Cops and Robbers all with toy guns, cap guns, bows and suction cup tipped arrows. They wouldn't stand by and watch a little girl be hit or abused, wouldn't back-talk to their teachers or elders. They weren't informed by their teachers about homosexuals and that despicable lifestyle as being "ok", in classes with young children.

Their "education" in all such things were the pervue of, and only the pervue of their Parents. Discipline began early and they learned early on that there were consequences for bad behavior.

Spanking was not the business of the CPS, teachers or bottom feeding attorneys. Bad behavior in school was reported to Parents and the appropriate discipline was meted out at home.

Education in school was pure, unslanted, unbiased education without a teacher's agenda. Factual American History "in it's entirety" following the true beginnings of this country were based on facts, not a teacher's "perception". American History in it's entirety was taught, learned and passed on from
generation to generation as being something of which all Americans could be proud. Citizens got angry with their Congressmen, Senators or the President, not "ashamed of".

All citizens, were taught, learned and understood that our Constitution was not written to impose your will on me.... Nor was it written to impose my will on you. It was written to protect the "individual" from an oppressive government and from the imposition of the imagined "for the good of the people" laws on me. Whatever ill wind blows to damage you personally has nothing whatsoever to do with changing my rights. Whatever happens to you is your problem, not mine, not the government's, and it it your sole responsibility to solve your problem without encroaching on my rights in any manner whatsoever.

Yes, there was a time when children played in the parks, the town squares, in the front yards and played childrens' games. Seven year olds played with toys, not computer generated weapons of destruction, mayhem and blood. They were Children, for God's sake. Children. The question isn't "where did it all go"?. We already know the answer to that. The real question is... when is the American Family going to wake up, reaquire and begin to teach it's inherent moral values, code of conduct and sense of pride in the Constitution, the Family and Country to their children.
Latigo St.Marie
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Last edited by Latigo; 09-01-2019 at 8:21 AM..
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