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  #1  
Old 01-01-2015, 8:35 AM
Toy4Rick Toy4Rick is offline
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Default So the FSC fun begins

Happy New Years everyone,

So my DROS is up today on a new Daniel Defense AR-15 and guess what, my FFL can't get online to take his portion of the FSC so I can't get my toy today.

Looks like it will be into next week before I can complete the transaction.

What a cluster, sure would have been nice if they would have let the FFLs get their portion done before Jan 1 but nooooo, that would be way to logical

Oh well, so much for a 10 day wait

Rick
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2015, 8:41 AM
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Dang, sorry to hear that. It's going to take a while for this to start working right.

For those of you with hunting licenses, that and the old HSC will exempt you from the FSC.

.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2015, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetMaven View Post
Dang, sorry to hear that. It's going to take a while for this to start working right.

For those of you with hunting licenses, that and the old HSC will exempt you from the FSC.

.
The old HSC will only exempt you for handgun purchases. Long gun purchase still need FSC, hunting license, CCW or some other exemption like LEO.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#3G

Quote:
If I already have a Handgun Safety Certificate, will I still need a Firearm Safety Certificate?
A valid HSC can still be used to purchase/acquire handguns until it expires. For long gun purchases/acquisitions made January 1, 2015, and thereafter, an FSC will be required. An FSC can be used for both handgun and long gun purchases/acquisitions.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky.Hawk View Post
The old HSC will only exempt you for handgun purchases. Long gun purchase still need FSC, hunting license, CCW or some other exemption like LEO.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#3G
The relevant FAQ does send you off to regs about CCW and LEO exemptions, but the hunting license thing will be the main aggravation saver for most. At a price.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#2G

.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2015, 11:54 AM
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I was able to access the system, update my CI profile, download all documents and issue an FSC today. It was all easy. The test is basic, and the safety demo is not challenging if one has even a modest amount of experience.

CIs can add applications to a cart and pay for several at one time and then print the FSC docs.

I am saving downloads of each FSC I issue so they can be reprinted in case of loss.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:00 PM
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Thanks for the reassurance. Is there an FSC question guide available for download by the buying public yet? I'm only able to find the old HSC online.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:08 PM
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I picked up my Colt 6940 on 12/31/14, sans all this FSC bull. I expect major glitches in the system but sure hope for the rest of you it comes up online quickly. This was my last PROC purchase. The FSC was the proverbial last straw for me.

Now I get to have fun researching optics and gear for this, my first AR platform rifle. Plan to get out to FS for a rifle class soon too.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:09 PM
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Been issuing FSC's all morning. So far other than the system being a little slow it has run well.
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:11 PM
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That's great to hear Condorguns. Hope it continues to run smoothly.
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  #10  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:11 PM
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I have my hunting license so that exempts me from taking the test unless I purchase a hand gun on which I have the original safety certificate.
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:19 PM
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Here is a link to the study guide - can be downloaded as a pdf. http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...rms/hscsg.pdf?

Sorry I could not make it pretty
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:21 PM
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Also, from the FSC FAQs -

I have and HSC, do I need an FSC?


A valid HSC can still be used to purchase/acquire handguns until it expires. For long gun purchases/acquisitions made January 1, 2015, and thereafter, an FSC will be required. An FSC can be used for both handgun and long gun purchases/acquisitions.
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  #13  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:26 PM
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How about a link to Log In for FSC instructors please.....
I have tried searches and other means to find the log in for this.

I should know it's location but I do not.
Thanking in advance.

Oh, I noticed Hunting License only an exemption from FSC as long as purchasing long guns. Handgun purchases would need another exemption or issuance of the card itself.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Gun Wife View Post
Here is a link to the study guide - can be downloaded as a pdf. http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...rms/hscsg.pdf?

Sorry I could not make it pretty
Thanks! They left the filename the same (starting with "h" for "handgun"), and that may be causing Google some confusion.
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  #15  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt P View Post
How about a link to Log In for FSC instructors please.....
I have tried searches and other means to find the log in for this.

I should know it's location but I do not.
Thanking in advance.

Oh, I noticed Hunting License only an exemption from FSC as long as purchasing long guns. Handgun purchases would need another exemption or issuance of the card itself.
https://fcs.doj.ca.gov/

You can log on there if you have a user name and password emails from the DOJ
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  #16  
Old 01-01-2015, 12:54 PM
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Thanks my brother.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2015, 11:04 PM
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So if I sell my AR to a friend, he now needs the FSC?
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by EspoMan View Post
So if I sell my AR to a friend, he now needs the FSC?
Yes.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Gun Wife View Post
Here is a link to the study guide - can be downloaded as a pdf. http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...rms/hscsg.pdf?

Sorry I could not make it pretty
I have to laugh...

On Page 17 they use a "High Capacity" Magazine
as part of their Gun Safety Illustrations.


I thought "High Capacity" magazines were inherently dangerous,
according to most California Politicians and AG Kamala Harris...

Thx for posting the link to the Study Guide, Cool Gun Wife ...


Noble
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2015, 8:44 AM
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Wait, from the looks of it the questions on the FSC are the exact same as those on the HSC. Why do we need to do the same test twice? Oh... so we can pay another $25 to the state. This is BS.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:51 AM
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I haven't found if there is an exemption for military personnel from the FSC. there is one for the HSC.

I hunt anyways so I have a hunting license.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:53 AM
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I have a have a hunter education certificate but have not bought a yearly license.

would I need to buy a yearly license?
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Old 01-02-2015, 9:16 AM
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boooo ****ing yah thank you hutning licenses now i dont have to get that dumb *** cert.
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Old 01-02-2015, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
Wait, from the looks of it the questions on the FSC are the exact same as those on the HSC. Why do we need to do the same test twice? Oh... so we can pay another $25 to the state. This is BS.
bingo
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Old 01-02-2015, 9:27 AM
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Here are the exemptions as listed in the FAQ's:

X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member
X98 = Valid Hunting License (long guns only)
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Old 01-02-2015, 9:40 AM
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I just purchased my first gun, a pistol. Now I found a shotgun for beginners (Moseberg Maverick 88). What website should I study to pass FSC exam? Is http://www.hunter-ed.com/california/ a overkill? I don't intent to get a hunting license in near future and just want to get a FSC asap. Are the questions very similar to HSC exam?

Edit: Never mind, found it https://fcs.doj.ca.gov/forms/FSC_Stu..._Compliant.pdf

Last edited by sueshake; 01-02-2015 at 9:51 AM..
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:00 AM
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One gun shop in my area has already called the DOJ and was told X41 is not a valid exemption for long guns.

This going to be fun. DOJ is making up the law as they see fit, or they have uninformed people working the phones.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryG View Post
One gun shop in my area has already called the DOJ and was told X41 is not a valid exemption for long guns.

This going to be fun. DOJ is making up the law as they see fit, or they have uninformed people working the phones.
Per DOJ.
X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member
X98 = Valid Hunting License (long guns only)

DOJ is pretty clear when an exemption is only for a certain category. The CCW has no restrictions listed.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryG View Post
One gun shop in my area has already called the DOJ and was told X41 is not a valid exemption for long guns.

This going to be fun. DOJ is making up the law as they see fit, or they have uninformed people working the phones.
I have heard that twice now. Hopefully they don't take that position come audit time. The PC is clear.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condorguns View Post
Per DOJ.
X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member
X98 = Valid Hunting License (long guns only)

DOJ is pretty clear when an exemption is only for a certain category. The CCW has no restrictions listed.
right, but they aren't even correct with that list. X13 is valid for C&R longguns as well. at least the PC allows for it. perhaps they are making a separate X code for C&R long guns.
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Old 01-02-2015, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryG View Post
One gun shop in my area has already called the DOJ and was told X41 is not a valid exemption for long guns.
That is funny.Found something a CCW is not good for. Pete
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Old 01-02-2015, 2:42 PM
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Default Here they go again ...

PC 31700
Quote:
ARTICLE 3. Exceptions to Firearm Safety Certificate Requirement [31700 - 31835]

31700.

(a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted from the firearm safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a) of Section 31615:

(1) Any active or honorably retired peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

(2) Any active or honorably retired federal officer or law enforcement agent.

(3) Any reserve peace officer, as defined in Section 832.6.

(4) Any person who has successfully completed the course of training specified in Section 832.

(5) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, who is acting in the course and scope of that person’s activities as a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive.

(6) A federally licensed collector who is acquiring or being loaned a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the department pursuant to Section 26710.

(7) A person to whom a firearm is being returned, where the person receiving the firearm is the owner of the firearm.

(8) A family member of a peace officer or deputy sheriff from a local agency who receives a firearm pursuant to Section 50081 of the Government Code.

(9) Any individual who has a valid concealed weapons permit issued pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5.

(10) An active or honorably retired member of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, the Air National Guard, or the active reserve components of the United States, where individuals in those organizations are properly identified. For purposes of this section, proper identification includes the Armed Forces Identification Card or other written documentation certifying that the individual is an active or honorably retired member.

(11) Any person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms pursuant to Section 26025 or 26030.

(12) Persons who are the holders of a special weapons permit issued by the department pursuant to Section 32650 or 33300, pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 18900) of Chapter 1 of Division 5 of Title 2, or pursuant to Article 4 (commencing with Section 32700) of Chapter 6 of this division.

(b) The following persons who take title or possession of a firearm by operation of law in a representative capacity, until or unless they transfer title ownership of the firearm to themselves in a personal capacity, are exempted from the firearm safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a) of Section 31615:

(1) The executor or administrator of an estate.

(2) A secured creditor or an agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, or an agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, a default under a security agreement under the Commercial Code.

(3) A levying officer, as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or 680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure.

(4) A receiver performing the functions of a receiver.

(5) A trustee in bankruptcy performing the duties of a trustee.

(6) An assignee for the benefit of creditors performing the functions of an assignee.

(c) A person, validly identified, who has been issued a valid hunting license that is unexpired or that was issued for the hunting season immediately preceding the calendar year in which the person takes title of possession of a firearm is exempt from the firearm safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a) of Section 31615, except as to handguns.

(d) This section shall become operative on January 1, 2015.
31700 (a)(6) indeed limits the exemption to C&R for C&R licensees with COE (X13)

31700 (a)(9) does NOT limit the exemption to handguns only (X41)

And, I'm guessing 31700 (a)(11) refers to X91 - 26030 is guard card with firearms certificate
Quote:

(a) Section 25850 does not apply to any of the following who have been issued a certificate pursuant to subdivision (d):

(1) Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions, while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.

(2) Guards of contract carriers operating armored vehicles pursuant to California Highway Patrol and Public Utilities Commission authority, if they were hired prior to January 1, 1977.

(3) Guards of contract carriers operating armored vehicles pursuant to California Highway Patrol and Public Utilities Commission authority, if they were hired on or after January 1, 1977, and they have completed a course in the carrying and use of firearms that meets the standards prescribed by the Department of Consumer Affairs.

(4) Private investigators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.3 (commencing with Section 7512) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their employment.

(5) Uniformed employees of private investigators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.3 (commencing with Section 7512) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their employment.

(6) Private patrol operators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.5 (commencing with Section 7580) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their employment.

(7) Uniformed employees of private patrol operators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.5 (commencing with Section 7580) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their employment.

(8) Alarm company operators licensed pursuant to Chapter 11.6 (commencing with Section 7590) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, while acting within the course and scope of their employment.

(9) Uniformed security guards or night watch persons employed by any public agency, while acting within the scope and course of their employment.

(10) Uniformed security guards, regularly employed and compensated in that capacity by persons engaged in any lawful business, and uniformed alarm agents employed by an alarm company operator, while actually engaged in protecting and preserving the property of their employers, or on duty or en route to or from their residences or their places of employment, and security guards and alarm agents en route to or from their residences or employer-required range training.

(b) Nothing in paragraph (10) of subdivision (a) shall be construed to prohibit cities and counties from enacting ordinances requiring alarm agents to register their names.

(c) A certificate under this section shall not be required of any person who is a peace officer, who has completed all training required by law for the exercise of the person’s power as a peace officer, and who is employed while not on duty as a peace officer.

(d) The Department of Consumer Affairs may issue a certificate to any person referred to in this section, upon notification by the school where the course was completed, that the person has successfully completed a course in the carrying and use of firearms and a course of training in the exercise of the powers of arrest, which meet the standards prescribed by the department pursuant to Section 7583.5 of the Business and Professions Code.
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Last edited by Librarian; 01-02-2015 at 2:48 PM..
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  #33  
Old 01-02-2015, 2:57 PM
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So how do we fix the problem for X41 - do we have to sue them over that too or is there an easier route? I wonder what my favorite FFL will say or do, I will try and ask him if he has heard anything.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:16 PM
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Default Firearm Safety Certificate - FSC - Ask questions here only

All really simple but as I was leaving the clerk said to replace a lost card would cost $5.00 and the ONLY PERSON that could get me the replacement card was the original guy that gave it to me in the first place! So if I lose the card tomorrow and the clerk gets fired he has to come back and somehow authorize that I can have a replacement? Or just pay another $25.00 and retake the test. Is this FUD?This took place at Big 5 in Tulare.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:21 PM
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sounds like BS but what do i know, this is a new test. i thought you had to get a replacement at the same place that issued you your first card.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:36 PM
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Thumbs down Firearm Safety Certificate - FSC - Ask questions here only

So I started giving the FSC today at work. Why is DOJ requiring credit card only? Our store charges $10 at the cash register. Then the testee is taken in a room where he/she is given the new test, and also the firearm affidavit ( need to show you can remove lock, load and unload the firearm. At the completion you then are required to pay the additional $15 using a credit or debit card. No cash or check accepted.
So the DOJ is requiring you to have a credit card if you want to buy a certificate to be able to purchase a firearm!!! Seems a little overreach for the DOJ. Sounds a little unconstitional. What do you guys think
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:41 PM
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So if I get one in my hometown in let's say, Eureka. And then move to San Diego and lose it. I have to go all the way to Eureka to get another one?
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:42 PM
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who says that the customer must be the one that pays CADOJ the $15 directly. why can't they just pay the dealer the $25 and the dealer covers the $15 payment to CADOJ and pockets the $10?

I know other dealers have been talking in the FFL forum about how the $15 payment should work. what happens to the instructor if the customer disputes the $15 charge? does CADOJ put a hold on the instructor's ability to issue certs if he is in arrears with CADOJ?
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:46 PM
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I am not using a customer card in the FSC system. I don't want to deny my customers the card if they don't have a credit card. I also am not going to be stuck with DOJ if the customer reverses charges.

So far it has worked. Time consuming, but doable.
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Old 01-02-2015, 8:48 PM
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Great. I'm buying a lower off this guy tomorrow and was wondering what the FSC scam was going to be like at the transfer.
I hear it's the same crap as the HSC.
Just another tax!
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