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  #1  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Kestryll Kestryll is offline
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Default Where does Calguns go from here?

I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.

We've had some truly tragic events recently, Gilroy, El Paso and Dayton, and while we as gun owners mourn the senseless loss of life the politicians who see our freedoms as something 'in the way' of their ability to control our lives use these tragedies as stepping stones towards their desire for a disarmed America.

We talk a good game when we have a win, Freedom Week was great and everyone was all ready to go all Gadsden over their new magazines, but what happened a week or two later? The big discussions were over which companies hadn't delivered yet and what we'd been 'lucky enough to score'.

When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, organizations like CRPA and NRA are fighting hard for us in the courts and despite the super-majority the anti-civil rights Democrats hold in California the CRPA and NRA have full time lobbyists in Sacramento trying to prevent bad bills from becoming bad laws. But the real question becomes is all we can do is let them carry our water and hope they win?

There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?

I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.

I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process. Yes, we're outnumbered but there is still a LOT of us here and people are voting less each election which means win or lose our voice can stand out as something to be reckoned with. We're not going to change things quickly or everywhere all at once, we need to try to make changes locally first.


As I said I've stated my thoughts numerous times but my thoughts aren't what count, your thoughts are what I need to hear.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?


We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:12 PM
kmas kmas is offline
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Reply being penned ...

Last edited by kmas; 08-19-2019 at 12:31 PM..
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:26 PM
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Default Thank you

Oh, Elder of the Calguns Tribe,

Thanks for initiating this.

Here are my answers to your Q's from someone who is:

ex-UK (where all our parties are traditionally left of America's)
ex-active military (teaching now)
Still friendly with liberals and white supremacists (old friends who have developed these views over the years)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
YOUR QUESTIONS:

"Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path? Partially, but ...

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party? NO

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here? NO

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A? NO

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts? NO

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community? NO "

--------------------------------------------------------------------
All we need to do is take to heart your suggestions for more active involvement.

I have been "brainwashing" my hundreds of students - civilian and military - about the joys of gun ownership and shooting.

My children who live on the Eastern side of our great country are often asked : "what?? you're from California and you like guns and go shooting !!?"

About a third of my students have gone to the range (I've taken a few ...) and maybe a third of those end up becoming gun owners, while others still enjoy range time with rented guns.

Of course as you mention, we also need to get involved with our govt. reps.

Last edited by kmas; 08-19-2019 at 12:30 PM..
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:14 PM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is offline
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I think will be un-American to limit members who do not have a pro second amendment view of things. Not only that, it would be awfully boring.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2019, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.

There are multiple subjects I disagree with you on, but I agree with every word in this comment.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
Wowww CG --- Except the first line, I never been banned ... I do fear it That's ^^^ almost word for word what I wanted to say, but since you write better than me ... I'll just 2'nd your post.

Nice job Sir
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  #8  
Old 08-21-2019, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
Agree. 100%
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  #9  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:20 PM
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great questions.

i am wrong to suspect open activism is low because in today's digital information age, it is too easy for our enemies to hurt us once we openly identify ourselves?
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:33 PM
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I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Default my response exactly

This person answered each of these questions as I would for what it is worth.

I'd like to know what calguns.net is going to do politically if anything? No offense to the many who give money to lawyers and file law suits but I feel the industry can (and should) fund that; I'm interested in winning elections again. Is anyone going to work on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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Can'thavenuthingood Can'thavenuthingood is offline
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Citadel captured most all my thoughts in Post #5 as did ojisan in Post #25

This been driving me nuts for years.

Howcum we do not present CALGUNS.NET as a separate entity in Sacramento?

We want to be an Activist org but we skip a Primary and possibly effective course of action by not showing our numbers in Sac. A large voting bloc of Californian citizenry present at various hearings in Sacramento along with or in support of the NRA and CRPA guys would have to have some affect on the Committee members.

We did it once a few years ago with Walter White leading the charge, many Calgunners present and voiced their views and all wearing a simple "NO" tag. The placed was loaded with anti gun types bused in for the hearing on a group of proposed anti gun laws, a package deal I forgot the name used for it.

Why is it only the NRA and the CRPA are allowed to represent gun owners at the various Committee meetings in Sac? Two entities, why not three enties and a herd of Californians present to state their views on proposed Legislation? It would be a visible presence more effective than 2 Lobbyists. GOC shows up but he seems to be poo pooed by the NRA and CRPA, maybe thats changed as I am out of touch with this anymore.

If we can stop a proposed Bill from reaching the floor of the Senate or Assembly it does not get voted on for Yay or Nay into law. Why wait for a Law to become effective and THEN put up a fight in the slow moving Courts? Why not start the fight in the Committee hearings? Yes there is the Gut and Amend route these yahoos take bypassing procedures.

We have 306,657 Members with 21,592 Active Members, surely out of that mix we can get a few folks to appear at these Committee hearings to voice their concerns and maybe slow down the anti gun crap. The anti-gun folks are almost always present at these hearings in numbers but we are not. Why?

Letters are nice and phone calls are easy but a warm body staring at these potlickers is far more effective. Face to Face folks will typically be cordial and listen. After all these years and still only 2 maybe 3 pro gun lobbyist's show up to fight for OUR rights, howcum we, as in CALGUNS.NET and Californian Citizens, are not there also?

Only a few Committees are typically used in Gun Legislation; Safety -Appropriations- Health though I'm sure they will figure ways around this to avoid pro gun representation.
Senate Committee Hearings Assembly Committee Hearings

The Forums current rules are good and proven.

The Moderators are doing a Superb job of monitoring this site keeping it civil and organized, Thank you all.

Kestryll, I think loading up a few of the Moderators in your truck and going out to few events around the state every now and again might very well pump some adrenaline into the heart of this site. I suspect even create more active Activists.




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  #13  
Old 08-22-2019, 4:18 PM
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357manny 357manny is offline
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Thanks Kyle for giving me the template!

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes, stay the course.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No; but we should probably figure out a way to outreach to those firearms owners who are more "in the middle".

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No; we need standards.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No; opinions and views go a long way to what makes Calguns. I believe we could do with more outreach, bring in the younger crowd, or just those who are firearm-friendly, just not involved.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No; we absolutely need rules for civil discussion and behavior. And need to follow them

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No; they go hand in hand. I didn't realize this when I first joined Calguns--I was looking for how best to prepare for owning a firearm. Didn't know until further along, 2A rights are under attack. Being ignorant is no excuse, but yes, I was ignorant.



I would like to see more outreach, group events, or something like community activities, up here in Nor Cal. When I first joined Calguns, we lived in Pasadena, so I jumped in on a few of the Burbank Firing Line get togethers--it was great. Down in SoCal, there seem to be SO many more places to shoot.

We've lived up here in the North Bay a couple of years, but I'm not super familiar with the places to go. I would definitely get involved if we had something going on close by or even a bit of a drive away. I'm totally looking forward to USI Concord to reopening.
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Old 08-23-2019, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle


This for me too.
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2019, 9:53 PM
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I've been a member of Calguns since the days of Ramon. It was a smaller community back then. Almost everyone was of like mind. I do remember there were trolls, but they were dismissed and left unfed.

I was glad when Kestryll was able to bring us Calguns 2.0 and progress was made in the area of off-list lowers. Milpitas and soon Taft became the meccas for northern California and southern California respectively. I still have my Stag lowers from the early days.

We had something to fight for and everyone was on board. No doubt the California AG's office and DOJ gathered more information from Calguns than their own investigations. Eventually it was used against the 2A proponents, but that's the price of open discussions.

Then came the fiasco by the Los Angeles DA's office against BlackWaterOps. All of us learned about the dangers of an open internet and social media. Again Calguns was at the front of the battle. Not everyone agreed about this case, but it opened everyone's eyes. Again the result of open discussions, pro and con.

Frank and open discussions are what makes Calguns a great forum. I look down upon censorship of any kind. Back in the day of AOL chat rooms, I was a host for Paintball. I worked in the paintball industry and wanted to promote the new sport. All hosts were trained by AOL to maintain their standards and were equipped with the ability to gag and ban members in chat rooms. I only gagged people in direct violation of AOL policy (mostly vulgarity) and only because it was probably an AOL shill.

Calguns needs to maintain a family friendly atmosphere. Kids do have access. We need to police our own actions whenever possible, but moderators are needed as well.

Regarding 2A issues, Calguns has forums for activists. Unfortunately not everyone is motivated until something hits close to home. It was the same way in the paintball industry. We were always worried that something would happen to ban the sport. David Horowitz and the toy gun ban came close. Most people in the paintball industry never realized how close it got. On a national level, paintball was banned from SHOT by NSSF. The ban was lifted only after Daisy became involved in paintball. I'm glad I was able to help facilitate that endeavor.

The popularity of Calguns is it's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness. I'm not sure what would happen if left unchecked.
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Old 08-26-2019, 4:48 PM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes and No. Modify the path. .

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

loosen it up a little. We can’t have hurt feelings so much here. If we Americans had The same hurt feelings decades ago, we would’ve lost world war 2.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No. But again we need to loosen up a little bit and let strong civil discourse opinions be spoken to our enemy, which is people against the Second Amendment, or ANY part of the constitution for that matter. After all, this is still a pro second amendment gun forum. The framing fathers believed in our rights, sealed them into history on paper, fought and then died for those rights for future generations to come. We can do the same in this forum through tactful words, explanations, and opinions but we do need to be a little tougher all around. We need more thick skinned people to voice and defend their pro-2A opinions. We need to honor what our forefathers created and then fought for.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

Yes, loosen up some. No name calling, but also don’t ban someone that labels an anti gunner soy-boy for who he/she really is.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

Heck no! I think the thin skinned people need to go elsewhere.

Personally, I like to use the great Constitutionalist Mark Levin as an example of how we communicate with our anti-constitutional enemies out there. The left slams us, so we should “Trump” up the responses just a tad, but more like Mark Levin does on his radio show. That is with tact, no outward name calling with foul language, nor racism.

...you asked, just my opinion.
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Old 09-04-2019, 7:37 AM
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100% agreed. Stop pampering fork tongued leftists who come in here trashing the NRA and complaining about gun rights being taken away, while in the same time they stab us in the back by voting for our arch enemies: Democrat politicians. Let's be frank about them: if they would give a crap about the Second Amendment they wouldn't support the people who are sworn to destroy it. It's past time to recognize and separate those who believe guns are a Constitutionally protected right, and those who believe guns are a hobby.
I'm not advocating for kicking them out of Calguns. I love having them around, my boatswain used to say "God made imbeciles so the rest of us could have comic relief laughing at them from time to time". I'm just saying they should be put on notice what they are doing is wrong and damaging to our cause, even if their delicate feelings are hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes and No. Modify the path. .

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

loosen it up a little. We can’t have hurt feelings so much here. If we Americans had The same hurt feelings decades ago, we would’ve lost world war 2.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No. But again we need to loosen up a little bit and let strong civil discourse opinions be spoken to our enemy, which is people against the Second Amendment, or ANY part of the constitution for that matter. After all, this is still a pro second amendment gun forum. The framing fathers believed in our rights, sealed them into history on paper, fought and then died for those rights for future generations to come. We can do the same in this forum through tactful words, explanations, and opinions but we do need to be a little tougher all around. We need more thick skinned people to voice and defend their pro-2A opinions. We need to honor what our forefathers created and then fought for.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

Yes, loosen up some. No name calling, but also don’t ban someone that labels an anti gunner soy-boy for who he/she really is.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

Heck no! I think the thin skinned people need to go elsewhere.

Personally, I like to use the great Constitutionalist Mark Levin as an example of how we communicate with our anti-constitutional enemies out there. The left slams us, so we should “Trump” up the responses just a tad, but more like Mark Levin does on his radio show. That is with tact, no outward name calling with foul language, nor racism.

...you asked, just my opinion.
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Old 09-04-2019, 1:17 PM
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... fork tongued leftists ...,
our arch enemies: Democrat politicians...
It's past time to recognize and separate ...

..."God made imbeciles so the rest of us could have comic relief laughing at them from time to time"....

... even if their delicate feelings are hurt.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:35 PM
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F bombs and insults don't win arguments or impress anyone for that matter.

How do you get the membership more involved? IDK. But I've not seen too many requests for help.

Some smart person can probably compose a list of "to do's".
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:36 PM
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I don't post much heck I lurked for about 2 years before even joining but I like this place.

Do I agree with everything posted here ? HECK NO but i've gotten quite a bit of information too. Civil discussion is a norm on ALL message boards as well as society so yeah keep that. If some choose not to follow than yes there should be a cost.

On the political front I think if you focus on only one side you end up with what we have in the world already , a bunch of ignorant fools lol. Heck there are some ignorant fools here , some I like some I wouldn't take a leak on if on fire , if I knew them in person. Not saying there aren't some who may feel the same about me but I can live with that , can they ?

This board sometimes reminds me of the military , you know a bunch of people that don't really know each other but have something in common that brings them together. There is stuff posted here that if I knew the person i'd probably end up buying them a beer OR one of us would be injured lmao. But it doesn't keep me away because I understand differences in opinions doesn't make either party right.

I enjoy firearms and the knowledge this board has given me on things I didn't know about.

We could/should figure out some ways to attend town halls and court dates to show our strength , that may help us ?

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Old 08-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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As it is , it’s mostly people lost in their head and you have to wade through a lot of poop to find useful information. It’s already a forum where people stuck in angry thought patterns jump down anyone’s throat who isn’t a dogmatic gundamentalist. People addicted to outrage are coming to every social media platform and either looking to find something to be angry about or get others angry about. It’s unhealthy.

I got an email from CRPA about a meeting not too far from me. People are much more polite , less angry and constructive in person than on an anonymous forum. Maybe , Regional groups can meet to compare notes on what works and what doesn’t for gun rights.

When we organized our Neighborhood Watch , at first it was on line and people just posted rants , took everything personally , and nothing happened . The people eager to criticize never showed up to do anything. So we changed it. In person meetings only. It was an amazing difference . The *******s and complainers never showed up. We had a core group and we met with other groups and officials and learned what worked and what didn’t . We transformed not just our neighborhood but helped surrounding neighborhoods. We don’t text or email but to post meeting topics and times. Everything is discussed face to face. Old school but the results have been great.

I’m sure more would get done in person and comparing notes with people who have had success with 2A rights than just online . Group consensus is rough, especially with ego’s and those who have lost their resilience to encountering things they don’t like or agree with.
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Old 08-21-2019, 4:52 AM
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As it is , itís mostly people lost in their head and you have to wade through a lot of poop to find useful information. Itís already a forum where people stuck in angry thought patterns jump down anyoneís throat who isnít a dogmatic gundamentalist. People addicted to outrage are coming to every social media platform and either looking to find something to be angry about or get others angry about. Itís unhealthy.

I got an email from CRPA about a meeting not too far from me. People are much more polite , less angry and constructive in person than on an anonymous forum. Maybe , Regional groups can meet to compare notes on what works and what doesnít for gun rights.

When we organized our Neighborhood Watch , at first it was on line and people just posted rants , took everything personally , and nothing happened . The people eager to criticize never showed up to do anything. So we changed it. In person meetings only. It was an amazing difference . The *******s and complainers never showed up. We had a core group and we met with other groups and officials and learned what worked and what didnít . We transformed not just our neighborhood but helped surrounding neighborhoods. We donít text or email but to post meeting topics and times. Everything is discussed face to face. Old school but the results have been great.

Iím sure more would get done in person and comparing notes with people who have had success with 2A rights than just online . Group consensus is rough, especially with egoís and those who have lost their resilience to encountering things they donít like or agree with.
This, more in person meetups.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:05 PM
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I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:25 PM
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I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
I am one of which you speak. CA going down the tubes is an example of what we all can expect and reason to stay involved. For every State that fights back and wins court battles, it only strengthens CA folk's resolve. Many of us that has left the state, still belongs to Calguns as well as other gun forums. Many of us still contribute to the cause in CA as well as our new state and Nationally. I do agree with you, we need to stay involved in CA. Gun laws follow us wherever we go.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:18 PM
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I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
So I'll tell you as an out-of-stater but a person who really believes in gun rights in California, I am a huge Pro Idaho guy. That said, I still donate to california-based forums, gun programs, education and father random things here and

I would love to be a part of something on Calguns even if I just donated financially and I like the concept of being a voter almost if things were sort it out and somehow could be used as a spear head into litigations or more. I wish Calguns had a fund that I could pour money into if I have extra and be a voting member if you donate to the cause. I don't know what that looks like I'm just throwing some ideas out there so don't take my word is anything but some Jose Schmo in Idaho but I'm with you in spirit and heart.

I've been asked over and over again by people on this for my I still hang out here and why I like it, and it's because I have met a ton of people a small number of whom I have feedback from for sales, trades, and more. I would love to be a part of something bigger I just don't know how to do that without some guided Direction.
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Old 10-04-2019, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HUTCH 7.62 View Post
I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
I left California back in June and now live in Arizona; needless to say, I still am active here since I frequently visit California and might even one day return. I like to stay up to date with all 2A issues in California because every time I return, I return with pistols to go shoot at my old local ranges, and I too was under that strict Californian firearm steel curtain before leaving.

I just became a member of CRPA on Saturday in an effort to be more up to date and support as much as I can. I think people out of state that hate California because of its strict gun laws and liberal laws fail to realize that if California was more 2A friendly, the whole firearm community would benefit from it in that sales would skyrocket due to the huge numbers of firearm supporters we have in the state. Also, in being more 2A friendly, the firearm community from other states would dare venture more to California knowing that the law would not deviate as much as it does currently from their home state.

It is just a shame that this state, once part of the wild wild west and very pro gun, has become a shell of its former self......
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:06 PM
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I think we are good as is.. the only thing we need more of is, activism. The problem the pro gun, republican, right wing side, is we all have jobs and families that depend on us. If I could afford it, I’d be marching the steps every day. But the truth is many of us can’t! We work for our food, insurance, cell phones, etc.

Is there some way we can do it? I’m sure! But I not have the answer. I do know that we need more activism though. Even a promotional commercial that could be aired on tv about concealed carry and the good things that guns help with.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:38 PM
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We must capture the minds of the youth.
Maybe some sort of a CalGuns youth drive to gain new shooters?

Even a "Call of Duty" type shoot based on video games for young shooters to teach them about the 2nd amendment and gun safety? Like Appleseed meets Call of Duty?

More youth shooting events for IDPA, USPSA, ATA, etc? Make stages like "Grand Theft Auto" with animated graphics pasted on targets and such?

....someone younger might have better ideas on how to attract the youngsters!
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:14 PM
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We must capture the minds of the youth.
Maybe some sort of a CalGuns youth drive to gain new shooters?

Even a "Call of Duty" type shoot based on video games for young shooters to teach them about the 2nd amendment and gun safety? Like Appleseed meets Call of Duty?

More youth shooting events for IDPA, USPSA, ATA, etc? Make stages like "Grand Theft Auto" with animated graphics pasted on targets and such?

....someone younger might have better ideas on how to attract the youngsters!
I too think it starts with the youth. More education about the history of our country and how firearms have played the crucial role in winning and keeping free men free.

I don't think they are teaching this in schools now, and the younger generation seems to get their gun background from video games and news on school shootings, unless they are being taught by responsible gun owning parents at an early age which seem to be dwindling as time goes on.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:42 PM
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It’s a car culture, not a gun culture.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:45 PM
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I definitely don’t think that the family friendly aspect should be changed.

I view this place as the old bar where I hang out with the old and middle aged folks that share most of my values and viewpoints and help me develop my views on things or put in words things that I can’t.

I act up every now and then and get put into my place with no real world repercussions.

I like this bar. Don’t go disco, keep it country.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:52 PM
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I am very happy to see this post. I have noticed that many prominent people in the "gun community" have started to engage in political discourse, when they had totally avoided it in the past. I think that the prior avoidance was for a several reasons, but mostly due to the social stigma that the Democrats and the media have successfully but illegitimately applied to those on the Right, and also due to the nature of those who lean Right, which is generally going to be someone who respects an individual's autonomy and has a "live and let live" perspective. I am thankful that many now see how the Left's attack on free discussion with the PC culture long-game has really changed things.


Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
This is a very difficult one to answer. Many will reply with no as their answer, but it is impossible to ignore the assault on not only the Second Amendment, but also the general assault on American ideals coming from the Leftist Democrat party. Yes, of course there are many good people who are Democrats, some whom are prominent members here that present ludicrous ideas, but are probably generally good at heart. However, the Democrat party is corrupt and their agenda is antithetical to the idea of liberty. We also cannot ignore the proposed blatant infringements coming from a select few in the Republican party. The important distinction is that the entire Democrat party wants extreme if not outright gun control, and a few in the Republican party want compromise gun control. Overwhelmingly, the party that supports gun rights and freedom is clearly the Republicans. Should we make that known? Absolutely. Anything otherwise is to our detriment. We should also make it known that compromise gun control is not acceptable.


Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No. Standards are a good thing, and there's no reason to join the Left with their degradation of a good and moral society.


Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No. Let's hear all voices, and counter their bad ideas with our good ideas.


Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Many will disagree on the definition of these things, but it's probably a good idea to keep things civil so there is not a bunch of cluttered nonsense that destroys a good debate.


Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
This is a great question, and I'm sure that you know my answer based upon my responses to the previous questions. We absolutely must have a defense to the attack on our way of life. It is undeniable that we are almost ready to die the death of 1000 cuts that have been inflicted by incremental gun control over many, many years. Every major Democrat presidential candidate is now calling for gun confiscation, by force of law. The oft-quoted "All that's necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" statement seems to be quite relevant to our situation. So we either get more involved politically, or we will be railroaded by the political process.
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Old 08-19-2019, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Yes.

Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No.

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No.

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
No.

Generally speaking, I donít think CGN should change anything. From how I understand your points, you want the members here to be more engaged in fighting for our rights. I donít think changing the rules here will motivate more people to fight that fight. I see CGN as a place where we can discuss the issues and try to find solutions. But if you want people to engage their representatives more (even though I think our views fall on deaf ears especially with my state & federal representatives), then I think we need to hold events where we actually get away from our computers, tablets, smartphones, etc. and do something. Like have information tables at local events across the state. Pass out flyers. And maybe focus on NorCal. (I feel that SoCal-gunners are more involved here than us NorCal-gunners.). Maybe what we need is another arm to CGN that is more real-world activist than keyboard activist?
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Old 08-19-2019, 2:36 PM
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CGN ain't broke, don't fix it.

Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?

Thanks Kes.
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Old 08-21-2019, 9:39 AM
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Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?
Not singling you out, as a number of members here have made this same suggestion (you were just the first ).

As somewhat logical as it seems on the face of it, we can't place this requirement on new members. How many posts have we seen from new folks asking advice on buying their first gun ... or where to shoot ... or even ... "how do I get started?" I guarantee none of those people were NRA members before buying their first firearm.

We need to be active participants in expanding our numbers, and requiring NRA/CPRA creds will not do that.

Now ... before the warriors come here and ask "what do you do to get new shooters/members" ... I am a marksmanship and skeet group leader for a 4H club. I get several new shooters each year.

Now ... there is a real problem with some ideas for the "interpretation" of, or "solutions" to pending legislation being spied upon by folks who don't agree with our lifestyles. I am certainly for creating a sub-forum which is strictly devoted to discussions on how to creatively stay within the law (i.e., think bullet button, featureless, and other solutions we came up with in the past). For this sub-forum, I would recommend that members must have at least 750 posts or are verified vendors.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by M76 View Post
CGN ain't broke, don't fix it.

Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?

Thanks Kes.
I like that idea. it would thin the herd, but the downside would be the gun newbie who might not be ready to join the "evil NRA" or similar ilk?
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:15 PM
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It seems we cannot keep up with the opposition and the courts can't either. The increasing calls to obliterate our natural rights is unnerving to the extreme.

I'm trying to act local and shape young minds and bringing new people into the fold in a holistic way (natural rights is the emphasis so not just a one trick 2A ponyshow). Until we change how our democracy works it's a simple numbers game so working on the numbers is the way to go for me.

In the meantime the only real hope for significant change are some major clarifications from SCOTUS. Those will be long in coming and meagerly incremental.
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:51 PM
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I think calguns has been great in it's moderation of the forum itself and should maintain it's current policy. However you are very right on the need for more activism, maybe outreach too? Idk maybe we can have regional meetings? Online only? To decide a gameplan?
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Old 08-19-2019, 4:06 PM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Continue as is.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No. We have a democrat majority in this state. Without them on board we will get nothing except through the courts.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No. This site is the "face" of California gun owners. We need a good image.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Soap Box:
The MSM won't let that happen anymore.

Ballot Box:
The left is in control and they don't care about us to put it politely.
My Reps are Boxer, Feinstein, Shiff, Friedman and Portantino.
I have no representation in government at this time.

Jury Box:
We wait on the courts.
Not much else to do.
Ultimately we will prevail.

Otherwise, it's on to the next box and nobody wants that.

I wish I had more to offer, but for now we wait on the courts.
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Old 08-19-2019, 4:35 PM
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NSFW & Porn/Pork/Bacon; hell yeah! LL has gone to **** CG needs to adapt to more like 4 chan
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