Mob defense

[bigguns85]

Has anyone though about how to defend against a mob? I saw this video yesterday and was thinking about how to take out mobs besides running them over or shooting them lol

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukdkgL...ure%3Dyoutu.be

You might run into this while trying to bug out

[Steelplate45]

Don't provoke a large group of stupid people.

[bigguns85]

lol They were roaming around looking for trouble they surounded his car then one guy intetionally braked to cause an accident. He tryed to stop and work it out but they imediatly started to atack him so he drove off. I would personaly tryed to knock them over like bowling pins if they would have followed me. The last resourt would be to pop a cap at a stop sign. The best part is no police showed up so your own your own lol The guy ended up in the hospital and the wife and baby was left alone luckly. This is why you need high cap magazines lol

[Eldraque]

Originally Posted by bigguns85

This is why you need high cap magazines lol

You mean "standard" capacity magazines?


An American voting for obama is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders

[bigguns85]

I didnt know a 50 round mag for a glock is standard that would be awsome lol Thats what I have in mind for them lol

[wheels]

A minigun has a psychological as well as a physical effect.

Incoming artillery sends a pretty good message around the 1 minute mark.



http://youtu.be/Si1hxVYlDqw

[Granite]

Caltrops for tires, nails and screws as a secondary plan.

Driver could have made a call to get support.

Go to an area with a stronger force, police department.

[bigguns85]

Originally Posted by wheels

A minigun has a psychological as well as a physical effect.

Incoming artillery sends a pretty good message around the 1 minute mark.

Could you post a link my player will not support the embeded player.

[Divernhunter]

C-140 Spooky gunship will work just fine.

[Uriah02]

Don't provoke stupid people. Don't try to make it worse. The Rover driver should've been on the phone with the police as soon as it turned ugly. If the Rover driver was armed he may not have gotten beaten but he would've been in a different world of trouble...

[tamalpias]

call the cops and head to the closest police station. if they continue to harrass the guy run them over. The driver was not to bright to get himself stuck in traffic.

[kaligaran]

Originally Posted by tamalpias

call the cops and head to the closest police station. if they continue to harrass the guy run them over. The driver was not to bright to get himself stuck in traffic.

This is true.

In a SHTF survival situation, anything goes. In a cage vs bike fight, the cage will win every time.

[bigguns85]

Originally Posted by Uriah02

Don't provoke stupid people. Don't try to make it worse. The Rover driver should've been on the phone with the police as soon as it turned ugly. If the Rover driver was armed he may not have gotten beaten but he would've been in a different world of trouble...

He probally was. Just remeber he was in New York where a gun for self defense is prutty much illegal. Also the police have no obligation to do anything and often dont for situations like that untill things settle down which means your own your own. Fun fact the police have no obligation to do anything, they can witness a murder and dont have to do anything acording to the supreme court. That means they hae no legal obligation to protect you or uphold the law especially in a civial unrest or mob situation. A minigun or mourter is nice if it is a WROL but in this case it was just a bunch of douch bikers picking fights. Im thinking maybe cary barbwire in your car for a makshift spike strip that is cut to 5 feet lengths as well as a trusty .45

[kalieaire]

If anyone cares, he was actually driving in the direction of the closest precinct, he should have turned right on the last street before he stopped since it was clear, but he probably panicked. he was also on the phone as soon as they began swarming him before the dumb guy brake checked him.

the police said what he did was justified and that he should have gotten away from the situation whenever he had the chance. however, the guidelines from 911 ops and from what officers usually give as "golden" rules don't always work in this type of situation.

[Lifeon2whls]

Originally Posted by bigguns85

Has anyone though about how to defend against a mob? I saw this video yesterday and was thinking about how to take out mobs besides running them over or shooting them lol

Drive through it and dont stop. His mistake was that he stopped. He could have reversed out of there and still be on the move and he wouldnt have been attacked. The Police have not charged Lien with anything (yet) which seems to indicate they feel he was justified for what he did.

The other thing is that bikers don't just swarm a car and try to stop it for no reason. Something happened prior to the start of the video that hasn't surfaced yet or been reported on. My guess is that Lien honked/swerved/etc the bike who then brake checked him in response. Not warranted but group mentality and why you should not provoke and stay away or be as no nondescript as possible. Watch the video again and you'll notice that there were other vehicles on the road that we not bothered by the bikers.

[kaligaran]

Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls

My guess is that Lien honked/swerved/etc the bike who then brake checked him in response. Not warranted but group mentality and why you should not provoke and stay away or be as no nondescript as possible.

Supposedly the bike brake-checked him to get him to stop/slow so that all the bikes could have the road (they are a stunt group).

Of course no one really knows what happened in the first place. That's just what I read this morning.

[KevinB]

A man with his wife and kids, I would have never stopped until I was next to several police. The only saving grace with the attackers was they didn't touch his wife and kids.

By the way, all of the video seen so far has been edited for content favoring the attackers, at least that is what the police are reporting.

We do know that a Range Rover has no problem getting over the top of a bike and rider. I wouldn't be looking for that in a Range Rover ad campaign anytime soon.

We get tons of riders up here in the foothills. Tuolumne and Calaveras county is not known for their sense of humor when it comes to unruly bike riders. I don't see that happening up here.

[the86d]

Blocking traffic should get them plowed though anyway, and limiting Liberty (so they can do tricks? Really?) is what Democrats are known for.

[TheChief]

Mob defense...depends on where among many things...

CS or pepper spray
Fire - Molitive cocktails
Water cannon
Siren
High intensity lights

In the case of the bikers, the only real thing would hav been pepper spray. I keep a 4oz pottle of 5mil OC in both cars (thats about 30 seconds worth). If that had happened to me, once they got through the window I would have just layed on the pepper spray.

I just dont get why he didnt try and backup or start trying to turn around in place...he already showed the willingness to do whatever he could to protect himself and his family so running over more bikes or people shouldnt have been an issue. And even though his tires were flat...it would have still moved.

Can you imagine if he had been armed. The first two guys on the window would be dead. Although very likely so would he and his family once the bikers pulled theirs.

It would not surprise me to hear that he is found dead sometime in the near future as some of those slease balls take vengence for a man protecting himself from those cowards.

I know I'll b contributing to his defense fund.

[the86d]

HE was not arrested, and no charges were filed for HIM, last I read... but the attackers are being sought, one in custody I think it was.

[TheChief]

Also, why did the camera guy post the video??? It was extremely damning to the motorcycle group. If not for that video, it would have been the drivers word versus all the motor cyclists and the headlines would be very different.

Very odd.

[the86d]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Also, why did the camera guy post the video??? It was extremely damning to the motorcycle group. If not for that video, it would have been the drivers word versus all the motor cyclists and the headlines would be very different.

Very odd.

He probably posted it as evidence, not knowing that they were in the wrong, in any way, shape or form... posted vid. due to ignorance.

[BCDavis]

I think the problem with that incident, is that the biker who got run over, was not the biker who the SUV bumped into. He was just one of several guys on bikes in front of the SUV when he decided to take off. I am sure they posted the video, thinking they were documenting a hit and run, and what they considered fair vengeance on the driver for running over their friend. What if a group of schoolkids were crossing the street when the bikers started attacking his car? Is it ok to barrel through other people, because someone is attacking you? It's understandable, for sure. But the guy that got run over, might have had nothing to do with all the other stuff that went down. Guilt by association.

[ireload]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Also, why did the camera guy post the video??? It was extremely damning to the motorcycle group. If not for that video, it would have been the drivers word versus all the motor cyclists and the headlines would be very different.

Very odd.

Goes to show you the level of stupidity of the riders. They are like the "critical mass" cycle riders who gets and even stops car traffic.

[bigguns85]

Originally Posted by BCDavis

I think the problem with that incident, is that the biker who got run over, was not the biker who the SUV bumped into. He was just one of several guys on bikes in front of the SUV when he decided to take off. I am sure they posted the video, thinking they were documenting a hit and run, and what they considered fair vengeance on the driver for running over their friend. What if a group of schoolkids were crossing the street when the bikers started attacking his car? Is it ok to barrel through other people, because someone is attacking you? It's understandable, for sure. But the guy that got run over, might have had nothing to do with all the other stuff that went down. Guilt by association.

It was not guilt by assosiation when you are part of the group that did the crime (i.e. when your in a car with a drive by). I remeber reading an article that said it was a minor scrape but he tryed to stop and work it out but they imediatly started attacking him so he took off. The people were hogging the road in the first place anyways which makes them at fault for not giving room to any other driver. The fact remained that they stayed as a pact and harrased them. Poor guy lived in New York so a gun for self defense is almost non existant. Your school kids argument is wrong because thats a third party involment where as the bike gang was the acting party. In this situation I would just avoid them alltogether if possible but a WROL where they are targeting you for your stuff take out every last one you can while trying to get away and get run flat tires. I would like to see the healm cam for the guy who aproached his vehicle that would be interesting (the cops are probally looking for it also)

[DavidR310]

First, reports say the drive of the suv was in contact with LEO as this was all happening, but they could not get to him in time.

Second, as for pepper spray and other non-lethal defense items, remember these riders had road armor on. Helmets would have prevented effective use of pepper sprays. In one scene a rider was punching the window with his fist, why?....because he had kevlar knuckled gloves on.

Third, the driver had a nice suv with most likely a strong V8 and maybe awd, he should has just started shifting into reverse and drive as needed until cops showed up.

[DavidR310]

Originally Posted by bigguns85

Has anyone though about how to defend against a mob? I saw this video yesterday and was thinking about how to take out mobs besides running them over or shooting them lol

The running over a mob part works....just not when the mob happens to be a rollin motorcycle crew,lol.

[the86d]

After the 1st, or 2nd "POP!" the idiots would stop their Democrat-typical-violence, after their Democrat-typical-traffic-holding-up...

The people that state that this would have ended differently with firearms in a state that it was allowed, don't know someone has to be coming at you with a weapon to be able to legally shoot them. If he were shot, sitting in his car, he could POSSIBLY fend them off until the police arrive, or anyone who shot him in the car would have gotten murder charges period. In the heat of the moment, the helmet WAS a weapon.

[the86d]

http://bearingarms.com/nyc-biker-mob...ways-be-armed/
They called it what it is:

Mob violence.

Domestic terrorism.

Call it what you will, but the uncut footage of the biker gang that repeatedly surrounded and then attacked New York City Internet executive Alexian Lien and his family on the city’s highways and surface streets is an example of the sort of chilling violence that seems to be endemic to a growing violent subculture within our society.

THIS is Jerry Brown, Feinstein, and Obama's ideal world. It looks to me like it is a middle-eastern country's justice for the mobs of indecent human beings.

[KevinB]

From what is coming out the uncut or unedited version of the video is really damning.

Good argument for a hicap auto with multiple mags.

[Vin63]

In his situation, drive and reverse are your means for protection. I would've ran/backed over everyone of those punks if they attacked me and my family for no reason. Knife in a gunfight comes to mind when morons on motorcycles attack people in trucks/SUVs.

[bigguns85]

What happenes when they run with guns? THen you realy need armored car and a good gun. As the article that the86d posted the cops do squat till after the fact. This by the way is common for alot of PD policy for large groups it is crowd controll not threat assesment which is why many of the suprem court cases have gone through saying they dont have to do squat. I argure have a high cap (50-200 round) mag (if legal). If you cant its your choice to live as a fellon to defend yourself or die as a good law abiding citezen.

[BCDavis]

I was just tossing out the alternate viewpoint, because back when I used to ride, I would sometimes join up with a large group of riders. It doesn't mean we are a "gang", or that the entire group is out to kill, maim, or hurt people, like in some cheesy movie.

Honestly, I don't see why the SUV driver didn't just slow down, and let all the bikers go on their way, before anything even happened.
If they were riding like idiots all around him, why stay in the middle of the pack?

My main point, is that if you feel trapped, and in danger, which this guy obviously did, does that give you the right to run over other people? What if the SUV was in the middle of a big pedestrian area, and the only escape route was the sidewalk? In order to avoid the danger from the bikers, would it be ok to drive on the sidewalk, and potentially hit pedestrians? I am simply saying that some of the riders he ran over, may have had nothing to do with the harassment, the accident, or anything else. They may have simply been safely and legally riding their motorcycles, and stopped to see what was happening.

And yes, if you were in a gun-friendly state, being able to pull a gun on the bikers would have been a much more effective way of keeping they away from you, without resorting to plowing into random other people with your car to escape.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by BCDavis

I was just tossing out the alternate viewpoint, because back when I used to ride, I would sometimes join up with a large group of riders. It doesn't mean we are a "gang", or that the entire group is out to kill, maim, or hurt people, like in some cheesy movie.

Lots of bikers are law-abiding. I think the issue is that this group wasn't.

The cops were playing a cat and mouse game with these guys all afternoon before the mob beating went down. They had checkpoints and roadblocks to avoid a repeat of what had happened last year. Motorbikes were pulling reckless stunts through the City, with their license plates removed so they couldn't be identified. There were lots of police reports about these guys BEFORE the accident and mob beating occurred. The cops had already confiscated 55 bikes.

http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/bikers-...r-rams-riders/

This isn't the story of a bunch of weekend motorbike riders who tried to stop a hit and run douchebag in an SUV.

[Vin63]

Originally Posted by BCDavis

I was just tossing out the alternate viewpoint, because back when I used to ride, I would sometimes join up with a large group of riders. It doesn't mean we are a "gang", or that the entire group is out to kill, maim, or hurt people, like in some cheesy movie.

Honestly, I don't see why the SUV driver didn't just slow down, and let all the bikers go on their way, before anything even happened.
If they were riding like idiots all around him, why stay in the middle of the pack?

My main point, is that if you feel trapped, and in danger, which this guy obviously did, does that give you the right to run over other people? What if the SUV was in the middle of a big pedestrian area, and the only escape route was the sidewalk? In order to avoid the danger from the bikers, would it be ok to drive on the sidewalk, and potentially hit pedestrians? I am simply saying that some of the riders he ran over, may have had nothing to do with the harassment, the accident, or anything else. They may have simply been safely and legally riding their motorcycles, and stopped to see what was happening...

He had already slowed down and was surrounded long before, which is how the punk got in front of him and brake checked him. When the others attempted to forcibly enter the vehicle and pulled knives to slash tires, I'm running over everyone of those punks and backing up to finish the job instead of getting myself stuck in traffic up ahead. Also, this group has done this sort of stuff before and members have posted videos of their past terroristic behaviors.

[bigguns85]

I love how the family of the biker who ws run over is saying he is the victum. What a wonderful backwords world where criminals are the victum lol. Its like someone robbing your house and they get hurt by a trap or some "dangerouse condition to the house" and they sue you. What a wonderful world we live in where victums are are fault lol. II would have drove that suv over every one of them that would still pursue me so long as the car is able to move. Then if no gun is allowed its crowbar time or maybe a gun anways as I would rather be in prision then dead lol

[TheChief]

I gotta stop...

Between this thread, and other news sites...seeing the same points rehashed...time to let this one go. I keep running the images through my head and thinking what I would do...just need to let it go.

Ultimately, 12 people are going to decide on this. Based on all the thumbs up on supporting the Land Rover over the motorcyclists...I think we know which way it will go.

I know if I was in his shoes...I would likely have been side swiping and running more of these guys over...to get out of the situation...I certainly would not have stopped like he did at the end where they pulled him out of the truck...I would have been making biker paste at the end. See what I mean....I gotta leave this one alone.

[SteeVP]

Seeing this stuff makes my blood boil. How can you watch something like this and not think of what you would do in that situation? Especially if you have a family. What's worse is I know the people in suv.

[11HE9]

Originally Posted by Vin63

In his situation, drive and reverse are your means for protection. I would've ran/backed over everyone of those punks if they attacked me and my family for no reason. Knife in a gunfight comes to mind when morons on motorcycles attack people in trucks/SUVs.

This ^^^

I admit I don't have all the information on what went down here... but if a pack of bikers start to get stupid (in SHTF,or any other time), I'm going to go through them if I feel my family's safety is threatened.

[adamjay]

I don't think you can compare running over innocent pedestrians to running over one of these thugs who illegally stopped in the middle of the street in order to hold this family while others slashed tires and tried to assault him. F*** that guy!
Driver should never have stopped, when he came to traffic he should have backed over those guys. If I was with my family, and couldnt evade, I would have wiped out all those who were after me until the police arrived. What's the option? Thank God they didn't assault his wife or kids.
I keep thinking oil slick would have been just the thing!