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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #1  
Old 11-23-2007, 10:06 AM
1911man 1911man is offline
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Default AR Barrel length??????

I would was wondering what is the most common barrel length that are used in matches? and what is the farthest most distance that they shoot? the reason why I ask is because I have decided to have my barrel cut, sell, or trade it for an upper that is good for a variety of things such as 200 yard paper punching , maybe using it for competitions in 3 gun events, and for hunting. Basically I am trying to make a DO ALL gun. I was thinking of cutting it to 18" or 16" then putting a jp gas adjustment on it because I want to keep the full length gas tube and a A2 stock. I would like to see pics. to see what the pro's use. I have only seen one, and he was teaching a tactical course with his ar. It was a free floated A2 stocked what looked like a 16" barrel with a jp adjustment in the front. The upper that I have now is a bushmaster 24" fluted 1-9 twist that is not chrome lined. That is the barrel that I want to have cut. I got it because I've read some where that non-chrome lined is a little more accurate. I already have an 16" LMT upper for my tactical stuff, but it is not accurate enough for 200 yards much less 100 yards. I was thinking of going 18" because I have read some where that 18" is the best for the powder burn time in the barrel, In a balistic point of view. JP rifles are generally 18" for all around use but they have a one and 8 twist and I would appreciate all info and pics that you have thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2007, 10:49 AM
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Many people run 18" or 16" barrels. These seem the most popular. Distance of shots depends on the range. In So. Cal 300+ yard shots are quite common. Certain ranges go out to 400+.

I would shoot your 16" for a few 3 gun matches to figure out what you need before you spend your $$$. You'll probably find that with decent ammo your 16" has no problem going out to 300+ as long as you do your part. That probably is the major part of the equation.
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Old 11-23-2007, 1:06 PM
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I shoot a MOA with my 16". out to 300m using a 1.5x6-40mm busnell. load my own .223 with 55gr win.,25gr 2230 powder, 2950FPS
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Old 11-23-2007, 1:30 PM
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Check out the 3 gun technnical questions section on Brian Enos' website.
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Old 11-23-2007, 2:14 PM
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18's and 20's are very common but there are a few 16's that are shot well. Most people stay with the rifle length gas system because it shoots smoother than a carbine system. It basically comes down to what you practice with and are comfortable shooting. No gun or gadget will replace practice.

I'm no pro but I am a top 15 finisher in open (we won't go into my disasterous 25th place foray into tactical at the 2006 3-gun National). Here's my old Olympic lower with a JP trigger, JP barrel and gas system, stainless low mass recoil system on a mil-spec upper. The rail on the bottom is for an Arredondo detachable bi-pod mount, the side one is for bracing on a baracade or wall or for a light in case of a dark house stage. An ACOG TA-11 and an Optima red dot in a custom mount with a hood so it won't get knocked out of zero. Its a bit beat up but if you're worried about your gear looking new you don't shoot as fast as you could. I use the same load as CAT_101 but get just under 3100fps out of this barrel.

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Old 11-23-2007, 4:56 PM
3GunFunShooter 3GunFunShooter is offline
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I read once that some shooters were not making
minor power factor with a 16" barrel, with some ammo. With a 18" it gives you that margin to make minor.
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Old 11-23-2007, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GunFunShooter View Post
I read once that some shooters were not making
minor power factor with a 16" barrel, with some ammo. With a 18" it gives you that margin to make minor.
That's something you should test before shooting a match were they chrono.
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Old 11-23-2007, 8:00 PM
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If you shot a 16" and you were going to a bigger match where they did chrono you would need to check your ammo. If it was a issue you could shoot hotter ammo or a heavier bullet like 62 or 69 grain.
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Old 11-23-2007, 8:54 PM
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Whenever someone wants a dedicated 3gun upper, I usually recommend an 18" barrel with rifle gas system in medium weight profile with some sort of freefloat handguard.
I feel that the rifle gas system is considerably smoother shooting then mid-length and certainly better than a carbine.
I have go as short as 17" on the rifle gas system without trouble.
16" rifle gassed barrels are just looking for trouble, especially with wimpy ammo or in cold weather (not that southern california has cold weather!).
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Old 11-26-2007, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
18's and 20's are very common but there are a few 16's that are shot well. Most people stay with the rifle length gas system because it shoots smoother than a carbine system. It basically comes down to what you practice with and are comfortable shooting. No gun or gadget will replace practice.

I use the same load as CAT_101 but get just under 3100fps out of this barrel.

that extra 2" will get you another 100-150FPS. My 16" and that load just make PF most of the time.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:43 PM
uscbigdawg uscbigdawg is offline
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TMC pretty much summed it up.

I started with a 20" JP back in the late 90's. Still use it occasionally 'cause of it's "unique" color. That and the JP-RE compensator is awesome.

In 2003/2004 just before joining the Army, I took my 3-Gun and more specifically my rifle shooting more seriously and had built an 18" upper from JP/DPMS and Mike Voigt. 18" Oly Ultramatch, SS, 1:8 w/ JP-BC compensator, JP handguard and ran a Sightron 2.5-7x32 SG scope. Got my first top 25 with that rifle, and with the way I poorly shot that weekend at SMM3G, it was in large part to that rifle since it shoots about .25 MOA with my 69gr. SMK handloads.

After my last deployment, I had a 16" carbine built up by Triangle Shooting Sports. Standard carbine gas'ed rifle but with Benny Hill's Rolling Thunder compensator. Easily one of the best on the planet (SJC Titan is in there too). That upper with an ACOG TA01NSN is on my M-4 here now.

The new rifle after this deployment will be built by me and my partner as a flagship rifle for our new company and a custom shop for a popular AR manufacturer. It'll sport a VLTOR MUR upper w/ 16" mid-length, SS, 1:8 barrel from one of our sources, probably a JP handguard (considering swapping to a Briley CF for NO WEIGHT) and probably a SJC Titan compensator. JP-LMOS and Trijicon TR21R (Accu-point) on a Larue SPR-E mount.

On the ammo. I safely shot 55gr. PSP's from Ultramax and made minor out of the 16" carbine. Bottom line is that you should chrono your loads anyways and definitely if there's any doubt.

In the end, barrel length is really a non-issue with regards to velocity. You don't drop an appreciable amount by going down to a 16" vs. an 18" or 20". 100-300 fps isn't enough to matter on what's important and that's bullet performance. If you're riding the razor's edge on power factor then throw another half a grain in and you'll be more than fine. My 69gr. SMK load is somewhere around 25grains (don't quote me. It's Sierra's "most accurate load"...testing just showed it to be in my rifle too). The impulse on the rifle length gas systems are much smoother and easier to "control" with loads. There is some argument to increased reliability related to rifle vs. carbine and when you get into port and chamber pressure curves, it does make some sense. In the end, like TMC said above, practice with what you have and that's worth much more.

Also remember what you're shooting with too. If you're in Open or tactical, is barrel length going to matter? Probably not. If I was shooting Limited, 18" would be the shortest I'd go, since it gives me more real estate for a longer sight radius (although on my Limited rifle, I mount my front sight on the gas block instead of just behind the comp).

Hope that helped.

Rich
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