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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-08-2019, 12:15 PM
bootstrap bootstrap is offline
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Default Trump vs our 2A rights

Very interesting points made in the video below, what are your thoughts?

If you don't bother watching the vid and just think "4D chess", then you're probably the kind of person that should watch it.


Last edited by bootstrap; 06-08-2019 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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He is he best out of a bunch of really awful options. That’s what Americans are left with as far as choosing the next president. With we loose some of our rights. The alternative is to lose most of them way faster....


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Old 06-08-2019, 2:51 PM
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Trump says a lot of stuff just to keep anti-gunners from getting riled up. As long as he keeps appointing Constitutionalist to the bench, judges that will be there supporting the 2nd A long after Trump is out of office, and isn't out there proposing laws for Congress to pass, I really don't take too much of his off the cuff comments about firearms all that seriously.
And seriously, what was the alternative?
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-08-2019, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Trump says a lot of stuff just to keep anti-gunners from getting riled up. As long as he keeps appointing Constitutionalist to the bench, judges that will be there supporting the 2nd A long after Trump is out of office, and isn't out there proposing laws for Congress to pass, I really don't take too much of his off the cuff comments about firearms all that seriously.
And seriously, what was the alternative?


Problem is that some of the stuff he says is being acted on. That’s the real concerns for us


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Old 06-08-2019, 3:47 PM
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Most of these fussbudget chuckleheads have no idea how close we came to losing the entire republic in one fell swoop had Trump not kept The Marxist Beast out of the Oval Office, especially following the America hating Muslim.

Since his election he has made enormous gains in reversing the damage done by Obama. His judicial appointments alone will have positive effects toward liberty for decades. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Defense of our 2A rights is a continuing struggle regardless of who is in the Whitehouse. The struggle doesn't end just because Trump is President.

Rubes like this guy are only interested in self-promotion by way of FUD.
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Old 06-08-2019, 3:49 PM
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Problem is that some of the stuff he says is being acted on. That’s the real concerns for us


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It would be acted on anyways, it's not like Trump is coming up with the idea and pushing it through congress like Obama tried to do or Hillary would have done.
And like I said, what what was the alternative?
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-08-2019, 3:53 PM
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Trump has also signed a bill supporting the shooting sports and making it easier to fund public ranges.
Bringing more people into the "gun culture" is as important.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/05/nss...#axzz5nrq3rtX4
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-08-2019, 5:52 PM
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.... it's President Trump folks. And his SCOTUS appointees are ultimately what's important with respect to 2A issues.
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  #9  
Old 06-08-2019, 8:22 PM
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He is also the Protege of the ditch *****, although I understand his frustrations, his YouTube channel to promote himself. Good bad or indifferent.
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Old 06-08-2019, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bootstrap View Post
Very interesting points made in the video below, what are your thoughts?

If you don't bother watching the vid and just think "4D chess", then you're probably the kind of person that should watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Ibdw19168
I listened to the entire video, & can understand the mans frustration.

He wants to defend 2A Rights and Constitution.
He has become a Single Issue Voter on these issues.
He makes numerous points that I agree with.

But unfortunately he is politically naïve.

He apparently wants to blame Trump for National Reciprocity failure,
even though Trump said he would sign the Bill, it was basically
tripped up by Anti-Trumper Ryan & Mitch (although I do appreciate
how Mitch has rammed thru the lower court appointments):

Hearing Protection Act and National Reciprocity Status Check
The Truth About Guns. JAN 29, 2019
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-status-check/

"As bad as Paul Ryan showed himself to be, Mitch McConnell stabbed us
in the back over and over last session. We had opportunities to pass all
manner of gun rights legislation ranging from the Hearing Protection Act
to National Reciprocity to plenty more. We had the votes to pass them by
a simple majority in the Senate, either in straight up votes or as part of
spending packages. And ol’ Cocaine Mitch sat on them all and refused
to grant a vote."


He makes the claim that from now on, he will not vote for the Lessor
of Two Evils (He voted for Trump to stop Hillary), he will only vote for
people that have a proven track record of upholding the 2A, so he
is Not voting for Trump in 2020 apparently.

But he doesn't identify who that Pro-2A person is, and show how they
have a Viable Chance at actually getting elected. (Hint, they don't)

When you don't win an election, you have NO SEAT at the table when
the Political Sausage is made. That is the End Result of a Purist,
"No Compromise" stance that ignores the current political realities.


I want us to, at the Very Least, have a seat at the Table.


Another problem with this "purist" approach is it ignores the political
Realties we currently live under.

We have Decades of Anti-2A propaganda spewed out by the Leftist
Dominated Mass Media, Hollywood, Education system, and vast majority
of Democrat Politicians, not to mention the Endless Piles Of Cash the
Anti-2A Billionaires like Bloomberg & Soros have dumped in to support
Anti-2A movements and legislation throughout our nation.

This has given rise to a substantial amount of misinformed Voters
who support various Gun Control Infringements, but still believe they
"Support the 2nd Amendment" when asked, and then we have the
Anti-2A Zealots, who won't change their minds even when presented
with actual facts that refute all the Gun Control Propaganda.

This cannot be dismissed from a political perspective,
and yet he Ignores this reality:




Older Poll from 2018:


He also Ignores President Trumps appointment of Pro-2A Gorsuch and
Kavanaugh, and quite possibly a Pro-2A replacement for RBG.

Plus the record breaking pace of Constitutionalists Judges to the lower
courts, with the Notoriously Leftist 9th Circus starting to approach some
semblance of balance.

He also Ignores Donald Trump Jr. being Pro-2A, and supportive of
easing restrictions on Silencers, and guess what, Trump Jr has the
Presidents Ear.

I posted the following on another Thread:

Trump maybe an imperfect Ally in defending the 2A, but he is
currently the only viable candidate that can actually get elected.

Other Pro 2A potential Presidential candidates, like Ted Cruz, for example,
(who I originally supported) are not as likely to be elected as Trump,
and when you consider only one elected President lost his bid in the
primaries for a 2nd Term back in 1857, those of you thinking about a
Trump Alternative just aren't being realistic.

Because getting a Democrat President in 2020 would be an Absolute
Disaster, in more ways than one, compared to Trump.

It is unlikely Trump will carry forward any actions on Suppressor after
he gets back home and "looks into it".

Why ? Well for one thing, his Pro 2A son has his ear, and guess what,
his son supports Suppressors:




Donald Trump Jr. is the new spokesman for suppressors
Hot Air. January 8, 2017
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/01/...r-suppressors/

"The President Elect’s son is making some news this week, this time as a
vocal proponent for the relaxation of regulations on suppressors for shooters."


"Now the gun industry, which for decades has complained about the
restrictions, is pursuing new legislation to make silencers easier to buy,
and a key backer is Donald Trump Jr., an avid hunter and the oldest son
of the president-elect, who campaigned as a friend of the gun industry."



In addition, the NRA also has a seat at Trumps table, which would never
happen under any of the current Democrat Presidential candidates,
although they would allow Bloomberg's Anti-2A groups at the table.

What is of Over Riding Importance is that we continue to have Pro 2A
appoints to SCOTUS and the Lower Courts, which will prime us to take
down these various Infringements that have accumulated over the years
in Progressive Enclaves like California & New York
.

Also, we need to Focus on the Real Enemy, the Anti-2A Democrat Party
and their Mass Media Minions, who stir up the Outrage Mobs to take
advantage of Tragedies so they can force more Gun Control down our
collective throats, and of course, Bloomberg and his Billionaire Buddys
like Soros, who supply Endless Piles of Cash to Prop Up the Gun Control
Movement, which, without their cash infusions, would have shrunk down
to political insignificance by now.

And I would remind everyone that the Future Looks Much Brighter
than what it looked like prior to November 8, 2016:


Survey finds Hillary Clinton has ‘more than 99% chance’
of winning election over Donald Trump

Independent. November 5, 2016
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7399671.html

So those of you currently Unhappy with how things have unfolded...

Just Imagine the Damage Hillary would have done by now.


So as much as I don't think Bump Stocks should be Banned, and
Suppressors and Bump Stocks should be readily available to law abiding
citizens, I am not losing that much sleep over these particular issues
because we are stocking more and more Judges like U.S. District Court
Judge Roger T. Benitez, who gave us Freedom Week, and the future looks
a Lot Better than the Alternative, Democrat Hillary's Gun-Free Nirvana.


Noble
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  #11  
Old 06-08-2019, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
And seriously, what was the alternative?
There wasn't any, but gosh it sure is fun to complain!
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Old 06-08-2019, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Trump has also signed a bill supporting the shooting sports and making it easier to fund public ranges.
Bringing more people into the "gun culture" is as important.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/05/nss...#axzz5nrq3rtX4
It's pretty exciting to see it actually starting to be implemented. I'll be attending a local meeting about the 4 proposed public ranges BLM wants ot build around Phoenix. The artist renditions make them look great. Reality makes me think they will become drug dens (public bathrooms) and meth targets (theft of steel plates).

https://www.blm.gov/press-release/in...205k81TZpwaoZI

https://eplanning.blm.gov/epl-front-...tPageId=185715
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Old 06-09-2019, 8:00 AM
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It's pretty exciting to see it actually starting to be implemented. I'll be attending a local meeting about the 4 proposed public ranges BLM wants ot build around Phoenix. The artist renditions make them look great. Reality makes me think they will become drug dens (public bathrooms) and meth targets (theft of steel plates).

https://www.blm.gov/press-release/in...205k81TZpwaoZI

https://eplanning.blm.gov/epl-front-...tPageId=185715
Why do you think that ?
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Old 06-09-2019, 8:44 AM
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I watched and scanned through this poorly groomed, ill spoken, internet tough guy who rambled on and on showing disrespect for my president.

Good thing this big mouth was on you tube instead of gun culture events where at at least 1 - 15 are wearing Trump shirts, hats,buttons etc.

I am certain he would have been told to shut up and he would have ran like a little big mouth punk with his tail between his legs!

Worst part he offered ZERO solutions. Yeah tough guy Molon Labe ! Wolverines! Blah blah blah !
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:03 PM
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I watched the video. Now I want the 16.38 minutes of my life I wasted on this guy back.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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President Trump was responsible for National Reciprocity tanking? Hopefully he doesn't mean the 1st time it failed because he wasn't in office at the time. And truth be told there are a fair number of gunowners who are lukewarm to the idea of inviting the federal government to occupy the field of CCW issuance. To include what Democrats could do once the federal government's heavy foot is in the door - witness Senator Booker's "national license" scheme recently floated. You can bet that isn't a "shall issue" or constitutional carry issuance.
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Old 06-09-2019, 3:24 PM
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President Trump could have put pressure on Mitch McConnell to put the National Reciprocity bill to a vote.

He could have, but he chose not to.

There's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
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Old 06-09-2019, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
President Trump could have put pressure on Mitch McConnell to put the National Reciprocity bill to a vote.

He could have, but he chose not to.

There's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
So are you claiming that they had 60 Senators willing to bring it to a vote?

Are you aware of how many Senators have to agree to bring closure on a bill and allow a vote?

There's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 06-09-2019 at 3:46 PM..
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Old 06-09-2019, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
President Trump could have put pressure on Mitch McConnell to put the National Reciprocity bill to a vote.

He could have, but he chose not to.

There's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
Yes he could have, and it would have failed 51 to 49 after being torpedoed by McCain and Flake like every thing else Trump tried to do with Congress that year.

McConnell would have had to pick up 11 Democrat votes for anything to pass.

How quickly people try to rewrite History and claim because Republicans had 51 seats in the House Trump could have done something.

But I get it.

Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad

"Blab, blab, blab, I will never vote for anyone who is not 100% 2A shall not Infringe, Blab, blab, blab."

Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad

So basically you are the problem, not part of the solution.
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Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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Old 06-09-2019, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post

How quickly people try to rewrite History and claim because Republicans had 51 seats in the House Trump could have done something.
Isn't it amazing how many people complaining about Trump are either intentionally dishonest or completely ignorant as to how our government works.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-09-2019, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Most of these fussbudget chuckleheads have no idea how close we came to losing the entire republic in one fell swoop had Trump not kept The Marxist Beast out of the Oval Office, especially following the America hating Muslim.

Since his election he has made enormous gains in reversing the damage done by Obama. His judicial appointments alone will have positive effects toward liberty for decades. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Defense of our 2A rights is a continuing struggle regardless of who is in the Whitehouse. The struggle doesn't end just because Trump is President.

Rubes like this guy are only interested in self-promotion by way of FUD.
Reid served in the Marines for Obama as well as a police officer... just saying.
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Old 06-09-2019, 4:31 PM
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Isn't it amazing how many people complaining about Trump are either intentionally dishonest or completely ignorant as to how our government works.
THIS... but they all have a voice and love to hear themselves pontificate.
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Old 06-09-2019, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So are you claiming that they had 60 Senators willing to bring it to a vote?

Are you aware of how many Senators have to agree to bring closure on a bill and allow a vote?

There's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
You know as well as I that if the President had called it out, shown leadership and applied the necessary political pressure by making it a priority, it would have come to a vote.

No one knows how many Senators were willing to bring it to a vote because it was buried by the leadership - undoubtedly to protect RINOS that might be at risk in the mid-terms. Think about the fact that we probably lost the chance at reciprocity just to protect RINOs. That's weak leadership.

In any case - it doesn't matter if they'd vote NO. You make them take that vote and you make them say it on the record. Supposed to be draining the swamp, right? The ones who don't vote the right way don't get to claim they're for the Second Amendment anymore, then they can face someone in the next primary that is the real deal.
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Old 06-09-2019, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Yes he could have, and it would have failed 51 to 49 after being torpedoed by McCain and Flake like every thing else Trump tried to do with Congress that year.

McConnell would have had to pick up 11 Democrat votes for anything to pass.

How quickly people try to rewrite History and claim because Republicans had 51 seats in the House Trump could have done something.
Let's pretend that the Senate hasn't changed inconvenient parliamentary rules to only require a simple majority to get something voted on or passed - like they did with Neil Gorsuch's nomination under McConnel or previously under Harry Reid for other matters in the Senate.

They change the rules when it suits them and when it doesn't, they use these malleable rules to point fingers at the other side and cry obstructionism.

You keep on making excuses for them though.
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Old 06-09-2019, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
You know as well as I that if the President had called it out, shown leadership and applied the necessary political pressure by making it a priority, it would have come to a vote.

No one knows how many Senators were willing to bring it to a vote because it was buried by the leadership - undoubtedly to protect RINOS that might be at risk in the mid-terms. Think about the fact that we probably lost the chance at reciprocity just to protect RINOs. That's weak leadership.

In any case - it doesn't matter if they'd vote NO. You make them take that vote and you make them say it on the record. Supposed to be draining the swamp, right? The ones who don't vote the right way don't get to claim they're for the Second Amendment anymore, then they can face someone in the next primary that is the real deal.
No, I don't know that and neither do you. The simple truth is that your are either intentionally trying to deceive people about Trump's ability to have a vote forced on this issue or you are woefully ignorant as to how the Senate works. Either way, you have been exposed and there's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-09-2019, 6:53 PM
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No, I don't know that and neither do you. The simple truth is that your are either intentionally trying to deceive people about Trump's ability to have a vote forced on this issue or you are woefully ignorant as to how the Senate works. Either way, you have been exposed and there's no political BSing and mental gymnastics around that fact.
What we do know is that he didn't even try. Not even a little bit. As if he doesn't get on the soap box about other matters that have no chance of passing. Odd how he didn't get on the soap box about this one after he was elected, huh?
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Old 06-09-2019, 6:56 PM
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Let's pretend that the Senate hasn't changed inconvenient parliamentary rules to only require a simple majority to get something voted on or passed - like they did with Neil Gorsuch's nomination under McConnel or previously under Harry Reid for other matters in the Senate.

They change the rules when it suits them and when it doesn't, they use these malleable rules to point fingers at the other side and cry obstructionism.

You keep on making excuses for them though.
Big difference between judicial nominations and legislation and not a choice that was made lightly. So basically, you want McConnel to go nuclear on this specific legislation and could care less about the repercussions down the road, enabling the Dems to pass any gun control measure through the senate that they wanted with a simple majority vote and there would be no way to stop it. That's what you want?
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:01 PM
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What we do know is that he didn't even try. Not even a little bit. As if he doesn't get on the soap box about other matters that have no chance of passing. Odd how he didn't get on the soap box about this one after he was elected, huh?
No, we don't know that either. I have no idea what private conversations that he may have had with McConnel or what negotiations occurred. What I do know is that it is foolish to waste political capital on pushing for a vote on a bill that needs Democrat support, knowing that you will never receive it.
So what is your story here? Are you just bashing Trump, or are you really this ignorant as to how this government works?
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-09-2019, 7:04 PM
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Big difference between judicial nominations and legislation and not a choice that was made lightly. So basically, you want McConnel to go nuclear on this specific legislation and could care less about the repercussions down the road, enabling the Dems to pass any gun control measure through the senate that they wanted with a simple majority vote and there would be no way to stop it. That's what you want?
There's nothing stopping the dems from exercising the nuclear option of their own volition and passing gun control legislation either - legislation that with Trump's court appointments could be challenged and picked apart in court. With all his appointments, now would have been the time to take action - pass national reciprocity, repeal the NFA and other previous gun control measures. Get those items out into the public's hands so they become items in common use and fall under the protections granted under Heller.

If you're really interested in the long game - that's the way you've got to do it, otherwise there's no way we're getting some of those laws repealed.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:05 PM
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What we do know is that he didn't even try. Not even a little bit. As if he doesn't get on the soap box about other matters that have no chance of passing. Odd how he didn't get on the soap box about this one after he was elected, huh?
Trump urges Republicans to pass concealed carry reciprocity as standalone bill
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...tandalone-bill

So much for your comments.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:06 PM
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There's nothing stopping the dems from exercising the nuclear option of their own volition and passing gun control legislation either - legislation that with Trump's court appointments could be challenged and picked apart in court. With all his appointments, now would have been the time to take action - pass national reciprocity, repeal the NFA and other previous gun control measures. Get those items out into the public's hands so they become items in common use and fall under the protections granted under Heller.

If you're really interested in the long game - that's the way you've got to do it, otherwise there's no way we're getting some of those laws repealed.
And how is this Trump's fault?
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:09 PM
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No, we don't know that either. I have no idea what private conversations that he may have had with McConnel or what negotiations occurred. What I do know is that it is foolish to waste political capital on pushing for a vote on a bill that needs Democrat support, knowing that you will never receive it.
So what is your story here? Are you just bashing Trump, or are you really this ignorant as to how this government works?
So you're arguing that he hasn't said anything about it in public because he's so good at keeping his opinions and thoughts about public policy to himself? C'mon dude, be real.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:10 PM
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Let's pretend that the Senate hasn't changed inconvenient parliamentary rules to only require a simple majority to get something voted on or passed - like they did with Neil Gorsuch's nomination under McConnel or previously under Harry Reid for other matters in the Senate.

They change the rules when it suits them and when it doesn't, they use these malleable rules to point fingers at the other side and cry obstructionism.

You keep on making excuses for them though.
No I'm not making excuses for them, I'm blaming them. You on the hand are excusing them blaming Trump.

In the mean time they still needed 60 votes to stop a filibuster, but you ignore that too.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:12 PM
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So you're arguing that he hasn't said anything about it in public because he's so good at keeping his opinions and thoughts about public policy to himself? C'mon dude, be real.
No I'm arguing that we don't know what was said in private. What I find interesting is that you seem to be clueless of what he did say in public.
Once again, intentional deceit or wilful ignorance.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-09-2019, 7:13 PM
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Trump urges Republicans to pass concealed carry reciprocity as standalone bill
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...tandalone-bill

So much for your comments.
Yeah I saw that - his comments are BS. Doing what he's saying is a how-to on torpedoing any chance of getting reciprocity. Not surprised you didn't see right through that.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:18 PM
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Yeah I saw that - his comments are BS. Doing what he's saying is a how-to on torpedoing any chance of getting reciprocity. Not surprised you didn't see right through that.
Well, you have now shown that you are simply Trump bashing using intentional deceit. First you claim that he didn't say anything, then when it's pointed out that he did, he intentionally said something to torpedo the bill passing. Pointing out that the bill has a better chance of passing as a stand alone bill is now torpedoing it? You're going to hurt yourself with all that twisting and turning.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-09-2019, 7:20 PM
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No I'm not making excuses for them, I'm blaming them. You on the hand are excusing them blaming Trump.

In the mean time they still needed 60 votes to stop a filibuster, but you ignore that too.
Oh I'm not saying it's only Trump's fault - I'd say that both him and McConnell share most of the blame though. They're the leaders.

The filibuster can be done away with, and it should be done away with as I argued previously. Get rid of the filibuster, repeal the NFA and other gun control measures so that NFA items are readily available to the public. Millions upon millions of units would be sold, putting them into common use and under the protection of Heller. If the Dems take control of government and want to pass gun control measures, they'll have to contend with Trump's judicial nominees which would be the best way to get some court precedent and firmly establish 2A protections as case law.

It's the only way to make it happen - playing the wait and see game is what got us where we are now.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:25 PM
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Well, you have now shown that you are simply Trump bashing using intentional deceit. First you claim that he didn't say anything, then when it's pointed out that he did, he intentionally said something to torpedo the bill passing. Pointing out that the bill has a better chance of passing as a stand alone bill is now torpedoing it? You're going to hurt yourself with all that twisting and turning.
His comments are not even referring to the House CCW Bill which passed in December 2017. Show me where he said he wanted to see the House CCW Bill voted on in the Senate.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:27 PM
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Oh I'm not saying it's only Trump's fault - I'd say that both him and McConnell share most of the blame though. They're the leaders.

The filibuster can be done away with, and it should be done away with as I argued previously. Get rid of the filibuster, repeal the NFA and other gun control measures so that NFA items are readily available to the public. Millions upon millions of units would be sold, putting them into common use and under the protection of Heller. If the Dems take control of government and want to pass gun control measures, they'll have to contend with Trump's judicial nominees which would be the best way to get some court precedent and firmly establish 2A protections as case law.

It's the only way to make it happen - playing the wait and see game is what got us where we are now.
I see, so your premise is Trump and McConnell should have changed all the existing rules and done whatever they wanted to and since they didn't they failed you.

Got it.

If you really wanted any of this

Quote:
The filibuster can be done away with, and it should be done away with as I argued previously. Get rid of the filibuster, repeal the NFA and other gun control measures so that NFA items are readily available to the public. Millions upon millions of units would be sold, putting them into common use and under the protection of Heller.
to have a chance of happening you would be working with us to deliver Trump a super majority in both houses in 2020.

Instead you are trolling on the internet and bashing Trump which shows your true motives.
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Old 06-09-2019, 7:31 PM
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His comments are not even referring to the House CCW Bill which passed in December 2017. Show me where he said he wanted to see the House CCW Bill voted on in the Senate.
What in the world are you mumbling about now?
At this point, you're not even a decent
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 06-09-2019 at 7:38 PM..
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