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Technology and Internet Emerging and current tech related issues. Internet, DRM, IP, and other technology related discussions.

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  #1  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:00 AM
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Default New Internet WIFI ideas- Old School or Mesh

It looks like my 2 year old Nighthawk 1750 is failing....

I am looking for suggestions...

Friends boast about the new Mesh technology.

This system is on sale at Costco for $299

https://www.costco.com/NETGEAR-Orbi-...100483036.html

NETGEAR Orbi Whole Home Mesh WiFi System, with Advanced Cyber Threat Protection, 3-pack
RBK53S-100NAS

It is an overkill for my place...

For $150- costco has these


https://www.costco.com/TP-Link-Arche...100418449.html
Model ARCHER C4000
Features:
Tri-Band Wi-Fi (1625+1625+750 Mbps)
1.8 Ghz Quad-Core 64 Bit CPU
Parental Control Features
Multi-User MIMO Technology
Wi-Fi RangeBoost, Built-in VPN


or
https://www.costco.com/NETGEAR-Night...100484415.html

NETGEAR Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Tri-Band WiFi Router
R7960P-100NAS
Features:
WiFi Coverage Throughout Very Large Homes
Fast WiFi up to 3.5 Gbps for Gaming, Streaming, and More
5 Gigabit Ethernet Ports for Your Connected Devices
Circle with Disney Smart Parental Controls
Automatically Updates Firmware for Latest Network Security




Am I better off going with a Mesh? typical home user - email - netflix- you tube-
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2019, 3:50 PM
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My house sucks up wifi big time. I couldn't get Blink cameras to work at my front door even using repeaters. About a year ago I bought the TP link mesh setup. Now my house doesn't have any dead spots. Mesh is the only way I will go from now on.
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:22 PM
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I prefer cable runs to remote parts of the house whenever possible, each terminating at an old router acting as a wifi access point and a wired switch. That way nothing interferes are each room (and the garage) having a very strong signal and without repeater loss. If you watch for sales you can still find used T-Mobile/Asus AC1900 routers for ~$50 from time to time.

That said, I am intrigued enough by the Orbi AC3000 system that I'd consider giving it a try if I lived somewhere where cabling was out of the question and there were no wifi shadows. The placement of each station will, however, be critical if you want maximum performance. I'd plan on surveying the house looking for locations with maximum signal strength yet are close enough to service everywhere you need service.
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2019, 7:14 PM
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mesh user here. i did a wireless bridge one time but performance was poor. then again, this was 802.11g with dd-wrt linksys wrt routers.

i had an asus rt-n56u that sufficed but still wasn't enough. but i did wire for devices that were ethernet capable where i can.

i didn't get a chance to play with something similar below which i think Sholling is describing. so i did the orbi equipment instead form costco also. no regrets.

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Old 05-26-2019, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high_revs View Post
i didn't get a chance to play with something similar below which i think Sholling is describing.
Nope not close. Instead of a wifi connection to routers in bridge mode and then wired to devices, I ran cables to my family room, master bedroom, and garage and setup extra routers as access points using the same ID. Pretty much the same way that store provides wifi. Mine is a less fancy version of the network diagram below where spare routers are used as both 4 port switches and wifi access points. My gaming systems, TVs, and set top boxes are all on the wired network. Laptops, phone, and tablets are on wifi.

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Last edited by sholling; 05-26-2019 at 8:20 PM..
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2019, 8:40 PM
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If your old router did provided enough coverage for your house, I would go with the Netgear Nighthawk X6S. It is half the price of the mesh network product while offering higher speed wifi connection.
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2019, 5:18 PM
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Mesh wifi systems are good for convenience and ease of coverage. The main problem I have with pure wifi mesh is total system throughput suffers due to shared bandwidth between all connected devices, including the APs. This can be mostly mitigated by purchasing a system with a dedicated backhaul channel. It's still not as solid and speedy overall as an ethernet backhaul, but it's a good compromise.

A majority of homes and users will do fine with the adequate performance of a standard wifi mesh system, but if you truly care about maximizing throughput, look carefully at the details of the system you're looking to purchase and opt for a dedicated backhaul, or consider an ethernet backhaul anyway.

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  #8  
Old 05-29-2019, 2:56 AM
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Have you tried centering your router in the house, and aiming the "sides" of directional antennas where you want signal, and keeping the router away from metal?

Alternatively, you COULD drop 2 routers, daisy-chained (double latency as you are hoping, then skipping), or even running one w/out DHCP as an AP on different channels, but it could be you are on the same saturated channel as neighbors...

Have you used a WiFi analyzer on your phone (I don't know if iPhruity devices can do this) to see the noise and signal strength from neighbors on local channels yet?
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Last edited by the86d; 05-29-2019 at 3:26 AM..
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2019, 4:58 PM
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Default WAC720

Old school

Netgear WAC720

Put it in a central spot high up and POE powered.
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  #10  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:09 PM
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I went old school too. Bought a TP-Link RE400 range extender and made a huge difference.
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:16 PM
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Mesh. I went Orbi. Only regret is that I waited so long to switch. Architecture is not a true mesh though. This system rocks. I get same speed no matter if someone is streaming movies or anything else. It has dedicated backhaul too, awesome design from what I've witnessed. Worth every penny I paid for it
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Old 05-30-2019, 3:20 PM
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What type of download / upload speeds do you get with these setups?

Is a wired connection faster than wifi?
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:23 PM
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how big is your house? is it an open concept single floor or multi level?

mesh is pretty much always better outside of an 2br apartment.

i have the orbi rkb50 which is the ac3000. i currently have 4 satellites and the main unit. i dont remember the last time i didnt have a signal around my house or in my backyard.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitlow View Post
What type of download / upload speeds do you get with these setups?

Is a wired connection faster than wifi?
I've only been limited speed wise, by the provider.
I get 400Mbps DL on my phone all day long.

Yes, it is.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitlow View Post
What type of download / upload speeds do you get with these setups?

Is a wired connection faster than wifi?
these are ac3000 devices, so 3 Gbps which is much faster than your internet connection.

the only time you may see an issue is with local streaming of 4k video. even then, 4k video is like 30 Mbps so you would need to be doing a lot of stuff to soak up 3 Gbps combined wifi speeds.
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2019, 3:34 PM
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I went mesh and it helped cover all 3 floors of the house and all the cameras
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2019, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitlow View Post
What type of download / upload speeds do you get with these setups?

Is a wired connection faster than wifi?
Yes, a wired gigabit connection is definitely faster than a vast majority of 802.11ac connections. The explanation for the exceptions to this is complicated and I won't go into the gory details here. With a typical gigabit Ethernet link, you only lose about 10% throughput to TCP overhead, so your realized throughput is normally about 900 Mbps, provided there are no other network bottlenecks, so you'll see those transfer speeds consistently.

The wireless 802.11ac advertised speeds are absolute maximums and theoretical, which in short means you'll never see those speeds. The real world throughput for AC devices is nowhere near the advertised speeds. It's typically 50% of that at best, often even lower, but entirely depends on the AP and client NIC configuration, i.e. antenna config, MIMO support, etc.

As an example, I have a gigabit fiber Internet connection at home, an AP with an advertised single channel AC speed of 1733 Mbps, a MacBook Pro with (I believe) a 3x3 NIC, and this is my actual throughput running a speed test directly to my ISP:



As you can see, the actual speed is much less than even my Internet connection, which otherwise would be the bottleneck, but in this case the WiFi connection is the bottleneck. If I run a speed test from my Ethernet connected desktop, I get about 900 Mbps both ways, fully saturating the pipe. I get the same throughput between all gigabit Ethernet connected devices.

The primary use case for WiFi is convenience, not speed, or security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYT View Post
these are ac3000 devices, so 3 Gbps which is much faster than your internet connection.
That is 3 Gbps of maximum theoretical throughput spread across 3 combined channels, NOT a 3 Gbps connection. The RBK50 has one 5 Ghz 160 MHz wide channel operating at 1733 Mbps, one 5 Ghz 80 MHz wide channel operating at 866 Mbps, and one 2.4 GHz channel operating at 400 Mbps. The AC3000 designation is marketing hype. Also, since the RBK50 has a dedicated backhaul channel, a good chunk of that advertised throughout is not even available to your endpoints as it's reserved for AP to AP communication.

At any given time your device is only connected to one of those three channels, thus the maximum speed available at any given time is the theoretical 1733 Mbps, which again as I stated above, you won't realize anywhere near that throughput in real performance. WiFi has a heavy burden of limiting factors such as environmental interference in many forms. Client-to-client throughput is likely in the same neighborhood as I posted above.

The exception to this is if you have multiple wireless NICs in your device (highly unlikely) and are able to bond and load balance them, in which case you can actually make use of more than one channel at once, which would give you more aggregate throughput. Same concept as a port channel on an Ethernet switch.

Long story short, your "AC3000" device can be faster than some Internet connections, like 500 Mbps and below, but as a blanket statement is completely untrue.

Last edited by MrFancyPants; 06-01-2019 at 10:09 AM..
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