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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 04-24-2019, 4:33 PM
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readysetgo readysetgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighCapAssaultOpinionator View Post
How do we continue to Grow the NRA?

Your premise is invalid.
Alright genius. 80 million "gun owners" aren't engaged because "orange NRA man bad?"

Your magic pill "other org" is facing the same problem i.e. non-participation.

Nice try though.

(pro-tip, next time you come back from a ban with a new username, try to be more subtle, you may last a little longer)
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  #82  
Old 04-24-2019, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
After prop 63 I'm not interested in the NRA

$50 for a business card and a chinese bag, hat, knife or other trinket. But wait, theres more... buy raffle tickets to win a truck and atv and boat and 17 guns- 9 of them cant come to CA though

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...ine_Ban_(2016)

Scroll down about halfway to the campaign finance section.

The anti's out spent us 4.5 million to 1.1 million to beat us 60/40 at the ballot
1.06M of the 1.1M came from cpra and grassroots efforts.
$95,000 came from the NRA.

Not even 100k in a 5 million dollar fight, yet the NRA can dump 55 million on a presidential campaign?
Emphasis mine.

Well, There's Your Problem....

You don't know how to set priorities and look at the Bigger Picture.

Which was More Important to saving the 2nd Amendment ?

More Gun Control in Anti-Gun California, or the 2016 Elections ?

Since your unable to see the Bigger Picture, allow me to Explain
it to you. Getting Trump Elected, which has led to Pro 2A Justices
being appointed instead of several Ginsburg Clones, very likely
save the 2nd Amendment from Complete Annihilation under the
Democrats & Hillary.

Your Welcome.

And apparently I need to Explain California to you:



Blaming the NRA,

rather than the REAL ENEMY, ANTI-2A DEMOCRATS,

is just Idiotic, and WRONG.

And btw, FREEDOM WEEK was brought to you by the
NRA & CRPA as well. Your Welcome, Again.

The NRA Spends more in California than it takes in, FYI.

Those aren't my words, those are from C.D. “Chuck” Michel.
Perhaps you've heard of him, but judging from your posts, probably not.

If you want your Rights restored in California, your Best Bet is STILL:
  • Support NRA / NRA-ILA & CRPA.
  • Support President Trump.
  • Support Republican Party.


Noble
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  #83  
Old 04-24-2019, 5:15 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighCapAssaultOpinionator View Post
How do we continue to Grow the NRA?

Your premise is invalid. The goal should be to increase gun awareness/knowledge, the number of owners, and to encourage and expand gun freedom- by further protections and getting unconstitutional restrictions properly invalidated. To those defending the NRA with bumpstucks-- NO, they did not oppose regulation. They actually specifically supported regulating bumpstucks. And guess what that got us? Stop defending that corrupt and worthless organization. Screw the NRA.

To save a long(er) rant

1. Screw the NRA. The NRA is a shady organization that only benefits a few people who are squeezing money out of people who like freedom, by way of falsely purporting to support the Second Amendment. The longer the NRA exists, the more freedom will be lost. The organization needs to just stop existing. They have done a lot to assist legislators to restrict the Second Amendment for many years. Every dollar that goes to the NRA (read: the pockets of a few lying millionaires who don't actually give a crap about the 2ND), is a dollar that doesn't go to actual gun rights groups such as the GOA. IMHO, every dollar the NRA gets is effectively a dollar against the Second Amendment. Screw the NRA.

2. Join and/or support actual Second Amendment groups, such as the GOA, FPC, LEGIO, and others. Screw the NRA.

3. Screw the NRA.

4. If the NRA would like to get back into the good graces of Second Amendment supporters, there are a few things they have to do before hand.
--a. fire the corrupt leaders, and take measures to prevent future corruption.
--b. STOP supporting new regulations!
--c. Stop the waste (the organization is a financial nightmare)
--d. Fight to repeal/overturn/withdraw the GCA, the NFA, the Hughes Amendment, the bumpstock ban, and similar legal issues.
--e. Fight to free CA and other non-free states.
--f. After all that, then maybe I can reconsider. All that seems unlikely, but I'm all for them if they manage to pull it off. Until then...

Screw the NRA.
One More Time.

The NRA DID NOT SUPPORT A BAN
ON BUMPSTOCKS:

What You Need To Know About The NRA’s
Actual Position On The Bump Stock Ban

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1&postcount=60

And, you just insulted 6 Million NRA Gun Owners,
and the estimated 14 Million who support the NRA:


Pew Poll:
14 Million Americans Identify As NRA Members

The Truth About Guns. JUL 14, 2018
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...s-nra-members/
Quote:
The actual number of people who identify as NRA members is likely
even higher
. The poll excludes people who did not identify themselves
as gun owners. Gun owners are often unwilling to tell people they have
guns. Politically aware gun owners, such as NRA members, are likely to
be much more sensitive about admitting gun ownership to someone on
the phone. The poll shows some evidence of this.
So Good Job on alienating all those Millions of Gun Owners.

And since your insult applies to me as a Lifetime / NRA Benefactor
member, I return the same sentiment to you as well.

If you ANTI-NRA Ideologues spent half as much time Going After
the Real Enemy, Anti-2A DEMOCRATS, maybe we could actually
start reversing the Tidal Wave of Gun Control currently washing
over California.



Noble
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  #84  
Old 04-24-2019, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Alright genius. 80 million "gun owners" aren't engaged because "orange NRA man bad?"

Your magic pill "other org" is facing the same problem i.e. non-participation.

Nice try though.

(pro-tip, next time you come back from a ban with a new username, try to be more subtle, you may last a little longer)
You know, if those "80 million" gunowners would do something other than b*tch and moan about NRA or SAF or GOA and "orange man" and get organized maybe they'd accomplish something. Then again, maybe they'd fail. And that's really the crux of the matter. It's so easy to criticize, write "NRA sucks" or GOA, etc. But it takes a bit of work to accomplish something and who knows, they may fall on their asses or be treated to a chorus of "you suck" while they're working hard at getting something done.

I'm speaking hypothetically of course. It will never happen -
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  #85  
Old 04-24-2019, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Emphasis mine.

Well, There's Your Problem....

You don't know how to set priorities and look at the Bigger Picture.

Which was More Important to saving the 2nd Amendment ?

More Gun Control in Anti-Gun California, or the 2016 Elections ?


Noble
At the risk of betraying my non-CA roots and retirement plans, I would have opposed NRA spending $95K in CA on Prop 63, because it was a waste of money. Why should 5% spend $$$ to save the 95% who don't care? And there's a political price to be paid when one latches on to a losing cause. Recall Newsom's "I beat the NRA" adverts in the general election.

And quite frankly there are a lot of CA gunowners that just don't get it. They think it's OK to not vote, to vote for an anti-gun Democrat because of other issues or because a Republican isn't quite to their liking. To not join a pro-gun organization. CA gunowners as a group are sometimes a bit too "nuanced" for their own good.

I bounce around other forums and the New Yorker piece got a few posts, pretty much no support, went on for about a page. Quite a comparison to here.

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-24-2019 at 5:33 PM..
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  #86  
Old 04-24-2019, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
At the risk of betraying my non-CA roots and retirement plans, I would have opposed NRA spending $95K in CA on Prop 63 because it was a waste of money. And there's a political price to be paid when one latches on to a losing cause. Recall Newsom's "I beat the NRA" adverts in the general election.

And quite frankly there are a lot of CA gunowners that just don't get it. They think it's OK to not vote, to vote for an anti-gun Democrat because of other issues or because a Republican isn't quite to their liking. To not join a pro-gun organization. CA gunowners as a group are sometimes a bit too "nuanced" for their own good.

I bounce around other forums and the New Yorker piece got a few posts, pretty much no support, went on for about a page. Quite a comparison to here. -
Well, Bloomberg appears to be getting a return on his Anti-NRA
$50+ Million Dollar Initial Investment, which is probably well over
a 100+ Million Dollars by now.

Bloomberg Thanks All the People supporting his Anti-NRA Agenda.




And Can You Guess What Bloomberg is planning to
Try & Shove Down our Throats if he gets all the
Useful Idiots to help him Destroy the NRA ?

Hint:

The New Bill of Rights starts with...

#1. Freedom of Speech.
#3. No Quartering of Soldiers in private homes.



Noble
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  #87  
Old 04-24-2019, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
IF you buy a firearm, my guess is you support the 2A making your argument moot.
YET, the government forces you to pay for a membership in the form of a FSC. And a fee for the DROS that is nothing but a National Registration.

OP asked "How to increase NRA membership". I gave a suggestion.
Being Pro 2A doesn't equal being pro NRA. Many don't like how the organization have evolved over the last couple of decades and feel that members are being exploited to support the large mfg's. When you make the claim that everybody who believes in a form of liberty has to join a particular brand, club, or creed, you invalidate said liberty.

A "certification" from the state, is not the same as manditory organizational membership (beyond citizenship). Do you consider having a drivers license a membership to club DMV? Keep your apples and oranges in their own baskets.

If they are going to increase their membership, maybe they should move away from the fear campaigns that don't seem to be engaging the tens of millions of non-member gun owners today... For starters that 80m, how many of them only own shotguns, bolt action/rimfire rifles? If their perception of the NRA today is that they are the champion of the EBR, it can't be assumed that they would care to join. Likewise, others may disagree with the premise that they have to literally buy into keeping a consitutional right...
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  #88  
Old 04-24-2019, 8:53 PM
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AragornElessar86 AragornElessar86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
There are all sorts of approaches that could work - nothing wrong with putting out ideas, so long as there's no sensitivity about having them tweaked or critiqued. A basic membership is OK, down side may be that offering basic could cannibalize folks who would have joined fully. Also, the MDA folks would no doubt pounce on "NRA is desperate, they're giving away memberships" and that would lessen the big numbers impact. Finally, do we want NRA chock full of folks who may be OK with AW bans, mag capacity bans, etc?

None of what I wrote is a reason to reject the idea, just to refine and maybe land on something else or a better version of the initial proposal.
I'm just trying to spitball on the original topic.

That's a point I hadn't thought about RE: cannibalizing full members.

I think the issue of the NRA being full of compromisers/pseudo 2Aers is there whether the membership is free or paid, if the idea is getting all gunowners to be members.

To respond to the other person who commented on this idea, the free members wouldn't have voting or other rights in the NRA, so the issue of watering down the leadership by MDA/Everytown/whatever voting in antis is moot.
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  #89  
Old 04-24-2019, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AragornElessar86 View Post
I'm just trying to spitball on the original topic.

That's a point I hadn't thought about RE: cannibalizing full members.

I think the issue of the NRA being full of compromisers/pseudo 2Aers is there whether the membership is free or paid, if the idea is getting all gunowners to be members.

To respond to the other person who commented on this idea, the free members wouldn't have voting or other rights in the NRA, so the issue of watering down the leadership by MDA/Everytown/whatever voting in antis is moot.

Well, the NRA does have Associate Memberships for a
Measly $10 bucks per Year:

https://joinnra.nra.org/join/Associate.aspx



That comes out to about Two & Half Cents per Day...

Maybe start with a Free One Month Trial that rolls over to a Associate
or Regular membership. That might get some people interested.


Noble
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  #90  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Bring that through to conclusion.

Code:
Result	Votes	Percentage
Approved Yes	8,663,159	63.08%
No	5,070,772	36.92%
You're assuming correlation = causation. That if we would have just outspent Prop 63 we would have changed the outcome.

Strange because knowing CA, I'm pretty sure we could have spent 3 x the opposition and still lost, then people would be complaining they're wasting money on futile efforts.

Also, you're putting the cart before the horse...I'll give them money after they spend money.
..........................
This is California we're talking about. The NRA could have spent 10 BILLION dollars here and STILL Prop 63 would have won.
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  #91  
Old 04-25-2019, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
One More Time.

If you ANTI-NRA Ideologues spent half as much time Going After
the Real Enemy, Anti-2A DEMOCRATS, maybe we could actually
start reversing the Tidal Wave of Gun Control currently washing
over California.



Noble
The NRA's biggest enemies are the NRA Leadership and BOD for allowing them to use the NRA for their own piggy bank.
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  #92  
Old 04-25-2019, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
One More Time.

The NRA DID NOT SUPPORT A BAN
ON BUMPSTOCKS:

What You Need To Know About The NRA’s
Actual Position On The Bump Stock Ban

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1&postcount=60

And, you just insulted 6 Million NRA Gun Owners,
and the estimated 14 Million who support the NRA:


Pew Poll:
14 Million Americans Identify As NRA Members

The Truth About Guns. JUL 14, 2018
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...s-nra-members/


So Good Job on alienating all those Millions of Gun Owners.

And since your insult applies to me as a Lifetime / NRA Benefactor
member, I return the same sentiment to you as well.

If you ANTI-NRA Ideologues spent half as much time Going After
the Real Enemy, Anti-2A DEMOCRATS, maybe we could actually
start reversing the Tidal Wave of Gun Control currently washing
over California.



Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by YubaRiver View Post
Is it true that Wayne gets his $1.4 million a year even in retirement?

Do some googling, the answer is Yes apparently.
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  #93  
Old 04-25-2019, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankm View Post
I'd sign up again if they wouldn't call me constantly and send me mail spam.
If only there was a way to opt out of those.

I get more spam email from the Calguns foundation than any other group.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #94  
Old 04-25-2019, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
The NRA's biggest enemies are the NRA Leadership and BOD for allowing them to use the NRA for their own piggy bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Do some googling, the answer is Yes apparently.
Lol.

And yet with all these alleged defects, the NRA still managed to save
the 2A with the election of Trump, and with that, give us big wins with
2x Pro-2A SCOTUS appointments, with a 3rd very likely soon,
and a plethora of NRA Pro 2A lawsuits ready to start restoring 2A
Rights to suffering Gun Owners in Liberal Enclaves such as California
& New York.

Including the NRA/CRPA lawsuit that brought us "Freedom Week"

Your Welcome.

Since you don't actually have any viable response, your Anti-NRA
opinions are worth exactly as much effort as you've put into them:
Exactly Nothing.

Nothing has changed in regards to best action to take to restore
2A Rights.

Support:
  • NRA / NRA-ILA / CRPA
  • President Trump
  • Republican Party
That still remains the most viable option going into the 2020 Elections.

Which is why Bloomberg is cranking up the Anti NRA Propaganda from
his assorted Anti-2A Minions.

If there is any actual malfeasance proven within the NRA, just like
any other large organization, it will be dealt with one way or another,
but Due Process, and the Presumption of Innocence are still
concepts that we follow in this country, despite what the Far Left
Democrats would have you believe with their actions regarding the
Brett Kavanaugh hearings.


Noble
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  #95  
Old 04-26-2019, 9:40 AM
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Reports are now coming out that at a meeting last night with NRA Board Members & Fundraisers EVP Wayne La Pierre was asked to resign. Meeting became heated and La Pierre stormed out after refusing to resign. After the meeting he sent letter to those at the meeting a fiery response again stating he will not resign.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...s-resignation/

To the doubters and apologists, those in law enforcement like to say, "I may not be a detective, but at cop school they told me this is what is called a clue."

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 04-26-2019 at 9:43 AM..
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  #96  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
One More Time.

The NRA DID NOT SUPPORT A BAN
ON BUMPSTOCKS:
I never said it did. The NRA's 'middle-of-the-road' approach did (IMO) directly contribute to the ban. But that's my opinion, and you can disagree. It doesn't make you or me "wrong". We just disagree is all. But I don't think that is the real issue...

What it really boils down to is that there are changing opinions about guns among gun owners, esp in the US. The 'traditional' values (primarily protect shotguns, bolt guns, and antiquated/obsolete firearms) are becoming less and less common. Gun owners of today are becoming more aware of and in desire of more modern rifles, among other interests. We want restrictions and regulations regarding automatic weapons, silencers, magazines, SBR's/SBS's, registries, cosmetic and carry bans, as well as other laws removed.

That is the stance of modern gun owners. While the NRA does protect the more "traditional" equipment and activities ('Elmer Fudd' stuff), and has done important work in protecting them, it simply no longer represents contemporary opinions of gun owners. Many of the restrictions we want removed were written with the assistance and good graces of the NRA.

So, the NRA is obsolete in its current form. They need to get rid of the Fudd's, fix the corruption and efficiency issues (grossly overpaid executives, etc), and start representing their actual current constituency-- and not that of 50 years ago. The NRA has simply failed to modernize with their target audience and the current world. They need to reevaluate their stances and get back on track. I strongly suspect that the NRA is too far gone to be saved, but I do wish them the best in trying. I would gladly welcome and support a reformed and functional NRA. Until then, I'm not going to waste my money tossing it into the incinerator. There are simply far better options right now.
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  #97  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Hint:

The New Bill of Rights starts with...

#1. Freedom of Speech.
#3. No Quartering of Soldiers in private homes.

Bill of rights? What bill of right?
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  #98  
Old 04-26-2019, 3:58 PM
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Thing are getting spicy at NRAAM.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nras-wa..._copyURL_share
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  #99  
Old 04-26-2019, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
I've provided a link to LaPierre's actual letter - Here.
That is the story he used when Neal Knox wanted him removed from EVP position when Wayne refused to terminate the Ackerman-McQueen contract...which was somewhere around $6 million or so in 1997. This time it is likely true, but now it is his former buddies looking to oust him.

My personal opinion, whatever works. I hope Wayne & his former cronies fight like the Commies & Nazis at Stalingrad. For the sake of the NRA and our future, we should hope both sides destroy each other.
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  #100  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:10 PM
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The NRA, as mentioned by others, has been making progress. They have mostly been small baby steps IMO. However, they seem to be getting with the program with the following move (linked below). Perhaps things are starting to change for the better at the NRA. Maybe we will eventually be able to import foreign sporting rifles again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48076262

Last edited by HighCapAssaultOpinionator; 04-27-2019 at 12:18 PM..
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  #101  
Old 05-26-2019, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Lol.

And yet with all these [B]alleged defects

If there is any actual malfeasance proven within the NRA, just like
any other large organization, it will be dealt with one way or another,
but Due Process, and the Presumption of Innocence are still
concepts that we follow in this country, despite what the Far Left
Democrats would have you believe with their actions regarding the
Brett Kavanaugh hearings.


Noble
Aw geez, are you still calling NRA's malfeasance "alleged"?
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  #102  
Old 05-27-2019, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Lol.

And yet with all these alleged defects, the NRA still managed to save
the 2A with the election of Trump, and with that, give us big wins with
2x Pro-2A SCOTUS appointments, with a 3rd very likely soon,
and a plethora of NRA Pro 2A lawsuits ready to start restoring 2A
Rights to suffering Gun Owners in Liberal Enclaves such as California
& New York.

Including the NRA/CRPA lawsuit that brought us "Freedom Week"

Your Welcome.

Since you don't actually have any viable response, your Anti-NRA
opinions are worth exactly as much effort as you've put into them:
Exactly Nothing.

Nothing has changed in regards to best action to take to restore
2A Rights.

Support:
  • NRA / NRA-ILA / CRPA
  • President Trump
  • Republican Party
That still remains the most viable option going into the 2020 Elections.

Which is why Bloomberg is cranking up the Anti NRA Propaganda from
his assorted Anti-2A Minions.

If there is any actual malfeasance proven within the NRA, just like
any other large organization, it will be dealt with one way or another,
but Due Process, and the Presumption of Innocence are still
concepts that we follow in this country, despite what the Far Left
Democrats would have you believe with their actions regarding the
Brett Kavanaugh hearings.


Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Aw geez, are you still calling NRA's malfeasance "alleged"?
Yes.

Because that’s what you call it when nothing has yet been proven in a
Court of Law, where ALL the details and facts are presented from all
sides to determine the Truth in the Matter.


The Outrage Mob, aka Mob Rule / Court of Ill-Informed Public Opinion,
Is for Dullards who don’t believe in Due Process, and the concept of
Innocent until Proven Guilty, like what the Democrats did to Judge Kavanaugh,
which, judging from your comment, you apparently approved of.


Noble
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  #103  
Old 05-27-2019, 2:30 AM
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The NRA like other orgs has its share of worts. Fact is without the NRA Hillary would now be our president...

How much would that suck?
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  #104  
Old 05-27-2019, 7:43 AM
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I know one Florida shooting range requires NRA membership.
It might be a good idea to talk with range owners and see if this can be done.

How about calgunns making NRA membership mandatory ? sure would thin out lots of people I have stopped reading.
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  #105  
Old 05-27-2019, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Yes.

Because that’s what you call it when nothing has yet been proven in a
Court of Law, where ALL the details and facts are presented from all
sides to determine the Truth in the Matter.


The Outrage Mob, aka Mob Rule / Court of Ill-Informed Public Opinion,
Is for Dullards who don’t believe in Due Process, and the concept of
Innocent until Proven Guilty, like what the Democrats did to Judge Kavanaugh,
which, judging from your comment, you apparently approved of.


Noble
I can't get behind your crazy thinking. You want to compare "evidence"? In the case of Cavanagh, there was no evidence besides one woman's willingness to make claims.

But with the NRA, there is plenty of actual evidence. You go ahead and remain willfully blind, I'm done talking to you. I got to figure out how this ignore button works
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  #106  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:08 AM
Dano3467 Dano3467 is offline
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NRA for life.. yeah it's that important !
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  #107  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dano3467 View Post
NRA for life.. yeah it's that important !
You are a life member of the NRA? Good for you. Your dues are helping to pay for Wayne's lavish lifestyle.
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  #108  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:31 AM
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The NRA needs more front and center woman leadership. That will soften the image and attract more women.

Wayne has to go, he's scary.
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  #109  
Old 05-27-2019, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Butt first, they need to get rid of the 86 machine gun ban, then the 68 GCA then the 34 NFA.

Also need to fire everyone on the board and executive team with awesome youtube influencers.

Then maybe, kinda, I might, sorta send 'em an Andrew Jackson. Maybe.

Reality is 99% of the 96% of freeloaders are just gonna keep freeloading and posting stupid leftist articles to justify their lack of participation. The excuses are limitless and weak people use excuses like fat kids with cake.

Other than that, just keep recruiting as much as you personally can whenever you have an opportunity.

This is worthy of reposting 1000's of times !
Sir you nailed it perfectly, easily influenced media fed Chumps, who might send a Jackson, if theres not a shoot em up movie playing somewhere that will entertain them for an hour or 2.

I went from a multi 5 year member to life because of David Hogg. I went to Endowment Life because of Wayne La Pierre and the relentless attacks by media and the democrat party. The democrats now want the NRA labeled as a terrorist organization!
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-g...terrorist-org/

"The NRA today is a far cry from the NRA that in 1999 said that teachers shouldn’t carry weapons in schools,” Malloy said. “Or in the ’90s said we should have universal background checks. They have in essence become a terrorist organization.”


Friends upgrading is rewarding and although it doesn't replace cheapskate freeloaders it helps a little .
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Who is John Galt!
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Last edited by ja308; 05-27-2019 at 8:55 AM..
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  #110  
Old 05-27-2019, 9:13 AM
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I would really like to see the data on this, but since I haven’t...I’m going to speculate a bit.

What is the ultimate goal? As suggested by the OP, more NRA membership to support 2A activities. Well, judging by this thread alone, that’ll be difficult. Not everyone agrees with the NRA. So let’s change the goal.

What should be the ultimate goal? Support for 2A activities, period. NRA is not the only organization that supports 2A (setting aside to what extent). I believe the OP has a good idea, it just needs to be tweaked. Instead of specifically offering the NRA, there should be a list of organizations offered.

Why a list? The data I would like to see is ‘which organizations are people associated with?’ My guess, most people have joined more than one organization. People that initially join an organization are of a particular mindset. If they join one, they’ll more than likely join another. It’s support of the first organization that is the hurdle.

So my suggestion, don’t limit the offering to just the NRA. Offer a list and everyone will benefit.
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  #111  
Old 05-27-2019, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black306 View Post
I would really like to see the data on this, but since I haven’t...I’m going to speculate a bit.

What is the ultimate goal? As suggested by the OP, more NRA membership to support 2A activities. Well, judging by this thread alone, that’ll be difficult. Not everyone agrees with the NRA. So let’s change the goal.

What should be the ultimate goal? Support for 2A activities, period. NRA is not the only organization that supports 2A (setting aside to what extent). I believe the OP has a good idea, it just needs to be tweaked. Instead of specifically offering the NRA, there should be a list of organizations offered.

Why a list? The data I would like to see is ‘which organizations are people associated with?’ My guess, most people have joined more than one organization. People that initially join an organization are of a particular mindset. If they join one, they’ll more than likely join another. It’s support of the first organization that is the hurdle.

So my suggestion, don’t limit the offering to just the NRA. Offer a list and everyone will benefit.
Just off the top of my head:
NRA
GOA
CRPA (or whatever state you're currently in)
2AF

Anybody who has enough technical knowledge to join this forum has more than enough technical knowledge to find this information for themselves. Most of the whiners trying to throw the NRA under the bus know damned good and well how to find this information. They aren't going to join any of them. They aren't going to donate one plug nickel or one split second of time to them. They're going to sit in their armchairs and complain not enough is being done by everyone else to accommodate them while not lifting a finger to help.

I have no use for people like that, no matter what the subject is.
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  #112  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Just off the top of my head:
NRA
GOA
CRPA (or whatever state you're currently in)
2AF

Anybody who has enough technical knowledge to join this forum has more than enough technical knowledge to find this information for themselves. Most of the whiners trying to throw the NRA under the bus know damned good and well how to find this information. They aren't going to join any of them. They aren't going to donate one plug nickel or one split second of time to them. They're going to sit in their armchairs and complain not enough is being done by everyone else to accommodate them while not lifting a finger to help.

I have no use for people like that, no matter what the subject is.
I acknowledge your stance on the subject and respect it.

I agree there are people unwilling to help. There are also others that are unable to help. Everybody has a list of priorities. To you and me, support for 2A organizations is higher on the list and we have the means to pay for it. For some, 2A support is a lower priority. Low enough that it may mean not joining an organization.

Considering that, I would much rather a person be a gun owner and not associated with a 2A organization than a non-gun owner not associated with a 2A association. At least being a gun owner means there are funds going to the gun industry and indirectly to 2A support.

Ignorance, which is technically not a bad word, plays a role as well. People buying their first firearm may not know the struggles around 2A. Personally, my first firearm was for self defense and my wife wanted me to get one (funny story there ). As long as I was able to buy one, what’s the big deal? (Rhetorical question, but valid for someone starting out in firearms.)

Our goal should be to incentivize people that are on the verge of joining an organization and incentivize/informing the ignorant. Also, we should focus on having people join any organization, not any specific one.

What do you think about an incentive to join at least one organization when purchasing a firearm?
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  #113  
Old 05-27-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I know one Florida shooting range requires NRA membership.
It might be a good idea to talk with range owners and see if this can be done.

How about calgunns making NRA membership mandatory ? sure would thin out lots of people I have stopped reading.
So in your mind we should be required to pay to exercise our rights? It's almost like it's not a right then? All your plan would do is piss people off and make them stop going to ranges and decrease membership on this forum. It would do more harm than good because ranges would be getting less business and this forum would wind up dying.
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  #114  
Old 05-27-2019, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
So in your mind we should be required to pay to exercise our rights? It's almost like it's not a right then? All your plan would do is piss people off and make them stop going to ranges and decrease membership on this forum. It would do more harm than good because ranges would be getting less business and this forum would wind up dying.
I don't really see a downside as this Florida range was nearly full. I was a 5 year member but forgot my NRA card so they sold me a membership which extended my 5 year.

A person not wanting to join the NRA could always open up their own range or take chances in the desert where there are no safety rules,targets and where its possible to run across people you dont really want to run across.

I also believe most non NRA members rarely shoot anyway so it isn't much of a loss IMO!

For the record Im am lifetime CRPA
Life Endowment NRA
GOC
GOA
both yearly memberships
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"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
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  #115  
Old 05-27-2019, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Yes.

Because that’s what you call it when nothing has yet been proven in a
Court of Law, where ALL the details and facts are presented from all
sides to determine the Truth in the Matter.


The Outrage Mob, aka Mob Rule / Court of Ill-Informed Public Opinion,
Is for Dullards who don’t believe in Due Process, and the concept of
Innocent until Proven Guilty, like what the Democrats did to Judge Kavanaugh,
which, judging from your comment, you apparently approved of.


Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
I can't get behind your crazy thinking. You want to compare "evidence"? In the case of Cavanagh, there was no evidence besides one woman's willingness to make claims.

But with the NRA, there is plenty of actual evidence. You go ahead and remain willfully blind, I'm done talking to you. I got to figure out how this ignore button works
First off, details matter. Like for example your misspelling of Kavanaugh,
when the proper spelling has already been presented to you, and yet you
still got it wrong. It a small detail to be sure, but it indicates you don’t pay
attention to details.

For example:

Point specifically to what has been proven as illegal or malfeasance.

Currently their are Two lawsuits in play, NRA vs Ackerman to force them to
give full disclosure of financials, and now Ackerman has counter sued NRA.

Plus we have a Biased, Anti-NRA, Anti-2A NY Attorney General, who said
the NRA was a “ terrorist organization ” and basically ran on a
“Take on the NRA” as part of her Progressive Democrat platform to get elected.

She is taking advantage of the NRA being Chartered in 1871 in New York,
so she can go after their 501c status, and ultimately try to dissolve the NRA.

And in addition to that assault, the NRA was financially attacked by
Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, which even the ACLU says was illegal,
and the ACLU is supporting the NRA’s lawsuit against the political hit job.

All of this will expose any illegal and or malfeasance on the assorted parties,
and unlike you, I am willing to see Due Process take it’s course, and see
the results, Then Proceed with the appropriate response.

If Mr LaPierre, or anyone else, is proven to have committed any illegal acts,
or performed actual malfeasance, they should be punished accordingly.

We also have another NRA BOD election coming up in less than a year, and
any NRA members unhappy with the status quo can express that with their
vote, and by contacting the NRA BOD and expressing their concerns.

And finally let’s look at Left Wing TPM, which I’m sure would love to paint
the NRA in a negative way by saying these Allegations are True, but they
Don’t, because even they know not to claim them as proven, lest they be
sued:

How The New York Attorney General’s Probe Threatens The NRA’s Future
TPM. April 30, 2019
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...l-dissolve-nra
Quote... ( emphasis mine )
“James’ investigation has raised the stakes for an NRA already grappling
with allegations of decades of fiscal mismanagement and insider deals
between top executives and higher-ups at the NRA’s longtime ad firm,
Ackerman McQueen.

The NRA sued Ackerman this month, claiming that the Oklahoma
City-based company is refusing to hand over documents it needed to
inspect the pair’s financial relationship.”


So Yes, they are UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS at this point in time, despite what
the ANTI-NRA crowd would like you to believe.

And putting me on ignore only shows you don’t have a valid argument,
and in addition exposes your intellectual weakness in dealing with a
Different Perspective.


Noble

Last edited by Noble Cause; 05-27-2019 at 2:59 PM..
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  #116  
Old 05-27-2019, 5:41 PM
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Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
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Noble, you are completely disregarding the financial mismanagement outlined in NRA's own tax returns. This current brouhaha is much more than the lawsuits between AckMac and NRA.

The fact that you want to harp on spelling tells me you have a small mind. Go complain to Siri about it.

And for the love of god, try not to be so repetitive in your posts. Maybe draft a post, take a break, then return later to edit out the drivel. You show a lack of awareness about the big picture.
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  #117  
Old 05-27-2019, 5:53 PM
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eta34 eta34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
First off, details matter. Like for example your misspelling of Kavanaugh,
when the proper spelling has already been presented to you, and yet you
still got it wrong. It a small detail to be sure, but it indicates you don’t pay
attention to details.

For example:

Point specifically to what has been proven as illegal or malfeasance.

Currently their are Two lawsuits in play, NRA vs Ackerman to force them to
give full disclosure of financials, and now Ackerman has counter sued NRA.

Plus we have a Biased, Anti-NRA, Anti-2A NY Attorney General, who said
the NRA was a “ terrorist organization ” and basically ran on a
“Take on the NRA” as part of her Progressive Democrat platform to get elected.

She is taking advantage of the NRA being Chartered in 1871 in New York,
so she can go after their 501c status, and ultimately try to dissolve the NRA.

And in addition to that assault, the NRA was financially attacked by
Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, which even the ACLU says was illegal,
and the ACLU is supporting the NRA’s lawsuit against the political hit job.

All of this will expose any illegal and or malfeasance on the assorted parties,
and unlike you, I am willing to see Due Process take it’s course, and see
the results, Then Proceed with the appropriate response.

If Mr LaPierre, or anyone else, is proven to have committed any illegal acts,
or performed actual malfeasance, they should be punished accordingly.

We also have another NRA BOD election coming up in less than a year, and
any NRA members unhappy with the status quo can express that with their
vote, and by contacting the NRA BOD and expressing their concerns.

And finally let’s look at Left Wing TPM, which I’m sure would love to paint
the NRA in a negative way by saying these Allegations are True, but they
Don’t, because even they know not to claim them as proven, lest they be
sued:

How The New York Attorney General’s Probe Threatens The NRA’s Future
TPM. April 30, 2019
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...l-dissolve-nra
Quote... ( emphasis mine )
“James’ investigation has raised the stakes for an NRA already grappling
with allegations of decades of fiscal mismanagement and insider deals
between top executives and higher-ups at the NRA’s longtime ad firm,
Ackerman McQueen.

The NRA sued Ackerman this month, claiming that the Oklahoma
City-based company is refusing to hand over documents it needed to
inspect the pair’s financial relationship.”


So Yes, they are UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS at this point in time, despite what
the ANTI-NRA crowd would like you to believe.

And putting me on ignore only shows you don’t have a valid argument,
and in addition exposes your intellectual weakness in dealing with a
Different Perspective.


Noble
Correct. Details matter. There is a difference between there/their/they're. Perhaps you should learn that before criticizing others. Also, you repeatedly capitalize words that do not need capitalization. You said it...details matter. Does that mean we should all ignore the content of your posts due to your poor grammar and spelling?
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  #118  
Old 05-27-2019, 7:11 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Correct. Details matter. There is a difference between there/their/they're. Perhaps you should learn that before criticizing others. Also, you repeatedly capitalize words that do not need capitalization. You said it...details matter. Does that mean we should all ignore the content of your posts due to your poor grammar and spelling?
Sure.

Feel free to ignore my posts.


Noble
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  #119  
Old 05-27-2019, 7:28 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
I can't get behind your crazy thinking. You want to compare "evidence"? In the case of Cavanagh, there was no evidence besides one woman's willingness to make claims.

But with the NRA, there is plenty of actual evidence. You go ahead and remain willfully blind, I'm done talking to you. I got to figure out how this ignore button works
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
First off, details matter. Like for example your misspelling of Kavanaugh,
when the proper spelling has already been presented to you, and yet you
still got it wrong. It a small detail to be sure, but it indicates you don’t pay
attention to details.

For example:

Point specifically to what has been proven as illegal or malfeasance.

Currently their are Two lawsuits in play, NRA vs Ackerman to force them to
give full disclosure of financials, and now Ackerman has counter sued NRA.

Plus we have a Biased, Anti-NRA, Anti-2A NY Attorney General, who said
the NRA was a “ terrorist organization ” and basically ran on a
“Take on the NRA” as part of her Progressive Democrat platform to get elected.

She is taking advantage of the NRA being Chartered in 1871 in New York,
so she can go after their 501c status, and ultimately try to dissolve the NRA.

And in addition to that assault, the NRA was financially attacked by
Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, which even the ACLU says was illegal,
and the ACLU is supporting the NRA’s lawsuit against the political hit job.

All of this will expose any illegal and or malfeasance on the assorted parties,
and unlike you, I am willing to see Due Process take it’s course, and see
the results, Then Proceed with the appropriate response.

If Mr LaPierre, or anyone else, is proven to have committed any illegal acts,
or performed actual malfeasance, they should be punished accordingly.

We also have another NRA BOD election coming up in less than a year, and
any NRA members unhappy with the status quo can express that with their
vote, and by contacting the NRA BOD and expressing their concerns.

And finally let’s look at Left Wing TPM, which I’m sure would love to paint
the NRA in a negative way by saying these Allegations are True, but they
Don’t, because even they know not to claim them as proven, lest they be
sued:

How The New York Attorney General’s Probe Threatens The NRA’s Future
TPM. April 30, 2019
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...l-dissolve-nra
Quote... ( emphasis mine )
“James’ investigation has raised the stakes for an NRA already grappling
with allegations of decades of fiscal mismanagement and insider deals
between top executives and higher-ups at the NRA’s longtime ad firm,
Ackerman McQueen.

The NRA sued Ackerman this month, claiming that the Oklahoma
City-based company is refusing to hand over documents it needed to
inspect the pair’s financial relationship.”


So Yes, they are UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS at this point in time, despite what
the ANTI-NRA crowd would like you to believe.

And putting me on ignore only shows you don’t have a valid argument,
and in addition exposes your intellectual weakness in dealing with a
Different Perspective.


Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Noble, you are completely disregarding the financial mismanagement outlined in NRA's own tax returns. This current brouhaha is much more than the lawsuits between AckMac and NRA.

The fact that you want to harp on spelling tells me you have a small mind. Go complain to Siri about it.

And for the love of god, try not to be so repetitive in your posts. Maybe draft a post, take a break, then return later to edit out the drivel. You show a lack of awareness about the big picture.
What happened to putting me on Ignore ?

No, I made a point that even with the Correct Spelling put Right In
Front of you, you still made the mistake, not that in itself a spelling
mistake automatically invalidates an argument.

You were wrong about my proper use of the Term Allegations, and yet
your not man enough to admit that, nor specifically address the points
made in my posts.

As far as your insinuation that you have a better grasp on the Big Picture
then myself, I will let the readers of this Thread decide for themselves
who has presented the better argument.


Noble
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  #120  
Old 05-28-2019, 3:45 AM
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njineermike njineermike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
So in your mind we should be required to pay to exercise our rights? It's almost like it's not a right then? All your plan would do is piss people off and make them stop going to ranges and decrease membership on this forum. It would do more harm than good because ranges would be getting less business and this forum would wind up dying.
Nobody has a right to access a private shooting range any more than they have a right to access your living room. NRA run and operated shooting ranges already require NRA membership to access. If a private business decides to require NRA membership to access ranges, they can do that. It's no more a violation of your civil rights than requiring shirt and shoes.
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Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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