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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 04-21-2019, 8:48 PM
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Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
I’ve got beach front property at a great price for you.

Just because something might be factual doesn’t mean they don’t have an agenda.

That article is absolutely anti-NRA which also makes it anti-2a.
Lol this process has been valuable… Another FUD unmasked. blind allegiance to NRA is not helpful. Nor is crying about what you perceive to be an anti-NRA piece.

Feel free to post any facts that would show that article is wrong about the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

I swear, some of you are like battered spouses… You've been abused for so long that you're afraid to criticize your abuser.

Like I said, I am a longtime member of the NRA and the CRPA. That doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to their malfeasance and mismanagement.

Stick that bridge where the sun don't shine
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Lol this process has been valuable… Another FUD unmasked. blind allegiance to NRA is not helpful. Nor is crying about what you perceive to be an anti-NRA piece.

Feel free to post any facts that would show that article is wrong about the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

I swear, some of you are like battered spouses… You've been abused for so long that you're afraid to criticize your abuser.

Like I said, I am a longtime member of the NRA and the CRPA. That doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to their malfeasance and mismanagement.

Stick that bridge where the sun don't shine

Eh dumbaz, where did I claim the article is wrong?

It could be right and still be anti-NRA. Why is that so hard for your dumbaz to comprehend?
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Eh dumbaz, where did I claim the article is wrong?

It could be right and still be anti-NRA. Why is that so hard for your dumbaz to comprehend?
Take it easy, no need to be abusive. There's also no need to be willfully blind to the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

"but, but...muh NRA, right or wrong."

So first off, are you an NRA member? If not, you have no say. Second, what are you going to do to salvage the NRA? More solutions, less FUD. Ya FUD
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Take it easy, no need to be abusive. There's also no need to be willfully blind to the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

"but, but...muh NRA, right or wrong."

So first off, are you an NRA member? If not, you have no say. Second, what are you going to do to salvage the NRA? More solutions, less FUD. Ya FUD


You’re a special kind of stupid.

Your position is that this was a top notch piece of investigative journalism, eh?!

Hahahahahhaahahahhahahahahaha. You’d buy my beach front for sure ya yokel.
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  #45  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
You’re a special kind of stupid.

Your position is that this was a top notch piece of investigative journalism, eh?!

Hahahahahhaahahahhahahahahaha. You’d buy my beach front for sure ya yokel.
Feel free to offer a substantive response anytime. Until then, keep your drunken ramblings to yourself.
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Feel free to offer a substantive response anytime. Until then, keep your drunken ramblings to yourself.
Go back to the marketplace where you spend all your time ya uneducated "longtime NRA member" DB

But before you fade into the internet abyss...go back and read this exchange. I will donate $20 to your charity of choice for every error and logical fallacy you've posted so far, if you can accurately account for them (pro tip - you might need to be able to count).
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:46 PM
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I bet they could increase membership if they offered a free hat or range bag.
Maybe a drawing for a truck or something like that.

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  #48  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Go back to the marketplace where you spend all your time ya uneducated "longtime NRA member" DB

But before you fade into the internet abyss...go back and read this exchange. I will donate $20 to your charity of choice for every error and logical fallacy you've posted so far, if you can accurately account for them (pro tip - you might need to be able to count).
Dang. Not really sure what you're trying to say, you seem a little confused.

Again, feel free to post up any information you have that would show that article was incorrect about the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

It's sad when FUDs don't even know they are FUD-ing.
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  #49  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wpod View Post
I bet they could increase membership if they offered a free hat or range bag.
Maybe a drawing for a truck or something like that.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Right. Or if they sent endless junk mail. People love that.
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  #50  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:59 PM
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Default How to increase NRA Membership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
the NRA is a FUD. don't be a fascist FUD. read that article 1st.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Lol this process has been valuable… Another FUD unmasked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
More solutions, less FUD. Ya FUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
It's sad when FUDs don't even know they are FUD-ing.



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  #51  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:12 PM
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This again.

It's a hit piece written by Jeff Knox a well known anti-NRA advocate and the son of Neal Knox who made a failed attempt to take over the NRA.

The opinion piece is based entirely on a 'report' in the New Yorker, a well known anti-2A, anti-NRA publication.

The New Yorker article is based entirely on the 'facts' posted in an article on the website 'thetrace', one of Michael Bloomberg's pet anti-2a projects.

Ask yourself a question, if there was validity to this, and I'm not saying there aren't problems like with any organization, but if there was real solid evidence of a problem of this scale would you see it plastered all over CNN and MSNBC?

Do a quick Google search for 'cnn nra' and 'msnbc nra' and see if you find it. Remembering that Google itself is solidly anti-2A and would likely present a verified story like this in the top three results.
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  #52  
Old 04-21-2019, 11:39 PM
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The old; "divide and conquer" ploy.
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  #53  
Old 04-22-2019, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by frankm View Post
I'd sign up again if they wouldn't call me constantly and send me mail spam.
Yeah. I keep getting sent American Hunter, which I asked for, and they keep continually not calling me all the time.

The 2AF calls me and sends me WAY more than the NRA.
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Dude went full CNN...
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  #54  
Old 04-22-2019, 4:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
It's not an anti-NRA article. Anyone who won't tolerate criticism or scrutiny of the NRA is a FUD. don't be a fascist FUD. read that article 1st.
I did read it. It's a bunch of random facts without context trying to make it look like 6 million of us are going to suddenly be laid off as members or something. This is not K-Mart. The NRA is not lobbyists or Ollie North. The NRA is 6 million of us that will continue doing what we've always done. The NRA is people maintaining shooting ranges, calling representatives, actively participating in the political process to preserve our rights, and voting, and it will continue being that.
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Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
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  #55  
Old 04-22-2019, 8:01 AM
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IMHO, this guy Suresh*t has some real problems.
Maybe he doesn't even like guns.
Just saying......
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  #56  
Old 04-22-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
IMHO, this guy Suresh*t has some real problems.
Maybe he doesn't even like guns.
Just saying......
I'm convinced about half are just shill accounts.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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  #57  
Old 04-22-2019, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
I keep reading how we have 90 million gun owners in America, yet only 6 million NRA members. And I keep thinking, how utterly disgraceful and mind-boggling it is, that such a small percentage of gun owners belong to the strongest pro-gun-rights group in the world. And I keep imagining how much stronger our position could be, if we could double or triple that percentage.
I mean, how much stronger would our hand be, if it had,say, 18 million members, rather than 6?

As it is, the 84 million gun owners who aren't in the NRA, are in effect getting a "free ride" from the ones who are. We're the ones who pay the fees, and help fight the fight, for the ones who don't. It's like a football offense where the center hikes the ball to himself, runs straight ahead, while his 10 teammates stand there and do squat.

I have an idea that might increase membership. I'm sure someone has thought of this already, or someone will poke holes in it. But hear me out.

Who are the biggest financial stakeholders? Who has the strongest interest in keeping guns in America free, besides we gun owners? Well, of course, it's the companies that make and sell firearms, gun parts,and ammo.

I think that the largest gun and ammo companies(e.g. Glock, Remington, S&W, Winchester, etc) need to get together with the NRA, and design a voluntary program in which NRA members get a noticeable discount on firearms purchases. Nobody would be required to be a NRA member to buy a firearm. But, if you were a NRA member, and you proved this before a purchase, you get the discount. Better yet, if you proved you were a LIFETIME member, the discount would be even higher.

You ask, well, how would these companies "pay" for this discount? That hasn't been worked out yet, but there could be multiple ways for them to recoup those discounts. Perhaps membership could be raised a tiny amount. Perhaps these companies could raise their prices a tiny amount. Perhaps people who are already lifetime members, could be targeted to chip in more money, to cover the costs of this program. Perhaps a combination of the above.

I'm sure there are brighter and more business-geared folks on here than me, who could pipe in on the pros and cons of this idea, or even suggest a better way to tweak this.

The idea is to keep our eyes on the GOAL: a vastly larger and more influential NRA. We have to grow. We can't just replace ourselves as we pass away. Each of us needs to have that goal of replacing ourselves with between 1.5 and 2 people. There are ways to accomplish this. We just need to find them.

Getting back to the Original Premise of OP robertkjjj...

How do we continue to Grow the NRA ?
A complex issue to be sure.

Getting incentives for joining the NRA seems a mixed bag to me.

If the NRA has to Bribe you to Join, just how committed are you to
defending the 2nd Amendment ? ( Not to disparage OP's idea, at least
he is presenting an idea that might eventually lead to something.)

We have forces aligned against the 2A & NRA,
demonizing it Constantly:
  • Leftist Mass Media (CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYTimes, etc.)
  • Hollywood (Entertainment Industry)
  • Silicon Valley Tech Corporations
  • Educational System (More of a Indoctrination System now)
  • Democrat Party (Now the Party of Anti-2A Gun Control)

Then we have Bloomberg's Billions to endlessly fund things like:
  • Everytown
  • The Trace
  • John Hopkins to churn out Anti-Gun "Research"
  • State by State Incremental Gun Control
  • Anti-2A, Anti-2A Shills / authors paid to write hit pieces

Then we have the NRA being Perceived as its own worst enemy at times,
which creates dissent among Gun Owners who would otherwise join.

Then we have the NRA doing some strategic maneuver, like the recent
Bump Stock strategy, which a lot of Gun Owners misunderstood to
think that the NRA supported a Ban on Bump Stocks (It Did Not),
but if the NRA disclosed its strategy, it would negate the tactic,
so Gun Owners had to figure it out for themselves.

Even with this attempt to misdirect, the Anti-2A crowd started to figured
out what the NRA was REALLY up to on Bump Stocks:

The NRA's strategic ploy on bump stocks
CNN. 10/5/2019
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/polit...ock/index.html
Quote:
Consider first that the NRA is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms (ATF) to handle the bump stock issue. Why does this matter?
Because if ATF takes on the issue, it means that Congress doesn't.
Quote:
It takes the air out of the attack -- that many Democrats have already
made in the wake of Las Vegas -- that the NRA opposes all gun control
measures and that the Republican Congress marches in lockstep with them
Quote:
Make no mistake: This move on bump stocks is an attempt by the NRA to
stop a broad public debate on guns before it really begins in earnest.
And it almost certainly will work.
So the Question Becomes, How do you Overcome all of the Above
in order to vastly increase NRA membership, and thus increase its Political
Clout from an 800LB Gorilla to a 70 Ton M1A2 Abrams Tank ?


Well, there is little we can do against the Mainstream Media, other than
support Alternative social media that often exposes Fake News, and there
isn't much we can do about the other areas, except stop supporting the
Democrat Party.

That leaves Improving the NRA as a possible solution to help.

Of course, the Devil is In the Details, and getting Gun Owners to agree
on things is the equivalent of herding cats in one direction.

One thing I wish the NRA would do is have a "Rapid Response Team"
24/7 for dealing with events, that could keep membership informed
on the NRA's take on events in a timely manner, and more quickly respond
to the Anti-2A Garbage that is Spewed out by the Mass Media after
some Lunatic goes on a Murder Rampage. At least this would somewhat
minimize the Snowball to Avalanche effect that often takes place.

Another easy fix would be to allow members to easily choose about
donation requests, and what information they would want to receive.
Simply having a membership account webpage where you could adjust
all of the above to suit your needs would be an improvement:

How many times per year may we contact you for donations ?
  • Never.
  • 1 to 2.
  • 3 to 6.
  • Up to 12.
  • Full FPC Mode, Numerous Times Every Day...

Preferred methods of contact, choose any that apply:
  • Phone (Land)
  • Phone (Cell)
  • Email
  • Text
  • Snail Mail
  • Morse Code
  • Smoke Signals
  • Chem Trails
  • Never Contact Me or show up at my Cave Entrance.

Having a direct way to leave messages directly to the board member
who represents your area should also be considered, so members
could at least give some immediate feedback rather than waiting in
a phone queue line forever or Snail Mail.


You get the idea.

If you have some of your own ideas, post them up.


Noble
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  #58  
Old 04-23-2019, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Then we have the NRA doing some strategic maneuver, like the recent
Bump Stock strategy, which a lot of Gun Owners misunderstood to
think that the NRA supported a Ban on Bump Stocks (It Did Not),
but if the NRA disclosed its strategy, it would negate the tactic,
so Gun Owners had to figure it out for themselves.
But in fairness to those who were and are up in arms about it, how strategic was it really? Yes, it's easier to challenge in court because of the history in bump stocks being previously approved and the administrative redefinition of a congressional law and the unlawful takings aspects. But there are companies that destroyed holding of these items worth hundreds of thousands of dollars allegedly and the ATF called the bluff and promulgated those regulations. When was the last time that Congress actually passed something substantive? It's absolute gridlock up in there.

Leaving it to Congress to handle would have virtually guaranteed the status quo whereas this method lost people property and rights. As a benefactor member of the NRA, I don't appreciate them gambling like that, particularly as I don't see them crowing about how they have now filed lawsuits over the gross overreach by the executive in attempting to arbitrarily redefine federal law. Between that and all the requests for money when they don't seem to have really been bringing the fight in any of the states where we're now in danger of losing real ground... I'm not all that inclined to respond kindly to their pleas for dinero.
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  #59  
Old 04-23-2019, 3:47 PM
YubaRiver YubaRiver is offline
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Is it true that Wayne gets his $1.4 million a year even in retirement?
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  #60  
Old 04-23-2019, 4:24 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpegasus View Post
But in fairness to those who were and are up in arms about it, how strategic was it really? Yes, it's easier to challenge in court because of the history in bump stocks being previously approved and the administrative redefinition of a congressional law and the unlawful takings aspects. But there are companies that destroyed holding of these items worth hundreds of thousands of dollars allegedly and the ATF called the bluff and promulgated those regulations. When was the last time that Congress actually passed something substantive? It's absolute gridlock up in there.

Leaving it to Congress to handle would have virtually guaranteed the status quo whereas this method lost people property and rights. As a benefactor member of the NRA, I don't appreciate them gambling like that, particularly as I don't see them crowing about how they have now filed lawsuits over the gross overreach by the executive in attempting to arbitrarily redefine federal law. Between that and all the requests for money when they don't seem to have really been bringing the fight in any of the states where we're now in danger of losing real ground... I'm not all that inclined to respond kindly to their pleas for dinero.

Believe what you want, but at the time there was a serious
effort going on for Congress to act, fueled by an Outrage Mob
whipped up by the Anti-2A Mass Media.

What You Need To Know About The NRA’s
Actual Position On The Bump Stock Ban
Bearing Arms. Jan 13, 2019
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/0...ump-stock-ban/
Quote:
"However, I also saw a lot of Second Amendment supporters lashing
out at the National Rifle Association and its leadership for calling for
the ATF to do just that. They viewed it as a betrayal. The NRA had
sold out our Second Amendment rights!


But did it? "
Quote:
That’s why the NRA said that it ought to be regulated – NOT banned.

Why? Because politicians [had the votes] and were building steam
[in 2018 Congress] and moving toward a ban on all
semi-automatic firearms.


Quote:
[the call for regulation by the NRA took the wind out of this legislative
effort and moved the bump stock ban, now a “rule” instead of a law,
into the regulatory realm where it can now be argued against
(lawsuits have been filed ) and ruled on by the courts.]


NRA Statement on Bump Fire Stock Rule
NRA-ILA. Friday, December 21, 2018
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2018...ire-stock-rule
Quote:
These devices came to national attention in October 2017 after the horrific
attack in Las Vegas. As multiple media accounts correctly pointed to at the
time, there was overwhelming legislative support for proposals that went
far beyond these specific devices and some that could have potentially
jeopardized all semiautomatic firearms. Rather than sit back and watch
a legislative over-reaction, the NRA asked Congress to let ATF review its
prior determinations on bump fire stocks.

Some have used our October 2017 statement to claim that NRA supports
ATF’s final rule, but as NRA-ILA’s Executive Director Chris Cox noted only
days after our statement was issued,
“We don’t believe that bans have ever worked on anything.”

================ END QUOTES ===============


The NRA produced the best outcome it could, given the lousy
position it was put in by Anti-2A Politicians desperate to appease
the Outrage Mob Stirred up the Anti-2A Media and Bloomberg's
Anti-2A Everytown:


Poll: 82 percent support a ban on bump stocks
The Hill. 10/13/17
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...on-bump-stocks
Quote:
Eighty-two percent of respondents say that so-called "bump stocks"
should be banned. Similar numbers favor banning assault-style weapons
and high-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds:
79 percent and 78 percent, respectively

Quote:
Democrats have proposed anti-bump stock legislation, but GOP leaders
say change should come on the regulatory level, specifically calling for
action from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

On Thursday, the National Rifle Association announced its opposition
to bills banning bump stocks, calling them "intentionally overreaching."

============ END QUOTES ==================


Don't let the Anti-2A, Anti-NRA crowd, who are constantly trying
to divide Gun Owners, Win.

If you stop supporting the NRA...
that is EXACTLY WHAT THE ANTI'S WANT,
and the very reason
that Bloomberg has been paying 50 to 60 MILLION Dollars a pop
to specifically Bring down the NRA.

Be VERY Skeptical about all the Anti-NRA Nonsense.


Noble

Last edited by Noble Cause; 04-23-2019 at 4:27 PM..
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  #61  
Old 04-23-2019, 4:30 PM
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dfletcher dfletcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
IMHO, this guy Suresh*t has some real problems.
Maybe he doesn't even like guns.
Just saying......
Heck, who knows.

One wonders when all we see are non-gun posts from low count folks. Especially the OP of that other thread, who drops little rabbit pellets here and there, dispassionately moves on and doesn't even bother to check into his own material, such as the balance sheet. All we get is "gee, take a look at this guys - what do you think?" And off they go …..

According to the article NRA is broke. But a review of the spread sheet, and numbers not included in the article BTW, NRA is about $35M in the black. Seems like a fair amount of $$$ for a $200M organization that 2 years about spent $30M on a presidential election. Certainly doesn't back up an assertion the organization is in trouble.

Interesting that so many default to "the article must be correct" and refuted rather than questioning its presentation. One wonders if they'd take that same approach with an anti-gun article.

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-23-2019 at 4:33 PM..
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  #62  
Old 04-23-2019, 4:52 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Heck, who knows.

One wonders when all we see are non-gun posts from low count folks. Especially the OP of that other thread, who drops little rabbit pellets here and there, dispassionately moves on and doesn't even bother to check into his own material, such as the balance sheet. All we get is "gee, take a look at this guys - what do you think?" And off they go …..
Yea, imagine that, me showing people things I find interesting and letting them make their own conclusions and the audacity of me asking people to analyze tax information I don't understand. If it helps you sleep better at night thinking I am some troll, then glad to help.
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Old 04-23-2019, 4:58 PM
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Sure, he has an ax to grind. That, however, isn't the question. The real question should be, is the article accurate? Because if it is, you might want to think about whom you support, and who represents your interests.

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Not one piece of evidence it is accurate, but feel free to assume it is.

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Originally Posted by THBailey View Post
I am not a forensic cpa by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been around audits and annual reports a fair bit. Perhaps I missed it, but nothing in the audit report stands out as problematic. The Spies hit piece throws around, completely out of context, money numbers that look way large and shocking to the average person. But in the realm of national organizations running national advertising campaigns? Perhaps not at all out of line. I mean, 30 seconds on the Superbowl costs over $5 Million, and that's just to run it, doesn't include production costs. Beto O'Rourke spent over $79 Million on the failed senate bid, and that was just one district in Texas. Perhaps not directly relevant to the point, I agree, but it does illustrate the type of fiscal horsepower we are up against. And I must admit I am pretty impressed with the quality and persuasiveness of the nationally run NRA TV adds in the last few years. I bet those national add campaigns are way expensive, what do you think? Seems like the NRA may well be getting their money's worth.

The real point behind all this is the political power of the NRA. The power arises from the solid voting block of NRA members. At times the NRA has, and still can, deliver campaign deciding votes. Mike Spies and his handlers want to destroy that power by sowing distrust to split up that block. Reading the posts it appears Mr. Spies and company are making progress.

Rather than capitulate, why don't we work together to double or triple the size of that voting block?
GOA might just be anto 2A given the number of trolls they send here attacking the NRA, or perhaps it's greed.

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Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
Dang. Not really sure what you're trying to say, you seem a little confused.

Again, feel free to post up any information you have that would show that article was incorrect about the NRA's fiscal mismanagement.

It's sad when FUDs don't even know they are FUD-ing.
Why is it our job to prove an obvious hit piece is inaccurate? You are the one defending it, show us your proof. Or do what you always do, present a hit piece, call us all blind, Call us FUD, insist we provide proof when you have presented nothing to support your position but a hit piece, then disappear back into the woodwork.

Seriously every post you make shows your anti NRA which by your own statement makes you Anti 2A.

You provide no solutions just attacks.
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Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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Old 04-23-2019, 5:00 PM
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Yea, imagine that, me showing people things I find interesting and letting them make their own conclusions and the audacity of me asking people to analyze tax information I don't understand. If it helps you sleep better at night thinking I am some troll, then glad to help.
So tell us exactly HOW you are helping us fight for the 2A??
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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Old 04-23-2019, 5:28 PM
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It’s the same crap as all politics. Nobody knows what’s really going on accept those on the inside. That’s how I feel about it. $30 bucks a year is probably doing more for us than not......
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Old 04-23-2019, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
Yea, imagine that, me showing people things I find interesting and letting them make their own conclusions and the audacity of me asking people to analyze tax information I don't understand. If it helps you sleep better at night thinking I am some troll, then glad to help.
Hey - welcome back. Or, on board. Whichever applies ...

Now, c'mon - you did a tad more than just ask readers to "analyze tax information". You editorialized, presented a position. Not by beating people over the head with it, but still. That started by parroting the article's title in your own. Then, citing Gura as a "pro-2nd Amendment" voice without mentioning bad blood between him and NRA? Hemorrhaging money, NRA clearly needs to clean up its act? That doesn't sound like "let folks decide" to me. And what one leaves out is important - no admonition regarding Trace or the author's history.

Tax information you don't understand? Well, take a few minutes and learn a bit about it. Not like the rest of us are a bunch of CPAs. All I understand about $$$ is how to get it and how to spend it.

I don't use the word troll BTW, have never used it. And I pretty clearly started off by saying we have no idea of knowing who is what here. But to borrow a term of art from Justice Stevens, what folks write have penumbras which tend to guide readers one way or another. It's actually rather interesting, that such things occur across the internet. Sort of takes the place of eyeballing one another.

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-23-2019 at 8:36 PM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 7:24 AM
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Numbers do not lie. The NRA has practically gifted Ack-Mac and various subsidiaries Hundreds Millions of $$$ in the last 20 odd years. They were billing the NRA over $5 milion a year back when Neal Knox was trying to fire the PR firm and order Wayne to get rid of the jackals. In 2017 they were billing the NRA over $40 million for the year. THE YEAR.

Face it. The NRA Executives do not have the same mission as the membership.
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Old 04-24-2019, 7:28 AM
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"Kestrylll

This again.

It's a hit piece written by Jeff Knox a well known anti-NRA advocate and the son of Neal Knox who made a failed attempt to take over the NRA.

The opinion piece is based entirely on a 'report' in the New Yorker, a well known anti-2A, anti-NRA publication.

The New Yorker article is based entirely on the 'facts' posted in an article on the website 'thetrace', one of Michael Bloomberg's pet anti-2a projects.

Ask yourself a question, if there was validity to this, and I'm not saying there aren't problems like with any organization, but if there was real solid evidence of a problem of this scale would you see it plastered all over CNN and MSNBC?

Do a quick Google search for 'cnn nra' and 'msnbc nra' and see if you find it. Remembering that Google itself is solidly anti-2A and would likely present a verified story like this in the top three results."


The Knox family did more the NRA and gun owners than you will ever know. If it was not for Neal leading the charge against the old Guard of the NRA we would not have Concealed Carry or any of the other freedoms we currently enjoy. The reward for his work, Wayne LaPierre and the rest of his hangers on have spit on the man's name and reputation and done the same to his family.

Neal Knox was working for gun rights when most of the people who trash him were still in diapers or smoking a joint behind the burger shack.

As for the validity. Try googling the NRA filings. Do you know how many NRA BOD Members and Employees are working for the NRA and own companies that have business with the NRA? How many employees are making over $100k or $200k a year? How many NRA executives have employment contracts that guarantee them consulting contracts with the NRA after they retire?

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/53-0116130

Now let me ask you, are you satisfied with the results of the $40+ million dollars in PR spending that the NRA got with Ack-Mac in 2017? With their work for the last 20 years?

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 04-24-2019 at 7:49 AM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
"How to increase NRA Membership"

I wouldn't mind seeing retailers having a mandatory NRA registration, at point of sale, upon a purchase or transfer of any firearm, unless you can show valid current membership. It would also create incentive for lifetime membership for regular buyers and sellers.

I'd rather see a fee supporting 2A than a fee that goes to the government who can't create enough ways to infringe on the 2A and uses fees to confiscate firearms (APPS).

What's an extra $45? and with mandatory NRA membership the fee could be reduced because of the greater volume to something like $25 for the first year. Just add it onto the price. Lifetime members or current members exempt.

But I do agree a housecleaning needs to take place and sweetheart deals should be re evaluated and sent out for competitive bid.

IF they lose their tax status it's all over. Although after bankruptcy, someone could revive the brand under new management.
When people are forced to join a club regardless of if they actually support it specifically, it has historically not ended well.
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Old 04-24-2019, 8:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cyphr02 View Post
When people are forced to join a club regardless of if they actually support it specifically, it has historically not ended well.
IF you buy a firearm, my guess is you support the 2A making your argument moot.
YET, the government forces you to pay for a membership in the form of a FSC. And a fee for the DROS that is nothing but a National Registration.

OP asked "How to increase NRA membership". I gave a suggestion.
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:12 AM
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You want to get increase NRA Members

Step 1 Get rid of Ack-Mac

Step 2 Put NRA advertising account out to bid with included performance metrics including membership goals.I

Step 3 Encourage new members to sign up to receive digital copies of NRA mags, cost saving.

Step 4 Allow members to submit articles for possible publication on digital NRA publications.

Step 5 broadcast NRA matches on NRA website or through YouTube or other sites.

I could go on.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
You want to get increase NRA Members

Step 1 Get rid of Ack-Mac

Step 2 Put NRA advertising account out to bid with included performance metrics including membership goals.I

Step 3 Encourage new members to sign up to receive digital copies of NRA mags, cost saving.

Step 4 Allow members to submit articles for possible publication on digital NRA publications.

Step 5 broadcast NRA matches on NRA website or through YouTube or other sites.

I could go on.
Emphasis mine.

Please Do.

That is the Actual Purpose of this Thread, to increase NRA Membership.


Noble
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
"Kestrylll

This again.

It's a hit piece written by Jeff Knox a well known anti-NRA advocate and the son of Neal Knox who made a failed attempt to take over the NRA.

The opinion piece is based entirely on a 'report' in the New Yorker, a well known anti-2A, anti-NRA publication.

The New Yorker article is based entirely on the 'facts' posted in an article on the website 'thetrace', one of Michael Bloomberg's pet anti-2a projects.

Ask yourself a question, if there was validity to this, and I'm not saying there aren't problems like with any organization, but if there was real solid evidence of a problem of this scale would you see it plastered all over CNN and MSNBC?

Do a quick Google search for 'cnn nra' and 'msnbc nra' and see if you find it. Remembering that Google itself is solidly anti-2A and would likely present a verified story like this in the top three results."


The Knox family did more the NRA and gun owners than you will ever know. If it was not for Neal leading the charge against the old Guard of the NRA we would not have Concealed Carry or any of the other freedoms we currently enjoy. The reward for his work, Wayne LaPierre and the rest of his hangers on have spit on the man's name and reputation and done the same to his family.

Neal Knox was working for gun rights when most of the people who trash him were still in diapers or smoking a joint behind the burger shack.

As for the validity. Try googling the NRA filings. Do you know how many NRA BOD Members and Employees are working for the NRA and own companies that have business with the NRA? How many employees are making over $100k or $200k a year? How many NRA executives have employment contracts that guarantee them consulting contracts with the NRA after they retire?

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/53-0116130

Now let me ask you, are you satisfied with the results of the $40+ million dollars in PR spending that the NRA got with Ack-Mac in 2017? With their work for the last 20 years?
Well...

I was Very Happy with the 2016 Election Results.




And the NRA is currently suing Ac-Mac to account for the $40 million,
so they are taking actions in regards to it.

You have to explain why someone making "$100k to $200k a year" is
by itself, a "Bad Thing". The NRA is a large organization, and needs
competent people to run the various aspects of it on a day to day
basis. Not everyone can afford to work for Free or at a lower wage
level than can be found on the open market just because they believe
in the defending the 2nd Amendment.

And yes, most of us are aware of the 1977 Cincinnati Revolt and how
the Modern NRA emerged as a result of Neal Knox and his fellow Gun
Rights Advocates forcing the NRA to change for the better.

And we appreciate the changes that resulted in the NRA / NRA-ILA to
start fighting back against Gun Control instead of contributing to it like
had been done in the past, much to our chagrin when we look back.

Improving the NRA to increase membership and fighting effectiveness
against the Tyrannical Anti-2A Forces Massed against us is a concept
that I think we can all agree on.

But, as always, the Devil is in the Details.


Noble
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  #74  
Old 04-24-2019, 12:33 PM
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Here's a question:

The NRA and supporters often claim that high membership numbers help their lobbying efforts. Then why not offer a "basic" membership for free? You wouldn't get any perks or benefits, no membership card or anything. You'd just be saying, "yeah, I agree with the NRA and want to be included in the gun owner count when politicians are considering gun control." It would be cheap, almost free market research, and massively boost their lobbying power.

I know the NRA needs money to fund their efforts also, but frankly they're not likely to get a much higher donation base than they currently have. If their claims about the advantages of a large member base are true, a free membership should benefit them.
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Old 04-24-2019, 2:24 PM
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FREE! Then just open the membership halls to ANTIFA........Blombergites and Soro's sodomites!

Dumbest suggestion I have ever read!


Mayhaps we ought to comprise the BOD from Moms demanding action or Gabbys group!
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Old 04-24-2019, 2:55 PM
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After prop 63 I'm not interested in the NRA

$50 for a business card and a chinese bag, hat, knife or other trinket. But wait, theres more... buy raffle tickets to win a truck and atv and boat and 17 guns- 9 of them cant come to CA though

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...ine_Ban_(2016)

Scroll down about halfway to the campaign finance section.

The anti's out spent us 4.5 million to 1.1 million to beat us 60/40 at the ballot
1.06M of the 1.1M came from cpra and grassroots efforts.
$95,000 came from the NRA.

Not even 100k in a 5 million dollar fight, yet the NRA can dump 55 million on a presidential campaign?
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Last edited by Cuda440; 04-24-2019 at 2:59 PM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AragornElessar86 View Post
Here's a question:

The NRA and supporters often claim that high membership numbers help their lobbying efforts. Then why not offer a "basic" membership for free? You wouldn't get any perks or benefits, no membership card or anything. You'd just be saying, "yeah, I agree with the NRA and want to be included in the gun owner count when politicians are considering gun control." It would be cheap, almost free market research, and massively boost their lobbying power.

I know the NRA needs money to fund their efforts also, but frankly they're not likely to get a much higher donation base than they currently have. If their claims about the advantages of a large member base are true, a free membership should benefit them.
There are all sorts of approaches that could work - nothing wrong with putting out ideas, so long as there's no sensitivity about having them tweaked or critiqued. A basic membership is OK, down side may be that offering basic could cannibalize folks who would have joined fully. Also, the MDA folks would no doubt pounce on "NRA is desperate, they're giving away memberships" and that would lessen the big numbers impact. Finally, do we want NRA chock full of folks who may be OK with AW bans, mag capacity bans, etc?

None of what I wrote is a reason to reject the idea, just to refine and maybe land on something else or a better version of the initial proposal.
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Old 04-24-2019, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
After prop 63 I'm not interested in the NRA

$50 for a business card and a chinese bag, hat, knife or other trinket. But wait, theres more... buy raffle tickets to win a truck and atv and boat and 17 guns- 9 of them cant come to CA though

https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...ine_Ban_(2016)

Scroll down about halfway to the campaign finance section.

The anti's out spent us 4.5 million to 1.1 million to beat us 60/40 at the ballot
1.06M of the 1.1M came from cpra and grassroots efforts.
$95,000 came from the NRA.

Not even 100k in a 5 million dollar fight, yet the NRA can dump 55 million on a presidential campaign?
Bring that through to conclusion.

Code:
Result	Votes	Percentage
Approved Yes	8,663,159	63.08%
No	5,070,772	36.92%
You're assuming correlation = causation. That if we would have just outspent Prop 63 we would have changed the outcome.

Strange because knowing CA, I'm pretty sure we could have spent 3 x the opposition and still lost, then people would be complaining they're wasting money on futile efforts.

Also, you're putting the cart before the horse...I'll give them money after they spend money.
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Old 04-24-2019, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Bring that through to conclusion.

Code:
Result	Votes	Percentage
Approved Yes	8,663,159	63.08%
No	5,070,772	36.92%
You're assuming correlation = causation. That if we would have just outspent Prop 63 we would have changed the outcome.

Strange because knowing CA, I'm pretty sure we could have spent 3 x the opposition and still lost, then people would be complaining they're wasting money on futile efforts.

Also, you're putting the cart before the horse...I'll give them money after they spend money.
Obviously the amount of money spent doesnt directly translate in the voting results, but the amount spent was pitiful anyway. How many people have you encountered that have no clue what prop 63 was about, but would have voted against it? I know a lot of people with guns just now hearing about ammo restrictions and permits. I think its safe to assume if the NRA had given 1 million, it would have doubled our budget and been able to reach and educate a lot more people before the vote.

Ive supported the NRA for 10 years, and all we get to fight for us in return is a Romneyesque wet napkin
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Old 04-24-2019, 4:10 PM
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How do we continue to Grow the NRA?

Your premise is invalid. The goal should be to increase gun awareness/knowledge, the number of owners, and to encourage and expand gun freedom- by further protections and getting unconstitutional restrictions properly invalidated. To those defending the NRA with bumpstucks-- NO, they did not oppose regulation. They actually specifically supported regulating bumpstucks. And guess what that got us? Stop defending that corrupt and worthless organization. Screw the NRA.

To save a long(er) rant

1. Screw the NRA. The NRA is a shady organization that only benefits a few people who are squeezing money out of people who like freedom, by way of falsely purporting to support the Second Amendment. The longer the NRA exists, the more freedom will be lost. The organization needs to just stop existing. They have done a lot to assist legislators to restrict the Second Amendment for many years. Every dollar that goes to the NRA (read: the pockets of a few lying millionaires who don't actually give a crap about the 2ND), is a dollar that doesn't go to actual gun rights groups such as the GOA. IMHO, every dollar the NRA gets is effectively a dollar against the Second Amendment. Screw the NRA.

2. Join and/or support actual Second Amendment groups, such as the GOA, FPC, LEGIO, and others. Screw the NRA.

3. Screw the NRA.

4. If the NRA would like to get back into the good graces of Second Amendment supporters, there are a few things they have to do before hand.
--a. fire the corrupt leaders, and take measures to prevent future corruption.
--b. STOP supporting new regulations!
--c. Stop the waste (the organization is a financial nightmare)
--d. Fight to repeal/overturn/withdraw the GCA, the NFA, the Hughes Amendment, the bumpstock ban, and similar legal issues.
--e. Fight to free CA and other non-free states.
--f. After all that, then maybe I can reconsider. All that seems unlikely, but I'm all for them if they manage to pull it off. Until then...

Screw the NRA.

Last edited by HighCapAssaultOpinionator; 04-24-2019 at 4:15 PM..
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