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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 06-04-2019, 4:19 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
Depends on how you look at it. Currently, none of them are as effective as they should be, but considering the amount of money they have to work with, the GOA is as effective as it can be currently. I believe that if they had the base and income the NRA has, they would be significantly more effective. The NRA has no excuse for being as ineffective as they are.
Effectiveness isn't the issue.

You seemed to agree with mrrabbit's contention that there isn't ANY
true Pro 2A / Gun Rights organization:

mrrabbit:

"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level."


So GOA isn't a "Pro 2A / Gun Rights Organization" according to
mrrabbit and you apparently agree with this assessment.


Noble
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  #122  
Old 06-04-2019, 4:24 PM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Effectiveness isn't the issue.

You seemed to agree with mrrabbit's contention that there isn't ANY
true Pro 2A / Gun Rights organization:

mrrabbit:

"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level."


So GOA isn't a "Pro 2A / Gun Rights Organization" according to
mrrabbit and you apparently agree with this assessment.


Noble
When exactly did I agree with him on that? Seems like you're just assuming things now.
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  #123  
Old 06-04-2019, 5:07 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Again, the NRA:

1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.
4. Cannot become one unless it's willing to lose membership.
5. Has been responsible for some of the biggest gun controls acts and measures nationwide and in states.
6. Continues to argue in court for banning open carry (default exercise) in favor of concealed (regulated as a privilege).
7. Continues to lobby in states for banning open carry in favor of concealed just as it did recently back east.
8. Continues to support and fund politicians and candidates on both sides of the aisle - including anti-gunners and anti-2A as a lobbying organization.

The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization nationwide or at the state level.

=8-(
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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
But, muh NRA! JA says Wayne has been fighting in the trenches against the evil hoards of liberals, fearlessly conquering the gun control agenda and protecting our rights more than anyone else in history. He couldn't possibly be brainwashed into worshiping a false god, could he?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
When exactly did I agree with him on that? Seems like you're just assuming things now.
So why respond the way you did if you disagree with his post ?

Why repeat his post at all ?

Or is it you only agree with his specific Anti-NRA rant, and chose
to ignore his denouncement of all Pro 2A Organizations ?

Why won't you clarify your position ?


Noble
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  #124  
Old 06-04-2019, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
So why respond the way you did if you disagree with his post ?

Why repeat his post at all ?

Or is it you only agree with his specific Anti-NRA rant, and chose
to ignore his denouncement of all Pro 2A Organizations ?

Why won't you clarify your position ?


Noble
His list was in reference to the NRA, which I agree with. He then stated that there are no true pro-2a organizations, which I disagree with. The list he made was not in reference to all 2A groups. My post was mocking the morons who actually believe that Wayne and co actually care about our rights.
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  #125  
Old 06-06-2019, 6:24 AM
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Frito Bandido Frito Bandido is offline
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
The NRA or any other RKBA group is NOT allowed to advertise on the types of media you and other cal gunners seems to believe!
So where are you going to show these defensive gun uses ?

Page after page of NRA?GOP victory's on RKBA but you prefer to miss it all because its not on NETWORK TV where you spend your time. The NRA is not allowed air time at pro sports either.
I am aware that gun advertisers aren't welcome on Network TV. I am not talking about Network TV - the only people who consistently watch Network TV are old people - many of whom already own guns. There's no need to preach to the choir.

Showcasing defensive uses of guns in social media, if well produced and executed in a compelling and persuasive manner meant to appeal to non-shooters, can go viral and take on a life of their own. The focus needs to be on reaching young adults and those with young families - people who can relate to the struggles of building a family and a desire to protect that which they are working hard to build.

There are plenty of gun companies and advertisers on social media. I see advertising for gun companies and gun retailers on my social media every single time I'm online. If you spend any time on social media you would know this - unless you're one of those old people who don't use any social media whatsoever and are out of touch with the realities of how information is disseminated nowadays.

NRATV doesn't count as social media outreach. The content is well produced, but it is also vapid and empty of meaningful substance. It's entertaining, sure, but none of it is compelling in any way that would pique any awareness in the importance of the Second Amendment to folks who aren't already NRA members and shooters. That makes it a complete waste of time & money if your objective is to expand 2A rights. USCCA has content on it's channel that is poorly produced, but hits the right kind of relatable storytelling that can appeal to non-gunners on the importance of self-defense rights. If you took some of the production value seen on NRATV and applied it to the kind of self defense stories showcased on USCCA's channel, it could be very effective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Friends please compare red states like Utah, Texas, Arizona (REPUBLICAN) with New York, California or Illinois (DEMOCRAT) and decide which you like best.

The best strategy we have is to join the NRA and follow NRA voting recommendations and encourage others do to the same.
If my life revolved around guns then yeah, California would be an awful place to live. Thankfully that's not the case - and that's also the case for the overwhelming majority of the people in the state and in the country. Coincidentally, that also the overwhelming majority of the country that we need to reach and educate, and we're not gonna reach them by following the NRA's tried & failed strategy. The only way to protect the Second Amendment is to get people to see and accept the innate value in it, just as they see the value in the First Amendment regardless of political & partisan preference. You're not gonna get that by pushing it as a hyper-partisan issue replete with cringe-worthy scare tactics and fear mongering that are only effective in the NRA's echo chamber.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
BTW the name calling and preaching is tiring to read. Even from a cartoon character that sells a form of corn chip !
How's the view from way up on your high horse? I see you talking down to people all the time. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And if you do come in the kitchen, keep your grubby hands off my Fritos!
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Last edited by Frito Bandido; 06-06-2019 at 6:26 AM..
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  #126  
Old 06-06-2019, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
I am aware that gun advertisers aren't welcome on Network TV. I am not talking about Network TV - the only people who consistently watch Network TV are old people - many of whom already own guns. There's no need to preach to the choir.

Showcasing defensive uses of guns in social media, if well produced and executed in a compelling and persuasive manner meant to appeal to non-shooters, can go viral and take on a life of their own. The focus needs to be on reaching young adults and those with young families - people who can relate to the struggles of building a family and a desire to protect that which they are working hard to build.

There are plenty of gun companies and advertisers on social media. I see advertising for gun companies and gun retailers on my social media every single time I'm online. If you spend any time on social media you would know this - unless you're one of those old people who don't use any social media whatsoever and are out of touch with the realities of how information is disseminated nowadays.

NRATV doesn't count as social media outreach. The content is well produced, but it is also vapid and empty of meaningful substance. It's entertaining, sure, but none of it is compelling in any way that would pique any awareness in the importance of the Second Amendment to folks who aren't already NRA members and shooters. That makes it a complete waste of time & money if your objective is to expand 2A rights. USCCA has content on it's channel that is poorly produced, but hits the right kind of relatable storytelling that can appeal to non-gunners on the importance of self-defense rights. If you took some of the production value seen on NRATV and applied it to the kind of self defense stories showcased on USCCA's channel, it could be very effective.




If my life revolved around guns then yeah, California would be an awful place to live. Thankfully that's not the case - and that's also the case for the overwhelming majority of the people in the state and in the country. Coincidentally, that also the overwhelming majority of the country that we need to reach and educate, and we're not gonna reach them by following the NRA's tried & failed strategy. The only way to protect the Second Amendment is to get people to see and accept the innate value in it, just as they see the value in the First Amendment regardless of political & partisan preference. You're not gonna get that by pushing it as a hyper-partisan issue replete with cringe-worthy scare tactics and fear mongering that are only effective in the NRA's echo chamber.




How's the view from way up on your high horse? I see you talking down to people all the time. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And if you do come in the kitchen, keep your grubby hands off my Fritos!
What social media entities are you talking about?

Ive noticed a trend on social media to not only censor but outright ban conservative individuals and groups.

You are wrong on how much you think democrats value 1A -- they only approve when it's their agenda. Like porn !

If you think social media is so valuable to gun rights why are you not posting self defense stories? Try it and report back on how you got suspended !
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  #127  
Old 06-06-2019, 8:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
What social media entities are you talking about?
YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. Some of those do not allow advertising for the sale of firearms, but they don't restrict news or stories about instances where firearms were used for self-defense, which is what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Ive noticed a trend on social media to not only censor but outright ban conservative individuals and groups.

You are wrong on how much you think democrats value 1A -- they only approve when it's their agenda. Like porn !
Those bans have thus far been limited to the most obnoxiously inflammatory and confrontational personalities who go out of their way to be shocking/offensive. That's not to say the bans are OK - they never are. People have every right to say all the crazy nonsensical garbage they want, it's a free country and it's up to each of us to make up our own mind about what to watch and what to not watch.

The NRA, for as much as it is demonized in the mainstream media, has not been banned. It would be even less likely to suffer a ban if it's messaging was focused on positive human interest stories of when self defense was used to stop crimes and save lives, and simply dropped the brainless chest thumping which only serves to gin up donations from existing members.

The Democrats and Republicans both attack the 1A in whichever way it suits them. Press freedoms are under attack by the current administration - in case you haven't noticed (i.e. Wikileaks). Maybe you're OK with Wikileaks being targetted?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
If you think social media is so valuable to gun rights why are you not posting self defense stories? Try it and report back on how you got suspended !
I already told you there's a couple on the USCCA YouTube channel that have been up for years. And what do ya know? They haven't been banned/suspended, so you can drop that BS argument. I don't have the financial resources to fly around the country and interview these people, then put together well produced videos. Know who does? The NRA. I already gave them a couple thousand bucks - I want them to use that money effectively.
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  #128  
Old 06-06-2019, 8:41 AM
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double post
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  #129  
Old 06-06-2019, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. Some of those do not allow advertising for the sale of firearms, but they don't restrict news or stories about instances where firearms were used for self-defense, which is what I'm talking about.



Those bans have thus far been limited to the most obnoxiously inflammatory and confrontational personalities who go out of their way to be shocking/offensive. That's not to say the bans are OK - they never are. People have every right to say all the crazy nonsensical garbage they want, it's a free country and it's up to each of us to make up our own mind about what to watch and what to not watch.

The NRA, for as much as it is demonized in the mainstream media, has not been banned. It would be even less likely to suffer a ban if it's messaging was focused on positive human interest stories of when self defense was used to stop crimes and save lives, and simply dropped the brainless chest thumping which only serves to gin up donations from existing members.

The Democrats and Republicans both attack the 1A in whichever way it suits them. Press freedoms are under attack by the current administration - in case you haven't noticed (i.e. Wikileaks). Maybe you're OK with Wikileaks being targetted?




I already told you there's a couple on the USCCA YouTube channel that have been up for years. And what do ya know? They haven't been banned/suspended, so you can drop that BS argument. I don't have the financial resources to fly around the country and interview these people, then put together well produced videos. Know who does? The NRA. I already gave them a couple thousand bucks - I want them to use that money effectively.
Here is something for you to post on social media!
https://townhall.com/columnists/john...lives-n1503549

Also if you are an NRA member your monthly magazine has 1or 2 full pages of guns used to protect lives and property. You can re post these too and I hope you do, because its a good idea and tactic !

I hope this helps you further gun rights for each of us.

BTW the obscure links you posted are of interest to almost no one. If the issue of nukes to important. I would have read it on of the several sources I use daily.

One reason California sucks and Arizona doesn't is because they vote smart. They vote republican and NRA recommendations.

Its not a perfect world and picking apart every policy of a friend does not further liberty. It only elects democrat's who will take away every right you enjoy!
Unless of you are an atheist or globalist then your OK !
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  #130  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Here is something for you to post on social media!
https://townhall.com/columnists/john...lives-n1503549

Also if you are an NRA member your monthly magazine has 1or 2 full pages of guns used to protect lives and property. You can re post these too and I hope you do, because its a good idea and tactic !
Yeah I get America's First Freedom every month. Armed Citizen is pretty much the only section worth reading. Rest of it is fluff and fear-mongering that I only read for laughs. The updates on court cases are also good, but they're usually lagging far behind discussions here on Calguns so I skip over that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I hope this helps you further gun rights for each of us.

BTW the obscure links you posted are of interest to almost no one. If the issue of nukes to important. I would have read it on of the several sources I use daily.
Or maybe you're not anywhere nearly as well informed as you think you are - because you willfully choose not to be? One link is from a conservative news site that is presumably not owned by Soros or Bloomberg or whatever other boogeyman that scares you. The other is a report from a House of Representatives committee so that you can inform yourself from primary sources instead of just reading a journalist's opinion on what is news-worthy. You are blatantly saying you're not interested because it's not from your myopic selection of places from which you derive your political opinions. You're putting on a clinic on willful ignorance, ja308. I know I'm the one with a cartoon character avatar, but you're coming off as more of a caricature at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
One reason California sucks and Arizona doesn't is because they vote smart. They vote republican and NRA recommendations.

Its not a perfect world and picking apart every policy of a friend does not further liberty. It only elects democrat's who will take away every right you enjoy!
Unless of you are an atheist or globalist then your OK !
Being well-informed on a wide variety of issues and having a more complete and thorough understanding of policy is not the enemy of liberty, bro. It also doesn't make you an atheist or a globalist. How you made that leap of logic is beyond me.
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  #131  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:00 AM
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You state the NRA engages in "fear mongering " Is it you view that RKBA is not now or has never been under attack ?

I am educated on most issues of importance. The issue you brought up about selling nukes to the Saudi's, if true is beyond my pay grade. In other words there are so many reasons why this might be required or even valuable.
Not sure the democrat controlled House of representatives report is of any value.

Being used as a shill for democrats by taking in their agenda and talking points does lead to democrats getting elected which translates to atheists, communists,gungrabbers and globalist's! Thats why I compared Republican Arizona with democrat california.
This hasn't worked but the godless dems tried 1
https://100percentfedup.com/dem-hous...-of-karl-marx/

BTW your dismissal of Soros influences and agenda mean you really are not very well informed!
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  #132  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:40 AM
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You state the NRA engages in "fear mongering " Is it you view that RKBA is not now or has never been under attack ?
Every amendment of the constitution is under attack, including 2A/RKBA. Pointing that out isn't fear-mongering. What fear-mongering is, is when you exploit those attacks for the purpose of extracting donations in a cynical and disingenuous manner which is only designed to create the illusion of political activism while refusing to actually defend our rights in a comprehensive way.

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I am educated on most issues of importance. The issue you brought up about selling nukes to the Saudi's, if true is beyond my pay grade. In other words there are so many reasons why this might be required or even valuable.

Not sure the democrat controlled House of representatives report is of any value.
Except you're not, bro. The issue is that the news sources you're reading aren't giving you the full story. News outlets will elect to not cover a particular story because it goes against the editorial biases of the publication. You need to diversify your sources because there isn't a single one that will be free of influences one way or another. Just because a given news source doesn't cover a story, doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it's not important.

The only ones who benefit from selling nuclear technology to the Saudis is the military-industrial complex and the Saudis. I'm not saying the Republicans are the only ones making shady deals with authoritarian governments. Hillary Clinton pushed that Uranium One deal which is some top tier political corruption. In any case, I can't imagine any issue that might be more important than keeping nuclear technology out of the hands of the medieval theocratic dictatorship which exports the wahhabiist form of radical islam to the rest of the world. Absolutely nothing good can come of that and anything anyone tries to sell you as to why it might be a good idea is lying to you.

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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Being used as a shill for democrats by taking in their agenda and talking points does lead to democrats getting elected which translates to atheists, communists,gungrabbers and globalist's! Thats why I compared Republican Arizona with democrat california.
This hasn't worked but the godless dems tried 1
https://100percentfedup.com/dem-hous...-of-karl-marx/

BTW your dismissal of Soros influences and agenda mean you really are not very well informed!
By all means, refuse to be a shill for the Democrats. On the same token, refuse to be a shill for the Republicans. Think for yourself, educate yourself, and take everything these crooked MFers tell you with skepticism. Do not take any of them at their word - most of them got where they're at by being frauds.

And BTW, I didn't dismiss the influence of Soros - I simply stated it doesn't affect me. I know how Soros, Bezos, Bloomberg, the Koch Bros. et al basically own the mainstream media and largely control the Overton Window of political and social discourse through a mechanism known as Manufactured Consent. Those kinds of influences occur on both sides of the political spectrum - neither party has a monopoly on it.
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  #133  
Old 06-06-2019, 1:45 PM
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Thought I'd hop back in with a few "reminders":

1. Pointing out what something really is is not an "anti" stance.

It's simply calling a spade a spade...so to speak.

For example, as in my case, I don't donate to the NRA because it's a gun rights organization...

...I donate to the NRA because it's a marksmanship organization.

- Ammo donations
- Ammo transfers at cost
- Purchase round ups at vendors for the NRA

In support of:

Women on Target (statewide)
First Time Shooter (San Jose)
NRA Private Instructors (Bay Area)
Boy Scouts (NRA Instructors)

There are a lot of people out there interested in shooting for the first time - with a very high anxiety level. Somebody has to take care of 'em. And the large majority of those "caretakers" are NRA associated one way or another. I want those people taken care of.


2. Defending the NRA

Quite a few of you keep trying to defend what is going on at the NRA.

Again, unless you're a member of the board, or a "insider" officer very high up in the organization - you're just hanging yourself to dry.

1. YOU are not responsible for the corruption and cronyism that is clearly taking place - YOU don't own it.
2. YOU don't have the authority administratively via policy making, enforcement or public relations to do anything about it.

It is the job of the board and the executives to get in front of it all - and counter, redirect, etc.

It's not YOUR job.

=8-|
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  #134  
Old 06-06-2019, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Thought I'd hop back in with a few "reminders":

1. Pointing out what something really is is not an "anti" stance.

It's simply calling a spade a spade...so to speak.

For example, as in my case, I don't donate to the NRA because it's a gun rights organization...

...I donate to the NRA because it's a marksmanship organization.

- Ammo donations
- Ammo transfers at cost
- Purchase round ups at vendors for the NRA

In support of:

Women on Target (statewide)
First Time Shooter (San Jose)
NRA Private Instructors (Bay Area)
Boy Scouts (NRA Instructors)

There are a lot of people out there interested in shooting for the first time - with a very high anxiety level. Somebody has to take care of 'em. And the large majority of those "caretakers" are NRA associated one way or another. I want those people taken care of.


2. Defending the NRA

Quite a few of you keep trying to defend what is going on at the NRA.

Again, unless you're a member of the board, or a "insider" officer very high up in the organization - you're just hanging yourself to dry.

1. YOU are not responsible for the corruption and cronyism that is clearly taking place - YOU don't own it.
2. YOU don't have the authority administratively via policy making, enforcement or public relations to do anything about it.

It is the job of the board and the executives to get in front of it all - and counter, redirect, etc.

It's not YOUR job.

=8-|
Do you Donate to the NRA-ILA ?


Noble
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  #135  
Old 06-06-2019, 9:47 PM
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Do you Donate to the NRA-ILA ?


Noble
Assuming even an ounce of honest attentiveness on your part, why would you ask a question you already know the answer to?



=8-|
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  #136  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:34 PM
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Do you Donate to the NRA-ILA ?


Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Assuming even an ounce of honest attentiveness on your part, why would you ask a question you already know the answer to?



=8-|
Its a simple question.

With a Simple Answer....

Yes or No ?



Noble
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:53 PM
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Its a simple question.

With a Simple Answer....

Yes or No ?



Noble
*sigh*

=8-(

Can anyone here help Noble?

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  #138  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:56 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
*sigh*

=8-(

Can anyone here help Noble?

Not needed.

Answer the question.



Noble
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  #139  
Old 06-07-2019, 9:10 AM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Not needed.

Answer the question.



Noble

FFS, he literally answered that question in the post you quoted:

Quote:
For example, as in my case, I don't donate to the NRA because it's a gun rights organization...

I donate to the NRA because it's a marksmanship organization.

- Ammo donations
- Ammo transfers at cost
- Purchase round ups at vendors for the NRA
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  #140  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
FFS, he literally answered that question in the post you quoted:
Thank you!

=8-)
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  #141  
Old 06-07-2019, 2:15 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Thought I'd hop back in with a few "reminders":

1. Pointing out what something really is is not an "anti" stance.

It's simply calling a spade a spade...so to speak.

For example, as in my case, I don't donate to the NRA because it's a gun rights organization...

...I donate to the NRA because it's a marksmanship organization.

- Ammo donations
- Ammo transfers at cost
- Purchase round ups at vendors for the NRA

In support of:

Women on Target (statewide)
First Time Shooter (San Jose)
NRA Private Instructors (Bay Area)
Boy Scouts (NRA Instructors)

There are a lot of people out there interested in shooting for the first time - with a very high anxiety level. Somebody has to take care of 'em. And the large majority of those "caretakers" are NRA associated one way or another. I want those people taken care of.


2. Defending the NRA

Quite a few of you keep trying to defend what is going on at the NRA.

Again, unless you're a member of the board, or a "insider" officer very high up in the organization - you're just hanging yourself to dry.

1. YOU are not responsible for the corruption and cronyism that is clearly taking place - YOU don't own it.
2. YOU don't have the authority administratively via policy making, enforcement or public relations to do anything about it.

It is the job of the board and the executives to get in front of it all - and counter, redirect, etc.

It's not YOUR job.

=8-|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Do you Donate to the NRA-ILA ?


Noble
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
FFS, he literally answered that question in the post you quoted:

No, he Literally Did Not.

The NRA and NRA-ILA are two segregated monetary entities:

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is a 501c Non Profit that does
indeed primarily teach firearm safety & competency.

The Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is separate from the
NRA because it does the Lobbying and Actual Work in the "legislative,
political, and Legal arenas:

"Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the
"lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association of America.
ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in
the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess and use
firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution."


So if you want to primarily support "firearm safety & competency" you
donate to NRA.


If you want to support actions to defend the 2A in the "legislative,
political, and legal arenas" you donate to the NRA-ILA.


So mmrabbit can make his claim that the NRA:
Quote:
1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.


And be "technically" correct, because it specifically Ignores the NRA-ILA.

And the same for his Blanket assertion:
Quote:
"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level."


So according to mmrabbit, CRPA, SaF, GOA, VCDL, and of course,
NRA(NRA-ILA) are not true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization.

I can find no support for his wild contention, but plenty of support
against it.

Here is the latest NRA-ILA report for California:


California Legal Update | February 2019
https://www.nraila.org/legal-legisla...gation-report/

Here is a partial list of current California activity:

California and 9th Circuit Litigation Matters

Rhode v. Becerra: Challenge to California's Ammunition Sales Restrictions
Rupp v. Becerra: Challenge to California’s “assault weapon” restrictions

Duncan v. Becerra: Challenge to California's ban on standard capacity
magazines

Villanueva v. Becerra: Challenge to DOJ’s recently enacted “assault weapon”
registration regulations

Flanagan v. Becerra: Challenge to California and Los Angeles' Firearm Carry
Restrictions Prohibitting Both Open and Concealed Carry

Gentry v. Becerra: Challenge to DOJ's Use of DROS surplus to fund APPS

Parker v. California: Vagueness challenge to AB 962's "handgun ammunition"
sales registration requirement and mail order ban

CRPA v. City of Los Angeles: Challenge to Los Angeles' refusal to disclose
public records regarding firearms in law enforcement custody

California and 9th Circuit Amicus and Consulting Support

Pena v. Lindley: California Handgun Roster

Tracy Rifle & Pistol v. Becerra: 1st Amendment challenge to handgun
ad prohibition

NSSF v. California: State Court challenge to California's microstamping
requirements

Rodriguez v. City of San Jose: Challenge to San Jose's refusal to return
seized firearms

National Cases with California Interest

Sessions v. Hatfield: Challenge to federal firearm restriction due to
non-violent, decades-old felony conviction

Grace v. District of Columbia: Challenges Washington D.C.’s “good reason”
requirement for the issuance of a CCW permit



For the complete California Specific Report, follow the NRA-ILA
link provided above.

As far as some of the other Nonsense posted, I will try and address
that later when I have more time.


Noble

Last edited by Noble Cause; 06-07-2019 at 4:33 PM.. Reason: Typo
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  #142  
Old 06-07-2019, 6:22 PM
mrrabbit mrrabbit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
No, he Literally Did Not.

The NRA and NRA-ILA are two segregated monetary entities:

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is a 501c Non Profit that does
indeed primarily teach firearm safety & competency.

The Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is separate from the
NRA because it does the Lobbying and Actual Work in the "legislative,
political, and Legal arenas:

"Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the
"lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association of America.
ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in
the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess and use
firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution."


So if you want to primarily support "firearm safety & competency" you
donate to NRA.


If you want to support actions to defend the 2A in the "legislative,
political, and legal arenas" you donate to the NRA-ILA.


So mmrabbit can make his claim that the NRA:
Quote:
1. Is not a gun rights or 2A organization.
2. Was not founded as such.
3. Never was.


And be "technically" correct, because it specifically Ignores the NRA-ILA.

And the same for his Blanket assertion:
Quote:
"The sad reality is, there really isn't a true "pro-2A" or "gun rights"
organization nationwide or at the state level."


So according to mmrabbit, CRPA, SaF, GOA, VCDL, and of course,
NRA(NRA-ILA) are not true "pro-2A" or "gun rights" organization.

I can find no support for his wild contention, but plenty of support
against it.

Here is the latest NRA-ILA report for California:


California Legal Update | February 2019
https://www.nraila.org/legal-legisla...gation-report/

Here is a partial list of current California activity:

California and 9th Circuit Litigation Matters

Rhode v. Becerra: Challenge to California's Ammunition Sales Restrictions
Rupp v. Becerra: Challenge to California’s “assault weapon” restrictions

Duncan v. Becerra: Challenge to California's ban on standard capacity
magazines

Villanueva v. Becerra: Challenge to DOJ’s recently enacted “assault weapon”
registration regulations

Flanagan v. Becerra: Challenge to California and Los Angeles' Firearm Carry
Restrictions Prohibitting Both Open and Concealed Carry

Gentry v. Becerra: Challenge to DOJ's Use of DROS surplus to fund APPS

Parker v. California: Vagueness challenge to AB 962's "handgun ammunition"
sales registration requirement and mail order ban

CRPA v. City of Los Angeles: Challenge to Los Angeles' refusal to disclose
public records regarding firearms in law enforcement custody

California and 9th Circuit Amicus and Consulting Support

Pena v. Lindley: California Handgun Roster

Tracy Rifle & Pistol v. Becerra: 1st Amendment challenge to handgun
ad prohibition

NSSF v. California: State Court challenge to California's microstamping
requirements

Rodriguez v. City of San Jose: Challenge to San Jose's refusal to return
seized firearms

National Cases with California Interest

Sessions v. Hatfield: Challenge to federal firearm restriction due to
non-violent, decades-old felony conviction

Grace v. District of Columbia: Challenges Washington D.C.’s “good reason”
requirement for the issuance of a CCW permit



For the complete California Specific Report, follow the NRA-ILA
link provided above.

As far as some of the other Nonsense posted, I will try and address
that later when I have more time.


Noble
*sigh*

Guess you really are dense.

=8-(
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  #143  
Old 06-07-2019, 7:17 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
*sigh*

Guess you really are dense.

=8-(
A personal Insult is not a rebuttal.

I guess you just don't have any valid response to back up your
previous statements, as indicated by your refusal to address
my points.


Noble
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  #144  
Old 06-07-2019, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
A personal Insult is not a rebuttal.

I guess you just don't have any valid response to back up your
previous statements, as indicated by your refusal to address
my points.


Noble
You must remember, this was the same mindset that threw a fit because they thought that the NRA Foundation was the same as the NRA and was funded by NRA member dues.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #145  
Old 06-07-2019, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
You must remember, this was the same mindset that threw a fit because they thought that the NRA Foundation was the same as the NRA and was funded by NRA member dues.
Well, with all the recent wave of Misinformation being posted, the
Bullsh*t Asymmetry Principle, aka Brandolini's Law has
been put into Overdrive...

The amount of energy needed to Refute Bullsh*t is
an Order of Magnitude bigger than to produce it.



Noble
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  #146  
Old 06-08-2019, 6:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Well, with all the recent wave of Misinformation being posted, the
Bullsh*t Asymmetry Principle, aka Brandolini's Law has
been put into Overdrive...

The amount of energy needed to Refute Bullsh*t is
an Order of Magnitude bigger than to produce it.



Noble
Even when its refuted with concrete proof, such as you and others have provided. These same people continually dismiss truth and continue the anti NRA narrative.

Could it be a reading comprehension problem or maybe another agenda ?
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Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
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  #147  
Old 06-09-2019, 8:59 PM
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Some comments from NRA BoD Member Karl Malone on the revelations about NRA BoD Members profitting off the NRA.


After learning about the money his fellow board members received, Malone said he was concerned. “If these allegations are correct and 18 board members received pay, you’re damn right I am,” he said. “If it’s correct, the members who pay their dues should be damn concerned, too.”
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Old 06-10-2019, 1:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
A personal Insult is not a rebuttal.

I guess you just don't have any valid response to back up your
previous statements, as indicated by your refusal to address
my points.


Noble
You can list all the cases you want that NRA-ILA, GOA, CGF, FPC, SAF, CGOA, etc., have been involved in. Their lawyers repeatedly push the "open carry can be banned in favor of concealed" argument.

That's not pro-2A or pro-rights behavior.

That simply the behavior of organizations and lawyers with their own "agenda" or "pet peeve".

When you continue to ignore that, and ignore myself and others pointing that out - and then continue with the same spiel you've been posting over and over . . .

. . . you are being dense. But if you don't like that word, I can come up with many others that apply:

Charlatan
Snake
Sophist
Slickster

Those are appropriate labels for people who purposely misrepresent who they are - or purposely misrepresent who OTHER people are, and the products or services they sell or offer.

As I said, I call a spade a spade.

That not anti-NRA or anti-NRA-ILA . . . it's just calling something what it is.

And again, it's the job of the NRA board, executives, directors, etc, to get in front and exercise the PR image of the NRA.

Not yours...unless you are a board member, executive or director.

Are you?

=8-|
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Old 06-10-2019, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
You can list all the cases you want that NRA-ILA, GOA, CGF, FPC, SAF, CGOA, etc., have been involved in. Their lawyers repeatedly push the "open carry can be banned in favor of concealed" argument.

That's not pro-2A or pro-rights behavior.

That simply the behavior of organizations and lawyers with their own "agenda" or "pet peeve".

When you continue to ignore that, and ignore myself and others pointing that out - and then continue with the same spiel you've been posting over and over . . .

. . . you are being dense. But if you don't like that word, I can come up with many others that apply:

Charlatan
Snake
Sophist
Slickster

Those are appropriate labels for people who purposely misrepresent who they are - or purposely misrepresent who OTHER people are, and the products or services they sell or offer.

As I said, I call a spade a spade.

That not anti-NRA or anti-NRA-ILA . . . it's just calling something what it is.

And again, it's the job of the NRA board, executives, directors, etc, to get in front and exercise the PR image of the NRA.

Not yours...unless you are a board member, executive or director.

Are you?

=8-|
Not part of the NRA leadership. NRA Lifetime / Benefactor member.

And your "Purity Test" for what constituents a real Pro-2A organization
doesn't site any specific cases, and also ignores the fact that the NRA
has to work within the confines of the political and judicial realities
to produce results that may start off small, but eventually produce
significant wins.


Means to an End tactic.

Sometimes you have to be flexible in your strategy to get around the
Anti-2A, Anti-Gun establishment that infests numerous states.


Notice how many states started off as NO ISSUE, but with persistent
Help by the NRA/NRA-ILA (and their NRA state affiliates) we now have
Numerous states that allow Constitutional Carry:




Green = Constitutional Carry

Dark Blue = Shall-issue
Lite Blue = May-issue (Shall-issue in practice)
Yellow = May-issue
Red = May-issue (No-issue in practice)




The NRA Supports bringing Constitutional Carry to the States:


Governor Noem Signs NRA-backed Constitutional Carry Bill
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2019...nal-carry-bill

Senate passes 'constitutional carry' bill that Gov. Kevin Stitt will sign.
A NRA supported measure that would allow individuals to carry firearms
without a permit or training is headed to Gov. Kevin Stitt’s desk.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2019...-sign-into-law

Governor Bevin Signs NRA-backed Constitutional Carry
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2019...tutional-carry


When it comes to Politics and understanding how the Political Sausage
is Actually Made, and use that understanding to ACTUALLY GET THINGS
DONE the NRA / NRA-ILA has proven itself to be One of the Best.

Having a Purist "No Compromise" stance Ignore Political Realities:




Older Poll from 2018:



It might make you Feel Good to have a Purist "No Compromise"
Stance, but it ignores Political Reality and ultimately gets very
little done.


Which is why I support the NRA and donate Specifically to the
NRA-ILA and CRPA, to move the needle and get things done
as indicated with the Steady Progress towards Constitutional
Carry.


And despite all the recent upheaval, the best strategy for advancing
2A Rights and winning the 2020 elections is to continue support for:

NRA / NRA-ILA / CRPA
President Trump
Republican Party


That gives us a Better Percentage Chance of Winning then some
other combinations, some of which would lead to disaster.


Noble
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  #150  
Old 06-10-2019, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post

<<<<<< Portions Snipped for Brevity >>>>>>>

That not anti-NRA or anti-NRA-ILA . . . it's just calling something what it is.

=8-|
Speaking of the NRA-ILA, you still have not answered my
very specific question, directed at you several times:

Do you Donate to the NRA-ILA ?


Noble
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  #151  
Old 06-12-2019, 7:40 AM
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Would this be a bad time to remind people the NRA-ILA frequently picks winners like Kirsten Gillibrand? I could name some Florida pols Marion "Cat Lady" Hammer got the ILA to support that voted for gun control and blocked concealed carry reform, worse she was specifically warned about several in advance.
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  #152  
Old 06-12-2019, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Would this be a bad time to remind people the NRA-ILA frequently picks winners like Kirsten Gillibrand? I could name some Florida pols Marion "Cat Lady" Hammer got the ILA to support that voted for gun control and blocked concealed carry reform, worse she was specifically warned about several in advance.
Would this be a bad time to remind people that at the time that the NRA supported Kirsten Gillibrand, she supported the same positions that the NRA did and that she later changed her position. Here is the letter that she sent to the NRA at the time.
https://shared.nrapvf.org/sharedmedi...randletter.pdf

Would it be a bad time to point out that failing to mention this in your post makes you look very dishonest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #153  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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You continue to push people to support the ILA when the more effective means of supporting pro-gun legislation is direct donations to candidates or local pro-Second Amendment groups. That and personality lobbying your state representatives.

As for Gillibrand, how many times does the ILA get a pass for their supported candidates flip flopping? It ain't the first time or even the 30th.
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  #154  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
You continue to push people to support the ILA when the more effective means of supporting pro-gun legislation is direct donations to candidates or local pro-Second Amendment groups. That and personality lobbying your state representatives.

As for Gillibrand, how many times does the ILA get a pass for their supported candidates flip flopping? It ain't the first time or even the 30th.
And you continue with your deceitful and dishonest attacks against the NRA.
It is one thing to offer honest criticism, but that is not what you are doing here.
Your one sided, deceitful post about the NRA-ILA supporting Gillibrand without mentioning her past support for the 2ndA and the NRA proves it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

NRA Benefactor Member
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  #155  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
You continue to push people to support the ILA when the more effective means of supporting pro-gun legislation is direct donations to candidates or local pro-Second Amendment groups. That and personality lobbying your state representatives.


As for Gillibrand, how many times does the ILA get a pass for their supported candidates flip flopping? It ain't the first time or even the 30th.
What are those "more effective" organizations and what have they accomplished?

Gillibrand was pro-gun when she represented NY 20 and that's when NRA supported her. They clearly and publicly no longer support her and haven't for quite some time. So what is the point of bringing her up now, and not telling the full story?

And BTW, Karl Malone, who you speak well of, isn't all that great on the 2nd Amendment. Supports private sales prohibitions and IIRC not too keen on AWs.

If an NRA member as you lately assert in another thread, contact them and vote accordingly. Or form a group of like minded members to do so. If all you do is post here, and that whomever reaches conclusions different than yours must be ignorant, you get nowhere. Your posts hardly read as though from a member who wants the organization to improve.

I listen to Gresham (FM 99.3 in Medford) and he has questions. But they're asked in a tone of gathering information & improvement, not simply tearing down.

https://donate.nra.org/donate

https://www.saf.org/donation-page/

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/

Last edited by dfletcher; 06-12-2019 at 11:27 AM..
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  #156  
Old 06-12-2019, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
What are those "more effective" organizations and what have they accomplished?

Gillibrand was pro-gun when she represented NY 20 and that's when NRA supported her. They clearly and publicly no longer support her and haven't for quite some time. So what is the point of bringing her up now, and not telling the full story?

And BTW, Karl Malone, who you speak well of, isn't all that great on the 2nd Amendment. Supports private sales prohibitions and IIRC not too keen on AWs.

If an NRA member as you lately assert in another thread, contact them and vote accordingly. Or form a group of like minded members to do so. If all you do is post here, and that whomever reaches conclusions different than yours must be ignorant, you get nowhere. Your posts hardly read as though from a member who wants the organization to improve.

I listen to Gresham (FM 99.3 in Medford) and he has questions. But they're asked in a tone of gathering information & improvement, not simply tearing down.

https://donate.nra.org/donate

https://www.saf.org/donation-page/

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/

Yet the NRA BoD loves to keep Karl Malone on the BoD because it keeps a seat filed by someone who if he ever shows up will never rock the boat. Interesting note Malone has never been to a BoD meeting and no one knows if he even was properly accredited as a BoD member.
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  #157  
Old 06-12-2019, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
What are those "more effective" organizations and what have they accomplished?

Gillibrand was pro-gun when she represented NY 20 and that's when NRA supported her. They clearly and publicly no longer support her and haven't for quite some time. So what is the point of bringing her up now, and not telling the full story?

And BTW, Karl Malone, who you speak well of, isn't all that great on the 2nd Amendment. Supports private sales prohibitions and IIRC not too keen on AWs.

If an NRA member as you lately assert in another thread, contact them and vote accordingly. Or form a group of like minded members to do so. If all you do is post here, and that whomever reaches conclusions different than yours must be ignorant, you get nowhere. Your posts hardly read as though from a member who wants the organization to improve.

I listen to Gresham (FM 99.3 in Medford) and he has questions. But they're asked in a tone of gathering information & improvement, not simply tearing down.

https://donate.nra.org/donate

https://www.saf.org/donation-page/

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Yet the NRA BoD loves to keep Karl Malone on the BoD because it keeps a seat filed by someone who if he ever shows up will never rock the boat. Interesting note Malone has never been to a BoD meeting and no one knows if he even was properly accredited as a BoD member.

Notice how your actual questions were not answered.

Why in the world should anyone believe anything that he post when we have to double check his accuracy on everything and keep finding deception, deflection and dishonesty.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #158  
Old 06-13-2019, 9:54 PM
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dfletcher dfletcher is offline
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Notice how your actual questions were not answered.

Why in the world should anyone believe anything that he post when we have to double check his accuracy on everything and keep finding deception, deflection and dishonesty.
Yep. And poor old Karl Malone - went from being touted in one post as a stalwart whose words had importance, to pretty much cut down at the knees in his other.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:43 PM
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/nra-pulls...mcqueen-report

Looks like NRATV is going to be canned, short order. I do hope the few decent personalities land somewhere good.
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  #160  
Old 06-26-2019, 7:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
https://www.foxnews.com/us/nra-pulls...mcqueen-report

Looks like NRATV is going to be canned, short order. I do hope the few decent personalities land somewhere good.
Interested to see if now we'll see a statement come out of some of the on-camera folks like Colion Noir about this whole cluster****.
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