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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2019, 9:22 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Default Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A - Article

Alan Gura, the guy who won us Heller, posted today on his Twitter this article (which he pinned):
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...eed-at-the-nra

Thought I'd share it as this guy is very 2A.
https://twitter.com/alangura?lang=en

Here's the audit for those wanting the real documents:
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...t-FY-2017.html

Here's another source from Ammoland:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...#axzz5lgOBbobh

Last edited by BryMan92; 04-21-2019 at 1:29 PM..
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2019, 9:39 PM
bruce381 bruce381 is offline
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way to long winded for me so whats the short version?
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2019, 10:36 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Basically NRA is hemorrhaging money both by virtue of incompetence, cronyism, and executive greed. The article mentions nothing about gun control, only a breakdown of its financial health from tax returns and interviews.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:10 PM
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A poignant quote that should provide a brief summary:

"If the typical N.R.A. member knew that this is how the organization really works, then there’s no way they would give money.” But Davis felt that the culture of the organization discouraged complaints. “If you’re in a war and your commanders are doing something you disagree with, you don’t just go up and question them.”*

The NRA leadership is in cahoots with Ackerman & McQueen. Together, they create marketing campaigns to promote fear and desperation from gun owners while negotiating with Democrats on gun control. What happened Post-Sandy Hook:

"At the time, N.R.A. lobbyists were negotiating with federal lawmakers over potential regulations. The organization maintained friendly relations with several Democratic legislators, including Mary Landrieu, a senator from Louisiana. According to a former staffer, the ad caused Landrieu and others to “freak out,” nearly ending those relationships. “Ackerman never cleared that ad with us,” the former staffer recalled. “We had no oversight over Ackerman McQueen.”*

The NRA is dysfunctional. An outside for-profit corporation controls public-relations while the internal legislative divison (according to the article) were "compromising" our rights away.

The crucial question: who really controls the NRA? It's certainly not the members or the board. And while the Democrats would love nothing to dismantle the organization, it's alarming that an retired IRS agent who oversaw tax-exempt enterprises would say, "There is a tremendous range of what appears to be the misuse of assets for the benefit of certain venders and people in control.” Owens added, “Those facts, if confirmed, could lead to the revocation of the N.R.A.’s tax-exempt status”—without which the organization could likely not survive.

It reeks of corruption, scandal, and greed. Their sole purpose is to extract donations from gun owners. Why else would a NRA insider who worked in the fundraising department say,
“They’re a for-profit organization, trying to do things that would bring more money to them,” he said. “They have completely different intentions than a nonprofit should have, which is for the common good.”

The point? Don't be so **** lazy and ignore a "long-winded" article about the organization that supposedly "fights on the frontlines" for our rights. The first quote I provided is proof; gun owners are so ignorant and complacent that we would rather stick our head in the sand than reform the NRA. The organization as it stands now is dangerous to the public's conception of gun culture, the gun debate, and to gun rights. We should be concerned.

Last edited by jyc; 04-19-2019 at 12:12 AM..
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  #5  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce381 View Post
way to long winded for me so whats the short version?
Apparently there's an alarming lack of oversight regarding the awarding of compensation packages and vendor contracts. A shocking amount of money ($40 million last year alone) has been paid to their PR firm over the last 30 years.

Mismanagement has them running at a deficit. But until recently they had not disclosed much information about about compensation, and payments to shell companies of the PR firm. It's not pretty.

The article does mention that NRA ILA is somewhat separate.

Many of these problems were identified over a decade ago, and still nothing has been done. The article paints NRA as something of a paper tiger that's destroying itself.

NRA ILA still needs our support, along with CRPA. It's painful to say it, but we can't jump ship at this critical time.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jyc View Post
A poignant quote that should provide a brief summary:

"If the typical N.R.A. member knew that this is how the organization really works, then there’s no way they would give money.” But Davis felt that the culture of the organization discouraged complaints. “If you’re in a war and your commanders are doing something you disagree with, you don’t just go up and question them.”*



The point? Don't be so **** lazy and ignore a "long-winded" article about the organization that supposedly "fights on the frontlines" for our rights. The first quote I provided is proof; gun owners are so ignorant and complacent that we would rather stick our head in the sand than reform the NRA. The organization as it stands now is dangerous to the public's conception of gun culture, the gun debate, and to gun rights. We should be worried.

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Yes, we have to stick around and try to reform.
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:29 PM
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Yes, we have to stick around and try to reform.
Reform is a viable so long as the membership accepts the nuclear option; it may be necessary to crash and burn the organization to rebuild. Otherwise, what incentive does the NRA have to change? We have no power to reform the leadership. And while we may debate what path we can take to reform the organization, there should be no doubt that the NRA as it stands now must not be allowed to continue in its current structure.

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  #8  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:09 AM
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Wow. I've been hearing whispers for years about the NRA, and haven't re-upped my membership because of some of the things they've done publicly.

This is absolute trash, and Time @ MAC has been right the whole time. We need either the NRA to disseminate and start over properly, or we start over with GOA.

Imagine if they spent that money actually fighting for our rights and not doing backdoor deals with democrats? I'm really disappointed in them. I will not give them a penny until I know for a fact all this lolligagging bull**** is over with.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:31 AM
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So how would we go about reform it's not like we can just demand everyone from the board up get the axe
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Old 04-19-2019, 3:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
Alan Gura, the guy who won us Heller, posted today on his Twitter this article (which he pinned):

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...eed-at-the-nra

Thought I'd share it as this guy is very 2A.

https://twitter.com/alangura?lang=en
There are several warning signs that this is another Anti NRA hitpiece
from the Anti Gun Left.

The New Yorker is a Left Wing publication...
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-yorker

The author is Mike Spies. Name sound familiar ?

Mike Spies is a Staff Writer for The Trace
He specializes in NRA hit pieces.
https://www.thetrace.org/author/michael-spies/

The Trace was started by Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety to
help with his efforts to bring down the NRA.

Also, There has been bad blood between Gura and the NRA over
How the landmark 2A cases were initially handled, so Gura seems
to like painting them in a negative light when he can.

Finally, Mr Gura has our respect for Winning two landmark cases
for the 2A, but he is not infallible.

He was Dead Wrong about Trump:

https://reason.com/2016/08/01/is-sco...-support-trump
Quote:
Alan Gura
Attorney at Gura PLLC and adjunct Professor of Law at Georgetown University

Donald Trump has effectively identified the horrific prospect of Hillary Clinton appointing at least one and perhaps several Supreme Court justices, to say nothing of the lower courts. But shall we entrust that task to an insecure lunatic, a fascist caudillo, an autarkist, a proud ignoramous and conspiracy theorist, the aspiring leader of a "Workers' Party" who plays footsie with racists and anti-Semites and might well be a Russian agent? I have no illusions about what Hillary would do to the federal bench. Sad! But there is something deeply contradictory about the notion of electing a power-hungry strongman on the theory that he'll appoint judges that respect and enforce constitutional limits on government. Did Hugo Chavez appoint great judges? Did Putin, Mussolini, or Erdogan? Would it have mattered had they sort-of kinda suggested that they would?

As much as I care about the courts, worrying about jurisprudential doctrine is a luxury for people living under basically free and stable governments, for people who have access to food and toilet paper. And absolutely nothing in Trump's history suggests that he'd honor his proposed judge list or otherwise pick decent judges, while each of his proclamations indicates that the Supreme Court would be among the least of our concerns under his regime. True, the Trump gamble—that he'd be a figurehead who'd delegate authority to responsible people, or be resisted by the bureaucracy and media (or, laughably, by that stiffest-spined creature, the Republican Congress), while hewing to a judicial selection principle anathema to his personal brand—might pay off. Should Trump win, I'd at least delight in Hillary's loss, and fervently hope that he'd prove me wrong on every count. But I wouldn't bet my country on it.
If we had followed Mr Guras advice, and not supported Trump, it
Would have been an unmitigated disaster for our Nation.

Until more research into the veracity of this article is done, I
would advise everyone to take it with a skeptical grain of salt.



Noble
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  #11  
Old 04-19-2019, 4:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
There are several warning signs that this is another Anti NRA hitpiece
from the Anti Gun Left.

The New Yorker is a Left Wing publication...
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-yorker

Noble
No question, the article is an NRA hit piece. But this time, it appears the NRA provided the ammo.

I would encourage everyone to read that article in the OP and decide for themselves. It does not seem to be the usual lefty trash… Rather, it cites recently released facts about their finances. Facts which are very unflattering, if true.
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Old 04-19-2019, 5:22 AM
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Wow. I've felt for a long time that the NRA has been locked in a quagmire of existence and fighting the good fight. I believe that they have not been aggressive enough, but I am highly ignorant when it comes to the intricacies of the war to restore our 2A.

17 pages min is my bet
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2019, 5:26 AM
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There is no reason LaPierre needs to be paid $1M a year.
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Old 04-19-2019, 8:02 AM
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how does the supposed lawsouite against Acerman? the PR company fit in?
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2019, 9:07 AM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
There are several warning signs that this is another Anti NRA hitpiece
from the Anti Gun Left.

The New Yorker is a Left Wing publication...
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-yorker

The author is Mike Spies. Name sound familiar ?

...

Until more research into the veracity of this article is done, I
would advise everyone to take it with a skeptical grain of salt.



Noble
Yes, it is important understand the bias of the author (and the website) and the bad-blood between Gura and the NRA, but you are still welcome to help debunk or dispel any of the *specific points* laid out in the article. A broken clock can right. The NRA clearly needs to clean up its act if it wants to stay solvent.

Last edited by BryMan92; 04-19-2019 at 10:11 AM..
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2019, 9:59 AM
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The NRA does some terrific things and has a worthy mission.

Yeah and Sears was a great retailer... who got complacent and couldn't recognize the need for reform until it was too late.

If you love someone you don't ignore their self-destructive habits... you help them find the change they need. Covering up the waste and abuse only prolongs the situation. Get it out in the open, institute reforms and DEAL with the problem directly. Yeah change is painful and a few folks will need to adopt a new standard of living... voluntarily or not. The othe option is watching the NRA implode just like Sears from their unwillingness to face and make the hard choices.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:50 AM
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There is no reason LaPierre needs to be paid $1M a year.
I heard a year or so ago that he was making closer to $10M a year. Not to mention the private planes and expensive dinners. No reason he and the other higher ups should be making that much money, especially when they're always talking about how the NRA could fall if they don't get more money. None of this is new though. The NRA has frequently supported gun control so they could raise more money to "fight for your freedom". People keep saying we need to become members and vote for change. The NRA board is just as corrupt as the government is, you aren't going to make any changes they don't want. Sometimes, it's better to just jump ship and let it sink. The GOA is what the NRA pretends to be, and if it was getting the kind of money the NRA is, we could be seeing some real progress on 2A rights.
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Old 04-19-2019, 3:19 PM
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headline

LEFTIST ANTI NRA HIT PIECE IN NEW YORKER.


FUNDED BY BLOOMTURD.


NRA LOBBYISTS, actually talk to some PRO-2A DEMS


POSTED ON THE VERY DAY IN HISTORY WHEN OUR NATION WAS BORN.

WAIT FOR IT
















BECAUSE OF GUN CONTROL


Nothing to see here citizens.
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Old 04-19-2019, 4:34 PM
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There is no reason LaPierre needs to be paid $1M a year.
Article says his overall compensation is way more than 1 million.

Heck, Dana Loesch makes a million per year...
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Old 04-19-2019, 4:34 PM
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One article from the New Yorker and an anti-gun organization leads one to the conclusion NRA is in trouble?

Of the 18 posts I'd like to know who is an NRA member and who is not? Of those who are not, since we don't get your help I'm not sure why attention should be paid to your criticisms. And since so many assert NRA is ineffective, why would they care if it went away? Concern the free ride may be ended?

The article is a hit piece. Why mention Dana Loesch is formerly of Brietbart? Or that Colin Noir is not the fellow's real name? Why omit that some of the article is taken from pleadings in the NY insurance case - do we expect NRA to assert "no harm, no foul" while fighting the state of NY in court? And why not mention the NY prohibits NRA from providing insurance under the same theory they do allow carriers to provide auto insurance?

The author states "I have seen" NRA tax returns. Why not include them with the article?

Wayne Lapierre makes $1M a year? So what.

The article is long on commentary and weak on substance. Organizations spend money to fund raise? Well that's an anecdotal shocker.

NRA has tax exempt status, one would presume that means they've passed IRS muster. Yet the article quotes a fellow citing "transgressions" and that the tax status "could be" affected. Evidently his supposition carries more weight with some than IRS reality.

So far as just an "anti-gun bias" that's like suggesting the Klan has only an anti-black bias. And it is important to note the source - here it is:

https://www.thetrace.org/

Replete with references to Columbine and Newtown, and more anti-gun propaganda. They're about as even handed as Stormfront on race relations.

If one believes their conclusions about NRA how can one dispute what they say about the 2nd Amendment?

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-19-2019 at 5:15 PM..
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Old 04-19-2019, 4:48 PM
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Nothing to see here citizens.
I strongly disagree. It's a hit piece, and you should be a bit skeptical, but I think you're looking at it wrong.

Napoleon (may have) said: "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." The author/readers presumably think that attacks on the NRA will cause it to collapse. They could also cause it to be reformed and improved.

The allegations made in the article don't seem far-fetched. If you've followed the recent troubles with the SPLC, it will sound all too familiar. They may or may not be true, but this sorta stuff happens in big charitable organizations.

If they are true, what then? I like GOA more than NRA myself, but I'm not suggesting people necessarily jump ship. The issues described in the article can be fixed by internal reforms instigated by the kind of people who (according to the article) were skeptical and demanding accountability from the start. This article may be exactly the kind of support they need. If the NRA is really mishandling its money as described, such a shakeup means more money for core mission expenses, and perhaps the repair of any justly-deserved reputation damage they've suffered.

At the end of the cold war, Gorbachev was trying to reform Soviet society to make it less repressive. He was being frustrated by the establishment, including much of the military. Then some crazy German dude named Mathias Rusk flew a little Cessna plane into Russia and landed in Red Square. This made the military look bad and allowed Gorbachev to get rid of his opponents and institute his Perestroika reforms. Basically, the New Yorker can be our Rusk.
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Old 04-19-2019, 5:03 PM
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I strongly disagree. It's a hit piece, and you should be a bit skeptical, but I think you're looking at it wrong.

Napoleon (may have) said: "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." The author/readers presumably think that attacks on the NRA will cause it to collapse. They could also cause it to be reformed and improved.

The allegations made in the article don't seem far-fetched. If you've followed the recent troubles with the SPLC, it will sound all too familiar. They may or may not be true, but this sorta stuff happens in big charitable organizations.

If they are true, what then? I like GOA more than NRA myself, but I'm not suggesting people necessarily jump ship. The issues described in the article can be fixed by internal reforms instigated by the kind of people who (according to the article) were skeptical and demanding accountability from the start. This article may be exactly the kind of support they need. If the NRA is really mishandling its money as described, such a shakeup means more money for core mission expenses, and perhaps the repair of any justly-deserved reputation damage they've suffered.

At the end of the cold war, Gorbachev was trying to reform Soviet society to make it less repressive. He was being frustrated by the establishment, including much of the military. Then some crazy German dude named Mathias Rusk flew a little Cessna plane into Russia and landed in Red Square. This made the military look bad and allowed Gorbachev to get rid of his opponents and institute his Perestroika reforms. Basically, the New Yorker can be our Rusk.
Valid points. I would just add one need not make an "either/or" choice regarding gun rights organizations. Nothing wrong with belonging and contributing to both:

https://home.nra.org/

https://gunowners.org/

I manage to support both, despite making less than Wayne Lapierre ….

Last edited by dfletcher; 04-19-2019 at 5:16 PM..
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Old 04-19-2019, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
One article from the New Yorker and an anti-gun organization leads one to the conclusion NRA is in trouble?

Of the 18 posts I'd like to know who is an NRA member and who is not? Of those who are not, since we don't get your help I'm not sure why attention should be paid to your criticisms. And since so many assert NRA is ineffective, why would they care if it went away? Concern the free ride may be ended?

The article is a hit piece. Why mention Dana Loesch is formerly of Brietbart? Or that Colin Noir is not the fellow's real name? Why omit that some of the article is taken from pleadings in the NY insurance case - do we expect NRA to assert "no harm, no foul" while fighting the state of NY in court? And why not mention the NY prohibits NRA from providing insurance under the same theory they do allow carriers to provide auto insurance?

The author states "I have seen" NRA tax returns. Why not include them with the article?

Wayne Lapierre makes $1M a year? So what.

The article is long on commentary and weak on substance. Organizations spend money to fund raise? Well that's an anecdotal shocker.

NRA has tax exempt status, one would presume that means they've passed IRS muster. Yet the article quotes a fellow citing "transgressions" and that the tax status "could be" affected. Evidently his supposition carries more weight with some than IRS reality.

So far as just an "anti-gun bias" that's like suggesting the Klan has only an anti-black bias. And it is important to note the source - here it is:

https://www.thetrace.org/

Replete with references to Columbine and Newtown, and more anti-gun propaganda. They're about as even handed as Stormfront on race relations.

If one believes their conclusions about NRA how can one dispute what they say about the 2nd Amendment?
long time NRA member here. While the article may have a slant, it does cite specific financial information that has been unavailable until now. That information is hard to ignore and paints a troubling picture of waste and self-dealing. If you think the information the article cites is not accurate, that'a your opinion.
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Old 04-19-2019, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
long time NRA member here. While the article may have a slant, it does cite specific financial information that has been unavailable until now. That information is hard to ignore and paints a troubling picture of waste and self-dealing. If you think the information the article cites is not accurate, that'a your opinion.
And do you know for a fact that the financial information have not been edited to paint a less than truthful picture? While I don't believe the NRA is perfect in any way and could do many things better, this article reeks of propaganda.
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Old 04-19-2019, 7:34 PM
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GEICO used too be an unassuming company that offered discounts to government employees because they were good risks. USAA used to be an unassuming company that offered discounts to veterans and their families because they were good risks.

Now they are typical corporate behemoths, profits before service.

The grifters get a hold of something and figure how to maximize profits while maintaining the political veneer of the initial mission. Efficient and effective government regulation (not leftist overregulation) is needed to minimize organizational/corporate corruption, theft and malfeasance.
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Old 04-19-2019, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
long time NRA member here. While the article may have a slant, it does cite specific financial information that has been unavailable until now. That information is hard to ignore and paints a troubling picture of waste and self-dealing. If you think the information the article cites is not accurate, that'a your opinion.
We'll disagree on those points, all have our opinions. But I appreciate being responsive to the "NRA member" question which, I'm supposing, most others aren't and won't say. An organization owes a responsibility to its membership and contributors only and nothing to others.

Folks like yourself who are in NRA should, it seems to me, contact NRA and let your POV be known.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:26 PM
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dfletcher from post #20

Quote:
Of the 18 posts I'd like to know who is an NRA member and who is not? Of those who are not, since we don't get your help I'm not sure why attention should be paid to your criticisms. And since so many assert NRA is ineffective, why would they care if it went away? Concern the free ride may be ended?

Very aptly noted sir. And BTW, I've been an NRA member since 1973, and became a Lifer in 1979.

Many here appear to be what I consider "2A Welfare Cases". They *****, moan, and keyboard whine, when they lose "privileges", that others pay to support as "rights".
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:02 PM
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Of those who are not [NRA members], since we don't get your help I'm not sure why attention should be paid to your criticisms.
Those who wish to fail must first prevent their friends from helping them.
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:40 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Here's the audit for those wanting the real documents:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...t-FY-2017.html

Sure someone here could take a deep dive.
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  #30  
Old 04-20-2019, 7:34 AM
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I watch the NRA channel and have 1st hand knowledge of what they do and IM in 100% support !

BTW they havnt asked me for money in decades but I still contribute.
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  #31  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
Here's the audit for those wanting the real documents:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...t-FY-2017.html

Sure someone here could take a deep dive.
Well, I'm off to the gun store and didn't dive deep. But I see an organization with about $200M in assets and $170M in liabilities. Each down about $10M from the previous year.
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  #32  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
Alan Gura, the guy who won us Heller, posted today on his Twitter this article (which he pinned):

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...eed-at-the-nra

Thought I'd share it as this guy is very 2A.

https://twitter.com/alangura?lang=en

Here's the audit for those wanting the real documents:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...t-FY-2017.html

Sure someone here could take a deep dive.
.....................
The writer is Mike Spies. Please do some research on Spies. He’s a rabid gun-hater. He writes for website called thetrace.org, an extremely leftist website.

He’s a contributor for Rolling Stone magazine(very far left), Mother Jones(extreme left), and the New Yorker(left).
Spies has been writing anti-gun hit pieces for years. I wouldn’t put even the tiniest bit of credibility in this guy. His hatred for guns is totally out of control.

BUT......the thing that makes me very, very sad is that Alan Gura is forwarding a piece by Spies. Surely Gura must know something about this guy? And all these years, I thought that Gura was one of the good guys.
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  #33  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I watch the NRA channel and have 1st hand knowledge of what they do and IM in 100% support !

BTW they haven't asked me for money in decades but I still contribute.
I suppose it's to be expected from the New Yorker and Trace. Interesting that no one questions the timing of the article, coinciding as it does with NRA suing NY over its CCW restrictions and SCOTUS granting cert. One has nothing to do with the other ..... sure.

What we ought not expect, but are routinely subject to, is the apparent exuberance of some gunowners (we'll suppose they're gunowners for the sake of discussion, rather than poseurs) taking stock in and reporting such things. That they're not of the membership is I suppose par for the course.
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  #34  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:36 AM
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^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Agreed.
It's unseemly, tacky, and suspicious for any true pro-2a supporter to seemingly take pleasure in an anti-gun activity.
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  #35  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:48 PM
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I am not a forensic cpa by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been around audits and annual reports a fair bit. Perhaps I missed it, but nothing in the audit report stands out as problematic. The Spies hit piece throws around, completely out of context, money numbers that look way large and shocking to the average person. But in the realm of national organizations running national advertising campaigns? Perhaps not at all out of line. I mean, 30 seconds on the Superbowl costs over $5 Million, and that's just to run it, doesn't include production costs. Beto O'Rourke spent over $79 Million on the failed senate bid, and that was just one district in Texas. Perhaps not directly relevant to the point, I agree, but it does illustrate the type of fiscal horsepower we are up against. And I must admit I am pretty impressed with the quality and persuasiveness of the nationally run NRA TV adds in the last few years. I bet those national add campaigns are way expensive, what do you think? Seems like the NRA may well be getting their money's worth.

The real point behind all this is the political power of the NRA. The power arises from the solid voting block of NRA members. At times the NRA has, and still can, deliver campaign deciding votes. Mike Spies and his handlers want to destroy that power by sowing distrust to split up that block. Reading the posts it appears Mr. Spies and company are making progress.
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  #36  
Old 04-20-2019, 1:24 PM
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"There is no enemy as strong as the enemy within"

Pacrat said that on this day in history. You can quote him if you wish.

Leftist media hit pieces designed to divide our ranks are nothing new folks.
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  #37  
Old 04-20-2019, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Well, I'm off to the gun store and didn't dive deep. But I see an organization with about $200M in assets and $170M in liabilities. Each down about $10M from the previous year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
.....................
The writer is Mike Spies. Please do some research on Spies. He’s a rabid gun-hater. He writes for website called thetrace.org, an extremely leftist website.

He’s a contributor for Rolling Stone magazine(very far left), Mother Jones(extreme left), and the New Yorker(left).
Spies has been writing anti-gun hit pieces for years. I wouldn’t put even the tiniest bit of credibility in this guy. His hatred for guns is totally out of control.

BUT......the thing that makes me very, very sad is that Alan Gura is forwarding a piece by Spies. Surely Gura must know something about this guy? And all these years, I thought that Gura was one of the good guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I suppose it's to be expected from the New Yorker and Trace. Interesting that no one questions the timing of the article, coinciding as it does with NRA suing NY over its CCW restrictions and SCOTUS granting cert. One has nothing to do with the other ..... sure.

What we ought not expect, but are routinely subject to, is the apparent exuberance of some gunowners (we'll suppose they're gunowners for the sake of discussion, rather than poseurs) taking stock in and reporting such things. That they're not of the membership is I suppose par for the course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THBailey View Post
I am not a forensic cpa by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been around audits and annual reports a fair bit. Perhaps I missed it, but nothing in the audit report stands out as problematic. The Spies hit piece throws around, completely out of context, money numbers that look way large and shocking to the average person. But in the realm of national organizations running national advertising campaigns? Perhaps not at all out of line. I mean, 30 seconds on the Superbowl costs over $5 Million, and that's just to run it, doesn't include production costs. Beto O'Rourke spent over $79 Million on the failed senate bid, and that was just one district in Texas. Perhaps not directly relevant to the point, I agree, but it does illustrate the type of fiscal horsepower we are up against. And I must admit I am pretty impressed with the quality and persuasiveness of the nationally run NRA TV adds in the last few years. I bet those national add campaigns are way expensive, what do you think? Seems like the NRA may well be getting their money's worth.

The real point behind all this is the political power of the NRA. The power arises from the solid voting block of NRA members. At times the NRA has, and still can, deliver campaign deciding votes. Mike Spies and his handlers want to destroy that power by sowing distrust to split up that block. Reading the posts it appears Mr. Spies and company are making progress.

And the Truth is starting to bubble up from the Anti-NRA Innuendos.

I have read hundreds, if not thousands of anti-gun articles over the years,
and not a Single One was factually correct and told the Truth.

This article will be No Different, especially since we KNOW the source
was Anti-2A Minions of Bloomberg, The Trace and Mike Spies,
which I pointed out in post# 10 of this thread.

That said, lets ASSUME that the article is somehow correct
in all its dirty implications....

The NRA still managed to basically Save the 2nd Amendment
by figuring out, way ahead of everyone else, that Trump was
the one to support for the Presidency. Trump will once again
be speaking at the National Rifle Association's annual convention
on April 26. That alone sends a strong message across America.

Because of the NRA Strategy, we have:
  • Pro 2A Gorsuch to SCOTUS
  • Pro 2A Kavanaugh to SCOTUS
  • Pro 2A Justice to replace RBG at SCOTUS (Good Chance of)
  • 9th Circuit is being redone with Pro-2A Constitutionalists
  • Trump continues to appoint Pro Constitution Judges to lower courts

The List Above, Alone by itself, totally justifies
supporting the NRA / NRA-ILA.


GOA didn't get this accomplished, the NRA did by getting Trump
elected and using their access to the President to influence
outcomes favorable to the 2A.

And I have nothing against Gun Owners of America, I like their Pro-2A
Rhetoric, and I think the organization is full of Patriotic Americans.

But the Cold, Hard, Truth of the matter is they simply Do Not have
the Political Influence the NRA has, and so my support and donations
are usually directed to the NRA-ILA and CRPA.


If your willing to believe a Anti-NRA Propaganda Hit Piece produced
by Bloomberg's Anti-2A Minions, with a historical record of NEVER
being Truthful or factually correct, then maybe you should learn to
be a Lot More Skeptical.

Any problems the NRA has will be worked out, just like it has worked
out in the past. We have a Lot of Dedicated people at the NRA and
I would put my faith in them Way Before I would believe Anything
coming from Bloomberg's Minions.

And lets NOT FORGET FREEDOM WEEK,
Brought to you by the NRA and CRPA.


Despite any problems the NRA MIGHT have, abandoning them
just before the 2020 Elections will hand the Anti-2A Zealots a
Tremendous Victory.

I am a Proud Lifetime / Benefactor NRA Member.

I Welcome you to Stand With Me in Defense of the Constitution.




Noble
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  #38  
Old 04-20-2019, 4:13 PM
BryMan92 BryMan92 is offline
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Another piece from Knox’s son which addresses the New Yorker:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...#axzz5lgOBbobh
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  #39  
Old 04-20-2019, 4:30 PM
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https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...#axzz5lgOBbobh[/QUOTE]

From the article:

"The upshot of that battle was that Wayne won, Dad lost, and the fast-and-loose money games continued and just got worse. Charlton Heston was brought in to bump Dad from the leadership, and Wayne’s compensation rose rapidly from about $250,000 a year to almost $1,000,000.00. In the latest available IRS report from 2017, LaPierre’s total compensation was reported at $1.4 million, or about $117,000 per month, and a couple of years before that, he also got a distribution from his retirement fund of about $4 million, for a total compensation of more than $5 million that year."

Not much slant in that article, right?

Non-members and poseurs certainly spending alot of time and going out of their way to spread negative information from partisan and anti-gun sources. I guess that's easier than digging in to those numbers.

Will Moms Demand Action be offered for comment next?
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  #40  
Old 04-20-2019, 5:06 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
BUT......the thing that makes me very, very sad is that Alan Gura is forwarding a piece by Spies. Surely Gura must know something about this guy? And all these years, I thought that Gura was one of the good guys.
it is possible that there is some truth to the claims. I have read other articles about how the NRA is treated like a fiefdom by those involved.

Still; since the author is such an anti I would be skeptical...
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