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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-10-2019, 2:27 PM
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Default What is the "Militia of the United States"???

I am shocked at how many gun owners do not know this and therefore do not have this information at their fingertips when discussing the 2nd Amendment in the gun control debate...

For my friends unclear on who the "Militia of the United States" is, HERE is current Federal Law on the issue...and its not "just" the national guard:

10 U.S. Code § 246.Militia: composition and classes

a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246
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Old 09-10-2019, 2:39 PM
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"Well-Regulated" would not suit all "able-bodied males", etc.

Good luck getting the AntiFa *****birds to obey orders of drill sergeants, etc.

Airsoft pirates, etc., ditto.

Maybe all relatively mentally stable prior service/retired, maybe some farmers, folks in the trades, etc. would be generally useful, given health issues, but not much else.
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Old 09-10-2019, 6:17 PM
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they should add women and expand the age range.
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Old 09-10-2019, 6:27 PM
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we are...militias are formed from the civilian population in times of need.
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Old 09-10-2019, 7:18 PM
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It was not the 1st continental army who routed the Redcoat army on April 19 1775.

Richard Henry Lee "A militia when properly formed include all people except for a few public officials" IIRC
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Old 09-11-2019, 9:22 AM
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I wonder if anyone has considered the purpose of "the militia" and applied that purpose to the mouthings from the anti-gun left who believe that "ordinary citizens shouldn't own weapons of war".

The militia clause exists for a reason. But when political beliefs are more important than the Constitution, the enumerated rights therein are cast aside in favor of selective talking points and false promises of nirvana.

And the ignorant sycophants and believers who are unaware of their own heritage and Rights lap it up.
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Old 09-11-2019, 9:25 AM
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I wonder if anyone has considered the purpose of "the militia" and applied that purpose to the mouthings from the anti-gun left who believe that "ordinary citizens shouldn't own weapons of war".

The militia clause exists for a reason. But when political beliefs are more important than the Constitution, the enumerated rights therein are cast aside in favor of selective talking points and false promises of nirvana.

And the ignorant sycophants and believers who are unaware of their own heritage and Rights lap it up. Worse, those who try and fight for our side are just as ignorant and unaware.

I've yet to hear Dana Loesch mention the purpose of the militia clause when confronting the rabid fear mongerers on this particular subject. And she's the spokesperson for the NRA with, presumably, all this information at her beck and call.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:13 AM
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Informing people they are part of the Militia of the United States is one of my favorites.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:48 AM
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The fascists will simply say that the militia which is "well-regulated" is the National Guard and the Naval component. So those are the only ones which must be allowed access to firearms.

In reality the militia should be pretty much all of us and we should be trained. The local militia could determine if someone is likely to turn murderer and kick them out of the militia and keep them from being armed.

We should be encouraging the militia and training it on a regular basis.
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Old 09-11-2019, 4:35 PM
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I like to point out this fact too. But, the law mentions only men aged under 45 are a part of the militia.

For the sake of playing devils advocate, what about men aged 46 and above? Since they’re no longer legally considered militiamen, do they lose their 2A rights? What about women? Do they have no 2A rights to begin with since they aren’t a part of the militia? What would you say to an anti-2A individual if they asked you questions like these?
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Old 09-11-2019, 4:38 PM
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Militia clearly means "Civilian" vs Army "of the government".

The term Army was common term in the late 1700s. But was not used,
because Founders wanted to insure freedom supported by Armed Civilians.
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Old 09-11-2019, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
The fascists will simply say that the militia which is "well-regulated" is the National Guard and the Naval component. So those are the only ones which must be allowed access to firearms.

In reality the militia should be pretty much all of us and we should be trained. The local militia could determine if someone is likely to turn murderer and kick them out of the militia and keep them from being armed.

We should be encouraging the militia and training it on a regular basis.
They can say all they want but there are 3 classes of soldier:

1. Standing Army (Active&Reserve Military)
2. Organized Militia (National Guard)
3. Unorganized Militia (Men not in either of the above by age and able bodies)

This is spelled out in the OP towards the bottom.
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Old 09-22-2019, 7:07 AM
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https://nutfieldgenealogy.blogspot.c...-of-white.html
"
55 year old marksman, warrior Hezekia Wyman was so effective at killing Redcoat troops he got the nickname" Death on the pale horse."
Guess no one ever told him about the age restriction !
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2019, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Ono View Post
Founders wanted to insure freedom supported by Armed Civilians.
And then the government they created now wants those citizens to not be armed.
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2019, 7:57 AM
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This country was created by men and women of every color, age, and creed which why our founding documents are written in the manner they are. Any man or woman who can prop himself or herself up and hold a weapon is a citizen soldier. this country was settled by people of all ages and senior citizens held their own. when it comes to defending life against tyrants there are no age or any other limits if you desire freedom. It is not any simpler than that.
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Old 09-22-2019, 8:21 AM
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"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
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Old 09-22-2019, 8:39 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Whittemore
78 year old militia fighter.

"On April 19, 1775, British forces were returning to Boston from the Battles of Lexington and Concord, the opening engagements of the war. On their march, they were executing American citizens, and were being fired at by American militiamen.

Whittemore was in his fields when he spotted an approaching British relief brigade under Earl Percy, sent to assist the retreat. Whittemore loaded his musket and ambushed the British Grenadiers of the 47th Regiment of Foot from behind a nearby stone wall, killing one soldier. He then drew his dueling pistols, killed a second grenadier and mortally wounded a third. By the time Whittemore had fired his third shot, a British detachment had reached his position; Whittemore drew his sword and attacked.[7] He was subsequently shot in the face, bayoneted numerous times, and left for dead in a pool of blood. He was found by colonial forces, trying to load his musket to resume the fight. He was taken to Dr. Cotton Tufts of Medford, who perceived no hope for his survival. However, Whittemore recovered and lived another 18 years until dying of natural causes at the age of 98(see reference notes for explanation regarding ages given).[2][9]
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Old 09-23-2019, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Whittemore
78 year old militia fighter.

"On April 19, 1775, British forces were returning to Boston from the Battles of Lexington and Concord, the opening engagements of the war. On their march, they were executing American citizens, and were being fired at by American militiamen.

Whittemore was in his fields when he spotted an approaching British relief brigade under Earl Percy, sent to assist the retreat. Whittemore loaded his musket and ambushed the British Grenadiers of the 47th Regiment of Foot from behind a nearby stone wall, killing one soldier. He then drew his dueling pistols, killed a second grenadier and mortally wounded a third. By the time Whittemore had fired his third shot, a British detachment had reached his position; Whittemore drew his sword and attacked.[7] He was subsequently shot in the face, bayoneted numerous times, and left for dead in a pool of blood. He was found by colonial forces, trying to load his musket to resume the fight. He was taken to Dr. Cotton Tufts of Medford, who perceived no hope for his survival. However, Whittemore recovered and lived another 18 years until dying of natural causes at the age of 98(see reference notes for explanation regarding ages given).[2][9]
What a courageous citizen Militia member indeed!....definitely someone whom all school kids need to learn of.
Thank you for sharing that.
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:09 AM
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Yes he and many others were brave and committed beyond belief in their quest and subsequent victory for posterity.

I heard about him and many others when we attended an appleseed event in 2006 ! luckily I took notes by writing down a few names.

Since then I ordered a deck of RWVA playing cards that give a paragraph or so on many forgotten hero's of both genders!

https://appleseedinfo.org

Samuel Whittemore of Menotomy is featured on the 10 of spades.
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:23 AM
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^^^^When I read of folks like that, it helps to renew my faith that it is indeed possible to combat tyranny, and that some bloodshed in the process is what got our country going, and may indeed be needed in the future again.
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:35 AM
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And this is why you don't piss off old men. We know how much pain we can endure, know that it's temporary, and will drive on through it.
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Old 09-23-2019, 1:28 PM
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To paraphrase Winston Churchill, "Never have so many owed so much to so few."

A few good men can work miracle but a nation of cowards can only surrender. We may have become that nation of cowards or are those few good men still around even if they have a little gray in their hair? A determined group of snipers can turn a battle around and win a war. in today's world bravery is frowned upon and we need to reverse that in our children.
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Old 09-23-2019, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
It was not the 1st continental army who routed the Redcoat army on April 19 1775.

Richard Henry Lee "A militia when properly formed include all people except for a few public officials" IIRC
Very true...

Lets look at the Make up and History of the Minute Men .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently organized to form well-prepared militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies from the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. They were also known for being ready at a minute's notice, hence the name.[1] They provided a highly mobile, rapidly deployed force that allowed the colonies to respond immediately to war threats.

The minutemen were among the first to fight in the American Revolution. Their teams constituted about a quarter of the entire militia. They were generally younger and more mobile and served as part of a network for early response.

The term has also been applied to various later United States civilian-based paramilitary forces to recall the success and patriotism of the originals.

Last edited by Harry Ono; 09-23-2019 at 2:03 PM..
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Old 09-23-2019, 1:58 PM
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Here is some key items to consider.

Equipment, training, and tactics


Most Colonial militia units were provided neither arms nor uniforms and were required to equip themselves. Many simply wore their own farmers' or workmans' clothes and, in some cases, they wore cloth hunting frocks. Most used fowling pieces, though rifles were sometimes used where available. Neither fowling pieces nor rifles had bayonets. Some colonies purchased muskets, cartridge boxes, and bayonets from England, and maintained armories within the colony.

The Continental Army regulars received European-style military training later in the American Revolutionary War, but the militias did not get much of this. They were better when used as irregulars rather than fighting formal battles in the traditional dense lines and columns, functioning primarily as skirmishers and sharpshooters. When used in conjunction with continental regulars, the militia would frequently fire ragged irregular volleys from a forward skirmish line or from the flanks of the Continental Army, while Continental soldiers held the center.
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Old 09-23-2019, 2:06 PM
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This...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebla View Post
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
I would submit. When the US was concerned of its citizens militia "civilians" not being good with firearms. Uncle Sam formed the DCM (Division of Civilian Marksmanship) arming "civilians with millions of GI rifles pistols and tons of ammunition.
The DCM purpose was to have a ready militia to protect the homeland.

My how things have changed !
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Old 09-24-2019, 4:40 PM
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In reading the 2nd amendment and the constitution. The founders wanted a well trained militia and were fearful of standing armies !

Even today the Army is only financed for a 2 years period. Some reasoning is Militias are useless in conquering or invading other nations. The same cannot be said for regular Army who answer to the political class and will act to whatever command structure orders them !

For a little fun read the court martial of patriot Micheal New for refusing to serve in a foreign army while in USA uniform!

https://www.jefflindsay.com/MichaelNew.shtml
A patriotic American soldier is being court martialed for refusing to wear a United Nations uniform and to serve under a foreign commander. When U.S. Army Specialist Michael New took the oath to defend the United States from its enemies and to uphold the U.S. Constitution, he meant exactly that. He had no idea that he would be asked to ignore that oath in order to serve the United Nations, wearing UN insignia and following orders from a foreign UN commander. But that is exactly what happened in August. Michael New was serving in Germany when he was told that his unit was to be sent to Macedonia for UN "peacekeeping" operations. In Macedonia, he would be expected to take directions from a foreign officer and wear UN garb. His mission heading stated that his unit would act to "make the UN presence known."

news flash today President Trump reaffirmed US sovereignty, told the UN to shove it and democrats started impeachment !
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Last edited by ja308; 09-24-2019 at 4:45 PM..
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Old 09-24-2019, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpage View Post
This...


I would submit. When the US was concerned of its citizens militia "civilians" not being good with firearms. Uncle Sam formed the DCM (Division of Civilian Marksmanship) arming "civilians with millions of GI rifles pistols and tons of ammunition.
The DCM purpose was to have a ready militia to protect the homeland.

My how things have changed !
Really good point!!!

considering President Trump is the greatest friend we have,maybe its time to revisit the DCM . That person known as hilldogs husband changed it to CMP IIRC .
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"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
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Old 09-24-2019, 8:36 PM
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Someone who is not afraid to put in print how they feel is nine line apparel that is veteran owned and on it's clothing tag says, 'It's much more that getting dressed everyday. It is about being proud of who you are. What you wear and how you walk through life. we are relentlessly patriotic: we hold no punches, we don't apologize for our love of country. we are America's next great generation." the closest I found their apparel is Scheel's in reno. I doubt anyone in California will carry the line but it should be supported when possible. A company that is not afraid to show it's love of this country.
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Old 09-25-2019, 7:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpage View Post
This...


I would submit. When the US was concerned of its citizens militia "civilians" not being good with firearms. Uncle Sam formed the DCM (Division of Civilian Marksmanship) arming "civilians with millions of GI rifles pistols and tons of ammunition.
The DCM purpose was to have a ready militia to protect the homeland.

My how things have changed !
In my collection of American Rifleman pertaining to 1941-1945, there are a number of articles and advertisements imploring those seasoned in the use of firearms of all types to extend their knowledge and training to the young men whom are about to go off to military training and then war. Spending time with them on rifle and pistol ranges is very emphatically spelled out, and as I recall some mention about the citizen militia as well.
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Old 09-25-2019, 7:40 AM
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IIRC Admiral Yakomoto when questioned after WW2 why the Japanese did not attack the west coast.
He reportedly said " Because behind every blade of grass, is an Armerican Rifleman"

The founders knew an armed trained citizenry was the best defense against foreign invasion.

News flash President Trump does to as in his speech to the UN. Which is why the internationalist democrat party hates him and us so much !
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Old 09-25-2019, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
IIRC Admiral Yakomoto when questioned after WW2 why the Japanese did not attack the west coast.
He reportedly said "Because behind every blade of grass, is an American Rifleman."
Sorry, no. https://www.azquotes.com/author/16018-Isoroku_Yamamoto

https://www.answers.com/Q/Who_said_i...blade_of_grass

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto
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Old 09-25-2019, 9:39 AM
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Thanx for that as I wasn't certain the quote was accurate.
We take some comfort in that heavily armed and trained citizens in countries that value militia are rarely invaded.

Steven Halbrook did a masterful job in explaining how German generals convinced Hitler to invade huge Russia as opposed to tiny Switzerland. His book Target Switzerland is well written and documented.

This could be attributed to any leader not wanting to face an armed and trained nation of competent shooters.

"Apparently, there is no proof that this was ever said, that is correct. However, it should be noted that Yamamoto spent time in the U.S., attending Harvard for two or more years. He spoke fluent English and had a keen understanding of the industrial capabilities of the United States. He did not want war with the U.S. for this, and possibly other reason. Therefore, while he may not have made this now-famous quote, it is likely that he may have believed it, therefore being a good person to attribute it to."
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:34 AM
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Not to get in the middle on the alleged quote of Yamamoto but i think from what i remember reading as a child it was his spies that told him the Americans on the west coast with rifles were as many as the blades of grass or something to that nature convincing him that storming the west coast was suicide for his troops. in any case the perceived well armed militia may have staved off an attack after Pearl Harbor.
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:28 PM
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I think it only fair to acknowledge some women who fought, helped and furthered our victory against Tyranny under an English King.
http://www.newenglandhistoricalsocie...british-spies/

Ooh Rah ! Prudence !
"Prudence Cummings Wright, Patriot Militia Commander, Captures 2 British Spies..."

"Prudence returned to Pepperell and gathered the women of the town. Then a 35-year-old mother of five, she organized 30 or 40 of them into a militia called ‘Mrs. David Wright’s Guard.’ The youngest, Elizabeth Hobart, was only 17..."
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"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guy’s money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
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"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.

Last edited by ja308; 09-26-2019 at 12:31 PM..
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