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  #1  
Old 01-07-2016, 2:23 PM
kwest10 kwest10 is offline
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Default 1811, 1895, Local PD Officers experience?

Hi All - I've been in process with the feds for awhile now (FBI and DEA) and recently started the process with LASD and CBP. All are covered under different LE authority (obviously) and wanted to get perspectives and your experience if you're so willing. Thanks, Gents.

My background:
Former USMC reservist with vets preference. They upped the percentage due to the increase in my monthly deposit so I need to find out if I'm 30% or below.
Corporate HR drone is what I do for a living so nothing noteworthy that may apply to any agency.
39 years old (40 in Nov) and in relatively decent shape. Passed LASD VPAT and CBP but failed DEA, FBI last year (I was recovering from strep) and am retesting in April. (with vets preference I have until 40 so this is my last shot with the Feds)
My pick would be DEA, US Marshals (currently no announcement), FBI since I'd like to do investigative work. I could achieve this through a local PD after some time in and hopefully going for a Detective spot.

1895 is the lowest paying but no retirement cap if I understand it? Can I move from 1895 into an 1811 role AFTER 40 as a lateral since I'm already "in the system". Other than Air and Marine Interdiction units, is there other "high speed" investigative work?

1811 slightly better pay but the chance of being assigned somewhere else is higher but they apparently try to stick you close to home IF you're coming from a major metro area since you're already used to the high cost of living.

LASD. How do promotions, transfers and lateral moves work? What are typical shifts and rotations like and how long are you assigned?
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2016, 3:05 PM
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Federal and local law enforcement are completely different jobs imo. I could write a book on the differences between the two so you have to research and figure out what works better for your situation.

My experience with feds has been less than impressive. They are great with numbers and stats sitting behind a desk. But in the field they do some pretty unsafe things. The guys I talked to say they sit behind a desk most of the time so they lose their practical skills in the field.

Lasd is a great department, but patrol at the local law enforcement level is a young man's game. By the time you get hired, graduate the academy, get paroled from your custody/court time, and pass field training, you'll probably be closer to 50 than 40 years old.

It can take a toll on the body especially in some of the areas lasd patrols where you will be busy to put it mildly.
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Old 01-07-2016, 3:26 PM
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With the LASD, you have about 250 assignments. After about 6 month - 1 year jail assignment, 2 years of patrol assignment, you can try for different assignments. I have enjoyed many different assignments, and am 22 days from retirement.
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Old 01-07-2016, 6:01 PM
Bunyfofu69 Bunyfofu69 is offline
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Default 1811, 1895, Local PD Officers experience?

Don't get hyped up on 1811 work. Hollywood gives the general public a perspective that's far from the truth.

As an older applicant, I can assure you that the DEA is not the way to go. Drugs are a young mans game, and at the end of the road, no one wants a drug cop after retirement. I left that agency for this very reason.

I remember somewhere, when you get a age waiver with 12D coverage, there is an issue with conversion to 6c coverage.

This is important because the retirement plans dictate the age limits. You may not be able to transfer as 1895 to 1811 as a person without a age waiver.

(In the recesses of my mind I remember someone that had this issue and was stuck with CBP).

The real deal with the federal agencies is that the big names are usually not the best gigs. The smaller less known agencies cherry pick from the big boys.

For example Postal Service is a highly sought after 1811.


If I could go back a decade, I would have joined a local PD. Hands down.

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  #5  
Old 01-07-2016, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bunyfofu69 View Post
Don't get hyped up on 1811 work. Hollywood gives the general public a perspective that's far from the truth.

As an older applicant, I can assure you that the DEA is not the way to go. Drugs are a young mans game, and at the end of the road, no one wants a drug cop after retirement. I left that agency for this very reason.

I remember somewhere, when you get a age waiver with 12D coverage, there is an issue with conversion to 6c coverage.

This is important because the retirement plans dictate the age limits. You may not be able to transfer as 1895 to 1811 as a person without a age waiver.

(In the recesses of my mind I remember someone that had this issue and was stuck with CBP).

The real deal with the federal agencies is that the big names are usually not the best gigs. The smaller less known agencies cherry pick from the big boys.

For example Postal Service is a highly sought after 1811.


If I could go back a decade, I would have joined a local PD. Hands down.

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I got to agree with you that drugs, guns, and money are a young person's game. I also got to agree with you that if knew what I know now 17 years ago, I would have been a local cop.
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2016, 9:38 PM
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One of the guys I worked with at the SO left and went to the FBI. He was back less than 4 years later. He wanted to be back out in the field doing LE work.
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Old 01-08-2016, 1:24 PM
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why is drugs a "young persons" game and exactly who doesn't want a drug cop after retirement? Thanks for the replies gents.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2016, 2:19 PM
Bunyfofu69 Bunyfofu69 is offline
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The operational hours that involve drugs are generally at night. Thats why there is a "night service" check box on search warrants, because the activity tends to be during the wee hours of the morning. Drug investigations are not a M-F 9-5pm schedule. If your young with no family, it's not a problem. As you get older and have a family. Chasing down a doper to flip and use instead of family time becomes a problem.

After retirement, tell me a job that would use the skill set of someone that enforces title 21? Excluding a diversion investigator working compliance?

I'd rather get a certification in Network Intrusion or Computer Forensics, and retire to a gig at Google or Facebook like I've seen many people do. That's the sure play.

I'm not hating on DEA or local narcotics guys at all. They do good work but it's not a real long term thing in my opinion.

As many will tell you, go for the options that have the best retirement pathways for you.

Case and point, my old SAC retired after 27 years of service. He now heads the NFL security program.


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  #9  
Old 01-08-2016, 5:35 PM
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The retirement life is good for the traffic guys who have all the advanced and recon traffic collision training and experience.

They get paid big money by insurance companies to go testify in the civil lawsuit cases.

That being said, I still hate traffic with a passion. I'll take 211 just occurred or domestic violence call before a dui crash.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2016, 9:15 PM
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I have a friend who worked Postal service, she really liked it until she got married. Her husband makes big bucks so she was able to hang it all up. She was only 4"10"... I never understood how she got in.

Is2monaro, I hated traffic also, even if it was just being a USAF cop. I hated domestic's as it was pathetic seeing two people screwing up their lives...

Dui's were easier to me...as long as there was no pain involved.
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  #11  
Old 01-09-2016, 7:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro911 View Post
With the LASD, you have about 250 assignments. After about 6 month - 1 year jail assignment, 2 years of patrol assignment, you can try for different assignments. I have enjoyed many different assignments, and am 22 days from retirement.
Just to add to this.....Custody time your looking at about 1 1/2 to 2 year minimum in a jail assignment. The fastest station right now pulling bodies from custody has over a year and a half wait while waiting for stations down south area have a 5-6 year wait time.
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Old 01-11-2016, 1:57 PM
kwest10 kwest10 is offline
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Not married and no kids so the late nights wee mornings don't bother me. It sounds like some are saying that the local PD work can be a bit taxing for the older guys which would leave the feds as the better choice (physically) but not so much from a practical LE perspective.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2016, 2:17 PM
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It really depends on what you enjoy doing, and what your long term goals are.

I started with a very small, special jurisdiction PD. It was a great place to work, but after just two years there were not any new challenges. I went into the Coast Guard, and then into the CGIS service (our civilian agents were 1811's) and then joined the LASD. During my time with CGIS, I went through the Criminal Investigator's Class at FLETC with a bunch of 1811's from a plethora of agencies.

The simple bottom line is that most 1811 jobs are too narrow, to really sustain a 30 year career without having a case of terminal boredom. My class advisor at FLETC was a supervising Secret Service Agent who had just finished a four year assignment on the Bess Truman protective detail. The FBI is about the only agency with enough variety to keep you challenged all of the way through.

With any federal agency, plan on a lot of moves, especially if you're upwardly mobile. Consider the effects on your spouse and family. At some point they're going to send you somewhere you don't want to go. Des Moines and Newark seem to make that list every time.

LASD kept me challenged with new stuff right up to the day I retired. I especially enjoyed the public contact and the excitement of being a first responder. You don't get that with the federal agencies. The jail assignment is not a negative. You'll learn more about crooks in two years than your fellow officers will ever learn, if you're open to the experience. You have to become accustomed to some lower standards of creature comforts, but it's still not as bad as Newark.

The other plus is that you'll have some geographic stability, except for two deputies in Sacramento and a dozen or so on Catalina Island, you can drive home every day from any assignment.
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Old 01-11-2016, 3:01 PM
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DEA sucks. I work for them. Go local PD unless 99% of the time you like sitting at a desk or getting court orders.
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2016, 4:08 PM
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Go local PD. I'm a current Fed looking to go to a PD as soon as the wife is finished with her Masters. I've seen a lot of coworkers leave for DEA, FBI, USMS, USSS, and others. They usually don't last long and quit for a local or county agency in their hometowns.
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:51 PM
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If you want high speed investigative work, join a LARGE local PD/SO, promote to detective and work a proactive detective unit like narcotics, vice, gangs or robbery. If you really want to be DEA, you can get on NTF(narcotics task force) through a local PD/SO where you work with narc detectives from all the surrounding local LE and DEA. If you do good as a patrol cop, you should be able to promote easier due to having more life experience than the 28 year old patrol cop with the same patrol time. If you're exceptional, you might make detective in 4 or 5 years in the right department.

Who knows, you might love being a patrol cop. Patrol is the tip of the spear. Without patrol there's no need for detectives, sergeants, lieutenants, assistant chiefs or chiefs. They would all be unemployed or sent back to pushing a black and white.
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Old 01-12-2016, 1:59 AM
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Who knows, you might love being a patrol cop. Patrol is the tip of the spear. Without patrol there's no need for detectives, sergeants, lieutenants, assistant chiefs or chiefs. They would all be unemployed or sent back to pushing a black and white.
Too bad that is not something actually realized by many in special units, staff, or even some in patrol! A good crew, good supervisors, and an area ripe with criminal activity is a great place to be a patrol cop and probably the best assignment you can ever have.
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[BTW, I have no problem seeing DEA Agents and drug cops hanging from ropes, but that's a separate political issue.]
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Old 01-12-2016, 4:46 AM
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In my experience feds dont really get to get involved in the action that state LEO do. For example many taskforce ran by feds have a variety of LEO's from different SO's/PD's combined with feds. When something good pops off, the feds are left behind because they have to get cleared from DC to get involved. It was just one example. There is a lot of movement in the local PD's and SO's since the economy crash. Those agencies that have not replaced retirees are now hiring causing a lot of movement throughout the organization. Something you may want to consider is CA DOJ or ABC. They're state jobs so you still have decent bennies and the pay is better than the feds. You can work dope, guns or insurance fraud if thats what you like. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:28 AM
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I'm wondering if a lot of the guys go back to local b/c they want to BE local and not so much the difference in work?
I don't mind the travel or relocation. Granted, going from So Cal to Podunk USA may change my mind.
CA DOJ is a loooong line and I will definitely look into ABC.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:10 PM
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There are definitely those who jump ship for the location that they want. They want to be closer to family or make the wife happy. Others think that the work will be better. I'm hoping for both. There is a HUGE difference in work by Fed LE and local/municipal LE.
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:54 PM
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In my opinion, it breaks down like this:

1. Location
2. Compensation (pay/bennies/perks/retirement)
3. Work

Generally speaking, you will be able to find an organization that will provide you a really solid outcome for 2 of those 3 choices. I feel like I've worked around enough local, state, and FLE organizations to say that it's possible to find all three of those, but it's not easy.

Think less about what you think those organizations can offer, and think more about what you're interested in getting out of a certain agency. Are you looking for long term stability in where you live? Do you prefer 9-5 work? What if you want to start kicking down doors (again?) or something. Do you have a spouse or family you need to think about? They all have an effect on this.

My last assignment gave me a great opportunity to represent my current agency at colleges and career fairs, a kind of recruitment gig more or less. Something I always tried was getting anyone I talked with (and I spoke with people from all walks of life) to go put into words what they were interested in and how it would affect their personal life. This is a really hard thing to do for some people. You may find that more than one agency fits all your needs. Maybe none of them, who knows. There are opportunities in every career track you're describing, so if you think that one agency is a good fit, stick with it.

Last recommendation I have is to talk with people. Go find that Bureau recruiter and ask if you can not only speak with them but maybe another agent and buy them a cup of coffee. Sign up for that ride along. There's no downside for getting lots of different perspectives, especially if you find someone in a similar personal situation.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwest10 View Post
Hi All - I've been in process with the feds for awhile now (FBI and DEA) and recently started the process with LASD and CBP. All are covered under different LE authority (obviously) and wanted to get perspectives and your experience if you're so willing. Thanks, Gents.

My background:
Former USMC reservist with vets preference. They upped the percentage due to the increase in my monthly deposit so I need to find out if I'm 30% or below.
Corporate HR drone is what I do for a living so nothing noteworthy that may apply to any agency.
39 years old (40 in Nov) and in relatively decent shape. Passed LASD VPAT and CBP but failed DEA, FBI last year (I was recovering from strep) and am retesting in April. (with vets preference I have until 40 so this is my last shot with the Feds)
My pick would be DEA, US Marshals (currently no announcement), FBI since I'd like to do investigative work. I could achieve this through a local PD after some time in and hopefully going for a Detective spot.

1895 is the lowest paying but no retirement cap if I understand it? Can I move from 1895 into an 1811 role AFTER 40 as a lateral since I'm already "in the system". Other than Air and Marine Interdiction units, is there other "high speed" investigative work?

1811 slightly better pay but the chance of being assigned somewhere else is higher but they apparently try to stick you close to home IF you're coming from a major metro area since you're already used to the high cost of living.

LASD. How do promotions, transfers and lateral moves work? What are typical shifts and rotations like and how long are you assigned?
I was in the same boat as you back in 2009; however, no military/veteran's preference (which really hurts you in the Federal system). In 2011 I EOD'd into CBP/Border Patrol. Whether it's an 1895 or 1896 (Customs Officer or Border Patrol Agent), both are great careers, as they max out at a GL-12.

The maximum entry age for all "covered" Federal LE is 37 years-old (because mandatory retirement age is 57, and it's a 20-year retirement program); however, the GOV credits military time toward that requirement. So, for example, if you served 5-years, then you have until the age of 42 to EOD.

After at least one year at CBP, you can easily apply for a position at ICE, as either an 1801 (Deportation Officer) or 1811 (HSI/Special Agent). Note: CBP now has Special Agent/Criminal Investigator's, but they are ranked at GL-13/14's, so it'd be quite the accomplishment to get there.

But to answer your question, yes you can definitely "lateral" into an 1811 position, as long as you are currently holding a "covered" position.

As for the 1811's at the DEA or FBI, both are extremely hard to get into. The FBI Agents I know, either had a Master's Degree with no LE experience, or had min. 5-years LE experience and a Bachelor's Degree.

The U.S. Marshals is supposed to release a mass hiring announcement this Spring, but that is just a rumor. If so, everybody and their mother will apply. Last time USMS hired, they only accepted Veteran's Preference applicants.

My recommendation is to run a search agent on USAjobs.gov and search the following keywords: 0083 (Federal Police Officer), 1801 (Inspection/Investigative), 1810 (Investigator), and 1811 (Criminal Investigator). If you had the time, I'd highly recommend DOD Police (0083) for a few years, then start looking at an 1811 position with NCIS (they'd definitely pick you up).

Good luck!
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Old 01-26-2016, 3:39 PM
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Fed LEO here..

You are talking two completely different animals as others have mentioned. If you're willing to move the FBI and DEA is the way to go. With most 1811 positions you will NOT be hired in your applicant area. Exceptions do exist.. for example with DHS (ICE, CBP, BP) it is a lot easier to get stationed along the SW border in Cali.

Bottom line.. if you want action go local. If you want a secure job with good pay go federal. At the end of the day take whatever you can get and make a decision as opportunities pop up.
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Old 01-26-2016, 6:05 PM
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Feds wouldn't know police work if it bit them in their arse. Got a very good friend of mine killed while they were trying to be street cops. They don't know squat about police work. They are excellent investigators, but should leave the rest to real cops.

The LASD right now is a train wreck, but I've had an amazing career with them. Under the new Sheriff, I can only see things getting better. Big hole, but I think we can dig out of it. The politics effecting the local street cop are the worst I've seen in my lifetime. That's actually the toughest part of the job right now. Feds don't feel it as much, but it's still there for them too I'm sure.

Overtime with most locals is off the hook. I made $189,000 last year.

Go local and be a real cop.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:06 AM
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Not a LEO but the Feds on Quantico compared to the locals on NYPD look so much hotter. Personally, if I were you I'd go Fed.

Wyatt, sorry about your friend. Police work and law enforcement is probably one of the most underappreciated jobs out there, especially in this anti-LEO climate of over analyzing split second life and death decisions. Anyway, just THANKS to all LEOs, local, state, and federal for their service and being there when needed.
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Old 01-31-2016, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by WyattandDoc View Post
Feds wouldn't know police work if it bit them in their arse. Got a very good friend of mine killed while they were trying to be street cops. They don't know squat about police work. They are excellent investigators, but should leave the rest to real cops.
I think that is a key difference with many Federal jobs versus local ones.... the Fed's are generally geared towards the investigative side. It's not their job to work a beat and get to know a specific part of the county/city/stretch of highway, respond to routine calls for service, etc. There is definitely a reason the FBI likes people with accounting/business experience as opposed to routine cop work.
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Old 01-31-2016, 3:36 PM
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I have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments here. To each their own. I think the locals have always looked down on the feds and the feds same to the locals. Maybe I'm different. Weather you work for federal, state, county, city or specific, you are all my bothers and sisters in arms. We all do different things but it's all for the same cause...to enforce the law in some way shape or form.

We all ware the badge and gun and I don't think there is any reason to put down any agency just because one may have known a bad apple. Bad apples exist if ALL processions. Statements such as "Feds wouldn't know police work if it bit them in their arse." and "they don't know squat about police work" should be taken with a grain of salt.

I've been a federal LEO for 10 years and I know a lot about "police work". I love working with the public and helping others. I wish I had more of an opportunity to do that where I am now.

With that said, for me, if I could go back in time I would go local PD in a city that has many specialized units (i.e. K9, mounted, bike, beach, maritime, bomb, swat, gangs,
investigations, cyber, community policing, dare, special projects etc.) We just don't have all that in any one federal agency. So it's all about what YOU want to do over the life of your career and where you think YOU can give the most to your country, state, county or city.

Best of luck to you!

Last edited by mhr1981; 01-31-2016 at 3:41 PM..
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2016, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WyattandDoc View Post
Feds wouldn't know police work if it bit them in their arse. Got a very good friend of mine killed while they were trying to be street cops. They don't know squat about police work. They are excellent investigators, but should leave the rest to real cops.

The LASD right now is a train wreck, but I've had an amazing career with them. Under the new Sheriff, I can only see things getting better. Big hole, but I think we can dig out of it. The politics effecting the local street cop are the worst I've seen in my lifetime. That's actually the toughest part of the job right now. Feds don't feel it as much, but it's still there for them too I'm sure.

Overtime with most locals is off the hook. I made $189,000 last year.

Go local and be a real cop.
I was trying to refrain from replying to this one, but just couldn't resist. Okay, now, since you are somewhat uneducated about Federal Law Enforcement, I just have a few facts to point out, without trying to start a pissing match...

Sure, LASD and several other SO's and PD's in Southern California are probably some of the best in the nation. They are also the highest paid. Some of the areas in SoCal require only "highly-experienced" patrol officers, due to the hazards. I guess that's why getting into a local PD or SO is that hard/competitive, it's almost like winning the Powerball. But patrol officers, that's all they do - patrol. The investigations, CSI/forensics, and even traffic control (CHP) in some instances are handled by another department. Your basic CA police officer would have his arse handed to him by the AUSA (Federal Prosecutor) should he/she try to present a case to them.

Some of the cases pumped out by FBI, DEA, ICE/HSI, and the ATF are air-tight and extremely high-quality. Their investigations average anywhere from six months to three years, or longer. Conviction rates are above 85% last time I checked with U.S. DOJ. Like others have said, you just can't compare a Fed Investigator with a basic California Cop. It's apples vs. oranges.

Now as for "real cops," I'd say the general consensus is that Feds are more specialized and don't do basic police work (Traffic enforcement, pursuits, DV's, violent assaults, sexual assaults, homicides, armed robberies, auto theft, etc). That couldn't be any further from true. I'm a former Border Patrol Agent, Federal Police Officer, and current LEO somewhere within DOJ. As a BPA, pursuits are quite common, as are violent assaults, and massive narcotics seizures. A BPA could get a bust in just one day with more narcotics than a City Police Officer or Sheriff's Deputy would see in their entire career. Not to discredit PD or SO, as both have tough jobs and a lot more variables to deal with on a daily basis.

As for Federal Police Officers, have you ever heard of the Bureau of Indian Affairs or BIA? They're equivalent to the Alaska State Troopers. Outside of California, this agency is responsible with almost the entire criminal justice system (law enforcement, corrections, court) on some of the largest Indian Reservations in the US. BIA Police Officers do everything a basic Police Officer or Deputy does, and even more. All with less resources. While with BIA, I can't tell you the amount of times I rolled Code 3 for over an hour to get to a call. If it took me an hour to get there by myself, then my backup is an hour away, right? We took just about every type of call LAPD or LASO would take, however, once again, with less resources. We conducted our own traffic enforcement or DUI stops and didn't hand them over to the Highway Patrol or Troopers (like LASO does in unincorporated areas). Our Special Agents were overworked, and would call in the FBI or ATF only when we needed additional resources (DNA, tracking, etc). These FBI Agents assigned to Indian Country handle the same types of cases City/County Detectives handle, just in a different jurisdiction.

There's also other Federal agencies such as, U.S. Capitol Police, U.S. Park Police, National Park Service Rangers, BLM Rangers, FWS Officers/Wardens, who do a significant amount of "police work" depending on what area they're in. If you don't want to call them cops, fine don't. But when the ***** hits the fan, they'll be the one kicking *** and taking names.

Last edited by OC_NightHawk; 02-05-2016 at 12:49 AM..
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2016, 9:06 PM
kwest10 kwest10 is offline
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Thank you all for the replies. At the end of the day, it's going to be the opportunity that is made available to me that I'll have to decide on. I wish I had all to "choose" from but the reality is that one maybe two opportunities will present themselves as a real opportunity to pursue.
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