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  #81  
Old 05-20-2019, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Who is your friend? Is he a member of AOCDS? Do you have any further evidence?
His friend is Gavin Newsom.

He’s going to dodge this as long as he can so he can continue to rag on LE as long as he can.
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  #82  
Old 05-21-2019, 7:46 PM
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Why is the OP continuing to allow his governor to do stupid sh1t??
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  #83  
Old 05-21-2019, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
Here's the cold hard facts...The overwhelming majority of the rank and file separate themselves from the jackasses who run the associations or unions because those folks do not act in the best interests of the rank and file personnel nor the good citizens of our communities with their endorsements. Cops, generally speaking, are a pretty conservative group as a whole. What I saw before I retired was these youngsters coming into the departments with their more liberal viewpoints and 'what's in it for me' attitudes. Keep in mind that is not the majority of the youngsters but more than prior years.

When you get an old school dog like me (or anyone who has been around for many years) educate these youngsters then sometimes they will also cast aside what the talking heads of an association or union tell them...sometimes not.

One has to remember that cops are a cross section of everyone in the communities. They all have differing likes and dislikes and what is important to them. The younger generation of cops are motivated by things much differently than an older cop who's been around the block a time or ten.
Thank you for your response.
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  #84  
Old 05-23-2019, 8:34 PM
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I'm on a union board. Everyone on the board is pretty far right, young or old. Our membership is (my guess) 60% conservative, 10% liberal, 30% moderate or mostly indifferent to politics. The first rule of Union Endorsements: Endorse a winner. You don't get anywhere endorsing a loser. Newsome was going to win the race no matter what. Cox barely ran an election and there's no money in this state for Republicans. My union did not endorse Newsome and we knew our members would not support that decision. The point of the union is to get people in who will help our cause. Not the personal cause of any one member, but the collective cause of getting us paid fairly and better working conditions. Sometimes we have to endorse people we aren't always happy with because of strategic reasons. The republicans in CA made a lot of enemies crushing our pensions a few years back and it was one of many reasons for the demise. Which as a republican, makes me sad.
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  #85  
Old 05-25-2019, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nobody33 View Post
I'm on a union board. Everyone on the board is pretty far right, young or old. Our membership is (my guess) 60% conservative, 10% liberal, 30% moderate or mostly indifferent to politics. The first rule of Union Endorsements: Endorse a winner. You don't get anywhere endorsing a loser. Newsome was going to win the race no matter what. Cox barely ran an election and there's no money in this state for Republicans. My union did not endorse Newsome and we knew our members would not support that decision. The point of the union is to get people in who will help our cause. Not the personal cause of any one member, but the collective cause of getting us paid fairly and better working conditions. Sometimes we have to endorse people we aren't always happy with because of strategic reasons. The republicans in CA made a lot of enemies crushing our pensions a few years back and it was one of many reasons for the demise. Which as a republican, makes me sad.

Thank you for the response. That all said, endorsing democrats (winners) in Sacramento over the years has gotten both the law enforcement community and soon, the honest law abiding citizens in self defense situations ( you know it will be applied to citizens eventually), a new standard for the use of deadly force with AB392. Despite what the politicians say, this is just the nose of the camel under the tent on this "Social issue" being driven by the BLM and progressive pro criminal democrats.

"Under the agreement made public Thursday, officers will be able to use lethal force only when it is "necessary" and if there are no other options."

"The proposed law also states that an officer's conduct leading up to the shooting will be considered"

"And there's language in the bill that requires police to use other alternatives, such as de-escalation or "less lethal" options, before using deadly force."


I am sure most of you are aware of this as it's been coming down the legislative pike for some time. This is the beginning of the end of self defense from criminals in the state and the first nail in the coffin of California's Castle Doctrine. And unfortunately what happens in California leads the rest of the nation...

I respect the difficult and dangerous job that LEO's do and situations they have to deal with. I don't see how any forward thinking person could want to become a patrol officer in this state any longer with the war on police to protect criminals that the democrat majority are successfully conducting.

I hope you all stay safe out there always but this is sure to embolden the criminals who would do you and my fellow citizens harm and giving dangerous criminals the benefit of the doubt will only endanger us all. California is well and truly becoming the third world county all of its illegal immigrant residents came here to escape...

Churchill's words come to mind thinking about this....
This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”
― Winston S. Churchill


Here is how the liberals at NPR look at it...
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/24/72650...e-deadly-force

Here is a non union boss police viewpoint from a LEO use of force expert;
https://www.policeone.com/use-of-for...tion-rages-on/
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  #86  
Old 05-25-2019, 6:11 PM
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Can we get a mod to lock this? Thread has zero credibility and is giving OP a soapbox to tell LEOs how bad we all are.
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  #87  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:25 PM
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The OP still has not supported his initial statement. Why not?
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  #88  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
The OP still has not supported his initial statement. Why not?
I was told that by a detective with HBPD.

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Originally Posted by esy View Post
Can we get a mod to lock this? Thread has zero credibility and is giving OP a soapbox to tell LEOs how bad we all are.
Please quote me in this thread as saying LEO's are all bad...All I did was question why every LEO (but two) I have met is a conservative pro gun hard on crime conservative and say all the LEO's they work with are too and yet they let their union bosses support the democrats they hate, in the name of the rank and file. I am trying to understand the disconnect.
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  #89  
Old 05-25-2019, 8:09 PM
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Well, after 3 pages you have finally answered the question. So based on the statement of one cop (who is not part of AOCDS), and absent any official statement from AOCDS, do you still believe they supported Newsome? I couldn’t find any official endorsement in anything from AOCDS or Newsome. Don’t you think he would use that endorsement in his campaign?
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  #90  
Old 06-13-2019, 2:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Well, after 3 pages you have finally answered the question. So based on the statement of one cop (who is not part of AOCDS), and absent any official statement from AOCDS, do you still believe they supported Newsome? I couldn’t find any official endorsement in anything from AOCDS or Newsome. Don’t you think he would use that endorsement in his campaign?
The OP has made it abundantly clear that he is not exclusively concerned about the LE unions endorsing Newscum, but that he is concerned with the unions effect on elections in general. Narrowing one's attention to the post title and being dismissive for lack of substantiating it has the appearance of searching for an out. The apparent consternation of OP's objectors is also an indicator that his perspective is generally on Target.
I find the OP's narrative compelling. He is expressing his frustration with law enforcement unions contributing to the decline of Public Safety and civil liberties. Serious issues. Contending that the rank-and-file are not to blame for the actions of their Union is weak. From all the commentary here I have tentatively concluded that the rank-and-file are ignoring their culpability because of narcissism or greed.
I am a law-abiding conservative who regularly defends LE in public conversation when leftists offer their opinions. If/when I and others like me are persuasive in swaying opinion, it makes your jobs safer and less confrontational.
Why in the world did the OP not get responses conceding that he has valid concerns? Because they are, and you guys know this, otherwise you wouldn't be so defensive. We should all be on the same page, as both sides have the utmost respect for the law and those who uphold it. In stark contrast, the politicians that your union helps to elect - do not.

Last edited by isntzen; 06-13-2019 at 3:42 AM..
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  #91  
Old 06-13-2019, 7:11 AM
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I’m sure I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again.

My association and many around me do not support Democrats. So there’s that.

I, personally, haven’t voted for a Democrat in quite some time. So there’s that.

There is still the burden of proof that OCSD’s association supports Democrats.

So, instead of casting a nice blanket over all LEOs, how about actually showing some proof and going directly to the agency themselves? If they are in your area, you are their constituents and have a right to know. Moreso with a Sheriff’s Office since they’re elected.
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  #92  
Old 06-13-2019, 7:25 AM
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How is the OP on target? He specifically accused AOCDS of supporting Gavin along with other Democrats. He has failed to produce any evidence supporting his claim. His post was not about LEO associations in general. He pointed out one group and falsely accused them.
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  #93  
Old 06-13-2019, 9:59 AM
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From all the commentary here I have tentatively concluded that the rank-and-file are ignoring their culpability because of narcissism or greed.
FU on a few different levels - welcome to Ignore. ::click::
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  #94  
Old 06-13-2019, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
I am a law-abiding conservative who regularly defends LE in public conversation when leftists offer their opinions. If/when I and others like me are persuasive in swaying opinion, it makes your jobs safer and less confrontational.
Talk about narcissism.

The fact of the matter is it’s not as cut and dried as the OP and others think it is. While we often disagree with those running our unions and associations, it is they that will have our back when the powers that be decide your the one that needs to be the scapegoat. It’s much easier to discipline an officer or two, then explain to the community or higher that what they did was just and warranted. They are the ones that will make sure your rights are not violated, they will get you legal representation.

In this day and age when wearing a badge means you are walking on political eggshells, your career and your family’s livelyhood is on the line everyday. Are the non-LEO people posting in this thread gonna have your back, no they are not. They might post in a forum ‘oh that’s too bad’ but that’s the extent of it.

Real easy for those not in the crosshairs to say how come you let this and that happen, but I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot they would see it in a different light.
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  #95  
Old 06-13-2019, 5:21 PM
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The fact of the matter is it’s not as cut and dried as the OP and others think it is. While we often disagree with those running our unions and associations, it is they that will have our back when the powers that be decide your the one that needs to be the scapegoat. It’s much easier to discipline an officer or two, then explain to the community or higher that what they did was just and warranted. They are the ones that will make sure your rights are not violated, they will get you legal representation.

In this day and age when wearing a badge means you are walking on political eggshells, your career and your family’s livelyhood is on the line everyday. Are the non-LEO people posting in this thread gonna have your back, no they are not. They might post in a forum ‘oh that’s too bad’ but that’s the extent of it.

Real easy for those not in the crosshairs to say how come you let this and that happen, but I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot they would see it in a different light.
I can see this issue from your perspective and would be inclined to go along with it, if we were experiencing social conditions in CA from decades ago. Today, Demos are openly advocating BLM, repealing the 2nd Amendment, and voting rights for foreign nationals. AB 392 is about to pass and will significantly narrow LE use of deadly force. You guys are “walking on eggshells” largely BECAUSE OF the chit show in Sacramento.

Considering only 44% of the registered voters in CA are Democrats, blame for the current political situation can be applied all around. Nobody has said LE unions and associations are THE problem, but they are certainly not without culpability in the decline here. From a civi’s point of view, it is just particularly frustrating and ironic that collective LE would in any way contribute to the erosion of civil liberties and public safety.

Last edited by isntzen; 06-13-2019 at 5:25 PM..
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  #96  
Old 06-13-2019, 6:15 PM
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I put the OP on ignore years ago. Just a hot headed rabble rouser.
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  #97  
Old 06-13-2019, 6:27 PM
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This thread is long past due for a lock.
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  #98  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Contending that the rank-and-file are not to blame for the actions of their Union is weak. From all the commentary here I have tentatively concluded that the rank-and-file are ignoring their culpability because of narcissism or greed.
There are a few examples of unions/associations who are run by conservative management. The "Unions" suggest who their members should support at the ballot box however, the "Unions" are incapable of voting. The members of the unions are who votes. Sans the conservative union managers, I will tell you with 100% certainty, the overwhelming majority of the membership votes are contrary to what the "Union" suggests.

Since you don't have first hand knowledge of the inner workings and conflicts between union/association heads and the rank and file you wouldn't realize how foolish your comment is.
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I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
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  #99  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:47 AM
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AB 392 is about to pass and will significantly narrow LE use of deadly force.

Considering only 44% of the registered voters in CA are Democrats, blame for the current political situation can be applied all around. Nobody has said LE unions and associations are THE problem, but they are certainly not without culpability in the decline here. From a civi’s point of view, it is just particularly frustrating and ironic that collective LE would in any way contribute to the erosion of civil liberties and public safety.
In reality, AB 392 is a just a feel good measure to appease the loudmouths of our state. It really isn't going to change much as far as the application of deadly force. Certain criterias must already be met before the application of deadly force and this bill doesn't do anything to change that.

Either you refuse to or just don't want to understand that a "Union/Association" per se cannot vote. It is the membership who goes to the ballot box. Sans the examples given in my above post, the membership routinely votes contrary to what the U or A suggests. Believe it or not, that is reality.
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  #100  
Old 06-14-2019, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
I can see this issue from your perspective and would be inclined to go along with it, if we were experiencing social conditions in CA from decades ago. Today, Demos are openly advocating BLM, repealing the 2nd Amendment, and voting rights for foreign nationals. AB 392 is about to pass and will significantly narrow LE use of deadly force. You guys are “walking on eggshells” largely BECAUSE OF the chit show in Sacramento.

Considering only 44% of the registered voters in CA are Democrats, blame for the current political situation can be applied all around. Nobody has said LE unions and associations are THE problem, but they are certainly not without culpability in the decline here. From a civi’s point of view, it is just particularly frustrating and ironic that collective LE would in any way contribute to the erosion of civil liberties and public safety.
Well from an LEO’s perspective it is just as frustrating that 99.9% of the erosion of civil liberties and public safety is because of non-LEO’s. The house is burning down and your wondering if a window was left open.
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  #101  
Old 06-15-2019, 1:33 PM
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Thank you for the response. That all said, endorsing democrats (winners) in Sacramento over the years has gotten both the law enforcement community and soon, the honest law abiding citizens in self defense situations ( you know it will be applied to citizens eventually), a new standard for the use of deadly force with AB392./[/url]
Reasonable Dems, who were voted in with the support of police unions, and heavily lobbied by police organizations on this issue had the bill amended to be non controversial and Republicans and Dems all voted for it. We won on this issue because of unions, and because we work with both sides.
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  #102  
Old 06-16-2019, 3:56 PM
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Reasonable Dems,
^^^^ oxymoron
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  #103  
Old 07-23-2019, 9:00 AM
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Does your association / union endorse democrats in local and state / national elections ?
Nope.

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
I have said my peace. I would just encourage every patriotic LEO to think long and hard about what is being done in YOUR names by YOUR union bosses and ask you to consider taking back your unions by making them accountable to you the union members/ voters.


Never needed to "consider taking back [my] union." It never went away.
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  #104  
Old 07-23-2019, 9:01 AM
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Just my point... the vast majority of LEO's are voting for 2nd amendment, the enforcement of our immigration laws, and public safety in general but somehow there is a huge disconnect between how the rank and file vote and how they let their unions support the weak on crime politicians who have supported and pushed prop47/57, sanctuary state, BLM etc...

You all vote for your union leadership and you all seem to have abdicated your responsibility for how the unions act IN YOUR NAME.
Uh no. Your near constant use of the word "all" in this context has made you FACTUALLY INCORRECT repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
News flash..the campaign money and endorsements from the LEO unions / associations / lobbyists are far more valuable in an election than the individual votes of the membership.
"News flash" Not every LE union is involved in politics. And it's only the largest of LE organizations whose unions have significant power in this arena. They are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
So back to my original question .. if you all vote one way,
It's an absurd proposition, that "All" of any group vote "one way."

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
why do YOU let your unions /associations vote the other with your money and collective endorsements?
Never have. Never would.

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
[b] You all [b] really dont care what is being done in your name do you?
Still harping on "all" I see.
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  #105  
Old 07-23-2019, 9:04 AM
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When your association gets involved in local and statewide politics that effect us all then its actions and the actions and choices of the people who control it and vote for its leadership become fair game for discussion and if appropriate, praise or criticism by every citizen in the state.
Except that your statement that this is going on with "all" LEOs is a lie. The same lie you started out with and the same lie you keep repeating.

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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
My "question" of LEO's... why do the majority of you vote one way
I think that this used to be the case. With the influx of officers with completely different thought processes and value systems, I'm not so sure anymore. What support do you have for this statement?
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  #106  
Old 07-23-2019, 9:04 AM
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Here's something I've written before regarding the ACTUAL power of LE unions

Quote:
Some folks think that police unions have vast power that they wield at the drop of a hat. In truth, most of them are more social than they are political in nature, dealing mostly with internal matters of their LEAs, and negotiations for pay and benefits. Only the very largest of LEAs have unions that could be considered to be "powerful." There are about 12,000 LEAs in the US employing about 477,000 full time officers. That's an average of about 40 officers/department. Given that there are quite a few 'giant agencies' NYPD, LAPD, LASD, for example, that reduces the numbers significantly. Per CBS Interactive Business Network, "It is common to see a police department comprised of fewer than 25 officers …"

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd13ppp.pdf
https://classroom.synonym.com/the-av...-13583335.html
I served as President of my Union for a couple of years, than a couple years more on various board positions. NEVER did we engage in any politicking on the part of the union, it was prohibited by our charter. So these rants that talk about how "all" unions engage in this, are nothing but lies.
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  #107  
Old 08-01-2019, 9:23 PM
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I have muddled my way thru some of this thread and the common theme for a couple of members is to post stuff in violation of the rules of this specialty forum. To make it easy for them I will paste them here:

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READ THESE RULES BEFORE POSTING!

1. This forum is for Calguns LEO members and those who would like to ask questions in a civil manner.

2. This forum is to give our LEO members a place to share their stories, pictures and videos as well as answer serious questions from the membership.

3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum.

4. Post denigrating or insulting our LEO members will be removed and the poster will no longer be able to access this forum.

5. Questions for LEOs should be both civil and serious. Questions like 'Why do you thugs..' will get you removed and possibly banned. Frivolous questions will be deleted.

6. 'Cop Bashing' will NOT be tolerated in this forum at all.

7. In addition to these special rules, the standard rules still apply here as well.

Read these rules and follow them to a "T" or one day you will search for the Leo forum and you will be unable to find it. It won't be available to you to view or post in. If you don't wish for this to occur, then toe the line. This is your only warning. I am not going to post the member's names because when they don't see the forum anymore, they will know it was them who I was referring to.

I will peruse this particular thread now to ensure things are going well. Carry on.
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