Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 10-03-2009, 9:21 PM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Here is a discussion of pc 626.95 (youth centers aka day care) over at the other site. http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/1...tml#post144252

Yes the How to Own a Gun book is incorrect on this point.
I have never read this book but I'm starting to doubt I ever will.
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
  #42  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:03 AM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

No need to wash babies with dirty water in the first place. I'm not saying the book isn't useful, especially to those just starting out, but I think at this point I have the tools I need to stay up on things. CalGuns is an excellent resource and wealth of information.
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.

Last edited by MrClamperSir; 10-04-2009 at 9:06 AM..
  #43  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:14 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Here is a discussion of pc 626.95 (youth centers aka day care) over at the other site. http://www.calccw.com/Forums/legal/1...tml#post144252

Yes the How to Own a Gun book is incorrect on this point.
Unless he changed it to incorrect, I don't think he's wrong in the current version.

My 1999 version has the discussion of youth centers at pp 74-75.

He says
Quote:
If you violate any of the following laws ... 12025, 12031, 417(a)(2) and 417(b) ...

The felony/misdemeanor punishment for this crime is in addition to any punishment you receive for the "underlying" crime of unlawfully carrying or brandishing a gun.
As has been pointed out, licensed under 12050 is an exemption to 12025/12031, and Machtinger knows it and says so in other places in the book.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #44  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:23 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tareva View Post
I agree. But the link in Post #3 is hard to deal with, requiring a tedious reading of all the threads, but the threads are for special circumstances, not general rules. Yes, we need such a thread to cover those special cases, but don't you think we need a sticky at the top of that thread where we keep a running list of all the places, statewide, where we can't carry, updating it occasionally, when state law changes?

The question of, "Where can't I carry" has to be one of the most frequent ones to pop up, especially with new visitors to the site, and it would be nice to have a spot with an accurate, simple list....a condensed digest of places, with *s below showing links for where the applicable laws can be found and studied, and suggestions for further reading.
So, write the article, get a login at the Wiki, and publish!

The format is pretty simple, and I'll help if you have questions.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #45  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:35 AM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Unless he changed it to incorrect, I don't think he's wrong in the current version.

My 1999 version has the discussion of youth centers at pp 74-75.

He says
As has been pointed out, licensed under 12050 is an exemption to 12025/12031, and Machtinger knows it and says so in other places in the book.
So what are you saying, you can't CCW at a youth center?
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
  #46  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:42 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
So what are you saying, you can't CCW at a youth center?
No - if you are licensed, you may carry legally at a 'youth center'.

If you are unlicensed and carry at one illegally, then in addition to whatever penalty you get for 12025/12031, you get a sentence enhancement.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #47  
Old 10-04-2009, 9:45 AM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

That's the way I understand it as well. Thanks.
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
  #48  
Old 10-07-2009, 8:49 PM
flyer898's Avatar
flyer898 flyer898 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Limbo
Posts: 1,937
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Concealed carry is about reasonableness. If someone is impaired for any reason should they be carrying a deadly weapon? With alcohol (where this most commonly arises) if a person voluntarily chooses to impair their judgement is it reasonable they should have deadly force at their disposal? I cannont conceive of any issuing authority taking the position: get drunk, pack a gun - we are OK with what ever happens.

In truth, if any of us considered that we might be in danger, would impairing our ability to react responsibly to the circumstances be reasonable? It is very hard to argue against restrictions on a CCW that go to ability to responsibly exercise the privilege.
  #49  
Old 10-10-2009, 8:42 PM
TurboS600's Avatar
TurboS600 TurboS600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjgunner View Post
Does anyone have a official "list" of places you cannot carry in CA? I have not been able to find a simple document that lists where concealed carry is banned in CA. Courthouses, bars, any fed building I am aware of but what about national/state parks, schools, etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ty423 View Post
I'm pretty sure schools you can't
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
Its actually pretty easy in this state.

The places where you cant because its illegal under state law are State Capitol Grounds, Secure Area of Airports, and Court Houses. However, the airports and the court houses actually set up security so its hard to unknowingly break the law. Really the capitol grounds is the only place you could get jacked up without having to sneak around a metal detector first.

Now the feds have their own special places. Post offices and federal buildings being the key ones. You can get cross ways at either local.

If your issuing authority writes a restriction you need to follow that but its not really the law, its just a rule you follow if you want to stay on the good side of your Sheriff.

Of course anybody that chooses to can post against firearms and/or set up security screening, like at a bar, or a concert or an amusement park. If you skirt security or get caught trying to get through security you're not breaking the law unless you refuse to leave when they find you out and ask you to leave. If you dont go then its a trespassing beef, not a violation of a gun law. Of course if you bring attention to yourself like this too often your issuing authority might get tired of seeing your name.

Schools and courthouses are OK to carry. The same section that exempts LEO (PC 171b (b)) also exempts lawful CCW holders. Bars are banned because it states it on the DOJ application and it is a lawful restriction. Also, the presiding judge of any court can ban weapons in his courthouse. Within the courthouse, his word is law!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tareva View Post
Would this be a fair summary of the places where we cannot carry?

- gun shows
- federal court
- federal buildings (including Post Offices)
- airports (in sterile areas)
- ship terminals (in sterile areas)
- airplanes (in sterile areas)

I'm no expert on this, by any means. But as I read "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail" I tried keeping a list inside the front cover, and the above is what I ended up with. Of course, the above doesn't include any "special" places that could be illegal, depending upon special restrictions imposed by a particular County or City--just the places where it's illegal, statewide.


CCW in this state is sooo confusing! Where you can carry is just as confusing as when you must reveal to LEO that you are packing. There is the law...Then there are local restrictions from the issuing authority...then there are special restrictions for individual CCW holders. It just gets out of control. Tareva's list is a pretty good place to start. If you don't have Machtinger's book, it is a good read and pretty accurate. I glance through it every 3-6 months and keep a copy in my truck for ready reference. Also, everyone who has a CCW should read PC 12025, 12031, 12050, 171b, 171c, 171d, and 171e from beginning to end and make sure you understand them. None of any of these PC sections are particularly long or confusing, but all CCWers should be familiar with what is in them.

YMMV
  #50  
Old 10-10-2009, 8:59 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
Bars are banned because it states it on the DOJ application and it is a lawful restriction.
We've been through this one, too.

It is a legal restriction if the issuer puts it on the face of the actual license.

But it is not a restriction in PC, and the app does not have the force of law.

If the issuer says 'no bars' on the license, then your license is not valid in bars, and you might be carrying illegally, and very easily might get the license revoked even if you don't get arrested and prosecuted.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #51  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:18 AM
flyer898's Avatar
flyer898 flyer898 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Limbo
Posts: 1,937
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post

Also, the presiding judge of any court can ban weapons in his courthouse. Within the courthouse, his word is law!
I disagree. There is a 1997 AG opinion that addresses the question of Deputy District Attorneys carrying guns to their offices in the courthouse. It concludes the judges do not have authority to prohibit this. See 80 Ops. Cal. Atty. Gen. 191.

The analysis comes down to the tension between Code of Civil Procedure section 128 that sets forth the power and authority of judges to control their courtrooms and Penal Code sections 171b and 12050 that respectively authorize certain persons to carry firearms in a courthouse and the issuing authority of a CCW to place reasonable restrictions on exercise of the permit.

The power to restrict permit holders from carrying in the courthouse rests with the issuing authority and not the judges. The analysis in the AG opinion would apply to any CCW permit holder the same way it was applied to Deputy District Attorneys. The AG opinion is very narrow and does not reach to the question of carry in a courtroom.

I do not think Penal Code section 171b prohibits the holder of an unrestricted CCW permit from carrying in a courtroom. I think Code of Civil Procedure section 128 would be interpreted by a court as conferring authority upon a judge to make an order prohibiting any person, including law enforcement officers, from bringing a gun into a courtroom. Unless the particular Judge, or the presiding judge for the county, has made such an order and it has been published or otherwise made known to the CCW permit holder, the conduct is governed by Penal Code sections 171b and 12050.

I don't intend this as legal advice to any person: these are just some thoughts on the current state of the law on this issue. Also, I very much doubt anyone other than a law enforcement officer who is on official business is going to get a gun past the metal detector and into the courthouse. I know the Sheriff's Lt. in charge of courthouse security here does not agree that 171b permits a CCW holder to bring a gun into the courthouse.

Ultimately pushing this issue is a looser; all the issuing authority (County Sheriff) has to do is place the appropriate restriction on the CCW and it is no longer valid in a courthouse.
  #52  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:34 AM
El Gato's Avatar
El Gato El Gato is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kern County
Posts: 1,613
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

As a CCW instructor in my county...and we have a real business that is an actual business and licenses and all the accourtrements thereof.. and having done this for 20+ years....

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts... it is a pleasure to see the discussion and the use of facts/law used to dissect this issue...Nicely done all...I am really glad I found this site some time back... what a pleasure to read.

the point is well taken... if the issuing authority places restrictions upon your license... don't piss off said authority and lose the license...

in Kern... in addition to what is written upon your permit, the following applies to all permits issued by the Sheriff...

While carrying the weapon under the CCW permit, the applicant:

o shall not ingest, inhale, inject or be under the influence of illegal drugs at any time or ingest or be under the influence of alcohol while carrying the weapon.
o Shall not represent self as a peace officer at any time.
o Shall not violate any federal, state, or local law, statute or ordinance.
o Shall not be under the influence of any mind-altering medication, including, but not limited to those labeled with a warning not to operate a motor vehicle or other machinery.
o Shall not impede any law enforcement officer in the performance of their duties.
o Shall not refuse to display or surrender their permits and weapon when requested to do so by a peace officer.
o Shall not unjustifiably display a deadly weapon.
o Shall immediately notify any peace officer with whom the licensee comes in contact with that the licensee is armed and has a permit in their possession.
o Shall abide by the restrictions or limitations placed on the permit.
o This permit does not authorize taking a firearm aboard any commercial aircraft.
o The 4 hour Training Certificates are only good for 60 days. You may take your 4 hour refresher course 60 days in advance, but we are not allowed to renew your permit before 30 days.
o If your permit expires, you will have to start the CCW process all over. There is no grace period, no exceptions.
__________________
Greebo, as a matter of feline pride, would attempt to fight or rape absolutely anything, up to and including a four-horse logging wagon. Ferocious dogs would whine and hide under the stairs when Greebo sauntered down the street. Foxes Kept away from the village. Wolves made a detour. Terry Pratchett

Last edited by El Gato; 10-11-2009 at 11:03 AM..
  #53  
Old 10-13-2009, 6:12 PM
TurboS600's Avatar
TurboS600 TurboS600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

OK, you guys are putting words into my mouth. Never said these things were illegal, the word I used was "banned."

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyer898 View Post
I disagree. There is a 1997 AG opinion that addresses the question of Deputy District Attorneys carrying guns to their offices in the courthouse. It concludes the judges do not have authority to prohibit this. See 80 Ops. Cal. Atty. Gen. 191.

The analysis comes down to the tension between Code of Civil Procedure section 128 that sets forth the power and authority of judges to control their courtrooms and Penal Code sections 171b and 12050 that respectively authorize certain persons to carry firearms in a courthouse and the issuing authority of a CCW to place reasonable restrictions on exercise of the permit.

The power to restrict permit holders from carrying in the courthouse rests with the issuing authority and not the judges. The analysis in the AG opinion would apply to any CCW permit holder the same way it was applied to Deputy District Attorneys. The AG opinion is very narrow and does not reach to the question of carry in a courtroom.

I do not think Penal Code section 171b prohibits the holder of an unrestricted CCW permit from carrying in a courtroom. I think Code of Civil Procedure section 128 would be interpreted by a court as conferring authority upon a judge to make an order prohibiting any person, including law enforcement officers, from bringing a gun into a courtroom. Unless the particular Judge, or the presiding judge for the county, has made such an order and it has been published or otherwise made known to the CCW permit holder, the conduct is governed by Penal Code sections 171b and 12050.

I don't intend this as legal advice to any person: these are just some thoughts on the current state of the law on this issue. Also, I very much doubt anyone other than a law enforcement officer who is on official business is going to get a gun past the metal detector and into the courthouse. I know the Sheriff's Lt. in charge of courthouse security here does not agree that 171b permits a CCW holder to bring a gun into the courthouse.

Ultimately pushing this issue is a looser; all the issuing authority (County Sheriff) has to do is place the appropriate restriction on the CCW and it is no longer valid in a courthouse.
???? OK, I'm confused. Did you just disagree with me, and then prove my point? PC 171b does ban weapons in the courthouse, but establishes exemptions such as LEO, CCW, armed security, evidentiary weapons, etc...however the exemptions are all trumped by PC 171b (b)(2)(B) if you are party to a proceding being heard by the court. So, to review... I DID NOT state that weapons are illegal in a courthouse, I DID state that the presiding judge may ban them from his court.

Your last paragraph cuts to the chase, though...don't piss off the issuing authority. It may not bode well for you when renewal time comes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
We've been through this one, too.

It is a legal restriction if the issuer puts it on the face of the actual license.

But it is not a restriction in PC, and the app does not have the force of law.

If the issuer says 'no bars' on the license, then your license is not valid in bars, and you might be carrying illegally, and very easily might get the license revoked even if you don't get arrested and prosecuted.
As I stated to flyer, I NEVER SAID it was illegal to carry in a bar. "Banned" was the word I used! On the application, page 6 are the listed restrictions on your CCW. In section 6, you signed that you agree to abide by said restrictions. If you are out of compliance with the restrictions, whether or not it is written on the face of the license, then the license is void during that time and you would be in violation of 12025.

The application itself does not have the force of law. However, it is a contract between you and the issuing authority in order for you to obtain a CCW which exempts you from the law (12025) when it is in effect. If you violate the terms of issuance (the contract), the permit does not protect/exempt you from this law and you are in violation. The issuer can put additional restrictions on the license (which must be printed on the face), but you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025. You may not get arrested, but your license will go bye-bye in a New York minute.
  #54  
Old 10-13-2009, 8:27 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
The issuer can put additional restrictions on the license (which must be printed on the face), but you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025. You may not get arrested, but your license will go bye-bye in a New York minute.
You were fine to to here.

You must abide by restrictions on the face of the license to avoid violating 12025. PC 12050
Quote:
(b) A license may include any reasonable restrictions or
conditions which the issuing authority deems warranted, including
restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under
which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be
indicated on any license issued.
You must keep the issuing authority happy to keep the license, whatever 'keeping happy' turns out to mean.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #55  
Old 10-13-2009, 8:52 PM
TurboS600's Avatar
TurboS600 TurboS600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
You were fine to to here.

You must abide by restrictions on the face of the license to avoid violating 12025. PC 12050

You must keep the issuing authority happy to keep the license, whatever 'keeping happy' turns out to mean.
Wait...didn't you just agree with me/prove my point? I'm confused.
  #56  
Old 10-14-2009, 6:43 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
Wait...didn't you just agree with me/prove my point? I'm confused.
No.

You said
Quote:
you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025.
.
Violations of the terms of the the application may lose you your permit, but will not be violations of 12025.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



  #57  
Old 10-14-2009, 8:18 PM
TurboS600's Avatar
TurboS600 TurboS600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
No.

You said .
Violations of the terms of the the application may lose you your permit, but will not be violations of 12025.
Ahhhh....but that is not what I said. I did not say violations of the restrictions were violations of 12025. I said, "you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025."

12025 is the law regarding carrying a concealed handgun, right? So what I was trying to say (and I think we are in agreement here) is that if you violate the terms of the application, the CCW is void. A CCW is what protects you from violating 12025. Ergo, violate the restrictions...CCW is void...if you are carrying at the time you are in violation of 12025 and do not have the protection of the CCW.
  #58  
Old 10-14-2009, 8:34 PM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
Ahhhh....but that is not what I said. I did not say violations of the restrictions were violations of 12025. I said, "you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025."

12025 is the law regarding carrying a concealed handgun, right? So what I was trying to say (and I think we are in agreement here) is that if you violate the terms of the application, the CCW is void. A CCW is what protects you from violating 12025. Ergo, violate the restrictions...CCW is void...if you are carrying at the time you are in violation of 12025 and do not have the protection of the CCW.
Where are you getting this from?
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
  #59  
Old 10-14-2009, 9:40 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
Ahhhh....but that is not what I said. I did not say violations of the restrictions were violations of 12025. I said, "you must abide by the restrictions on page 6 of the app at all times for the CCW to protect you from 12025."

12025 is the law regarding carrying a concealed handgun, right? So what I was trying to say (and I think we are in agreement here) is that if you violate the terms of the application, the CCW is void. A CCW is what protects you from violating 12025. Ergo, violate the restrictions...CCW is void...if you are carrying at the time you are in violation of 12025 and do not have the protection of the CCW.
Sorry - I used an exact quote from your post. If that wasn't what you meant, I have no control.

And I disagree about
Quote:
if you violate the terms of the application, the CCW is void.
That's not accurate, so far as I can tell. It may be cause for the issuer to revoke your license, and at that time - once the license is revoked - your CCW is void.

ETA: You seem to be trying to put legal weight on the application (and its detailed terms), and there is no basis in the Penal Code to do that.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 10-14-2009 at 9:50 PM..
  #60  
Old 11-01-2020, 6:59 AM
NorCalBusa NorCalBusa is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

This thread is due for an update by the smart guys here. IANAM
  #61  
Old 11-02-2020, 2:57 PM
82SC 82SC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 169
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Lots of Good information here.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/res...p/ca-gun-laws/
  #62  
Old 11-02-2020, 4:54 PM
darksands's Avatar
darksands darksands is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 710
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Second sticky thread has some good info.
__________________
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." ---George Orwell on a BBC broadcast, April 4, 1942

"Fast is fine. Accuracy is final. You need to learn to shoot slow, real fast." ---Wyatt Earp
  #63  
Old 11-03-2020, 7:33 AM
five.five-six's Avatar
five.five-six five.five-six is offline
Former cabinetguy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In a cage at the San Diego Zoo
Posts: 34,329
iTrader: 74 / 100%
Default

OK I didn't find a clear answer to this but the polling place is allowed? Assuming it's not in a courthouse or federal building or Post Office.
__________________
We’re ALL GOING TO DIE!

Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?!
  #64  
Old 11-03-2020, 7:59 AM
Dvrjon's Avatar
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,042
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
OK I didn't find a clear answer to this but the polling place is allowed? Assuming it's not in a courthouse or federal building or Post Office.
Yes, unless otherwise prohibited (school, etc.) Look at Post 14.

But, also be aware that most street cops don't know the difference. "No" is easier to enforce.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."

Last edited by Dvrjon; 11-03-2020 at 8:01 AM..
  #65  
Old 11-20-2020, 3:33 PM
PaDanby PaDanby is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A324 View Post
In my immediate circle of ccw holding aged 50 plus friends I don't think there is a single one who is not taking at least one type of medication for some sort of age-related aliment. (heart disease, blood pressure, diabetes, arthritis etc)

Seems to me there even might be a few retired leo's in the group as well.

I guess we are all a bunch of felons?
Are you under the influence or impaired? Then yes you probably are.

If not under the influence or impaired? No
  #66  
Old 11-20-2020, 3:48 PM
NorCalBusa NorCalBusa is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaDanby View Post
Are you under the influence or impaired? Then yes you probably are.

If not under the influence or impaired? No
I believe his (and other's) point is that distinction is not what the law says.
  #67  
Old 11-20-2020, 5:40 PM
tawadc95 tawadc95 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 562
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

1. usconcealedcarry.com
2. handgunlaw.us
3. giffords.org
4. Your permit might have non permissibles listed, Sutter Co. does
5. Ca. CCW Permit application section 4 explains alcohol clearly
6. School zones Ca PC 626.9 & 626.9(c) (5)
7. Federal properties 18 USC 930
8. Some state properties Ca PC 171c (a) (1), there are more than this.
9. Federal parks are permissible in states that allow concealed carry within state parks, Ca does allow concealed carry in state parks so fed parks are permissible within Ca. state boundaries but not within fed owned or leased buildings within the parks, 54 USC 104906(b) and www.parks.ca.gov, Ca PC 26010
10. Read up on states where you will travel before traveling there

Sorry for the length but this should get you to places that go more in depth.

Last edited by tawadc95; 11-20-2020 at 5:43 PM..
  #68  
Old 11-20-2020, 5:47 PM
tawadc95 tawadc95 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 562
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Polling places are not allowed Ca Election Code 18544
  #69  
Old 11-20-2020, 6:06 PM
CenterX's Avatar
CenterX CenterX is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sleep North SFO Bay
Posts: 1,701
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

this thread started in 2009. so many things have shifted in 11 years. heck, 30 years ago a person could drive a car with a loaded handgun on the passenger seat then one day, just like that you became a felon for doing so. I lay odds some women over 80 still believe they can.

too many rules - no survival allowed.
  #70  
Old 11-20-2020, 6:11 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalBusa View Post
This thread is due for an update by the smart guys here. IANAM
Not really - 2009 thread is just too out of date, so I'm locking it.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:10 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy