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  #1  
Old 10-18-2019, 9:36 AM
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Default AR FTF issues...

So I took my new AR (never been fired) out to the range the other day. I broke it down before I took it out, lightly oiled all the usual moving parts, and it still seemed a little stiff, like metal on metal. When I loaded up a mag and chambered the first round, it still felt tight, but I figured it’s just new and will smooth out after a few rounds. The first round fired fine, the spent casing ejected and it seemed to cycle well but when I went to fire the second round, the trigger wouldn’t do anything. No click, nothing. The bolt looked like it was in position. I manually cycled a round and then it fired but did the same thing. I had to manually cycle out a live round after each fired round. Then I saw this:




I’m guessing something is keeping it from going into battery. I’m not forcing anything or having to push/shove a round in when I manually cycle the rifle. I tired multiple mage with the same result, and the same mags worked fine on another AR I was shooting. Next I noticed this:



Seems like a lot of wear for 20 rounds through a new rifle.

I’m nowhere near an AR expert, I grew up shooting handguns, so any advice would be appreciated.

Last edited by SomeGuy75; 10-18-2019 at 9:48 AM..
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2019, 9:37 AM
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Is there a question or description of what happened?
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2019, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by coryhenry View Post
Is there a question or description of what happened?
Sorry I was working on the pics and accidentally posted before I typed lol.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2019, 9:50 AM
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Not sure I'd worry about the charging handle, some of mine are getting worn like that but the firearm works perfect.

Everything smooth in the upper receiver? If you pop the upper off can you drop a round in to the chamber without fighting it?
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:56 AM
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Is the rifle a factory rifle or home build? If home build was it a "complete upper" with head spaced BCG? Does the lower have the correct spring and buffer for the stock type?
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2019, 9:58 AM
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What does the bottom of the bolt carrier look like?

What lower is it? If the mag is riding too high that will be a problem.

Try chambering a round, remove the mag, then fire. Is the trigger live for the next shot after that?
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-18-2019 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuy75 View Post
So I took my new AR (never been fired) out to the range the other day. I broke it down before I took it out, lightly oiled all the usual moving parts, and it still seemed a little stiff, like metal on metal. When I loaded up a mag and chambered the first round, it still felt tight, but I figured itís just new and will smooth out after a few rounds. The first round fired fine, the spent casing ejected and it seemed to cycle well but when I went to fire the second round, the trigger wouldnít do anything. No click, nothing. The bolt looked like it was in position. I manually cycled a round and then it fired but did the same thing. I had to manually cycle out a live round after each fired round.

Iím nowhere near an AR expert, I grew up shooting handguns, so any advice would be appreciated.
I am an AR expert but I have more questions before I can give a diagnosis.
Was the gun cycling a live round into the chamber on it's own after each shot or was it merely ejecting the fired case and closing over an empty chamber?

Was your ammo wolf?

If the chamber was empty, then you are under-gassed which is related to the wolf ammo being too under-powered to properly function a new gun during break-in.

If live rounds were cycling into the chamber and the bolt was not fully closing, that's also under-gassed.
Try some real nato cross stamped brass cased ammo for the first couple hundred rounds and lube the bolt carrier very well.

If the bolt carrier is fully closing, but the hammer was at rest on the carrier, your disconnector is not functioning properly.
This is called hammer follow.
Do a function check of your fire control.
Most common cause of hammer follow is the disconnector spring installed upside down or the disconnector spring not installed at all.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2019, 1:13 PM
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Thanks to everyone for the replies, a little more info:

Was the gun cycling a live round into the chamber on it's own after each shot or was it merely ejecting the fired case and closing over an empty chamber?
*It ejected the spent casing and chambered a new live round.

*Was your ammo wolf?
Yes

If the chamber was empty, then you are under-gassed which is related to the wolf ammo being too under-powered to properly function a new gun during break-in.
*N/A

If live rounds were cycling into the chamber and the bolt was not fully closing, that's also under-gassed.
*This is what I was thinking, but why the damage to the rounds?

Try some real nato cross stamped brass cased ammo for the first couple hundred rounds and lube the bolt carrier very well.
*What brand do you recommend?

*This is a complete AR I purchased as one piece a from a dealer a couple years ago. Not something I pieced together.

Last edited by SomeGuy75; 10-18-2019 at 1:23 PM..
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2019, 1:32 PM
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Just curious what brand AR? BCM, Colt, DD, Noveske, S&W?

I've had cheap PSA uppers that were undergassed. I replaced the barrel and was G2G.
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Old 10-18-2019, 1:34 PM
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Tagged for info.
I would put the upper on a different lower and try both rifles (if possible) to narrow where the issue is. Does the mag lock in place and drop free?

Sorry I am here for the info only. Learn something new every day and your issue is new to me.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2019, 1:43 PM
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If you are over-inserting the mag would that cause it to strip a new round and feed into the chamber and also damage/score the round below it?
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Old 10-18-2019, 1:44 PM
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Wait. Looks like a PMAG. Don't those have tabs to prevent over insertion?
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2019, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuy75 View Post
but why the damage to the rounds?
The bullet damage is from manually extracting/ejecting and would never occur during normal operation as the bullet would have left via the barrel instead of the ejection port.
The case dents are from the carrier and are normal.
Those dents get removed when the case is fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuy75 View Post
*What brand do you recommend?
ATK runs the lake city ammo depot.
ATK also owns the federal brand.
Just make sure the ammo has the nato cross on the headstamp and it should be proper 5.56 ammo.
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Old 10-18-2019, 2:53 PM
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Use better ammo.

Use a different magazine.

Load your mags only half full.

liberally oil the bolt and carrier.

New guns will not be as reliable as guns which have been broken in and the parts mated to each other by use.
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Old 10-18-2019, 3:02 PM
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Looks familiar.

Midway USA sold me some DPMS parts mislabeled in a bag. The buffer, buffer tube and buffer spring would not work together.

In my specific case, the buffer tube was too short -- an AR15 buffer tube on an AR10 build. Very hard to spot. Would do something very similar to what you show.
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Old 10-18-2019, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The bullet damage is from manually extracting/ejecting and would never occur during normal operation as the bullet would have left via the barrel instead of the ejection port.
The case dents are from the carrier and are normal.
Those dents get removed when the case is fired.


ATK runs the lake city ammo depot.
ATK also owns the federal brand.
Just make sure the ammo has the nato cross on the headstamp and it should be proper 5.56 ammo.
But that round sitting on top of the mag is mangled, badly. It is the first thing I noticed. That don’t look normal to me, and it aint buffing out either r

The jacket has been shaved in the forward direction, so it is happening when the bolt is closing. I am of course assuming the round on top of the mag was never chambered/extracted/ejected - I am assuming it was found like that when he dropped the mag before extracting the chambered round. But there is not enough info provided so who knows.

Never seen anything like it, that is why I wondered if the mag is sitting too high or there is some nasty burr on the bolt carrier.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-18-2019 at 7:04 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
But that round sitting on top of the mag is mangled, badly. It is the first thing I noticed. That don’t look normal to me, and it aint buffing out either r

The jacket has been shaved in the forward direction, so it is happening when the bolt is closing. I am of course assuming the round on top of the mag was never chambered/extracted/ejected - I am assuming it was found like that when he dropped the mag before extracting the chambered round. But there is not enough info provided so who knows.

Never seen anything like it, that is why I wondered if the mag is sitting too high or there is some nasty burr on the bolt carrier.
That top round was put there after the bullet damage occurred.
That bullet damage did not occur while the round was IN the magazine.

The shaving of the bullet occurs while the live cartridge is extracted from the barrel extension.
The bullet catches on the sharp edges of the barrel extension's lugs.
The ejector pushes the bullet into the lugs.

This does NOT occur when a round is fired because the bullet exits the action through the bore.
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:54 PM
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I had a Stag AR that had the same problem; deformed/dented casing and having to slam the forward assist after every round. It would not function properly with anything but good quality ammo. No wolf, no aguila, etc. After several hundred rounds of decent ammo and numerous cleanings the problem resolved itself. I avoid cheap ammo and old military surplus from crap countries for AR series rifles and havenít had a problem for quite a long time now.
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:57 PM
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...
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
I had a Stag AR that had the same problem; deformed/dented casing and having to slam the forward assist after every round. It would not function properly with anything but good quality ammo. No wolf, no aguila, etc. After several hundred rounds of decent ammo and numerous cleanings the problem resolved itself.
That's exactly what happens when the gun gets all broken in.
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:10 PM
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The only FTF issue I ever had with an AR was a loose castle nut. Because it was loose, the buffer tweaked during fire and the bolt carrier dragged, creating a feeding issue. Once I tightened up the castle nut (and staked it) the problem never came back.
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But that wasn't enough for the liberal douches. They just had to go after the grandfathered mags... And look what it got them. - L84CABO
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Last edited by Redeyedrider; 10-18-2019 at 9:15 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Use better ammo.

Use a different magazine.

Load your mags only half full.

liberally oil the bolt and carrier......
...... or buy an AK and don't worry about any of the above
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But that wasn't enough for the liberal douches. They just had to go after the grandfathered mags... And look what it got them. - L84CABO
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
That top round was put there after the bullet damage occurred.

You are probably right, but who does that, and why? Who puts a janky round back in the mag (Wolf ammo buyers??)

I am confused
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-18-2019 at 9:36 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Who puts a janky round back in the mag (Wolf ammo buyers??)
Asked and answered...
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
That top round was put there after the bullet damage occurred.
That bullet damage did not occur while the round was IN the magazine
Actually, thatís exactly what the mag looked like, with that top round in that exact position, when I dropped the magazine. Iím no AR expert, but Iím not a complete retard either lol. Iíd never put that round back in a magazine.
This was my third time though, using a third 10 round PMAG.

In order of events:
1. Set loaded mag and chambered a round
2. Pull trigger, round fired, spent casing ejected and next round chambered.
3. Pull trigger...nothing
4. Drop the mag and see this
5. Manually eject live round from the chamber and see it has similar damage.
6. Swear, a lot
7. Take pictures for Calguns
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuy75 View Post
Actually, that’s exactly what the mag looked like, with that top round in that exact position, when I dropped the magazine. I’m no AR expert, but I’m not a complete retard either lol. I’d never put that round back in a magazine.
This was my third time though, using a third 10 round PMAG.

In order of events:
1. Set loaded mag and chambered a round
2. Pull trigger, round fired, spent casing ejected and next round chambered.
3. Pull trigger...nothing
4. Drop the mag and see this
5. Manually eject live round from the chamber and see it has similar damage.
6. Swear, a lot
7. Take pictures for Calguns
That bullet damage did NOT occur while the round was fully seated in the magazine.
At some time in the process, that mag was up in the action and then went back down after you removed the mag.
I note how the cartridge is overlapping the front of the magazine.
That's not possible without the round having been pushed partly out of the magazine.
The top round sits to the REAR of the magazine when a magazine is sitting in the magwell under the carrier after cycling because the carrier pulls it back while cycling.
To be forward, additional manipulations have occurred.

What did you do with every other live round that you hand ejected between firing the single shots?
Are those rounds still on the bench where they fell?
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:45 AM
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Looks under lubed. The charging handle is dry, I coat mine. I also manually break it in by exersizing the action.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:23 PM
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I's like to see the underside of the upper and get a peak at the BCG condition.
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But that wasn't enough for the liberal douches. They just had to go after the grandfathered mags... And look what it got them. - L84CABO
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Old 10-19-2019, 2:49 PM
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I think under lubed too. How about the cam pin,bolt and carrier. do they slide smoothly when out of upper.
And I too manually cycle action a bunch and use snapcaps to smooth trigger, action spring and most of all the bcg.
A few mags of snap caps and manually cycling got my new build to lock up properly but at first lube and test it didn't want to lock up.
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