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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:31 AM
isntzen isntzen is offline
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Default Do you own a rifle fitting this description?

Do you have a rifle that fits all of these criteria?

A) Weighs less than 8.5 lbs without an optic or ammo.

B) Can place 9 out of 10 shots on an 8 inch plate at 1200 yards within 60 seconds. (Assuming competent marksmanshp.)

C) Can be used for an elk hunt.

D) Uses readily available factory ammo.

E) Has a street price of less than $1,200 (no optic).

Do I have to build, or am I looking for a factory rifle?

Last edited by isntzen; 05-26-2019 at 12:43 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2019, 6:02 AM
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I haven't tried shooting my Winchester 670 in .30-06 out to 1200 yards but it'll kill an elk, it weights less than 8.5 pounds (I think) and it's been pretty deadly with 150 grain Remington Core-Lokts. The newer model 70s are probably just as accurate and would fall inside your budget.
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Old 05-26-2019, 7:38 AM
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Those requirements are pretty tight. Id say borderline unrealistic.
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Old 05-26-2019, 8:01 AM
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B is up to the shooters skill

Everything else is doable from factory rifles.
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Old 05-26-2019, 8:10 AM
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The 1200 yd. requirement is as much about skill as the rifle. All of your other requirements are available over the counter.
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Old 05-26-2019, 8:10 AM
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D and B are almost mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-26-2019, 8:17 AM
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I can hit a 12" plate at 1200 yards 10 times with my Ruger precision in 6.5cm but I dont want to lug that thing around for elk hunting. Besides 6.5 won't take an elk ethically and you have to go pretty deep for elk. I have to ask the most important question though, why are you shooting elk at 1200 yards?

If you want an all round for everything gun, precision to hunting I hate to break it to you but you're not gonna find it. A long range precision rig will usually be heavier than a lightweight hunter and the medium profile barrels are decent at both but not great. Most guys that shoot long range add weight to their rifles so they don't bounce around and compound that with a caliber big enough to drop an elk you're looking 300wm or greater.

If you want a decent brush gun that will take an elk or a dgrizzly here is a shameless plug to my BAR in 300wm. It's a hell of a gun and very accurate, very fast but I'm not sure you're gonna get 9/10 1200 yards with anything except a chassis rifle Bergara or AICS R700 and I wouldn't hunt with those guns. You could always look at a Barret 416 too but you're gonna have to sell one of your cars to afford it

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1531099
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Old 05-26-2019, 8:33 AM
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You’re asking for two, possibly three different guns. The “One Gun” is compromise, not an optimization.


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Old 05-26-2019, 8:55 AM
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The problem is your 60 second criteria. That means a heavy barrel profile. You won't find a sub 8.5 pound gun that can meet that requirement.
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Old 05-26-2019, 9:44 AM
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I don't think you would want to hunt with a 30 to 50 MOA base and a Nightforce scope...

I don't think you would want to shoot to 1200 with a fixed 4X or a 2-7 scope

I don't think you would want to swap optics and bases for hunting and target

Many of the varmint remingtons will shoot 1/2 MOA
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Do you have a rifle that fits all of these criteria?

A) Weighs less than 8.5 lbs without an optic or ammo.
that one is easy

B) Can place 9 out of 10 shots on an 8 inch plate at 1200 yards within 60 seconds. (Assuming competent marksmanship.)
this one is not a valid measure of what you want. a better measure would be, make constant hits on game sized animals with correct wind calls at 1000k yards with SLOW fire.

C) Can be used for an elk hunt.
easy

D) Uses readily available factory ammo.
easy

E) Has a street price of less than $1,200 (no optic).
umm easy

Do I have to build, or am I looking for a factory rifle?
Tika in 300 win mag with a brake on it. Wear ear protection and its 6.5lbs

7mm mag would be fine as well. If you want to hunt elk the 6.5CM is not ideal just saying
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:13 AM
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Sounds like a Donald Babbett thread.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:31 AM
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I don't think the OP is planning to shoot an elk at 1200 yards. At least I hope not because even a .300 win mag and a 200 grain bullet will only deliver about 400 ft-lbs of energy at that distance. I'm not sure that's enough for an ethical kill and I wouldn't want to start tracking a critter with that big a lead.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:39 AM
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10 aimed rounds in a minute at 1200 yards is a very tall order. With a round capable of cleanly taking an elk, likely impossible, at any cost or weight. Elk-level energy at 1200 is probably .338LM at a minimum, maybe a 30-378 Weatherby would be borderline. After the first trigger pull of either of those rounds in an 8.5lb gun, very few people could work up the nerve to pull it 9 more times.

Bring your distance requirement down to maybe 800 yards and you have a chance of meeting the rest of your goals.

Why would a hunting rifle need to be able to fire 10 rounds in a minute? Are your elk planning some sort of organized wave attack?


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Old 05-26-2019, 10:53 AM
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Any gun that light will wander off target after 3 shots due to barrel heat. You need target weight if you need to take 10 shots at your prey.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:55 AM
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I actually have two. Please PayPal me 1200 and I will ship upon receipt.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:03 AM
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I shoot my elk with 270 or 06 easily out to 400yds on more than one, no need for mag calibers. Just know your dope!
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:09 AM
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i am sure his 1200 yard was not a lets take game at 1200 yards. he could have just said id like a gun that can shoot sub .7" groups at 100 yards. That is about average for calguns group size
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:10 AM
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[QUOTE=Aeonstar;23041004]Tika in 300 win mag with a brake on it. Wear ear protection and its 6.5lbs/QUOTE]

My Tikka T3 Lite in .300 mag will do all but the 1200 yard requirement. I don't shoot at anything that far, so it is a moot point for me. I certainly would not shoot at game that far. I don't have abrake on it but I did put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it with a no-longer made Burris Short Mag scope.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:14 AM
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Yes I have the rifle you describe.
A Remington 700 CDL in .30-06.
Weighs 7.5lbs without scope. Scope and rings and weigh in at 1lb. Making my setup 8.5 lbs. add another couple of ounces for the sling.
I paid $700 10 years ago. You should be able to find one for around that price today.
It also comes in other calibers that can meet your needs.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Do you have a rifle that fits all of these criteria?

A) Weighs less than 8.5 lbs without an optic or ammo.

B) Can place 9 out of 10 shots on an 8 inch plate at 1200 yards within 60 seconds. (Assuming competent marksmanshp.)

C) Can be used for an elk hunt.

D) Uses readily available factory ammo.

E) Has a street price of less than $1,200 (no optic).

Do I have to build, or am I looking for a factory rifle?
Requirements A&E cock block B.
Requirement B is unrealistic for anyone without significant longrange experience and wind reading skills.

The mere creation of such a set of requirements already shows that the OP lacks the necessary skills because nobody uses a sporter weight barrel to shoot 10 rounds at 1200yds and actually expects it to be sub 2/3 moa beyond about the 3rd shot.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:30 AM
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The elusive "do everything great for $1200" rifle does not exist.

Pick your importance:
"Extreme accuracy over 10 rounds in 60 seconds" or "Easy to carry all day".
The two are mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:30 AM
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Awaiting the OPs future posts about his great rifle and the detailed range reports.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Yes I have the rifle you describe.
A Remington 700 CDL in .30-06.
Weighs 7.5lbs without scope. Scope and rings and weigh in at 1lb. Making my setup 8.5 lbs. add another couple of ounces for the sling.
I paid $700 10 years ago. You should be able to find one for around that price today.
It also comes in other calibers that can meet your needs.
Please post the video where you make 9 hits out of 10 shots on an 8" plate at 1200yds in 60 seconds.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I don't think the OP is planning to shoot an elk at 1200 yards. At least I hope not because even a .300 win mag and a 200 grain bullet will only deliver about 400 ft-lbs of energy at that distance. I'm not sure that's enough for an ethical kill and I wouldn't want to start tracking a critter with that big a lead.
Thank you for giving me the credit of not hunting elk at 1200 yards. I would never attempt this.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Please post the video where you make 9 hits out of 10 shots on an 8" plate at 1200yds in 60 seconds.
Lol. Thankfully Randall, I am not part of the question. The question assumes a capable Marksman. Lol.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:52 AM
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Weatherby 338-378 ???
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  #28  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The elusive "do everything great for $1200" rifle does not exist.

Pick your importance:
"Extreme accuracy over 10 rounds in 60 seconds" or "Easy to carry all day".
The two are mutually exclusive.
Well now, this simplification of the question is in the 10 Ring.
How heavy do you suppose we have to go?
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Please post the video where you make 9 hits out of 10 shots on an 8" plate at 1200yds in 60 seconds.
I didn't say I could do it, he, OP, asked for a rifle that could. The Remington 700 CDL in .30-06, 7mm-08 can get him there within the weight he desires.

Google Remington 700 CDL 1,200 yard shot. Plenty of YouTube video's. IF it can be done once it can be done over again and IF there is anyone that can make the shot the rifle will work.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:28 PM
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Seems like this rifle might have a shot at fulfilling the requirements;

https://www.bergara.online/us/rifles...hmr-pro-rifle/

Although it is 9 1/2 pounds and around $1,500.

???
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:33 PM
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18 to 22lbs

so whats your point in asking for this level of accuracy at this rate of fire?asking for a friend
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Requirement B is unrealistic for anyone without significant longrange experience and wind reading skills.

The mere creation of such a set of requirements already shows that the OP lacks the necessary skills because nobody uses a sporter weight barrel to shoot 10 rounds at 1200yds and actually expects it to be sub 2/3 moa beyond about the 3rd shot.
This 100%.
I would bet that those whom have experience in both long range SHOOTING, and realistic, successful and ethical HUNTING would never create such a set of parameters to begin with. Notice that there is a huge difference between the two skill sets.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:44 PM
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You're looking at a heavy barrel profile, which makes the rifle heavy. Even with that 10 rounds in 60 seconds? There's record of snipers in Vietnam making shot counts like that, but at shorter ranges.

As Randall pointed out, some of your list excludes other parts.

I have lugged a Varmint weight rifle around Southern Wyoming while antelope hunting; it gets heavy pretty quick. Of course I do not have visible abs, so that might be why. No way I would lug one around out elk hunting.

Most of what you describe for the most part is a sniper type rifle in larger cartridges. Read HEAVY. USMC lugs them around, but they aren't light...
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Yes I have the rifle you describe.

A Remington 700 CDL in .30-06.

Weighs 7.5lbs without scope. Scope and rings and weigh in at 1lb. Making my setup 8.5 lbs. add another couple of ounces for the sling.

I paid $700 10 years ago. You should be able to find one for around that price today.

It also comes in other calibers that can meet your needs.


And the holdover at 1200 yards is less than 50 feet!


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Old 05-26-2019, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
Those requirements are pretty tight. Id say borderline unrealistic.
Yes I know, that is why I'm asking. Eliminating any one of the requirements produces some obvious answers. Trying to get as close as possible to satisfying all requirements, with little or no compromise of requirement "B".

I have found this and I'm wondering if anyone can advise me as to how it would Stack Up ...

https://www.bergara.online/us/rifles...hmr-pro-rifle/

... and whether or not I can improve on the concept by building a rifle.

???
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Well now, this simplification of the question is in the 10 Ring.
How heavy do you suppose we have to go?
15-16lb rifles balance well.
Then add 2-4 lbs of scope and mounts.
You could use a much lighter stock and scope and get it down to maybe 13lbs, but it would not balance well for field positions.

$1200 budget is also going to dramatically effect the accuracy you can expect.
The cost of the stock to save a couple pounds will be in the $600-$800 price range.
Add at least $1500 more for the barreled action.
You will absolutely need a high end custom fitted barrel and be handloading to reach the level of accuracy stated in requirement B.

Don't compromise on a rifle to try to make it both a target rifle and a hunting rifle.
You need to pick if you want a target rifle that can shoot 10 rounds OR if you want a hunting rifle.
Build the one that's more important first.
Then build the other one later.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 05-26-2019 at 6:18 PM..
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
I didn't say I could do it, he, OP, asked for a rifle that could. The Remington 700 CDL in .30-06, 7mm-08 can get him there within the weight he desires.

Google Remington 700 CDL 1,200 yard shot.
Plenty of YouTube video's.
IF it can be done once it can be done over again and IF there is anyone that can make the shot the rifle will work.
LOL.

After 3 shots, a sporter barrel warms up and wanders so NO, it's NOT a matter of it you can do it once, you can do it 9/10 times IN 60 SECONDS.
Do you realize how hot a bigbore centfire rifle barrel gets with fired 10 times in 60 seconds?

Please post the youtube link where a person fires the Remington 700 CDL at a 8" plate at 1200yds and makes 9 hits in 10 shots fired.
I'll even forgive the time requirement, but let's limit it to say 5 minutes for the 10 shots.
All one single take, no editing.
We need to see that there was no more than 1 miss in 10 rounds fired in a single sequence.
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
I would bet that those whom have experience in both long range SHOOTING, and realistic, successful and ethical HUNTING would never create such a set of parameters to begin with. Notice that there is a huge difference between the two skill sets.
Requirement B is unrealistic for even the world's top shooters.
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:23 PM
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so whats your point in asking for this level of accuracy at this rate of fire?asking for a friend
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Old 05-26-2019, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
a rifle that fits all of these criteria?

A) Weighs less than 8.5 lbs without an optic or ammo.

B) Can place 9 out of 10 shots on an 8 inch plate at 1200 yards within 60 seconds. (Assuming competent marksmanshp.)

C) Can be used for an elk hunt.

D) Uses readily available factory ammo.

E) Has a street price of less than $1,200 (no optic).
Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Trying to get as close as possible to satisfying all requirements, with little or no compromise of requirement "B".
You need to put the requirements in the order of importance.
Most would assume that A is most important and E is least important.
Is that the case?

Also, D is a non-starter for B.
C you might as well jusr remove completely from the list as ANY rifle meeting requirement B can be used for an elk hunt.
E should also be thrown out because of B.

So that gets us to just A and B.
Which is more important.
You will absolutely have to give up one of them.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 05-26-2019 at 6:59 PM..
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