Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > FFL's Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-15-2019, 7:37 AM
ronlglock's Avatar
ronlglock ronlglock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default Make a SIG P320 CA compliant?

Just thinking out loud here. Many SIGs have an easily-removed serial-numbered fire control group (FCG) which can be popped out of the plastic grip. Examples are the 226, 320 and 365.

I've talked to SIG at SHOT about building a CA compliant single shot plastic grip but they said they have more than enough business without it. Why can't someone build a single-shot grip which will accept a SIG FCG, slide and barrel so that he FCG can be sold in CA? Seems like 3D printing would be perfect and low cost.

The seller would bring in firearms with 10-round mags, swap the FCG into the single-shot plastic and sell the package including the original plastic. What am I missing?
__________________


NRA Patron, CRPA Life, SAF Life, GSSF Life, NRA RSO and pistol instructor, ILEETA instructor. Stop me before I join something else!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-15-2019, 7:42 AM
waygeekierthanu's Avatar
waygeekierthanu waygeekierthanu is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 1,736
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

A single shot firearm in California can never have ever been assembled as a semi-automatic and its entire history including all attached parts. Since the fire control group comes from Sig, it was assembled as a semi-automatic at some point. So simply removing the fire control group and making it a single shot won't work. You would have to have been manufactured from the outset as single shot

I am an FFL in Rancho Cucamonga, vist us at https://www.2azone.com
__________________
We sell Glock 19 frames via a slide buy back program! Buy a complete Glock and we will buy back your slide!

We have 2011 STI single shot pistols available! Genuine STI 2011 frames!

SCAR 17 in FDE and Blackin stock! TOO CHEAP TO POST PM FOR PRICE

Scar 20s CA compliant with fin, 3999!!!!! In stock

FDE USP-9 HK in stock! $889

website
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-15-2019, 7:56 AM
ronlglock's Avatar
ronlglock ronlglock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waygeekierthanu View Post
A single shot firearm in California can never have ever been assembled as a semi-automatic and its entire history including all attached parts. Since the fire control group comes from Sig, it was assembled as a semi-automatic at some point. So simply removing the fire control group and making it a single shot won't work. You would have to have been manufactured from the outset as single shot

I am an FFL in Rancho Cucamonga, vist us at https://www.2azone.com
Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if SIG would sell FCGs to another manufacturer for final assembly into a single shot? It sounds like I need to talk to them at SHOT again next year.
__________________


NRA Patron, CRPA Life, SAF Life, GSSF Life, NRA RSO and pistol instructor, ILEETA instructor. Stop me before I join something else!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-15-2019, 8:50 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 10,416
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

They and other manufacturers could do things to get around it, but as they said, they have enough business without it. There is also legal liability issues.

The lawsuit is the way to change things, but it is taking a long time. Such laws should be put on hold until all the courts find that it is constitutional so that an unconstitutional law isn't enforced for decades.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-15-2019, 9:30 AM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nakatomi Plaza - 30th floor
Posts: 14,632
iTrader: 166 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Just thinking out loud here. Many SIGs have an easily-removed serial-numbered fire control group (FCG) which can be popped out of the plastic grip. Examples are the 226, 320 and 365.
P226 does not have a frame/chassis system. Maybe you are thinking of P250.

CA DOJ would take the position that converting a single shot pistol to semi auto, constitutes the manufacture of an unsafe handgun.
__________________
.


Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-15-2019 at 9:32 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:23 AM
ronlglock's Avatar
ronlglock ronlglock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
P226 does not have a frame/chassis system. Maybe you are thinking of P250.

CA DOJ would take the position that converting a single shot pistol to semi auto, constitutes the manufacture of an unsafe handgun.
https://sigsauerguns.com/accessories...sion-kits.html

If building an AR is not manufacturing, I wonder, but yeah, it's California.
__________________


NRA Patron, CRPA Life, SAF Life, GSSF Life, NRA RSO and pistol instructor, ILEETA instructor. Stop me before I join something else!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2019, 2:10 PM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 10,416
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Any semi-auto frame (prior to being made into a semi-auto) could be made in a compliant manner and then have a conversion kit as most can have the slide replaced.
__________________
Kemasa.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein

Last edited by kemasa; 11-15-2019 at 8:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-15-2019, 2:26 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nakatomi Plaza - 30th floor
Posts: 14,632
iTrader: 166 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
https://sigsauerguns.com/accessories...sion-kits.html

If building an AR is not manufacturing, I wonder, but yeah, it's California.
The P226 has caliber conversion kits, but the frame has the serial number just like Glocks, 1911s, etc.

Unlike the P320, P365, P250 - the P226 does not have a serial numbered fire control group that can be removed from the frame. The P226 is also not plastic.

See the first page of the roster lookup if you want to know what DOJ thinks about manufacturing:
https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search

Quote:
Alterations of a single shot pistol (i.e. changing upper receivers, connecting gas tubes) may also be considered manufacturing an unsafe handgun. See California Penal Code sections 31900-31910 for the definition of unsafe handguns and 32000(a) for more information on illegal acts involving unsafe handguns.
__________________
.


Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-15-2019 at 2:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-15-2019, 5:41 PM
ronlglock's Avatar
ronlglock ronlglock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,360
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default Make a SIG P320 CA compliant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
The P226 has caliber conversion kits, but the frame has the serial number just like Glocks, 1911s, etc.

Unlike the P320, P365, P250 - the P226 does not have a serial numbered fire control group that can be removed from the frame. The P226 is also not plastic.

See the first page of the roster lookup if you want to know what DOJ thinks about manufacturing:

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search

Ah. My mistake on the P226 I gotta learn how to read mo’ better.

I wonder how gray the definition of “manufacturing“ is. The buyer wouldn’t be changing anything except a piece of plastic. The FCG and upper — all the parts that make it go bang — remain the same.
__________________


NRA Patron, CRPA Life, SAF Life, GSSF Life, NRA RSO and pistol instructor, ILEETA instructor. Stop me before I join something else!

Last edited by ronlglock; 11-15-2019 at 5:45 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-16-2019, 8:27 AM
ugimports's Avatar
ugimports ugimports is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 4,631
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Ah. My mistake on the P226 I gotta learn how to read mo’ better.

I wonder how gray the definition of “manufacturing“ is. The buyer wouldn’t be changing anything except a piece of plastic. The FCG and upper — all the parts that make it go bang — remain the same.
Nobody will really know how gray the definition is until you see something in the courts, in my opinion.
__________________
us on facebook
UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales
Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed
web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/ugimports / phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867)
FB: http://facebook.com/ugimports
NorCal Range Maps: http://ugimports.com/rangemaps

I AM THE MAJORITY!!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-16-2019, 8:40 AM
BajaJames83's Avatar
BajaJames83 BajaJames83 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North West SD county
Posts: 5,262
iTrader: 340 / 100%
Default

What needs to happen is all gun mfgs stic paying the ca roster extortion and let everything fall off.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-16-2019, 8:51 AM
ugimports's Avatar
ugimports ugimports is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 4,631
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaJames83 View Post
What needs to happen is all gun mfgs stic paying the ca roster extortion and let everything fall off.
That will happen soon enough...and then we will be in California, home of the C&R and single action revolvers since that's all you need/get for the 2A...
__________________
us on facebook
UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales
Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed
web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/ugimports / phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867)
FB: http://facebook.com/ugimports
NorCal Range Maps: http://ugimports.com/rangemaps

I AM THE MAJORITY!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-16-2019, 3:36 PM
audiophil2 audiophil2 is online now
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Surprise
Posts: 7,752
iTrader: 232 / 100%
Default

i have a safe full of fcg that never made it to ca. the owners just want all the parts. can't be used to make a single shot though.
__________________

01FFL/03SOT AND 07FFL/02SOT
PHOENIX, AZ MIDDLEMAN TRANSFER DEALER SINCE 2010
10 round magazine conversion service
CA compliance service
Machine gun/suppressor rentals
Private 10 acre range rentals
Storage for your CA firearms/CA prohibited firearm purchases.

MY CALGUNS COMMERCIAL SALES SUBFORUM
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...play.php?f=376
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-16-2019, 4:09 PM
weaselfire weaselfire is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 96
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

There are plenty of options for manufacturers to build CA compliant firearms but none of them are commercially viable. Any manufacturer that can build these can make more money and sell more guns by building something the shooters in other states will buy.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:29 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2020, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.
Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Tactical Gear Military Boots 5.11 Tactical