Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:14 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,694
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
I read through the law. Thanks for posting the link Librarian. While losing rights over a warrant may simply become the poison pill that causes this bill to veto, I'm not sure that the rest of this is bad.

Think of what Antifa is doing at rallies. If one of those idiots took a peaceful protestor's sign, beat them up, and broke their camera, it would be reasonable to believe it was a political hate driven activity. While I have not checked to see if that is a protected class, I would love to see the perp get a 10 year prohibition.

Maybe enforcement will be one sided, but maybe this is not a bad idea. Please correct me if I am missing something. (I'm not even done with one cup of coffee yet.)
but no prosecutors are not charging antifa members or... better yet mayors and police chiefs who are conspiring to allow political violence... with interfering with civil rights.

So it's back to the possibility of one side application. re: when people finally are charged they'll only be non lefties. One sided laws are problematic.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-17-2017, 9:33 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 10,869
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
'Quitting' has nothing to do with it...It's the smartest move for those that can do it.
Loosing pro gun rights voters from this state did not help our cause here. Do the math, less support is less. It has a lot to do with where we are here today.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-17-2017, 10:13 AM
BluNorthern's Avatar
BluNorthern BluNorthern is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lassen County
Posts: 9,866
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Loosing pro gun rights voters from this state did not help our cause here. Do the math, less support is less. It has a lot to do with where we are here today.
It doesn't matter. The die is cast, gun rights in California are toast, and the progressive agenda is unstoppable. Life is too short to beat your head against the wall in a futile cause.

In what possible scenario do you see all the gun laws rolled back and commonsense conservatism being the political doctrine that guides this state?
__________________
"I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-17-2017, 10:24 AM
cire raeb cire raeb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Democratic People's Republic of Kalfornia
Posts: 809
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Bring it on!!!I I hate Newsom and Harris.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-17-2017, 11:12 AM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
Not a mod or lawyer
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 12,044
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
It doesn't matter. The die is cast, gun rights in California are toast, and the progressive agenda is unstoppable. Life is too short to beat your head against the wall in a futile cause.

In what possible scenario do you see all the gun laws rolled back and commonsense conservatism being the political doctrine that guides this state?
Give up and let the enemy win? That's something a liberal would do
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-17-2017, 12:27 PM
Ugly Hombre Ugly Hombre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Banned from O.T. Territory.
Posts: 1,105
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

"It doesn't matter. The die is cast, gun rights in California are toast, and the progressive agenda is unstoppable. Life is too short to beat your head against the wall in a futile cause."

Yep-

The die is cast gents-

With the recent passing of law making the whole state of California a Illegal Alien hide out- it is end game.

Done deal. The whole state is a nut house.

Best thing to do if you are a Constitutional Conservative IMO is to GTFO of California.

The only thing that could save the state is for the Feds to come in and start enforcing Constitutional law.

That's not going to happen.

Damn sad.

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 09-17-2017 at 12:32 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-17-2017, 12:38 PM
Battosai1 Battosai1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 65
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
It doesn't matter. The die is cast, gun rights in California are toast, and the progressive agenda is unstoppable. Life is too short to beat your head against the wall in a futile cause.

In what possible scenario do you see all the gun laws rolled back and commonsense conservatism being the political doctrine that guides this state?
Blu is right, it's best we retreat back into conservative stronghold states and wait for the inevitability of what is to come. However what many see is a bad thing I see as good. California if the figuritve "lamb to the slaughter " and we all know what will happen.

California will become the warning to all people to what happens when you go 'Left.' Crime, poverty, no personal freedoms, corrupt government, high taxation. Sometimes in order to save a field it must be burned.

Look at Venesula for example, a champion of socialism and big government and now a ruin, and the best part about it is how the people have reacted to this corruption, they rally in the streets and march against it, the very same they praised and raised before them. The greatest group against communism in the 60s were those who had lived under communism.

It is time for California to sleep in the bed it's made, those in the left leaning democrat party who hold no power politically or economicly will fight their own established government when the time comes, and their is nothing more voilent and destructive then the hungry, rage filled surge of the masses. It is time to remind people what it is like to live under tyrants.

With the leaving of right leaning people and business it is inevitable, but necessary.

Last edited by Battosai1; 09-17-2017 at 12:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-17-2017, 1:11 PM
BluNorthern's Avatar
BluNorthern BluNorthern is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lassen County
Posts: 9,866
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Give up and let the enemy win? That's something a liberal would do
I'm not the one pushing the bending over and complying with registration strategy like some here.

You might want to reconsider the 'let the enemy win' comment.

And I'll ask you also... In what possible scenario do you see all the gun laws rolled back and commonsense conservatism being the political doctrine that guides this state?
__________________
"I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-17-2017, 6:38 PM
GDC GDC is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 48
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
but no prosecutors are not charging antifa members or... better yet mayors and police chiefs who are conspiring to allow political violence... with interfering with civil rights.

So it's back to the possibility of one side application. re: when people finally are charged they'll only be non lefties. One sided laws are problematic.
hate speech is reprehensible. But worse is defining it or sanctioning it in the law. As the Europeans have seen, it is impossible to define without massive double standards, and it absolutely can be used to chill non hate speech in poltical discourse.

I am all for almost all of the protected classes in employment or housing. But when it comes to political acts, including bad ones, and especially poltical speech, hate speech sanctions would be a total mess. Extending it to disqualification on firearms ownership is insane.

If at one of these rallies a person has a US flag and someone from an opposing side has a Mexican flag, pulling at the Mexican flag and stomping it could be seen invoking " national origin " threshold. But would the government or police be either inclined or able to argue that the person whose US flag was pull at and stomped was a national origin attack? I bet they would not.

And is a (disgusting and reprehensible) swastika t-Shirt or containing sign, qualitatively different than a hammer and sickle? My dad fought in the pacific but his bothers fought and one died fighting the Nazis, but the Soviets were both as crushing of the individual in the darkness of statism and totalitarianism, and as mass murderous as the Nazis. We had family that stayed in the "old country" that were murdered by communists. Both symbols are revolting, but I wonder how many secondary or tertiary schools would eject a kid for a shirt with a hammer and sickle vs a swastika?

I don't think there is a sensible person who does not know that African Americans, gays, women have been subject to prejudice and systemic harm from that. And we ought to be mindful of that in a lot of ways we think personally and as a polity. But to start injecting protected class alone into hate speech is not the solution. This invariable begs the question about hate speech against non protected classes. Maybe the "N" word and "redn3ck" or "white trash" being slung around are not precisely not analogous, but they are in the same family.

In Europe they have problems with many countries outlawing idiotic Holocaust denial, but then ran into problems when laws outlawing Armenian genocide denial were proposed. In some countries certain statements against Islam are illegal while the same statements against Christianity are not -- and in some coutnries this is inverted! We are also seeing everywhere the increasingly asserted proposition that any resistance to open border is per se xenophobia, and xenophobia defined as per se hate speech.

Using this problematic area of very very messy law to removing rights such as second amendment rights is not just a slippery slope, it is jump off the cliff.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 09-17-2017, 6:57 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Dazed & Confused
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 6,852
iTrader: 269 / 100%
Default

So let me get this right...

I lose my gun rights if I get into a screaming match at a political rally, yet I don't lose my gun rights if I drug my neighbors 21 year old daughter and rape and sodomize her while shes out cold??

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.....

Only in California....
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 09-17-2017, 8:18 PM
Ugly Hombre Ugly Hombre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Banned from O.T. Territory.
Posts: 1,105
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The Communists murdered millions more than the National Socialist Nazi sumvitchs. And were just as, if not more evil. Its a fact- spiked by all areas of the American media.

The Nazi's are long gone, there are still vast areas of the world where Communist's are still practicing mass murder. N.Korea E.G.

The American- new Democrat Prog/Commies the so called "Alt-Left" with their Antifa/BLM goon squads are the direct heirs of the old Bolsheviks. And are just as dangerous and demented.

They are enemies of our republic, plan and simple.

It is amazingly stupid- wear a Nazi swastika tee shirt, you will be rightfully stoned.

Wear a murderous bastard dead 'Che', tee shirt- or a Mao shirt, you are one of the cool kids..

The idea of "hate crime" is also stupid- all crime is hateful. Punish people equal- that used to be the way in America- but in the Hillary era- thats no longer the American way. Some folks are just plain- more equal than others .

And freedom of speech, even 'mean word' speech-is protected by the Constitution, highest law of the land.

Except in California...

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 09-17-2017 at 8:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 09-17-2017, 8:44 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,694
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDC View Post
hate speech is reprehensible. But worse is defining it or sanctioning it in the law. As the Europeans have seen, it is impossible to define without massive double standards, and it absolutely can be used to chill non hate speech in poltical discourse.

I am all for almost all of the protected classes in employment or housing. But when it comes to political acts, including bad ones, and especially poltical speech, hate speech sanctions would be a total mess. Extending it to disqualification on firearms ownership is insane.

If at one of these rallies a person has a US flag and someone from an opposing side has a Mexican flag, pulling at the Mexican flag and stomping it could be seen invoking " national origin " threshold. But would the government or police be either inclined or able to argue that the person whose US flag was pull at and stomped was a national origin attack? I bet they would not.

And is a (disgusting and reprehensible) swastika t-Shirt or containing sign, qualitatively different than a hammer and sickle? My dad fought in the pacific but his bothers fought and one died fighting the Nazis, but the Soviets were both as crushing of the individual in the darkness of statism and totalitarianism, and as mass murderous as the Nazis. We had family that stayed in the "old country" that were murdered by communists. Both symbols are revolting, but I wonder how many secondary or tertiary schools would eject a kid for a shirt with a hammer and sickle vs a swastika?

I don't think there is a sensible person who does not know that African Americans, gays, women have been subject to prejudice and systemic harm from that. And we ought to be mindful of that in a lot of ways we think personally and as a polity. But to start injecting protected class alone into hate speech is not the solution. This invariable begs the question about hate speech against non protected classes. Maybe the "N" word and "redn3ck" or "white trash" being slung around are not precisely not analogous, but they are in the same family.

In Europe they have problems with many countries outlawing idiotic Holocaust denial, but then ran into problems when laws outlawing Armenian genocide denial were proposed. In some countries certain statements against Islam are illegal while the same statements against Christianity are not -- and in some coutnries this is inverted! We are also seeing everywhere the increasingly asserted proposition that any resistance to open border is per se xenophobia, and xenophobia defined as per se hate speech.

Using this problematic area of very very messy law to removing rights such as second amendment rights is not just a slippery slope, it is jump off the cliff.
conspiring to deny civil rights is already a federal crime. It need not be hate related.

The gutless Trump admin just isn't pursuing it. I'd be raking the mayor of Berkeley and his police chief over the coals investigating them.

The same charge should be made against antifa members...

Last edited by sl0re10; 09-17-2017 at 8:47 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 09-17-2017, 8:56 PM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 14,199
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
I'm not the one pushing the bending over and complying with registration strategy like some here.

You might want to reconsider the 'let the enemy win' comment.

And I'll ask you also... In what possible scenario do you see all the gun laws rolled back and commonsense conservatism being the political doctrine that guides this state?
I agree
This state is heading too far around that leftist bend. I doubt it will ever come back.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 09-18-2017, 4:52 AM
Mithrandir13's Avatar
Mithrandir13 Mithrandir13 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 810
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So....... I hope this means the 9th circuit will be disarmed because they get their Rocks Off interfering with Civil Rights!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Thanks Librarian.

In addition to that bill's summary, which for some reason says nothing about adding crimes to the list of 10-year prohibitions anymore (though it used to), the content of the bill itself does add these crimes to the 10yr prohibitive offenses:

422.6 (interfereing with exercise of civil rights)

148.5(f) (false report of lost or stolen firearm)
__________________
The founding fathers did a wonderful thing when they included the second amendment to the constitution...

Yes... and this! http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/87senrpt.pdf

Good Guys with Guns HERE
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:34 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,583
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
The bill is specifically for the crime of "interfering with exercise of civil rights", not just "all misdemeanor hate crimes" as the article would lead one to believe.

For example tearing apart someone's "Snowflakes For Bernie" sign at a rally would qualify, but taping the "N" word on a piece of paper to someone's door wouldn't.

This bill isn't about hate crimes at all, it's about people who get a little too rowdy at public protests. More specifically, it's about giving out as many 10yr prohibition to as many people as they can.
Problem is hate crimes are disproportionately charged, almost nearly exclusively against only white people.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun

Last edited by Untamed1972; 09-18-2017 at 12:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:40 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.