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  #1  
Old 07-23-2016, 8:47 AM
Helias86 Helias86 is offline
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Default Im in love with .40, but 9mm is stupid easy to shoot

I'm a .40 guy. My Sig p226 is in .40/.357. Say what you want about it of course, but to me, it just seems like such a good middle of the road round. More energy on average than 9mm, more velocity than .45. I am trying to help my girl pick out a personal defense pistol-which is not going well haha. She hates 9mm. It kicks too much she says. She is afraid to pull the trigger. So we are hunting for some .380 pistols with no thumb safety....

Anyway, in the course of doing all this, I stumbled across a very beat up Springfield EMP in 9mm. That gun shot pretty well! It was like.... Throwing rocks at paper really. I *personally* do not feel like 9mm is for me. But man. They sure are easy shooters. If we lived in a free state where we could have 15+ rounds I'd maybe make the switch. But here in Kommiefornia, I just can't justify it. And yes. Shot placement. That's a thing. But having been under serious duress before (actually been shot at) I have a hard time imagining you're every going to get a perfect shot.

Please don't flame me. I'm young and stupid lol. But do voice your opinions.
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2016, 11:12 AM
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Nothing wrong with 40... I like 40, 45, and 10mm but I do have a cz in 9mm that the wife like because she can shoot good with it. I told her she can have that, But since I like bigger bullet for stopping power I choose those over 9mm. Nothing wrong with 9mm... Again since I have glocks, Xd, and Cz with that being said I upgrade my glocks with a heaver spring up to 20lbs just 2 or 3 lbs from stock and recoil feel like 9mm which now my wife can shoot all the cal. Anyhow she has a hard time sliding the slide back because of the spring but after awhile of breaking in, it's good to go.
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helias86 View Post
Please don't flame me. I'm young and stupid lol. But do voice your opinions.
IMHO, you posted in the wrong forum.
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madoka View Post
IMHO, you posted in the wrong forum.
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2016, 2:37 PM
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Nothing wrong with that.

A handgun is for fighting your way back to your rifle anyway.

And I have no doubts that a 9mm straight to the heart, head, or neck of a perpetrator would be "too weak".

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Old 07-26-2016, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helias86 View Post
I'm a .40 guy. My Sig p226 is in .40/.357. Say what you want about it of course, but to me, it just seems like such a good middle of the road round. More energy on average than 9mm, more velocity than .45. I am trying to help my girl pick out a personal defense pistol-which is not going well haha. She hates 9mm. It kicks too much she says. She is afraid to pull the trigger. So we are hunting for some .380 pistols with no thumb safety....

Anyway, in the course of doing all this, I stumbled across a very beat up Springfield EMP in 9mm. That gun shot pretty well! It was like.... Throwing rocks at paper really. I *personally* do not feel like 9mm is for me. But man. They sure are easy shooters. If we lived in a free state where we could have 15+ rounds I'd maybe make the switch. But here in Kommiefornia, I just can't justify it. And yes. Shot placement. That's a thing. But having been under serious duress before (actually been shot at) I have a hard time imagining you're every going to get a perfect shot.

Please don't flame me. I'm young and stupid lol. But do voice your opinions.
Serious question - not trying to be a d!ck

Do you like .40 better because it feels like more of a man's round to you? The tone of your post left me feeling as though you are discounting 9mm as a girly round.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2016, 3:14 PM
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I never really cared for my .40 and it was my 1st handgun but I love my 10mm's!
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2016, 3:16 PM
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Do you care about hitting stuff or just shooting at stuff?

If you care about hitting stuff, shoot the guns that allow you to do that better.

Seems to me the chick in you life realizes that hitting stuff is better than just shooting at stuff, good for her.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2016, 4:18 PM
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Imo, 9,40,45 throw a blanket over, difference is minimal. Now a 10mm is a different story. I can't feel any difference shooting 9mm v 40. Buy what ever you want and do t be concerned about caliber numbers.
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2016, 4:58 PM
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A long time ago a pocket 32 auto was a smart way to protect yourself.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2016, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nothingextra View Post
A long time ago a pocket 32 auto was a smart way to protect yourself.
Hey Bond caried a .25ACP!
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Old 07-26-2016, 5:03 PM
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https://thearmsguide.com/7590/origin...n-beretta-418/
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2016, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
Hey Bond caried a .25ACP!
Clark Griswald carried a BB gun in Family Vacation.
News flash ! What happens in Hollywood is not real so it would be foolish to base what one does in real life on a movie.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2016, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helias86 View Post
She is afraid to pull the trigger. So we are hunting for some .380 pistols with no thumb safety....
Shoot a .380 before looking to buy. Many of them have recoil comparable to 9mm.
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2016, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helias86 View Post
.... Please don't flame me. I'm young and stupid lol. But do voice your opinions.
Too late, you will get roasted by the end of the day.
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:14 PM
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Never cared for the. 40. Seemed like the answer to the question I wasn't asking. With modern 9mm ammo, seems line. 40 might go the way if the do-do before long.
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  #17  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:37 PM
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If your girl is set on a .380, have a look see at the cz83. On roster and recently a batch was imported, so they can be found. Very very mild recoil and an excellent shooter, although it does have a manual thumb safety, and the hammer has to be manually lowered if a da first shot is the preferred carry or storage condition.


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  #18  
Old 07-27-2016, 9:56 AM
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If she thinks 9mm has too much recoil, a .380 isn't going to be an improvement. Especially considering almost all .380's come in mouse gun sizes.

If she's that sensitive to recoil, I'd suggest buying her a .22 pistol. Before you discount the .22 as a self defense round, let me point out that .22's statistically have killed more than almost any other caliber.

It's also better than a lamp or fingernails.

She won't shoot it if she doesn't like it. If she doesn't like it, she won't like shooting PERIOD.

Also, she's much more likely to hit what she's aiming at with a .22 than a 9mm or .380. Shot placement is the single most important factor when defending yourself. Buy her what she can hit her target with.

Who knows? After a couple years of range trips with her .22, she just might warm up to shooting a 9mm. But let HER make that decision. Don't push her.

Baby steps. Patience is your friend.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2016, 10:18 AM
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just had this discussion on a trip to SD yesterday - its a never ending deal

the people that carry 9mm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHkqOWzDAZI

the people that carry 40SW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuiePszwaho
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2016, 12:57 PM
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Shoot both rounds and be happy. We're in America, you don't have to choose one over another.

As for the Mrs. she just needs to try out a variety and see what works for her. She'll find one that just "works" just like you found that emp.
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  #21  
Old 07-27-2016, 1:51 PM
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I think the size of the gun and ergonomics will matter more than the caliber in regards to recoil for your girl.

It is also a matter of training. 9 and 12 year old girls have no problem with 9mm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRddVBUlSY0
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2016, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker2020 View Post
Clark Griswald carried a BB gun in Family Vacation.
News flash ! What happens in Hollywood is not real so it would be foolish to base what one does in real life on a movie.
Okay, that was funny!
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2016, 2:18 PM
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I agree with k1dude, start with a .22 to help the missus get over the fear of guns. Work your way up from there, using your own judgment - as well as her input [important] - on whether you think she's ready or not.
Myself, I like all calibers. If it goes pew pew, pop pop, bang bang, or boom boom, its all good to me.
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2016, 2:24 PM
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Default Does Caliber Even Matter?

Does Caliber Even Matter?

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...And I’ll be the first to tell you — obsessing over caliber and hunting for “magic” bullets is the least important factor in armed self defense. I do consider it a factor, but it pales in comparison to the other more important factors.

...Not all defensive gun uses result in shots fired. Not all shots that are fired hit the target. And not all shots that hit the target, do any significant damage. There are many instances where the caliber of your gun won’t matter at all. Really.

1) A large percentage of encounters end as soon as the bad guy sees that you are armed. Merely brandishing your firearm is frequently enough to convince the bad guy to leave you alone...

...The bad guy turned and ran whether the crime victim was using a .22lr mini-revolver or a .44 Magnum. Just the sight of a gun was enough to end the encounter. Heck, odds are pretty good that the gun wouldn’t even have needed to have been loaded!

2) ...For whatever reason, the sight of a gun is not enough to deter this particular crop of bad guys, and they may continue to attack — right up until their intended victim pulls the trigger. At that point, some percentage of the bad guys will turn tail and run, even if they weren’t hit.

...So, in this hypothetical, wild-guess narrative, maybe 1/3 of the bad guys who didn’t flee at the sight of a gun, would indeed turn and flee when someone takes a shot at them, even if that shot misses. Which, for purposes of this discussion, means (once again) caliber doesn’t matter in these scenarios.

3) That brings us to the third class of encounters — ones where the bad guy actually gets shot... So what happens when a bad guy gets shot, by ANY bullet, of ANY caliber, whether it’s a hollowpoint or a frangible or an FMJ, whether it’s from a .500 S&W or a .22LR or something in-between? According to my evaluation of Greg Ellifritz’s “An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power“, the numbers are pretty consistent — approximately 60% of people who get shot, give up immediately. According to Ellifritz’s data, approximately 60% of the encounters ended with one shot being fired, almost regardless of what handgun was used. It doesn’t matter whether it’s 9mm or .357 Magnum or .40 S&W or 10mm or .44 Magnum or .22LR; the numbers were always in the general ballpark of 60% (ranging from 47% for the 9mm, up to 72% for the .32 ACP, but most calibers came in between 51 and 62%). It doesn’t matter if the bullet was a hollowpoint or an FMJ or a frangible. People apparently don’t like getting shot.

...So, take your pick — caliber mattered either 8% of the time, or 2.68%, or 0.47%. Whichever you go with, I’m sure you can see we’re basically picking nits at this point. I’m reasonably comfortable with my middle-of-the pack estimate of 90%, and that leaves us with 2.68% of the incidents where the caliber of the gun might matter. But in any of the described scenarios, it should be obvious that the caliber of the gun is not the most important factor when discussing a successful defensive gun encounter.

...My advice: carry the biggest, most powerful firearm that you can comfortably conceal and accurately shoot. If, for you, that means a 10mm, then you will be well prepared to meet any threat that a handgun can be expected to meet. If, for you, all you can handle is a pocket .380, then go for it — you’ll still be prepared to handle a huge majority of potential defensive gun encounters (if the data is to be believed). Don’t use this article as justification to carry less gun than you know you should, but do take from it that the first and second priorities are that you should be armed, and that you should be skilled with your firearm. Everything else (caliber, capacity, particular ammo, draw speed, etc) pales in importance with those first two priorities. They’re still important, but don’t ignore the bigger picture by getting caught up in the minutia.

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/does...r-even-matter/
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2016, 5:13 PM
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^^ great post
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Old 07-27-2016, 5:13 PM
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Makes me happy I choose the affordable 9mm
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Old 07-27-2016, 6:32 PM
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Have one G23 and then everything else in 9mm. I'm trying to sell the .40. With today's modern projectiles, the difference is pretty much nil.
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Old 07-27-2016, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki6zxk View Post
just had this discussion on a trip to SD yesterday - its a never ending deal

the people that carry 9mm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHkqOWzDAZI

the people that carry 40SW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuiePszwaho
Hilarious!
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2016, 6:56 PM
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I personally like 9mm over .40 or .45.... For example, when I go to the range I usually take my 9mms to enjoy and shoot a lot. But my night stand is a .45 caliber. If I would be able to carry I would probably carry a .9 or a .40 probably leaning to towards a 9mm because it's lighter.
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Old 07-27-2016, 9:20 PM
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both my .380s recoil more than any of my 9s. The problem is that most .380s are small frame pistols so they don't counter the recoil very well. Stick with a metal frame 9mm. If my wife wanted a pistol, I'd get her a Sig P226 in 9mm.
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  #31  
Old 07-27-2016, 9:45 PM
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If your rounds limited, might as well get something that makes bigger holes possible. Hence .40 is a good choice. With that in mind look for an S&W 1006 10mm. Defensive loads do 1,650 fps muzzle velocity. Another alternative is a CZ in 40. Steel frame shoots like a nine.

Last edited by Blade Gunner; 07-27-2016 at 9:47 PM..
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Old 07-28-2016, 7:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulremos View Post
Never cared for the. 40. Seemed like the answer to the question I wasn't asking. With modern 9mm ammo, seems line. 40 might go the way if the do-do before long.
Guess there has been no advancement in 40 cal projectiles?
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Old 07-28-2016, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
If she thinks 9mm has too much recoil, a .380 isn't going to be an improvement. Especially considering almost all .380's come in mouse gun sizes.

If she's that sensitive to recoil, I'd suggest buying her a .22 pistol. Before you discount the .22 as a self defense round, let me point out that .22's statistically have killed more than almost any other caliber.

It's also better than a lamp or fingernails.

She won't shoot it if she doesn't like it. If she doesn't like it, she won't like shooting PERIOD.

Also, she's much more likely to hit what she's aiming at with a .22 than a 9mm or .380. Shot placement is the single most important factor when defending yourself. Buy her what she can hit her target with.

Who knows? After a couple years of range trips with her .22, she just might warm up to shooting a 9mm. But let HER make that decision. Don't push her.

Baby steps. Patience is your friend.
I agree with K1dude. My wife tried a .38 revolver and one of my 9mms, and didn't like the recoil of either. She's not gun shy....she's a farmer's daughter. She picked out a Ruger MkIII .22 semi bull barrel, we bought it, and she really likes it. She can rack the slide easily, too.

K1dude's point about starting out a new shooter with something mild recoiling is crucial. There's no question that women adopt to bigger calibers all the time....just see the women's forum here on this site, but if you start any shooter with uncomfortable recoil and noise, you risk turning them off to the whole deal. So get her a .22 and see where it goes from there. Take a look at the Ruger Bearcat revolver, too.

Also, there is a correct and incorrect technique for those with weaker hands in racking a slide. Research it.

9mm is my "house wine". All my pistols are 9mm. The old story that 9mm is not powerful enough is just that... an outdated story. Modern 9mm factory loads offer many choices and most of them are serious medicine. If you do a little online research, you'll quickly find out that the FBI recently went back to 9mm as its standard issue caliber. Also keep in mind that the heavier the pistol, the less the felt recoil will be.

There are two types of .380 mechanisms or actions. Research them and learn that one of them creates snappier recoil than the other, and one causes racking of the slide to be more difficult.

I mention all these things because you wisely admitted that you might be lacking in knowledge about all this stuff....humility is a good thing!

Good luck in getting her set up with something she'll enjoy.
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  #34  
Old 07-28-2016, 8:38 AM
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My wife started out not liking the kick of 9mm shot thru her KAHR PM-9. I had her shoot my compact .40 for a while. After she got used to the kick of the .40 she came to realize the 9mm kick was quite manageable. Now she can consistently blow the center out of the target with her PM-9 all the way out to 45 yrds. (yes she shoots her PM-9 way better then I do)

After she mastered the PM-9, I got her a KAHR P380. (same functionality in a smaller package) because of the smaller gun size the 380 really does not shoot any easier then the 9mm and perceived kick is similar. Only real advantage is that it's smaller to conceal.

Now she carryies both. PM-9 IWB 4:00 and P380 in pocket or purse.
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  #35  
Old 07-28-2016, 8:59 AM
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it is a handgun... way underpowered for a 1 shot stop...


After all the data was reviewed since the Miami FBI shootout, the results came back

9MM, 40, 45- same stopping rate with proper JHP... the difference is shot placement
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  #36  
Old 07-28-2016, 9:59 AM
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Who'd have thought? Small 9 has less recoil and easier to shoot than a 40?

*9mm and 45 acp are over 100 yrs old and they still work. Powder/bullet improvements not withstanding.

I never bought into the 40. I have shot them and found it to be irrelevant when compared to the others. My opinion.

Personally I believe the 40 was just an attempt by FBI to cover their *** after agents were killed in a gunfight with bank robbers. "It was the gun/calibre’s fault and we need bigger/better!".
Now FBI is going back to the 9. They have gone full circle. What a waste.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:08 AM
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.40 is fine, never really saw the point myself. Everyone says 9mm is great for this and that, while .45 is great for this other thing and that other thing, so why not split the difference and get .40 which does all of those things half as well? I'd rather just have a 9mm for what 9mm does best, and a .45 for what it does best, and grab whichever one is more suited for the use that day. If we're talking about a carry weapon, where you don't get to choose between 2 different pistols and you don't know what the situation will call for, then 10mm
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:10 AM
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I used t be a .40 guy but I enjoy firing my glocks in 9mm the most.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Personally I believe the 40 was just an attempt by FBI to cover their *** after agents were killed in a gunfight with bank robbers. "It was the gun/calibre’s fault and we need bigger/better!".
Now FBI is going back to the 9. They have gone full circle. What a waste.
Technically, 10mm was their attempt to cover their butts. .40 was their attempt to keep agents from complaining that it made their wittle hands hurt

Getting back on topic, (was there a topic? I dunno) my favorite cartridge for when accuracy is of utmost importance is definitely 9mm.
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Last edited by CandG; 07-28-2016 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:14 AM
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There is no need for anyone to justify their choice of a serviceable caliber over another.

If you like it, and shoot it well than that is what you go with.
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