United Sportsmen (USI) in Concord shut down for time being UPDATE:Range Reopening

[G-Man WC]

Dat Blows Big Time.
-g

[7 Sprig]

This is really effed up , they do know there is a closer range to that church i hope ? Is it not possible that the other range bullets could get there to ?




Attachment 443527

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by 7 Sprig

This is really effed up , they do know there is a closer range to that church i hope ? Is it not possible that the other range bullets could get there to ?




Attachment 443527

The police range is at the lower left - see the white and gray grid? - and the lanes all face south, away from Hwy 4.

USI's Rifle and Pistol ranges are oriented to shoot slightly north of east, plausibly in line with the church property.

The M&P range is oriented the same way, but in line with that water tank on the north side of Evora.

Church property appears to be 2500-3000 feet from the line for Rifle and Pistol. A .22LR will easily do 5000 feet, so more energetic rifle rounds should be expected to do better - not too much distance for the problem.

I'm a bit surprised there is nothing on Claycord about this.

[Sierra57]

WTF?!?!?

My son in law and I just joined DR&GC last Sunday so we could go shooting more than 3-4 times a year up in the foothills.

This really blows.

The bullet fragments thing some fishy, though. During his 30 years in the Oakland Fire Dept, my brother said the flatland fire houses would almost always have spent bullets and shotgun pellets on the roofs. They would find them during spring and fall inspections. They would also find them in the parking lots behind the fire houses. Spent BULLETS - sometimes dinged and flattened a bit, but no bullet FRAGMENTS that he knows of.

I just called him and asked him about it.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by Librarian

The police range is at the lower left - see the white and gray grid? - and the lanes all face south, away from Hwy 4.

USI's Rifle and Pistol ranges are oriented to shoot slightly north of east, plausibly in line with the church property.

The M&P range is oriented the same way, but in line with that water tank on the north side of Evora.

Church property appears to be 2500-3000 feet from the line for Rifle and Pistol. A .22LR will easily do 5000 feet, so more energetic rifle rounds should be expected to do better - not too much distance for the problem.

I'm a bit surprised there is nothing on Claycord about this.

Has anyone from the church or the development to the north of it ever complained about the range? Did the county give an order to shut down the range?

If the church is 2,500 - 3,000 ft. away from the range, someone would have to shoot at a very high angle to get it to drop in the church parking lot. If someone shot just over the top of the hill, it would land well past the church, even a .22LR.

[Sunday]

Sharp park range in Pacifica was closed from rampant bullets whether real or planted.

[G-Man WC]

The only thing I can think of would be ticked off neighbours on the hill.
With USI's expanding summer hours.. and greed, I'm sure it pushed some
anti to do the safety dance and plant lead.
Does anyone know where the complaint came from?
I say it's condors pooping out the lead bullets they get from dead animals.
-g

[FromTheGrave]

Originally Posted by 50BMGBOB

That is what is happening here. They are going to rebuild the whole range but it is going to take a while. This won't be a short term closure.

Not doubting you, Bob. Is this from a reliable source?

[FromTheGrave]

Originally Posted by G-Man WC

With USI's expanding summer hours.. and greed, I'm sure it pushed some
anti to do the safety dance and plant lead.

On top of hours there was also the fatal negligent discharge as well as a pretty big fire.

Antis could easily find those justifiable reasons.

[50BMGBOB]

Originally Posted by FromTheGrave

Not doubting you, Bob. Is this from a reliable source?

I am not a club officer nor do I speak for the club. They don't have the answers yet but they are working on it. I was told to cancel the match I run there on October 18 and not to count on a spring match next year. That being said, they should now more in a week or two.

[Librarian]

Topo maps: see https://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...=zoomin&size=m

Welcome to the TopoQuest Map Viewer!
Exit 17, CA is a crossing located in Contra Costa County at N38.01361° W121.99778° (NAD83). This is the nearest place in the USGS place names database to the center of the map view below.

USI is about centered on the map. Note the nearly 500' hill east of the firing lines. It looks like the R&P ranges are about at 300-350'.

So, anyone do artillery targeting?

At what angle must you shoot to clear a 200 foot hill about 1200 feet away, and hit a target about 3000 feet away from the firing position? Somebody knows how to do that, I'm sure.

Note the spot where the church is located is at about 550'

[G-Man WC]

Originally Posted by FromTheGrave

On top of hours there was also the fatal negligent discharge as well as a pretty big fire.

Antis could easily find those justifiable reasons.

Yes yes but anti's don't call the shots on closing down a club or range.
The ND death was a non-member shotgunner who did not follow basic
firearms safety. The fire was started at the action pistol range on closed public day by
the Coast Guard doing some full auto training. Maybe they forgot to remove tracer rounds
and didn't fess up? The guberment is never wrong.
These incidents were months ago. I'm just wondering why now with the church bullets or whatever the
real story or lie is? Who reported or made this claim?

-g

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by G-Man WC

I'm just wondering why now with the church bullets or whatever the real story or lie is? Who reported or made this claim?

-g

Who found them - that's what I want to know. You would have to be standing right on top of bullet fragments and looking down at your feet to notice them.

I asked this earlier in the thread, but has anyone at the church or anyone in the neighborhood to the north ever filed any kind of complaints with the authorities about the gun range?

[FromTheGrave]

Seriously. I'm strapping on the foil.

[Paladin]

Well, now that the Action shooters have more "free time", they might want to "turn lemons into lemonade" by spending it organizing and fighting for Livingston to liberalize issuance of CCWs!

See my post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...9#post16947029 and follow the link and do the searching.

Things won't improve in CoCoCo without CoCoCo CGNers stepping up to the plate!

[vandal]

Calvary Temple is about as conservative as it gets so I wouldn't expect an anti-gun agenda from them.

[Friesland]

Can someone check if/maybe the NRA Women on Target might be held at either Chabot or L/P Rifle Range?

Not tread-jacking, Wife wants to attend.

Many Thanks

[triggs75]

This is really going to fill up the other local ranges. Would suck if really shut down for months to a year.

[balmo]

I did some range work at Livermore Rod last Friday and and almost all of us commented that we shoot at USI and were there becasue if the closure.

[50BMGBOB]

Originally Posted by Friesland

Can someone check if/maybe the NRA Women on Target might be held at either Chabot or L/P Rifle Range?

Not tread-jacking, Wife wants to attend.

Many Thanks

Some of the people from the Concord Club at USI do a women on target at the police range across the highway.

[NorCalTrapshooter]

Originally Posted by FromTheGrave

Not sure if this is the right forum. Just received a disturbing email.

They raised the prices for targets this week but did not raise the price for a card ( pre paid targets) the old timers are buying up every card they can get.

The rifle pistol range has been subsidizing the shotgun range for years so they can have cheaper prices. Why did they not raise the price for a card too?

[50BMGBOB]

Yes, all the shotgun, archery and knife ranges at USI are still open. All rifle and pistol shooting has been stopped until further notice. I need to start checking out some of the near by ranges. I am going to miss being able to open the MPR range during the week to shoot.

[nobody_special]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Topo maps: see https://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...=zoomin&size=m



USI is about centered on the map. Note the nearly 500' hill east of the firing lines. It looks like the R&P ranges are about at 300-350'.

So, anyone do artillery targeting?

At what angle must you shoot to clear a 200 foot hill about 1200 feet away, and hit a target about 3000 feet away from the firing position? Somebody knows how to do that, I'm sure.

Note the spot where the church is located is at about 550'

This is a rough estimate, but it should get in the ballpark.

I'm using Hornady's website for the external ballistics, plus a little trigonometry. It looks like the ballistic calculator does calculates deviation from the point-of-aim, because it clearly does not include the elevation gain due to firing angle. It accounts for gravity and wind resistance so all I need to do is add the bullet drop from the calculator to the trigonometric elevation gain.

I'll assume the range is at 300' elevation, the target is at 550' elevation and distance is 1000 yards. The angle to the hilltop is about 9.5 degrees, approximately sets the minimum angle.

Assuming 9mm 124gr, 1150 fps and BC=0.15, the bullet drop at 1000 yards and a 10 degree angle is about 250 feet. Figure we need to gain about (550-300)+250 = 500' by pure trigonometry.

Then tan(theta) = 500/3000, which is the same ratio as the hilltop so the angle is the same. So for these assumptions, the bullet has to just barely clear the hill.

Unless I've made a mistake (entirely possible).

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by sgt1372

Was at the Livermore range test firing and re-zeroing my M4 on Friday b4 heading to Front Sight tomorrow. USI and Livermore are about the same distance from where I live. USI is cheaper but traffic on Hwy 4 is a pain because of new road construction. Vasco Road can be a pain too but generally less so than Hwy 4. They just started doing some repaving on Vasco which is now also causing delays/backups.

The Safety Officers at Livermore were talking about how busy the range is now because of all the shooters going there from USI. Noticed a lot of new shooters there who had to fill out the form to get a waiver card and safety orientation to shoot there. Haven't been to Richmond range for awhile but I suspect they are also getting overflow from USI as well.

Just joined USI recently to engage in action shooting. Also got the "maintenance" closure email regarding the rifle/pistol range. The action pistol range wasn't mentioned but it doesn't surprise me if it's closed too; haven't been there since they stopped the Steel Challenge matches in July. Diablo Action Pistol shooters will have no choice but to go to Richmond for the time being.

Nothing has been said about the trap/skeet/5 stand ranges at USI. So, I assume they're still open. Will have to drop by on my way to/from Martinez (where I am also a member) to see if that's so in a week or so after I get back from FS.

BTW: For those of you who are not familiar w/the Livermore rifle/pistol range, although they charge more ($15) and have no LEO or other discounts, they will give you ALL of the extra full sized bullseye targets (the only one's they let you use there) that you need. They also have target centers for those of you who can manage to keep your rounds in the center.

I am not sure that Livermore restricts target use but they only provide the one target. Many people bring their own preferred targets.

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by AAShooter

I am not sure that Livermore restricts target use but they only provide the one target. Many people bring their own preferred targets.

We've brought our own targets at Livermore. No issues.

Don't know if they restrict people type of targets though.


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[Flyin Brian]

Has anyone who is a member of one of the clubs at USI received any official word on what is going on there? I'm only a member of Walnut Creek currently, so I don't see what might be going out to Diablo members, which is why I'm asking.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed with how this is being handled. I received an email last week that simply stated the rifle and pistol ranges are "closed for maintenance". Nothing mentioned about bullet fragments or why it is suddenly closed.
Why can't they put out a notification to let us know what is going on? We pay our dues and support the club, now I feel like we are just being left in the dark about the situation.

Anyhow, I just got an email a few minutes ago saying Chabot is offering guest rates for usi club members during the closing which "may last 6 months or more".
Why the hell am I hearing 6 months from Chabot and not my own club?

[FromTheGrave]

Originally Posted by Flyin Brian

Has anyone who is a member of one of the clubs at USI received any official word on what is going on there? I'm only a member of Walnut Creek currently, so I don't see what might be going out to Diablo members, which is why I'm asking.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed with how this is being handled. I received an email last week that simply stated the rifle and pistol ranges are "closed for maintenance". Nothing mentioned about bullet fragments or why it is suddenly closed.
Why can't they put out a notification to let us know what is going on? We pay our dues and support the club, now I feel like we are just being left in the dark about the situation.

Anyhow, I just got an email a few minutes ago saying Chabot is offering guest rates for usi club members during the closing which "may last 6 months or more".
Why the hell am I hearing 6 months from Chabot and not my own club?

Nothing official so far. Some hints to mirror what Chabot says in this thread. If they have to change the direction of fire to the North vs East I could see it easily taking 6 months.

I will be attending the Diablo meeting on the 1st. Hopefully there will be an abundance of info by then.

[ShooterDK]

Originally Posted by FromTheGrave

On top of hours there was also the fatal negligent discharge as well as a pretty big fire.

Antis could easily find those justifiable reasons.

The hours have gone back to Winter hours and will probably stay there. The extended hours was a test and the results were not what they had hoped for.

The ND was a first time shooter who was unpacking a shotgun from his vehicle by the muzzle. There was a round in chamber and the gun somehow went off and hit him square in the chest.

The fire was caused by Coast Guard shooting full auto during a practice session.

[FromTheGrave]

Originally Posted by ShooterDK

The hours have gone back to Winter hours and will probably stay there. The extended hours was a test and the results were not what they had hoped for.

The ND was a first time shooter who was unpacking a shotgun from his vehicle by the muzzle. There was a round in chamber and the gun somehow went off and hit him square in the chest.

The fire was caused by Coast Guard shooting full auto during a practice session.

You're not telling me anything I didn't already know.

What does that have to do with antis using those as reasons to shut the club or any clubs down? That's what my post was in reference to. Any excuse is a good excuse. It doesn't matter if it's the Coast Guard or Satan himself. They're not going to miss an opportunity.

PS

The guy wasn't a "first time shooter". He was not a club member or regular from the range if that's what you're inferring.

Full auto doesn't start fires. Firing incendiary rounds starts fires.

[XDJYo]

Just got to Livermore. No waiting!!!


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by XDJYo

Just got to Livermore. No waiting!!!


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

Sweet.

[XDJYo]

Sweet and hot!!! It's Africa hot out here. Not sure why, but nobody else is shooting handguns here today. Everyone is shooting rifles.


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[mlgs00]

Livermore does not allow targets that have humans on them, so no hostage targets, for example. You can shoot zombies and sillouette targets. If the targets are larger than the target holder, they need to be folded to fit so you don't inadvertently shoot the target frames. You can shoot pistol or rifle from any bench at any distance from 10 yards to 100 yards. There are preset target bases at 10, 25, 50 and 100 yards. About half the lanes also now have a base at 35 yards.

Originally Posted by XDJYo

We've brought our own targets at Livermore. No issues.

Don't know if they restrict people type of targets though.


Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[liamettocs]

It's a shame I have to get all my news about this situation here. It would be nice if the club would communicate with its members. I'm a member and I haven't heard boo from the club.

[maylebox]

Originally Posted by XDJYo

Sweet and hot!!! It's Africa hot out here. Not sure why, but nobody else is shooting handguns here today. Everyone is shooting rifles.

A fellow CGer and I were there shooting handguns this morning. It was starting to get smoking hot around noon when we left. Concord closure forced a change of venue.

50BMGBOB Yes, all the shotgun, archery and knife ranges at USI are still open.

Archery and knives you say? Maybe it's time for me to start developing other skill sets

[Pauliedad]

Empalement Arts is what they call it.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind be able to throw a hatchet with some authority.

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by mlgs00

Livermore does not allow targets that have humans on them, so no hostage targets, for example. You can shoot zombies and sillouette targets. If the targets are larger than the target holder, they need to be folded to fit so you don't inadvertently shoot the target frames. You can shoot pistol or rifle from any bench at any distance from 10 yards to 100 yards. There are preset target bases at 10, 25, 50 and 100 yards. About half the lanes also now have a base at 35 yards.

It is a shame they have limited their targets to 10 yards and out. This is too far for most handgun shooters, especially beginning shooters. Many do drills at 5 and 7 yards . . . to bad they restrict you from doing this.

[Gryff]

Originally Posted by Pauliedad

I'm gonna predict it's coming from action pistol.
Those guys are responsible and safety minded as they come but it's just wide open there.

Given that every round fired has an Safety/Range Officer watching the shooter, I'm betting not. Unless DAP has record of a bunch of shooters being DQ'd for putting a round over the berm.

I've only shot one match there, but I'll tell you that it would be obvious to the safety officer if a shooter cracked one off over the berm. The gun would have to be disturbingly elevated to achieve that from the action pistol range.

[BigPimping]

The Richmond range would probably have a more acceptable climate.. I work right nearby and it doesn't really get too bad down here very often

[coy80176]

I got the notification just before I saw it here.

I was out at the 5 stand/skeet shoot today, and found out that while USI is under maintence, members will be recognized and get guests rates at Chabot. Pretty cool by Chabot...gonna have to check em out for sure.

Great time out there today WC Sportsmen, cheers!

Edit, email recv'd about members and Chabot:
"NOTICE TO ALL WALNUT CREEK AND USI CLUB MEMBERS!

The Chabot Gun Club has offered "guest" rates to our membership while the USI rifle & pistol ranges are closed for maintenance. *The USI range closure may be for six (6) months or more. *Our range operations are being evaluated by the Board of Directors to ensure our facilities meet or exceed all modern standards for shooting facilities. *Please visit the club website or the USI website for updates. *This is a generous offer from the folks at the Chabot Gun Club"

Sure hope usi gets things sorted out sooner than later....I got the MPR joneses real bad...need my happy place: