|
California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Quote:
|
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
I suppose a challenge to the new law that IL comes up with would be a separate case and not a continuance of the one just denied en banc, so a new, random 3 member panel would hear things. Regardless, even without the IL decision, I would bet that SCOTUS would grant cert. on Kachalsky, as the justices have been giving obvious public hints they'd like to flesh out the scope of the 2nd. |
#46
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
They can pass shall-issue with 6 month renewal and 40 hours of training 2x a year requirements at an outdoor range outside of city limits and high fees and forbidden sensitive places defined as 1500 feet from schools, parks, daycare centers and government buildings and that will take 12-18 months to litigate at the district court level. When they lose that they can come back with annual renewal with 20 hours of outdoor live fire training and sky high fees and new sensitive places laws and make printing a crime. That's another 18-24 months of litigation. Then they can declare having a traffic or parking violation a prohibited class for carry like NYC does for gun permits and that's another 12-18 months of litigation. That's why home rule firearm regulation needs to be ended before carry will be a reality in Chicago. Of course it is Chicago and the Chief of police can just put out the word that anyone discovered with a gun, even with a permit, is to be assumed to be reaching for it. After all superintendent Garry McCarthy has already pretty much said as much. http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/20...-citizens.html
__________________
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association Last edited by sholling; 02-22-2013 at 2:07 PM.. |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance" Quote for the day: Quote:
|
#49
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
That's what happened in McDonald v Chicago. Once the US Supreme Court applied Heller to the states (and Chicago) Chicago went from the complete ban on owning handguns that they lost on to tough licensing requirements that included range time and then banned all public ranges from operating within the city. Since then the city has been playing moving target with litigation against the ban with the result that people still have no place within the city to satisfy the training requirement and 3 years after McDonald V Chicago - Chicago residents without transportation are still effectively barred from having handguns with no end in sight.
__________________
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association Last edited by sholling; 02-22-2013 at 2:41 PM.. |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
The Kalchalsky ruling just quivered at the knees. I predict a B'slap and a Scalia-sized bootprint on it's soddy behind.
__________________
www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#51
|
||||
|
||||
That has to be QOTD (quote of the day). Nice!
|
#52
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#54
|
||||
|
||||
There are three likely outcomes and then I'll explain how this impacts California.
1. Madigan doesn't apply for Cert. There are lots of politics and even the other side knows we can count to 5. I haven't thought enough to be able to handicap this, but if that happens a Kachalsky has a near certainty of grant. 2. Upon a cert application, SCOTUS relists and holds Kachalsky until they grant both. Of #2 and #3, I only give this about a 10% chance. 3. Kachalsky is granted in the early April timeframe and Moore's cert petition gets relist/hold until the decision in Kachalsky is delivered. I give this about a 90% chance. As long as a carry case gets granted before June 2Xish 2013, we will have a decision on carry 5 (maybe 6) 4 (maybe 3) by the end of June 2014. Oral arguments are likely to take place in October/November. A decision could come as early as January, but the betting money is on late June 2014. That means that in July and August of 2014 we will be able to force almost all sheriffs to issue carry licenses in California and with a small amount of very quick mop up litigation, get them all issuing. The lines will be long and it will take a while to get past the initial crush, but buy June 2015, getting a carry license will be like getting a parade permit - even in California. -Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
|
#55
|
||||
|
||||
Not in my lifetime and I am a young man still. I have faith in dedication and zeal of Gene and the rest of the CGF and the others in this fight and I love their optimism, but they are underestimating California's overwhelming liberal executive, legislative, and executive branches and how much "cheat and retreat" they can do. The California Legislature will find every loop hole and drag this out for decades. Look at their docket now—full of the most restrictive legislation I have ever seen that they know will mostly fail in the courts.
__________________
Benefactor Life Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran, Black Ribbon in Memoriam for the deceased 2nd Amendment Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 02-22-2013 at 7:50 PM.. |
#56
|
||||
|
||||
Make it more like 2-3 years after a second round of "did you really mean what you said?" lawsuits, denials and the District and CA level and the resulting appeals.
__________________
Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools |
#57
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
One other hopeful point. If we get shall-issue with an objective standards requirement then that eliminates the need for the interview process which exists only as a secondary good cause and subjective moral character filter and eliminates the need for sworn office to be involved. That and interviewing friends and neighbors are what sucks up manpower. Once those two requirements are out then there is no reason for it to take any longer or have any more complexity than getting a drivers license. Present your training certificate and they run a DROS instead of a DMV check and it arrives in the mail 4 weeks later. Just keep that in the back of your mind for the post SCOTUS clean up cases. Quote:
__________________
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association |
#60
|
||||
|
||||
The George Wallace school of political footdragging hasn't had a very high success rate lately.
|
#61
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Quote:
|
#63
|
|||
|
|||
I think we can all bet on this and surely there is some serious strategy being contemplated about either going en banc or cert.
|
#64
|
||||
|
||||
Gun Owners will be an odd lot. You'll be able to find one that will tell you that their county is not shall issue for at least 5 years after they are. People really would not believe us that Sacramento County went virtually shall issue.
Quote:
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
|
#65
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I have to admit I waited until one of my Friends in Sacramento got their permit before I applied over 2 years ago |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Can't say any more than that...still stunned by Gene's hairy-eyed, anarchistic optimism...
__________________
|
#67
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#68
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed" "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785 |
#69
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Freedom of religion but only in the home unless you are a criminal alien or muslim Freedom to assemble but only in the home unless you are a criminal alien or muslim Due Process but only in the home unless you are a criminal alien or muslim |
#70
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'm not sure Kalchalsky is the case that SCOTUS has been waiting for but if we don't get cert on something this year or next then I think carry is likely a dead issue with SCOTUS and here in California - I just don't put much faith in the 9th Circus. Obomunist is likely to get one more court appointment and that is likely to slam the window shut in our face and they know it. What gives me hope is the idea that the justices are taking note of the left's orgy of anti-rights legislation and the backlash brewing and are ready to step in with a loud and clear message that the 2nd Amendment is a right not a privilege to be legislated out of existence. My hope is that they grant cert on carry soon and wrap magazine capacity into the ruling because President Hillary Clinton will appoint a string of antis during her 8 years and if we don't have a solid body of precedents before then they'll just start rolling back our rights until we're left with nothing.
__________________
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association Last edited by sholling; 02-23-2013 at 9:15 PM.. |
#71
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
There is precedent for the SCOTUS to say we find your system entirely unconstitutional, but we will give you time to fix it. They once ruled that the bankruptcy system in the US (as it stood then, not now) gave too much power to Bankruptcy judges and that congress had to make a choice and either make those judges article III judges with congressional approval and life time appointment or change the system is some big ways. It also meant that every decision they had made was technically unconstitutional. But to enforce that on the system would have meant such destruction and chaos on people's lives and on the system, the court said they would have time to make a new system.
Given the ostensible dangers of carry with out restrictions of any kind, I doubt the court would open the flood gates. Rather, they would say, you have so long to come up with a system that meets these requirements. Even our most fundamental rights have constitutionally valid restrictions like obscenity laws or libel laws restricting free speech because those types of unrestrained speech are harmful. SCOTUS can t ignore the legislative findings that there's is a need for some level of restriction on carry. Not to say that it won't mean shall issue, only that I think permits are likelY within the bounds of the constitution. How they are issued is were the rubber meet the road. Quote:
|
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by rootuser; 02-23-2013 at 9:53 PM.. Reason: I think it took him a year to get a permit actually. |
#74
|
||||
|
||||
This Note from Cornell Law Review was posted in another thread by Rossi357 and provides the analysis/result I think may ultimately shake out from the carry cases. Although there does not seem to another right with similar analysis, given history of prohibition on concealed carry, the articles posits that a state cannot completely prohibit the right to carry outside of the home for self-defense like CA, IL, and certain other states do. Rather, they must either allow either open carry and/or concealed carry so the right is not unduly burdened but can restrict and/or prohibit the other "alternative." If this happens I can see CA repealing the ban on open carry but keeping concealed carry much more difficult if not impossible to obtain. Even if legal, many will not want to open carry potentially creating a target for themselves to dirtbags and inviting police stops/interviews. The article's analysis comports with the rationale behind the recent refusal for en banc in 7th Circuit by Posner. Here is the link: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/res...shop-final.pdf. With that said, I try to remain optimistic and continue to support all that Gene, CalGuns, NRA, and 2nd Amendment Foundation are doing for us on this front. The author of the article supports shall issue concealed carry over open carry as both more practical and in line with the modern trend.
Last edited by Tyrone; 02-24-2013 at 3:39 AM.. |
#75
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'm keeping track of the "virtual shall issue" counties, but even those counties still require things that are in violation of the law, San Bernardino being the example. And while those counties are issuing, it seems that they are still slow to issue but quick to take a permit with the slightest reason. I'm not going to get all giddy about this until I see a new regulation in our favor that says an LEA MUST issue unless they have a compelling reason not to issue. And then I will only be happy AFTER I have the permit in my hand, because, like "good cause", "compelling reason" is subjective and in my experience LE has a tendency to lean toward an interpretation of the law that satisfies them and is restrictive to the general public.
__________________
Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#76
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The demand for permits far exceeds their capability of processing them. When I first got my permit over 2 years ago I had to call and hope someone answered the phone then I had to request an appointment. Even then before everyone knew they were shall issue the wait was over a month. Eventually they evolved to an online system and rapidly all the appointments filled up for over a year. I think they are doing pretty good considering how inundated they are but yes they could really improve on the process. |
#77
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
In addition, the reasoning that CA would prefer OC is flawed. For the antis this is a cultural war. They don't want normalization of guns and gun culture at all, let alone in such a visible manner as LOC. There were enough activists to go around while UOC-ing to upset the refined sensibilities of our betters. There would be much more people doing LOC if it was allowed. And, if the legislators willingly forced LOC over CC, there would be no legislative recourse once soccer moms started calling in. If anything, allowing LOC would be the most counterproductive path for the CA anti gun legislators to achieve their goal of cultural unacceptance of guns.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member |
#78
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|