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  #41  
Old 03-06-2017, 7:57 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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No matter how you go about you need to get all the lube off of the brass.
The lube keeps the brass from gripping the chamber which causes excessive bolt thrust.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-2017, 5:55 AM
nedro nedro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
No matter how you go about you need to get all the lube off of the brass.
The lube keeps the brass from gripping the chamber which causes excessive bolt thrust.
The thing is that if you get 5 to 10 times more reloads out of a lot of brass, it more than pays for it.
My 6.8 runs pressures in the 58,000 psi range. Sometimes in the 60,000+ range.
An enhanced bolt from ARP is $83.00 dollars. I actually have two of those and a third regular strength bolt in 6.8spc. At least in my case, it wouldn't be a big deal. Probably a different case with bolt guns.
BTW, ARP sells those bolts for 223/556, and other calibers.

Last edited by nedro; 03-07-2017 at 5:59 AM..
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  #43  
Old 03-07-2017, 8:48 AM
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6mmintl 6mmintl is offline
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Ive tried rcbs sizing lube and it a pain.

I use lee paste diluted 15x1 water, lube by volumn.

I dont know what lube you use but recommend put brass in bucket, spray cases with simple green, fill up with hot water, shake for a couple of minutes, flush and rinse with really hot water, drain, and put brass neck down in plastic pistol cartridge trays, blow water out of primer holes and let dry on top of hot water heater 2 days.
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  #44  
Old 03-07-2017, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6mmintl View Post
Ive tried rcbs sizing lube and it a pain.

I use lee paste diluted 15x1 water, lube by volumn.

I dont know what lube you use but recommend put brass in bucket, spray cases with simple green, fill up with hot water, shake for a couple of minutes, flush and rinse with really hot water, drain, and put brass neck down in plastic pistol cartridge trays, blow water out of primer holes and let dry on top of hot water heater 2 days.
I make my own - 1:8 ratio of lanolin and 99% Isopropyl Alcohol. Buy a spray bottle at the 99 cent store, and you're in business. Works gas good or better than commercial lubes, and for about $10-$15 you'll have a lifetime supply.

I got the Lanolin from Whole Foods and the alcohol from Safeway, but they are easily available online.
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  #45  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:50 AM
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Never have, never will.
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  #46  
Old 03-07-2017, 12:04 PM
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I deprime, resize, tumble and then trim my rifle brass. That way the brass is nice and shiny which makes it easier to inspect each case prior to triming.
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  #47  
Old 03-08-2017, 9:44 AM
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Can you get bolt thrust in a semi-auto? Isn't the action itself based on bolt thrust to cycle the action?
Back when I started to reload in the early '70s, there were two conditions the manuals mentioned that needed to be met where removing lube were called for:
1) pressure over 60,000 psi
and
2) a rear-locking action.
With lube on the case and those two conditions, it was possible (though still not likely) that the bolt could flex and lock up the action.
Even then, all they recommended was a quick light wipe with a rag.
Thus, I saw no reason to remove the lube and haven't in all that time and never had a problem.
Thus, you "should" remove the lube just for general "proper procedure," but I really don't see it as being as critical as so many make it out to be—even if based solely on my own experience.
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  #48  
Old 03-08-2017, 1:40 PM
nedro nedro is offline
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I've used Lee case lube that came with the turret press, Royal Case and Die Lube, and RCBS Case Lube-2.
Ease of wiping off in order;
RCBS
Lee
Royal
Ease of use in order;
Royal
RCBS
Lee
Which one made the press not stick the most in order;
Lee
Royal
RCBS
Which one was the nicest to work with (not including the actually cleaning off of the cases) in order;
Royal
RCBS
Lee

All three have their good and bad points.
I will be getting some imperial case wax to try next.
The good thing is that this experimenting is relatively cheap.
The bad part is the wiping down of the cases.
I told you that I tumbled my last batch of cases and was going to let you know what they look like, but have been very busy. I will try to do that tonight.
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  #49  
Old 03-09-2017, 8:00 AM
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Lee would come off with a slightly damp rag.
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  #50  
Old 03-09-2017, 8:31 AM
nedro nedro is offline
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Well here are some that I tumbled after sizing.
They most certainly roll the edges over.
Is it bad or does it ruin anything? I will see when I start reloading them.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #51  
Old 03-09-2017, 9:22 AM
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Metal God Metal God is offline
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Tumbling after trimming has no more effect on consistency then if you chamfered some cases with 3.5 twist while others only 2.75 twists . In some cases and trimmers smoothing out the tool marks from your trimmer could be helpful .

As to using lubed cases in the chamber when fired
Lubed cases causing excessive bolt thrust would be my concern . Keeping in mind that a chamber with bolt closed is not air tight and can not hold air pressure even if the barrel was plugged . How then can your cartridge produce 62k psi . Well as we all know the case rapidly expands sealing the chamber . Let me add that below what I'm talking about here is traditional modern small arms . I'm not talking old military machine guns or other guns the actually require/d lubing the chamber/cases in order to function properly under high rates of fire and heat .

First lets consider BartB and how he describes the chain of events . The firing pin hits the primer shoving the cartridge fully forward until it stops where ever it head spaces . Almost instantaneous but just after that the case expands and seals the chamber sticking to the chamber walls leaving space between the bolt face and head of the case . I call this head clearance .

Now lets talk case stretch . Anyone here ever load a light charge and upon extraction find that the primer has pushed out a little . That is do to there not being enough chamber pressure to stretch the case back to the bolt face closing that head clearance gap reseating the primer . Every cartridge and brand of brass will differ but there is a pressure point where the case will start to stretch back to the bolt face from that fully forward position from the firing pin strike . As Slamfire showed in the first pictures the more space ( head clearance ) you have between the bolt face and head of the case when fired the more stretch rearward you will have resulting in the case walls thinning do to that stretch . This is the very reason minimal sizing extends case life . If you only bump the shoulder .001 , that's all the room ( head clearance ) the case has to stretch . How ever if you bump the shoulder back .006 it will stretch that much reducing your number of possible reloads for that case .

OK now assuming what I just wrote is correct , how much pressure is needed to stretch the case back . Obviously there are differences from caliber to caliber but lets just play with a general number of 62k psi is your max pressure . When we see those types of max pressures for a cartridge . The minimum charge is often around 52k . I personally have had primers push out on minimum loads before so lets just say 50k psi will not stretch the case back to the bolt face keeping in mind these are just made up numbers for illustration to get the picture in your mind but do represent close chamber pressures in general .

This means your bolt should only ever need to withstand 12k psi of force directed upon it because the other 50k psi is being confined to the case stuck to the chamber walls . Then there's the fact many of us don't even load to max pressures which means for most of us there is not even that much force being thrust back at/to the bolt .

Alright now lets talk lubed cases in the chamber . Let me first say I have no idea what the numbers would be . How ever if your case is unable to stick to the chamber walls after the firing pin pushes it forward or the case is allowed to freely expand rearward against the bolt face with out sticking to the chamber walls . How much more pressure/force is being exerted on that bolt that was never intended to withstand that much force ? Again this is a real question because I have no idea what that may be or even if it's bad . It just seems that based on my understand of internal ballistics as explain above . A lubed case would put more force/pressure on the bolt then was ever intended . Would that cause premature wear on the lugs ? What about the part of the receiver the lugs lock up to or in the AR's case the barrel extension ? Would this over time increase headspace ??
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Last edited by Metal God; 03-10-2017 at 6:25 PM..
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