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#41
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No matter how you go about you need to get all the lube off of the brass.
The lube keeps the brass from gripping the chamber which causes excessive bolt thrust.
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Lynn Dragoman, Jr. Southwest Regional Director Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) www.unlimitedrange.org Not a commercial business. URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards! |
#42
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My 6.8 runs pressures in the 58,000 psi range. Sometimes in the 60,000+ range. An enhanced bolt from ARP is $83.00 dollars. I actually have two of those and a third regular strength bolt in 6.8spc. At least in my case, it wouldn't be a big deal. Probably a different case with bolt guns. BTW, ARP sells those bolts for 223/556, and other calibers. Last edited by nedro; 03-07-2017 at 5:59 AM.. |
#43
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Ive tried rcbs sizing lube and it a pain.
I use lee paste diluted 15x1 water, lube by volumn. I dont know what lube you use but recommend put brass in bucket, spray cases with simple green, fill up with hot water, shake for a couple of minutes, flush and rinse with really hot water, drain, and put brass neck down in plastic pistol cartridge trays, blow water out of primer holes and let dry on top of hot water heater 2 days. |
#44
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I got the Lanolin from Whole Foods and the alcohol from Safeway, but they are easily available online.
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Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks." |
#47
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Can you get bolt thrust in a semi-auto? Isn't the action itself based on bolt thrust to cycle the action?
Back when I started to reload in the early '70s, there were two conditions the manuals mentioned that needed to be met where removing lube were called for: 1) pressure over 60,000 psi and 2) a rear-locking action. With lube on the case and those two conditions, it was possible (though still not likely) that the bolt could flex and lock up the action. Even then, all they recommended was a quick light wipe with a rag. Thus, I saw no reason to remove the lube and haven't in all that time and never had a problem. Thus, you "should" remove the lube just for general "proper procedure," but I really don't see it as being as critical as so many make it out to be—even if based solely on my own experience. |
#48
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I've used Lee case lube that came with the turret press, Royal Case and Die Lube, and RCBS Case Lube-2.
Ease of wiping off in order; RCBS Lee Royal Ease of use in order; Royal RCBS Lee Which one made the press not stick the most in order; Lee Royal RCBS Which one was the nicest to work with (not including the actually cleaning off of the cases) in order; Royal RCBS Lee All three have their good and bad points. I will be getting some imperial case wax to try next. The good thing is that this experimenting is relatively cheap. The bad part is the wiping down of the cases. I told you that I tumbled my last batch of cases and was going to let you know what they look like, but have been very busy. I will try to do that tonight. |
#51
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Tumbling after trimming has no more effect on consistency then if you chamfered some cases with 3.5 twist while others only 2.75 twists . In some cases and trimmers smoothing out the tool marks from your trimmer could be helpful .
As to using lubed cases in the chamber when fired Lubed cases causing excessive bolt thrust would be my concern . Keeping in mind that a chamber with bolt closed is not air tight and can not hold air pressure even if the barrel was plugged . How then can your cartridge produce 62k psi . Well as we all know the case rapidly expands sealing the chamber . Let me add that below what I'm talking about here is traditional modern small arms . I'm not talking old military machine guns or other guns the actually require/d lubing the chamber/cases in order to function properly under high rates of fire and heat . First lets consider BartB and how he describes the chain of events . The firing pin hits the primer shoving the cartridge fully forward until it stops where ever it head spaces . Almost instantaneous but just after that the case expands and seals the chamber sticking to the chamber walls leaving space between the bolt face and head of the case . I call this head clearance . Now lets talk case stretch . Anyone here ever load a light charge and upon extraction find that the primer has pushed out a little . That is do to there not being enough chamber pressure to stretch the case back to the bolt face closing that head clearance gap reseating the primer . Every cartridge and brand of brass will differ but there is a pressure point where the case will start to stretch back to the bolt face from that fully forward position from the firing pin strike . As Slamfire showed in the first pictures the more space ( head clearance ) you have between the bolt face and head of the case when fired the more stretch rearward you will have resulting in the case walls thinning do to that stretch . This is the very reason minimal sizing extends case life . If you only bump the shoulder .001 , that's all the room ( head clearance ) the case has to stretch . How ever if you bump the shoulder back .006 it will stretch that much reducing your number of possible reloads for that case . OK now assuming what I just wrote is correct , how much pressure is needed to stretch the case back . Obviously there are differences from caliber to caliber but lets just play with a general number of 62k psi is your max pressure . When we see those types of max pressures for a cartridge . The minimum charge is often around 52k . I personally have had primers push out on minimum loads before so lets just say 50k psi will not stretch the case back to the bolt face keeping in mind these are just made up numbers for illustration to get the picture in your mind but do represent close chamber pressures in general . This means your bolt should only ever need to withstand 12k psi of force directed upon it because the other 50k psi is being confined to the case stuck to the chamber walls . Then there's the fact many of us don't even load to max pressures which means for most of us there is not even that much force being thrust back at/to the bolt . Alright now lets talk lubed cases in the chamber . Let me first say I have no idea what the numbers would be . How ever if your case is unable to stick to the chamber walls after the firing pin pushes it forward or the case is allowed to freely expand rearward against the bolt face with out sticking to the chamber walls . How much more pressure/force is being exerted on that bolt that was never intended to withstand that much force ? Again this is a real question because I have no idea what that may be or even if it's bad . It just seems that based on my understand of internal ballistics as explain above . A lubed case would put more force/pressure on the bolt then was ever intended . Would that cause premature wear on the lugs ? What about the part of the receiver the lugs lock up to or in the AR's case the barrel extension ? Would this over time increase headspace ??
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Tolerate allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again Last edited by Metal God; 03-10-2017 at 6:25 PM.. |
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