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  #81  
Old 03-12-2019, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by billvau View Post
I'm glad it helped you. It was good for me to think it through too. We always prefer an obvious "Thou shall not..." but that's not the way God's Word works most of the time. And, it's good to regularly reason from Scripture as Christ did in the Gospels. Paul is another great example to learn from (Romans 9-11 especially). I just got done teaching how Peter did it in 1 Peter 2:1-10.

I, too, am surprised that you didn't get other perspectives. I have a close Mormon friend that I bike race with every Saturday morning. If I remember, I'll ask him this week. He loves to debate beliefs and hear the biblical perspective.

And, yes, you'd expect a lot of chaff on a post like this! I commend you for being willing to ask! You've got my prayers now!

Have a blessed day!

Bill
Thank you Bill I can use them. This has been a good informative thread minus the immaturity which I expected.

When I was still attending church this was not really something I was wanting to bring up although I was curious. Not like they were going to have a sermon on it either.
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  #82  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:47 AM
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For myself yes but I am actually curious what other religions may feel. Would you care to fill us in on what Buddhism says about this if anything?
the third precept in Buddhism is to refrain from acts of sexual misconduct.
The Buddha himself never lectured on the sexual behaviors of lay practitioners. the only people who were supposed to remain celibate were monks and nuns.

to the best of my knowledge the only tradition to apply sexual misconduct to specific sex acts is Tibetan buddhism. in Tibetan Buddhism or*l/an*l is a no no. The Dalai Llama has spoken on the subject and considers it to be sexual misconduct. possibly some schools in the theravada tradition are like this also, but i am not really sure, i do not follow the Theravada tradition.

i follow a japaneses school of buddhism in the Mahayana tradition. sexual misconduct is sexual acts done without consent, exploitative in nature, cause harm to others, or become an addiction that interferes with your life/relationships. sex of any kind with a willing partner is cool as long as the partner is not in a relationship with someone else or under the age of legal consent. this is generally the view taken by most Mahayana Buddhist practitioners.

Buddhism is not overly concerned with the sexual activities of lay practitioners, what you and your partner do in your home is not of great importance as long as it is not causing harm.
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  #83  
Old 03-13-2019, 1:46 AM
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Great thread: call the janitor for the "best thread of the year!"
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  #84  
Old 03-13-2019, 5:20 AM
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Thank you Bill I can use them. This has been a good informative thread minus the immaturity which I expected.

When I was still attending church this was not really something I was wanting to bring up although I was curious. Not like they were going to have a sermon on it either.
I smiled when you said there isn't going to be a sermon on this! Same reason most pastors won't preach the Song of Solomon (very graphic)! In a lot of churches, "sin" is too strong a topic to preach! And, then even farther to the left, anything from the Bible is forbidden!

To be honest, these are awkward conversations in private marriage counseling...

I hope you can find a good church some day.

God bless,
Bill
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  #85  
Old 03-13-2019, 7:54 AM
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You are some sort of Odinist or Ásatrú? I think Wiccans have sex at their church or whatever you call it but never really thought about what Heathens think about sodomy. Sorry if I'm using wrong terms I'm far from an expert in any of that.
Yes, a Heathen- one who gives honor to the Aesir and Vanir. In the modern application of Heathenry, getting to 5th base is a religious non-issue, same as it was in AD 793.

There are exceptions of course. For example, don't get to 5th base with another man's wife/wives. Serious "no bueno".

As far as "wiccans" go...don't know and don't care. Heathens are about as related to wiccans as squid are to saber toothed tigers. Though, Heathenry has had a recent influx of former wiccans who realized the 1990's are over. But if wiccan Playmate Fiona Horne wanted a 5th base understanding of Heathenry, I would totally take her to Valhalla.

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  #86  
Old 03-13-2019, 8:44 AM
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the third precept in Buddhism is to refrain from acts of sexual misconduct.
The Buddha himself never lectured on the sexual behaviors of lay practitioners. the only people who were supposed to remain celibate were monks and nuns.

to the best of my knowledge the only tradition to apply sexual misconduct to specific sex acts is Tibetan buddhism. in Tibetan Buddhism or*l/an*l is a no no. The Dalai Llama has spoken on the subject and considers it to be sexual misconduct. possibly some schools in the theravada tradition are like this also, but i am not really sure, i do not follow the Theravada tradition.

i follow a japaneses school of buddhism in the Mahayana tradition. sexual misconduct is sexual acts done without consent, exploitative in nature, cause harm to others, or become an addiction that interferes with your life/relationships. sex of any kind with a willing partner is cool as long as the partner is not in a relationship with someone else or under the age of legal consent. this is generally the view taken by most Mahayana Buddhist practitioners.

Buddhism is not overly concerned with the sexual activities of lay practitioners, what you and your partner do in your home is not of great importance as long as it is not causing harm.
Thank you I found that interesting and informative. I've always found Buddhism to be interesting especially the concept of karma and reincarnation.
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  #87  
Old 03-13-2019, 8:47 AM
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I smiled when you said there isn't going to be a sermon on this! Same reason most pastors won't preach the Song of Solomon (very graphic)! In a lot of churches, "sin" is too strong a topic to preach! And, then even farther to the left, anything from the Bible is forbidden!

To be honest, these are awkward conversations in private marriage counseling...

I hope you can find a good church some day.

God bless,
Bill
I plan on it once I move out of CA I promised God I'd find a good church once I do so.

I've always found the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and the pillar of salt to be very interesting as well. I can see why those towns were destroyed! "Send them out so we may know them." Some things never change I guess.
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  #88  
Old 03-13-2019, 8:48 AM
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Yes, a Heathen- one who gives honor to the Aesir and Vanir. In the modern application of Heathenry, getting to 5th base is a religious non-issue, same as it was in AD 793.

There are exceptions of course. For example, don't get to 5th base with another man's wife/wives. Serious "no bueno".

As far as "wiccans" go...don't know and don't care. Heathens are about as related to wiccans as squid are to saber toothed tigers. Though, Heathenry has had a recent influx of former wiccans who realized the 1990's are over. But if wiccan Playmate Fiona Horne wanted a 5th base understanding of Heathenry, I would totally take her to Valhalla.

She is quite beautiful. I can see where many religions would have a prohibition against adultery for good reason.
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  #89  
Old 03-18-2019, 4:52 PM
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Wow..... And I get scolded for MILF of the week???🤣😂
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  #90  
Old 05-18-2019, 9:32 AM
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I......have always been curious.......as to why there is a need to have a religious sub forum in a gun forum ?
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  #91  
Old 05-18-2019, 9:59 AM
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Don't poo-poo this thread, it's a gas
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  #92  
Old 05-18-2019, 12:24 PM
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Some of the Biblical passages get even more interesting if one understands some of idioms (Euphemisms) being used in the verses.
Unfortunately, many religions/groups don't want to acknowledge these idioms, because by acknowledging those uses in some places causes problems in other places.
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  #93  
Old 05-18-2019, 12:27 PM
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I......have always been curious.......as to why there is a need to have a religious sub forum in a gun forum ?
This place was made so religious folks could have a safe space on cgn to talk about religion stuff. Whenever Christian or other faith topics were posted in OT things would get heated between believers and non believers.
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  #94  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Wow..... And I get scolded for MILF of the week???🤣😂
I thought your threads were GiLF of the week.
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Old 05-21-2019, 4:15 PM
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This is an epic thread. Much enjoy! Very nice!
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  #96  
Old 05-22-2019, 3:51 AM
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  #97  
Old 05-24-2019, 8:59 PM
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First, Heb. 13:4 doesn't apply to this. It covers adultery, etc.

Second, marriage serves several purposes. One of the most important is that it models/shows Christ's love for the church (Eph. 5:25-33). That is sacrificial love, by the way (but more than that too).

Third, sex is a wedding gift and serves two purposes - procreation and pleasure for BOTH spouses.

Fourth, love is sacrificial (Eph. 5:1-2). Everything you do in marriage is to be sacrificial (husbands are commanded this in Eph. 5:25f - even to illustrated by how we take care of our own body). Sacrificial - not selfish.

Fifth, your body / her body is a Temple of the Holy Spirit. Your most basic identification as a Christian is being "in Christ" and "Christ in you." (e.g. Col. 1:17; Eph. 1:3-14; 1 Cor. 6).

Sixth, we are never ever ever to ask another Christian to violate their conscience (1 Cor. 8, 1 Cor. 10, Romans 14).

Last, God designed the male and female body with parts that serve specific purposes. The proper use of the body does not involve pain or damage. The proper use of the body for sex brings great/most pleasure - to BOTH at the same time (obviously assuming no health issues).

So, is there a verse that says, "Thou shalt not..."? No. But, the Bible is clear on what is proper sex, what is proper use of the body, what is proper love (sacrificial), proper relationships (not violating consciences), etc.

there's probably more biblical principles I missed, but I've finished my coffee break. If more come to mind, I'll post again.

If you go through that list, you'll find oral to most likely be OK for most couples. Anal fails all of them on the list. Read all the passages I quoted and think them through carefully. To me, Ephesians 5:25-33 is brutal and so is 1 Cor. 6:19-20...

Eph. 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

1 Cor. 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
None of this makes any sense...
The OP never said the wife does not enjoy it. It very well may be that she enjoys it more than him.

Love can be sacrificial but does not always have to be. Furthermore in every sacrificial relationship one party must be sacrificing and the other receiving the sacrifice. If what you said was true, when you make a sacrifice "for " God, He is not loving you.

If a wife being the temple of holy spirit means you cant you can not pecker in her, then you got bigger problems.
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  #98  
Old 05-24-2019, 9:01 PM
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Anything other than missionary style with the lights out is probably sin. Just ask the pope.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:05 PM
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There are some things in life that are clear cut right and wrong.

There are some things that can be right or wrong depending on context.

And there are some things that will be murky gray from our perspective no matter what.

If you think there's some angel tabulating every deed and misdeed you commit and recording them all (you spat gum on the sidewalk when you were 10, SHAME! This will come back to haunt you at the judgment 70 years later) then I think you have a concept of God that most would reject. If your concept of God is a cosmic meanie that obsesses over trivial infractions while allowing genocidal maniacs to operate unfettered then your logic will escape most of us.

If you think that every sexual act outside the bare necessities of reproductive copulation is a sin... then I don't think you have a concept of God that many today would embrace. There are so many challenges and disappointments in life, would any God with our best interests at heart deny us any solace we could find within the bounds of marital fidelity?

If you think a volume of inspired works written 2k+ years ago can cover every modern development without SOME logical extension and adaptation... then by the same logic you think the 2nd Amendment applies only to muskets.

Are 2 married people keeping it real, loving each other, caring for each other, having a good time together and living their lives in an otherwise pleasing manner? My hunch is the Big Guy upstairs cares a hell of a lot more about that than whether they French kiss or do role play or score a bit of back door action if they are both into it.

There are folks in this world who will OBSESS over what scripture says and never give a care about what it MEANS for the sake of winning the argument of how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin. Don't be one of them.

You know, that Jesus guy got asked one time if he thought it was wrong to eat forbidden foods. He replied that what comes out of someone's mouth was capable of doing a lot more damage to him than what goes in. The same is likely true IMHO when you consider the torrent of feces that comes out of a lot of strictly missionary position married couples, directed at each other, spawned by resentment and pettiness... vs the small amount of literal feces exchanged by some truly loving couples giving the gift of pleasure to each other. If you think there's a God who smiles on the former and frowns on the latter (or even considers them in the same league) ... I'm not sure many of us would want to know Him. If that's REALLY your concept of God then I'm surprised Lucifer doesn't start to sound like a reasonable option to you.
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  #100  
Old 05-25-2019, 5:03 AM
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Anything other than missionary style with the lights out is probably sin. Just ask the pope.
I actually had a guy at work say this very thing. I'm still trying to find it in the Bible.
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:32 AM
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If the pope doesn’t play the game, he shouldn’t make the rules.
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:39 AM
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There are some things in life that are clear cut right and wrong.

There are some things that can be right or wrong depending on context.

And there are some things that will be murky gray from our perspective no matter what.

If you think there's some angel tabulating every deed and misdeed you commit and recording them all (you spat gum on the sidewalk when you were 10, SHAME! This will come back to haunt you at the judgment 70 years later) then I think you have a concept of God that most would reject. If your concept of God is a cosmic meanie that obsesses over trivial infractions while allowing genocidal maniacs to operate unfettered then your logic will escape most of us.

If you think that every sexual act outside the bare necessities of reproductive copulation is a sin... then I don't think you have a concept of God that many today would embrace. There are so many challenges and disappointments in life, would any God with our best interests at heart deny us any solace we could find within the bounds of marital fidelity?

If you think a volume of inspired works written 2k+ years ago can cover every modern development without SOME logical extension and adaptation... then by the same logic you think the 2nd Amendment applies only to muskets.

Are 2 married people keeping it real, loving each other, caring for each other, having a good time together and living their lives in an otherwise pleasing manner? My hunch is the Big Guy upstairs cares a hell of a lot more about that than whether they French kiss or do role play or score a bit of back door action if they are both into it.

There are folks in this world who will OBSESS over what scripture says and never give a care about what it MEANS for the sake of winning the argument of how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin. Don't be one of them.

You know, that Jesus guy got asked one time if he thought it was wrong to eat forbidden foods. He replied that what comes out of someone's mouth was capable of doing a lot more damage to him than what goes in. The same is likely true IMHO when you consider the torrent of feces that comes out of a lot of strictly missionary position married couples, directed at each other, spawned by resentment and pettiness... vs the small amount of literal feces exchanged by some truly loving couples giving the gift of pleasure to each other. If you think there's a God who smiles on the former and frowns on the latter (or even considers them in the same league) ... I'm not sure many of us would want to know Him. If that's REALLY your concept of God then I'm surprised Lucifer doesn't start to sound like a reasonable option to you.
The last thing that Christianity is about is what other people "embrace". In fact, if the world is for it then the bible is against it. That said, the marraige bed is not defiled. Hebrews 13:4
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Old 05-25-2019, 7:47 AM
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Go away.
^^^THIS^^^
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:50 PM
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None of this makes any sense...
The OP never said the wife does not enjoy it. It very well may be that she enjoys it more than him.

Love can be sacrificial but does not always have to be. Furthermore in every sacrificial relationship one party must be sacrificing and the other receiving the sacrifice. If what you said was true, when you make a sacrifice "for " God, He is not loving you.

If a wife being the temple of holy spirit means you cant you can not pecker in her, then you got bigger problems.
I appreciate your honesty. It's only going to make sense to a Christian who puts God's absolute sovereignty over relativistic humanism. Think about it, how many things can you think of that are wrong, even if two people agree to it? Someone with a seared conscience (1 Tim. 4:2) may readily agree to many sinful things that they shouldn't.

God says that love is ALWAYS sacrificial (Eph. 5:2,25). That's always an attitude a Christian must have and usually in action too. But, sin is never an acceptable sacrifice. God's love for us and our sacrifice for our wives are not trade-offs. We make many sacrifices to God (do you know the verses?). That's how we show our love for Him.

I don't expect to believe/accept the things of the Bible. I do appreciate being able to share them here for others to see - and maybe you'll consider them too.

God bless,
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Old 05-26-2019, 1:18 PM
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I appreciate your honesty. It's only going to make sense to a Christian who puts God's absolute sovereignty over relativistic humanism.
Thank you for telling us why you are wrong. I will pray you completely embrace the awesomeness of God in all His glory so you eyes can be further opened.
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Old 05-26-2019, 2:38 PM
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Thank you for telling us why you are wrong. I will pray you completely embrace the awesomeness of God in all His glory so you eyes can be further opened.
The reason I quote Scripture, in-context, with a proper hermeneutic is so that it's clear that you're telling God that He is wrong based on your own personal opinion. How do we know it's your opinion? You quote no external source of truth (which you'd have to do properly too).

To embrace the awesomeness of God in all His glory you have to embrace all His sovereignty as seen in what He's revealed of Himself in His revelation, the Bible.

Thanks for your personal opinion. I'll take God through His word, though.

In Christ,
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Old 05-27-2019, 6:37 AM
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The reason I quote Scripture, in-context, with a proper hermeneutic is so that it's clear that you're telling God that He is wrong based on your own personal opinion. How do we know it's your opinion? You quote no external source of truth (which you'd have to do properly too).

To embrace the awesomeness of God in all His glory you have to embrace all His sovereignty as seen in what He's revealed of Himself in His revelation, the Bible.

Thanks for your personal opinion. I'll take God through His word, though.

In Christ,
/yawn. That was boring

In the end, I believe God is sovereign over the marriage bed, and you believe the sovereignty of God does not cover the marriage bed.

You believe love requires perpetual sacrifice, I do not. Because you believe love requires perpetual sacrifice, you believe Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are peptuallt sacrificing for not only each other but for all of creation. I believe the Sacrifice of Jesus was perfect, and once and for all sufficient.

BTW. Eph 5:2 and Eph 5:25 points to a single sacrifice not a continual one. Your claim that you quote scripture in context is untruthful, and deceptive. I will leave it to individual readers to determine if you motive is willingness or ignorance.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:34 PM
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/yawn. That was boring

In the end, I believe God is sovereign over the marriage bed, and you believe the sovereignty of God does not cover the marriage bed.

You believe love requires perpetual sacrifice, I do not. Because you believe love requires perpetual sacrifice, you believe Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are peptuallt sacrificing for not only each other but for all of creation. I believe the Sacrifice of Jesus was perfect, and once and for all sufficient.

BTW. Eph 5:2 and Eph 5:25 points to a single sacrifice not a continual one. Your claim that you quote scripture in context is untruthful, and deceptive. I will leave it to individual readers to determine if you motive is willingness or ignorance.
Eph. 5:2,25 are present active imperatives. Look, I believe what Scripture teaches, nothing more, nothing less. Those imperatives are present and active - to us. Do you understand Greek tense, voice and mood? If so, you have choice - obey or sin.
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Old 05-27-2019, 2:58 PM
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I would be very cautious about going other places in the Bible to find sources stating God's principles because the Law doesn't cover something.
I was raised Seventh Day Adventist, and many of them teach that drinking alcohol (alcoholic beverages) is a sin. Based on verses like, "wine is a mocker and strong drink raging". Yet that idea clearly contradicts the 8 commands (Thou Shalts) in Leviticus (the Law) to give the priests fermented wine(Hebrew word, "yayin"), and the command in Deuteronomy to buy strong drink and wine with tithe monies.
In essence, there little difference between looking for other principles because one doesn't like what the Law says, and looking for other principles ( sources) because of what the Law doesn't say.
If God wanted to make something a sin, He would have said so and added to the 613 Laws He gave to Moses. JMHO.

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Old 05-27-2019, 6:54 PM
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Eph. 5:2,25 are present active imperatives. Look, I believe what Scripture teaches, nothing more, nothing less. Those imperatives are present and active - to us. Do you understand Greek tense, voice and mood? If so, you have choice - obey or sin.
Active imperatives are not required to be perpetual. Declaring that a man should work is an active imperative, that does not mean it is required a man work 24/4. Everything a man does need not be work to fulfill that imperative.

You believe what you want to believe and torture scripture to make yourself feel good about it.
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