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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #321  
Old 01-09-2014, 4:27 PM
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Ill do one better.

http://calgunsfoundation.org/wp-cont...0/SanMateo.pdf
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  #322  
Old 01-09-2014, 4:31 PM
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http://www.cityofsanmateo.org/index.aspx?nid=665
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  #323  
Old 01-09-2014, 5:35 PM
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....San Carlos would apply with county Sheriff too, I would imagine.

Good information.
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  #324  
Old 01-09-2014, 5:38 PM
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....San Carlos would apply with county Sheriff too, I would imagine.

Good information.
And Millbrae
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  #325  
Old 01-09-2014, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
It now appears that San Mateo county will only issue to unincorporated residents of the county as a stand alone agency.

If you are in an incorporated city, you must now apply with the local Chief of Police.
The policy quoted here -> http://www.cityofsanmateo.org/index.aspx?NID=665

has been on the SMPD site for at least the last several years (I remember reading it in 2010).

The CGF-hosted document is odd. It makes reference in places to 1/1/1999 - 7/1/1999 for 1 year renewals, but I'm guessing it's post-2008, since that's when Trisha Sanchez became Assistant Sheriff. However, it could also have been a "crap we need a policy/document, dust off the existing one, update headers and push it out the door."

Regardless, it appears the paper document is at odds with reality and statute. It's no secret to the administrative staff where I live, where I lived when I applied 19 months ago, and where I live now when I called last week to schedule my range time for renewal. I wasn't even asked/instructed to do any paperwork. Just scheduled the range time, told to bring guns and ammo, then to head to the SO a week after with a check, etc.

And FWIW, I have no insider connection to the Sheriff, or special influence.

Oh, also, assuming the metadata is correct, the document was created/scanned in March 2013. I can point to at least 2 people who received CCW's after March 2013, residing in incorporated cities in San Mateo County.
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  #326  
Old 01-09-2014, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
The policy quoted here -> http://www.cityofsanmateo.org/index.aspx?NID=665

has been on the SMPD site for at least the last several years (I remember reading it in 2010).

The CGF-hosted document is odd. It makes reference in places to 1/1/1999 - 7/1/1999 for 1 year renewals, but I'm guessing it's post-2008, since that's when Trisha Sanchez became Assistant Sheriff. However, it could also have been a "crap we need a policy/document, dust off the existing one, update headers and push it out the door."

Regardless, it appears the paper document is at odds with reality and statute. It's no secret to the administrative staff where I live, where I lived when I applied 19 months ago, and where I live now when I called last week to schedule my range time for renewal. I wasn't even asked/instructed to do any paperwork. Just scheduled the range time, told to bring guns and ammo, then to head to the SO a week after with a check, etc.

And FWIW, I have no insider connection to the Sheriff, or special influence.

Oh, also, assuming the metadata is correct, the document was created/scanned in March 2013. I can point to at least 2 people who received CCW's after March 2013, residing in incorporated cities in San Mateo County.
I understand your point but in the LTC section of the forum (the general discussion) A San Bruno resident was rejected by the SO and told he needed to go through the Chief of Police in San Bruno first. Thats why i researched and pulled all this stuff up.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=877321
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  #327  
Old 01-10-2014, 6:43 AM
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And Millbrae
I thought Millbrae has a local PD? The only reason I said San Carlos is that we lost our local PD a few years ago, and now are patrolled by the Sheriff Dept.
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  #328  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:14 AM
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I thought Millbrae has a local PD? The only reason I said San Carlos is that we lost our local PD a few years ago, and now are patrolled by the Sheriff Dept.
Actually, the SMCSO took over Millbrae before they took over San Carlos for the same reason. Millbrae cars but Deputies in them.
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  #329  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:31 AM
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Got it. But now it's just adding to the confusion about what is or isn't going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
I understand your point but in the LTC section of the forum (the general discussion) A San Bruno resident was rejected by the SO and told he needed to go through the Chief of Police in San Bruno first. Thats why i researched and pulled all this stuff up.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=877321
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  #330  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:36 AM
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Got it. But now it's just adding to the confusion about what is or isn't going on.
Sounds like the Chiefs in San Mateo county didn't like the Sheriffs new policy of limited issue. Now the Chiefs get to make the decision and the Sheriff is off the hook.
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  #331  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:44 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Sounds like the Chiefs in San Mateo county didn't like the Sheriffs new policy of limited issue. Now the Chiefs get to make the decision and the Sheriff is off the hook.
Perhaps. Still doesn't explain the lack of a roadblock in the renewal process. But from reading the policy, it doesn't sound like the CoP is the ultimate 'decider', necessarily.

Munks is up for election this year. I wonder if this has any relation. Endorsement-seeking, perhaps?
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  #332  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:28 AM
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Default San Mateo County LTC

The issuance of LTCs in San Mateo County did recently change. I was unable to find out exactly why it changed but it may due to some political maneuvering by the various police chiefs on the Peninsula. Since I know a few LEOs on the Peninsula who are involved in the LTC application process, here is what has been told to me:

All new LTC applicants who reside in unincorporated parts of San Mateo County must apply directly to the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office. This process includes all the usual procedural stuff… application review, background interview by Sheriff’s Office, Live Scan, training class and range qualification. Tom Merson is still the go to guy for LTCs at the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office. The best day to reach him is on a Tuesday.

All new LTC applicants who reside in the incorporated cities must apply through their local police department… the key word here is through. This new process now includes the local police department’s involvement. The new LTC applicant’s local police department will review the application for completeness; conduct the initial applicant interview, verify residency and conduct the background check which includes the Live Scan. Thereafter, the local Chief of Police will then transfer the application to the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office with a “recommendation.” The San Mateo County Sheriff’s office will then consider the local police chief’s “recommendation” and either deny the application or approve the application.


Ultimately, the San Mateo County Sheriff’s office remains the LTC Issuing Authority.


I’m not sure how this new LTC MOU will affect renewal applicants and the $1,000,000.00 liability insurance requirement has been deleted for all LTC applications pursuant to Penal Code 26190(g).


There is an MOU regarding LTCs between the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office and the respective police chiefs. I’ve seen this MOU with my own eyes but haven’t read the entire document. I imagine this newly amended LTC MOU, like any other MOU policy, has been vetted by San Mateo County Counsel and the various city attorney folks.

It seems like County Counsel and the various city attorney folks are collectively interpreting Penal Code 26155(c) to support this new LTC MOU.

26155 (c) Nothing in this chapter shall preclude the chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city from entering an agreement with the sheriff of the county in which the city is located for the sheriff to process all applications for licenses, renewals of licenses, and amendments to licenses, pursuant to this chapter.

Does this mean this new LTC MOU is entirely legal and smart policy? Good question.


Good luck in San Mateo County!
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  #333  
Old 01-10-2014, 9:33 AM
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This is all great information.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but the involvement of another enforcement agency, tasked with due diligence, and ultimately wether or not the application gets "moved forward" can't be good for an already involved process. Thoughts?
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  #334  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by non sequitur View Post

All new LTC applicants who reside in the incorporated cities must apply through their local police department… the key word here is through. This new process now includes the local police department’s involvement. The new LTC applicant’s local police department will review the application for completeness; conduct the initial applicant interview, verify residency and conduct the background check which includes the Live Scan. Thereafter, the local Chief of Police will then transfer the application to the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office with a “recommendation.” The San Mateo County Sheriff’s office will then consider the local police chief’s “recommendation” and either deny the application or approve the application.


Ultimately, the San Mateo County Sheriff’s office remains the LTC Issuing Authority.
Does the SO also run its own background check? Does the SO also do its own interview? If not, it sounds like the sheriff is constructively delegating his responsibilities to the CoP and merely rubber stamping/signing off on the CoP's decision.

I ASSUME all steps in this questionable procedure are subject to PRARs and "interested parties" () will be able to see if the sheriff has ever issued a CCW where the CoP opposed it, or if the sheriff has ever denied a CCW where the CoP supported it.

If the various CoPs have different standards of GC that they use in their recommendations to the sheriff and he "rubber stamps" acc to the CoP's wishes (or he uses a different GC standard for unincorporated areas), he may be opening himself to 14th A EP lawsuits....
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  #335  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:48 AM
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Default San Mateo County LTC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Does the SO also run its own background check? Does the SO also do its own interview? If not, it sounds like the sheriff is constructively delegating his responsibilities to the CoP and merely rubber stamping/signing off on the CoP's decision.

I ASSUME all steps in this questionable procedure are subject to PRARs and "interested parties" () will be able to see if the sheriff has ever issued a CCW where the CoP opposed it, or if the sheriff has ever denied a CCW where the CoP supported it.

If the various CoPs have different standards of GC that they use in their recommendations to the sheriff and he "rubber stamps" acc to the CoP's wishes (or he uses a different GC standard for unincorporated areas), he may be opening himself to 14th A EP lawsuits....
My impression of the new LTC MOU, as it was explained to me, is that the San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office does not conduct any additional applicant interview and / or additional background investigation in addition to the local police department’s initial due diligence. I do think this new LTC MOU policy was amended to include the local police chief’s input on potential LTC holders in his/her community.

You raise some very good points regarding the new LTC MOU especially the possibility of an unintended pissing contest between the Sheriff’s Office and the respective police chiefs on the matter of “my Sheriff’s good cause vs. your Chief’s good cause” and “police chief says no and sheriff says yes” or “police chief says yes and sheriff says no.”

It’s likely that County Counsel and the various city attorneys didn’t present the possibility of these alternative LTC issuance scenarios to the law enforcement executives seeking their counsel on a new LTC MOU. Of course, my experience has been that the best and brightest attorneys usually do not work in the County Counsel’s Office or City Attorneys Office.

I think Sheriff Munks will continue to issue LTCs based on the current “elevated good cause” standard and the local police chiefs will either accept it or they won’t.
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  #336  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:18 PM
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The issuing agency is supposed to conduct that entire process. It is required by law that the Sheriff accept all CCW applications and have an internal process for accepting those applications.

By agreeing to do this, Sheriff Monks is putting up a screen to his CCW policy. He is also cowing down to CoP's who serve at the will of the those they were hired by. I see a legal problem with this statutorily.
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  #337  
Old 01-10-2014, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
The issuing agency is supposed to conduct that entire process. It is required by law that the Sheriff accept all CCW applications and have an internal process for accepting those applications.

By agreeing to do this, Sheriff Monks is putting up a screen to his CCW policy. He is also cowing down to CoP's who serve at the will of the those they were hired by. I see a legal problem with this statutorily.
That's a great point, taperxz. It'll be interesting to see the implied legalities going forward.
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  #338  
Old 01-10-2014, 2:32 PM
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So what dose this mean to all (ok the couple people) that live in a city an have a CCW will they be able to just renew at the SO or will they have to reapply with local pd??
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Old 01-10-2014, 2:33 PM
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So what dose this mean to all (ok the couple people) that live in a city an have a CCW will they be able to just renew at the SO or will they have to reapply with local pd??
It looks like you would have to re apply with the city you live in. It appears this will be the new standard for San Mateo county
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  #340  
Old 01-10-2014, 6:23 PM
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It looks like you would have to re apply with the city you live in. It appears this will be the new standard for San Mateo county
So why wasn't I told to reapply with my city?
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  #341  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:19 PM
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So why wasn't I told to reapply with my city?
Why don't you ask your Sheriff? I'm only going by what i am reading. If i'm wrong then i guess your Sheriff has some THANG going on with the CoP in the area.
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  #342  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:44 PM
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So what dose this mean to all (ok the couple people) that live in a city an have a CCW will they be able to just renew at the SO or will they have to reapply with local pd??
You renew through the sheriff's office.
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  #343  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:46 PM
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You renew through the sheriff's office.
How do you know this? If the Sheriff requires the CoP to sign off on good cause, which is required on the renewal....
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  #344  
Old 01-10-2014, 7:53 PM
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How do you know this? If the Sheriff requires the CoP to sign off on good cause, which is required on the renewal....
Because I'm going through a renewal.
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  #345  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:33 PM
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Because I'm going through a renewal.
This just started. So you might want to see what happens in two years.
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  #346  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:36 PM
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This just started. So you might want to see what happens in two years.
I just started the renewal process this year (2014).
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Old 01-10-2014, 8:43 PM
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I just started the renewal process this week.
OK, like is said renewal may be fine now but we will see in two years unless someone stops this.

There is only 160 ltc's in the county so its probably not on their priority list at this point which is good for now.

Last edited by taperxz; 01-10-2014 at 8:46 PM..
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  #348  
Old 01-14-2014, 4:00 PM
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Just posted this in the Merced thread, but it applies here too since SM is now requiring folks in cities to turn in their CCW apps to the CoP, not the sheriff.

We just won the Lu case against LASO. No more "you have to apply first and get denied before applying w/the SO" illegal requirements anymore!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...545848&page=16

If there is no appeal by LA, [San Mateo] will have to fall in line pretty fast. Even if there is an appeal, not sure a court will stay the trial court's ruling pending the appeal. IOW, things will improve in [San Mateo], just not sure if immediately.
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  #349  
Old 01-14-2014, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Just posted this in the Merced thread, but it applies here too since SM is now requiring folks in cities to turn in their CCW apps to the CoP, not the sheriff.

We just won the Lu case against LASO. No more "you have to apply first and get denied before applying w/the SO" illegal requirements anymore!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...545848&page=16

If there is no appeal by LA, [San Mateo] will have to fall in line pretty fast. Even if there is an appeal, not sure a court will stay the trial court's ruling pending the appeal. IOW, things will improve in [San Mateo], just not sure if immediately.
I certainly doubt this will be appealed by LA. They are simply being forced to follow what is already CA law.
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  #350  
Old 02-13-2014, 3:22 PM
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When should I start preparing my paperwork with the news from the 9th Circuit?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=893372
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  #351  
Old 02-13-2014, 4:24 PM
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I've been asked this so many times today, that if I had a nickel for each...I'd need a dump truck.

I say "Not yet, perhaps not any time soon."

There could be a petition for rehearing en banc. That would be 11 on the panel, vs. 3 from the decision just handed down. That means more paperwork, more arguments, and more waiting.

I don't do Federal appellate practice, but my reading of FRAP Rule 4, Rule 35 and the Circuit rules leads me to think a petition for rehearing could pop up in the next 14 days (a deadline which can apparently be extended by the court) If I'm mistaken in my read of Rule 4, then it could be as far out as 60 days, or more, before we know if there will be any further action.

I say let this development sink in and see who makes the next move (if any).

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When should I start preparing my paperwork with the news from the 9th Circuit?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=893372
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  #352  
Old 02-13-2014, 8:41 PM
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When should I start preparing my paperwork with the news from the 9th Circuit?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=893372
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  #353  
Old 02-13-2014, 8:52 PM
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F that, I'm going to return the sheriff's favor and send in a new app tomorrow or Monday.

"I wish to acquire a permit to carry a firearm for the lawful purpose of self defense." (Round 2)

I don't think there is going to be an en banc hearing, and I think only an idiot would appeal to the supreme court, they are going to affirm!
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Last edited by thedrickel; 02-13-2014 at 8:55 PM..
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  #354  
Old 02-13-2014, 9:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thedrickel View Post
I don't think there is going to be an en banc hearing, and I think only an idiot would appeal to the supreme court, they are going to affirm!
I agree with you about en banc, however SD has proven themselves to be idiots many times in the past.

Please do post what they say about if they plan to change their policies though. I'm going to ask them the same thing tomorrow.
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  #355  
Old 02-14-2014, 6:52 AM
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Does anyone know if there are range qualification criteria for the CCW in San Mateo County, # yrds, # rds, and/or # points? The SMCO SO website is a jumbled mess of tabs and links that go nowhere.
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Old 02-14-2014, 8:36 AM
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Yes, there are criteria. The San Mateo CCW app on calgunsfoundation.org lists them. They mostly seem in line with what I remember from May 2012. Some things are incorrect, however. The SO lets you list more than 1 firearm on your permit, for example. and no one cared that one pistol was owned prior to the registration requirement went into effect (bought prior to the end of FTF transactions) for another applicant. Also, there was no issue with drawing from an OWB holster (i.e. a Serpa).


Staff has changed a bit, and I haven't asked what that means (if anything) in terms of the procedures for qualification. You could always call the Range Master and ask. He might even be OK with setting up a time for you to come by the range and see where the magic happens and how things are set up.


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Does anyone know if there are range qualification criteria for the CCW in San Mateo County, # yrds, # rds, and/or # points? The SMCO SO website is a jumbled mess of tabs and links that go nowhere.
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Old 02-16-2014, 8:03 PM
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The range qualification issues are significantly less rigorous in practice and I believe the most handguns on a San Mateo permit are 5 in practice - though there really is no limit beyond the practical of the fact that you must shoot them all and you annoy the nice RSO by keeping him way too late.

Once you're approved for the LTC, the range deputies are very happy to be getting you issued.

-Gene
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  #358  
Old 02-16-2014, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Does anyone know if there are range qualification criteria for the CCW in San Mateo County, # yrds, # rds, and/or # points? The SMCO SO website is a jumbled mess of tabs and links that go nowhere.
I looked around and found that someone from Sacramento said:

Quote:
6 rounds, mag change, 6 rounds at 15 yards in 45 seconds
6 rounds, mag change, 6 rounds at 7 yards in 30 seconds
6 rounds, mag change, 6 rounds at 3 yards in 15 seconds

The target is a TQ15 and scored shots must hit inside the larger square. A scored of 31/36 is passing.
And someone from Kern county said:

Quote:
We had to shoot 15, 12, 10, 7, and 3 yards. 6 shots at each distance. The time went from 30 seconds incrementally* downward as the target came closer. B27 silhouette target, had to hit the center mass gray.
*I'm guessing they mean 6shot/30sec @15yd; 6/25sec @12yd; 6/20sec @10yd; 6/15sec @7yd; and 6/10sec @3yd

When I took my CCW class in Sacramento, back in 1990, we shot at B27 targets. All shots had to stay within the 8-ring.
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  #359  
Old 02-18-2014, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Does anyone know if there are range qualification criteria for the CCW in San Mateo County, # yrds, # rds, and/or # points? The SMCO SO website is a jumbled mess of tabs and links that go nowhere.
The total should be 48, and I think the break down is:
12 rounds @ 3 y, strong hand only
12 @ 7y
12 @ 10y
12 @ 15y

Drawn from concealment. I think a passing score is 80%, but if you cant get 100% on this, you probably shouldnt be carrying....
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:24 AM
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Has anyone been able to get a hold of the CCW person at SMSD since last week?

My phone message has not been returned...
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"It wasn't a failure of laws," said Amanda Wilcox, who along with her husband, Nick, lobbies for the California chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "I just don't see how our gun laws could have stopped something like that."
-Speaking about the Oikos mass shooting in Oakland.

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With an assault weapon you just hold the trigger back and it goes blup,blup,blup
-Michael Bloomberg confused about the difference between a machine gun and a rifle, ABC News Nightline 12/21/12
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