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  #1  
Old 02-04-2008, 9:15 PM
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Default Whats the deal with Federal Hydro Shock Ammo??

I've never heard of it before, but I hear people talking about it like it's something special? What is it and what is so great about it?
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:22 PM
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http://www.federalpremium.com/ballis...x?bullet_id=31
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:25 PM
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just use gold dots and be done with it...
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2008, 9:25 PM
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Sweet. Where can I find some in .40 S&W?
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:28 PM
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just about any gunshop. plus, ammoman.com natchezss.com http://www.outdoormarksman.com/


http://www.outdoormarksman.com/produ...roducts_id=238
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:29 PM
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hydrashoks have a narrow tungsten rod inside the hollowpoint for better penetration. Federal's HST is much better IMO but for whatever reason, doesn't get enough publicity. Usually pretty hard to find, but I was able to get it in .45 from national police supply out by escondido. HST is also more reasonably priced from what I have seen.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ammunitio...-question.html
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:31 PM
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winchester ranger SXT, HST, speer gold dots; theyre all good. buy what works for your dollar
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:34 PM
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winchester ranger SXT, HST, speer gold dots; theyre all good. buy what works for your dollar
WWB for me
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:40 PM
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wow! It's over a $1/round holy crap
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
wow! It's over a $1/round holy crap
Could end up being the best $1 you ever spend.

This isn't for target practice.
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:47 PM
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Buy a whole box of HST. It less that 35cents a round

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Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
wow! It's over a $1/round holy crap
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Old 02-04-2008, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fobjoe View Post
hydrashoks have a narrow tungsten rod inside the hollowpoint for better penetration. Federal's HST is much better IMO but for whatever reason, doesn't get enough publicity. Usually pretty hard to find, but I was able to get it in .45 from national police supply out by escondido. HST is also more reasonably priced from what I have seen.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ammunitio...-question.html
Where did you hear this little tidbit about tungsten in the hydrashock for penetration? If that were so it would be classified as armor piercing ammo which you can not buy for handguns.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:08 PM
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Hydra-Shoks??? The "deal" was 10-15 years ago. Where have you been?

Federal HST is the new cat's meow.

http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.c...-workshop.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/45hst.html

http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.c...-ranger-t.html

http://le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandWoundBallisticReport1.pdf

Happy shopping...

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/p...-147gr-hp-ammo

Penetration, weight retention through common barriers, and largest possible permanent wound channel for a given caliber. It's a very well designed bullet, but none of the above means jack sh!!t if you can't put it where it counts.
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:13 PM
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The vendor that sold them to me at a gun show said that the post was made of tungten....who knows, he may have been BSing me just to make a sale. What I should have said was hydroshoks are recognizable by having that center post within the hollowpoint.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:22 PM
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Im a complete newb. What is the difference between 165 gr and 180 gr benefits?
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:27 PM
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For a long while like almost 20 years ago, they were the one of the best, if not the best, rounds. For awhile, it was a top round, especially its 230 gr .45ACP. Hydrashoks were the standard all the other rounds are measured. Though it is still an effective round, it's obsolete in comparison to today's generation of rounds (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc...) that are better performers nowadays.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:27 PM
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165 grain will go faster, have less recoil and penetrate less. Go with the heavier grain.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
Im a complete newb. What is the difference between 165 gr and 180 gr benefits?
Two schools of thought, slow and heavy or fast and light. Both sides can argue until they are blue in the face, but I think that if you put either of those rounds center of mass on a person it doesn't really matter.

With any semi-auto I would run a mag or two through the gun of whatever you ended up with just to be safe. So buy enough ammo to do that and then keep a couple of mags of the ammo loaded for use. If it were a wheel gun, you wouldn't need to bother.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:40 PM
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Well I am going to get some 180gr HST tonight - box of 50. I will save this ammo for home defense use. I'll keep shooting my winchester white box at the range and plinking
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:42 PM
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My boss at my other job is a Sr gunsite instructor. He was telling me (and showed me) about a study how they set up interior walls and exterior walls behind them to simulate a house. They tried different ball ammo, hollow points, and .223 rounds. The .223 rounds wouldnt penetrate though the interior wall. The 9mm ball penetrated interior only. I cant remember all of the rounds from the study but some would just get caught in interior wall and some would just get caught in the exterior wall. Nothing weird right? Well then we got the the .45s. FMJ military ball got caught in exterior wall after penetrating interior. Federal Hydrashok 45 went through both interior and exterior wall The only round that went through both! He then went on to tell me how it really doe just over penetrate more than winchester and that he prefurs winchester over hydra shok.
I need to try that HST stuff though. I have heard good stuff about it. Currently in my 45s I have either gold dot or golden sabre.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:48 PM
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Good choice!
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
Well I am going to get some 180gr HST tonight - box of 50. I will save this ammo for home defense use. I'll keep shooting my winchester white box at the range and plinking
Just a word here, any ammo you choose for defense, you should also be shooting. Now it doesn't need to be your primary range copper, but you should shoot it through your gun(s) of choice making sure it feeds 100% and you feel good with it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:53 PM
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Good site with information on this topic: http://theboxotruth.com/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog5150 View Post
My boss at my other job is a Sr gunsite instructor. He was telling me (and showed me) about a study how they set up interior walls and exterior walls behind them to simulate a house. They tried different ball ammo, hollow points, and .223 rounds. The .223 rounds wouldnt penetrate though the interior wall. The 9mm ball penetrated interior only. I cant remember all of the rounds from the study but some would just get caught in interior wall and some would just get caught in the exterior wall. Nothing weird right? Well then we got the the .45s. FMJ military ball got caught in exterior wall after penetrating interior. Federal Hydrashok 45 went through both interior and exterior wall The only round that went through both! He then went on to tell me how it really doe just over penetrate more than winchester and that he prefurs winchester over hydra shok.
I need to try that HST stuff though. I have heard good stuff about it. Currently in my 45s I have either gold dot or golden sabre.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2008, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fobjoe View Post
The vendor that sold them to me at a gun show said that the post was made of tungten....who knows, he may have been BSing me just to make a sale. What I should have said was hydroshoks are recognizable by having that center post within the hollowpoint.
Yep, he was BSing you. It is an all lead core. The center post is there to help with even and full expansion of the bullet.

Tungsten is used as a core to armor piercing rifle bullets. The FN5.7 has a AP round made for it (I am not sure if the core is tungsten or just a hardened steel) and while not for general sale to the public just the AP round exsisting ie what made a bunch of anti gun types get their panties in a wad. Then there is the whole steel core 7.62x39 fitting a AR style pistol which caused a stink years ago.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2008, 7:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
wow! It's over a $1/round holy crap
Any good SD round is going to cost about the same, it's not practice ammo. Just put enough through to make sure that it feeds OK. You can get WWB JHP SD ammo at Wallyworld .45 ACP $23.58/50, that's a bit cheaper.
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Old 02-05-2008, 7:37 AM
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Damn I must be in the dark then I'm running Hydro-shocks in all my defense guns. Recently an LEO at the local range told me the Ranger was like a black talon bullet is that true? I have a mag of those too but I'm not sure those are still good. What's better than that?

Last edited by rue; 02-05-2008 at 7:39 AM..
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Old 02-05-2008, 8:31 AM
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Here's the deal; any and all premium, high performance Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition from any of the major manufacturers all does the same basic thing - make big bloody holes in flesh. That's the reality. Everyone has their gimmick; HyroShock has the post; Ranger is cleaned up Black Talon, Gold Dot has the, well... gold dot. Starfire had their weird reverse flutes. They all work the same, though the marketing people for the various manufacturers would have you believe different.
The most important thing is to find a round that functions in your firearms of choice reliably and that's an individual thing, no way to tell in advance. Then determine if that particular round and weapon combo is accurate for you and self-defense accuracy ISN'T static range accuracy. Don't just run the target out to 15 yards in a well lit range and slow fire a couple of magazines. If you can (if your range allows it) draw from concealment (if that's your bag) or just rapid fire two rounds at seven to ten yards. If you can keep both rounds on a paper plate at that distance consistently, then that's a pretty good indicator of "accuracy" for your chosen round/weapon combo.
Another consideration is bullet weight/velocity vs. barrel length. From incredibly serious personal experience, I learned the hard way that Fed HS .45 230 grn **WILL NOT** reliably expand from a short barrel (Glock 30 3.75" barrel) - something to keep in mind when choosing a round/weapon combo. Short barrels desperately need high velocity and lighter rounds to reliably expand.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-05-2008, 9:21 AM
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I used to use Hydrashok, I think from the early 1990's to about 2001-2. I now use Gold-Dot. The Hydrashok design has been around for a long time. The fact that it's been around for so long probably means it's a good design. But then, HST (HydraShok Two?) is supposed to be an improvement over it.

In any case, my personal choice has more to do with feeding reliability than the performance is the ammo. I've had a couple of 45 ACP Hydrashok where the copper jacket is about 1-2mm higher than the lead core, causing jams (the jacket gets caught, deforms, and hangs on the feeding ramp).

Actual bullet performance is probably very similar. Not enough to really worry about. Reliability and shot placement are by are my 1st and 2nd concern.
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Old 02-05-2008, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog5150 View Post
My boss at my other job is a Sr gunsite instructor. He was telling me (and showed me) about a study how they set up interior walls and exterior walls behind them to simulate a house. They tried different ball ammo, hollow points, and .223 rounds. The .223 rounds wouldnt penetrate though the interior wall. The 9mm ball penetrated interior only. I cant remember all of the rounds from the study but some would just get caught in interior wall and some would just get caught in the exterior wall. Nothing weird right? Well then we got the the .45s. FMJ military ball got caught in exterior wall after penetrating interior. Federal Hydrashok 45 went through both interior and exterior wall The only round that went through both! He then went on to tell me how it really doe just over penetrate more than winchester and that he prefurs winchester over hydra shok.
I need to try that HST stuff though. I have heard good stuff about it. Currently in my 45s I have either gold dot or golden sabre.
Ummm isn't 223 much much higher velocity than any of these rounds so it should penetrate much better than a pistol. Also, I thought 9mm was the best penetrator and .45ACP the worst.
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Old 02-05-2008, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
The center post is there to help with even and full expansion of the bullet.
I read somewhere that the post helped expansion by keeping the hollow point from getting clogged up with clothing/flesh.
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Old 02-05-2008, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
I read somewhere that the post helped expansion by keeping the hollow point from getting clogged up with clothing/flesh.
What the Federal Inc. guys will tell you is that the post takes up the "dead space" in the middle of the hollow cavity in the bullet nose; thereby focusing expansion pressure in an annulus (donut shape) to facilitate the splinting of the jacket and therefore full expansion.
Starfire (Eldorado/PMC) was designed with internal fluting of the lead cavity walls; they said that the flutes focused the expansion pressure to facilitate the jacket splitting and expanding.
Winchester said "No, what you REALLY need is little sharp shards of jacket making a little buzz saw/shuriken." (and also by the way making a sharps hazard for EMTs and ER Docs). Like the sharp little points were going to make a damn bit of difference in the temporary stretch cavity of the wound channel. Bah.

It's called marketing people.

There's only really three things you need to know, wring the most efficiency out of absolutely any self defense ammo, and that is:

Shot placement
Shot placement

and oh yeah,

Shot placement.

If you're good enough you just carry a lil' Beretta .22 and put the rounds through the bad guy's eyeballs.
Most of us aren't that good though.

Did I mention shot placement?
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPen View Post
Ummm isn't 223 much much higher velocity than any of these rounds so it should penetrate much better than a pistol. Also, I thought 9mm was the best penetrator and .45ACP the worst.
The .223 will fragment usually (soft point or HP more so) and being a much lighter buller (40 to 77 grains) will penetrate less than a heavier bullet that is designed to retain it's mass like most hollow points or FMJ.
Most defense pistol bullets are designed to mot fragment so that they will penetrate deeper into the target. A rifle bullet like the .223 uses speed to penetrate and will sometimes fragment but not always. A pistol bullet (most) can not develop the velocity of a rifle round so they use mass to get the job done.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
The .223 will fragment usually (soft point or HP more so)
If I remember correctly; one of the reasons for a canelure on military FMJ (M193) 5.56 is that, above a certain velocity (the magic 2700 f.p.s.) the round tends to split in flesh, at that point, creating two separate wound channels.
The air space at the tip of SS109/M855 is supposed to facilitate the round tumbling in flesh... I think.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:39 AM
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I beleive that the 55 grn (M193 maybe) did split when the velicoty was correct but the 62 grn ss109 won't. The ss109 was mainly designed to deal with soliders wearing body armor and helmets which it works well against but against targets not wearing any it has proven to be less effictive than the old 55 grn ammo.
The russian 5.54 (5N7) round had a large air gap and the core being at the rear of the bullet would yaw after a certian depth in flesh creating a larger wound channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45x39 not sure how accurate the description is

Last edited by chuck762; 02-05-2008 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Another consideration is bullet weight/velocity vs. barrel length. From incredibly serious personal experience, I learned the hard way that Fed HS .45 230 grn **WILL NOT** reliably expand from a short barrel (Glock 30 3.75" barrel) - something to keep in mind when choosing a round/weapon combo. Short barrels desperately need high velocity and lighter rounds to reliably expand.
Just my 2 cents.
This is so true it is amazing. EVERYTHING I have read about bullet weight, caliber, and velocity point directly to this.

Yet even the "guru's" STILL say that big and slow is best like it's some sort of magic shield.

If you decide to carry a firearm for personal defense, you need to do your homework about what bullets in what calibers and weights will do the best FOR YOU in your SPECIFIC situation. Don't just take the recommendations of "experts" who may not know what the heck they're talking about (or who desperately need a flashlite).

For this, the internet is your friend so long as you don't just ask the ninjas and go with what they say to use.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Short barrels desperately need high velocity and lighter rounds to reliably expand.
Exactly why I use the 130 Hydra Shok instead of the 158 for HD in my 4" barrel .357.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King$nake View Post
Well I am going to get some 180gr HST tonight - box of 50. I will save this ammo for home defense use. I'll keep shooting my winchester white box at the range and plinking
NO!! You can't SAVE $$ ammo just for HD and just NOT practice with them.

Use whatever you PRACTICE with for HD!

If you REALLY think your HD is TOO pricy, then at least shoot a magazine or 2 of the particular HD ammo that you will be using EVERY time you go to the range, so that you are familiar with its POA and POI relationship, recoil, muzzle flashes, etc.... so that you won't be stunt by your own ammo the time when you REALLY needs it.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:29 PM
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here comes rivvie with his pictures! I love me some eye candy.

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Old 02-05-2008, 1:09 PM
SnWnMe SnWnMe is offline
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I'm with the 1/4 gunner. Shot placement and the pursuit of good shot placement trumps all.

And I also buy the most inexpensive HPs I can find (normally these would be ED Starfires). I don't too much stock in expansion. It is good to have but since it is not guaranteed I would rather have a wide, full weight bullet that will go in deep.
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  #40  
Old 02-05-2008, 1:35 PM
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QuarterBoreGunner QuarterBoreGunner is offline
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Quote:
I don't too much stock in expansion
What's that line? "9mm may expand; but .45 won't shrink!"
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I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
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Farmers' mums.
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