Single Shot Exemption Explanation/Database Thread

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by KyleLoc

I am sorry, after reading through the thread I do not see a specific dealer that will do a SSE for a CZ SP-01 Shadow. Did I miss a post from someone?

Only place that I can 100% confirm is O.C. Armory in LA. But I am in Sacramento so that is quite a drive to do twice.

Any help?

I apologize in advance if I missed a post on it already.

We'll have universal barrels in a few weeks that will fit any of these calibers:

.380
9mm
.40 S&W
.45ACP

[Cali_Tac]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

Yep. 10 months and counting until the apparent end of SSE. Transfers completed by the enactment date (01/01/14) will remain legal. Get them while you can!

So, I called about the wait time on an ar pistol & the reply was 12 to 15 months. So by that time SSE would no longer be applicable? Is that right.

[49erlife]

So what id happening with SSE pistols in 10 months. I looked at the thread here but didnt see any info. Please. Inform me. Thank you Guys.

[49erlife]

*is

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by 49erlife

So what id happening with SSE pistols in 10 months. I looked at the thread here but didnt see any info. Please. Inform me. Thank you Guys.

current proposals in the legislature might change the rules for SSE. But at this point, nothing has been passed.

[Saym14]

the first 5 rules of SSE 2013

1. tablerock Arms is awesome - if Ryan can get what you need. or you can have it shipped to him
2. EBR is awesome too but is limited to what is in stock.
3. OC armory is also GTG and they say they can SSE ANY gun, if they or you can get it.
4. crystal balls - no one knows what SSE laws or any laws for that metter will be in 10 months.
5. if you want an AR pistol look at the 80 percent lower. haha if you can find an -80 percent.

the lesson theN seems to be "if you can /they can find it. and the moral to the story " you shoulda bought it last year !!!!!

[49erlife]

Do you have a link to the proposals that apply to SSE? I cant find any.

[zrunr]

Originally Posted by Tenny

EBR Works has changed their prices.


Source: http://www.ebrwebstore.com/sse-sales...ler-transfers/

Probably because of:

Source: http://www.ebrwebstore.com/

Why would a possible prohibition on SSE transfers at some future date trigger a 50% price increase? What has changed about the cost of an SSE transfer? Will the failure of this bill to pass trigger a SSE transfer price reduction?

Are there any on 01 FFLs who allow customers to do their own SSE conversions?

[Cyc Wid It]

Speculation: a possible prohibition leads to panic buying, which requires more parts

Regarding your last question, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're asking if a shop will let you convert the gun at their shop with your own parts before you begin DROS, I can't imagine any shop being amenable to that (excluding any legal issues), but who knows.

[zrunr]

I think you are giving the FFL a generous benefit of doubt. My guess is that they are charging more because they are trying to exploit the current wave of panic that some people feel about the future of semi-auto rifles in CA.

The first page discusses a justification for an 01 to allow single shot conversion. Is any 01 following that opinion?

[kemasa]

There is the law of supply and demand, as well as return on investment.

It is funny that people tried to grind the prices down saying that they can get things cheaper elsewhere and that is ok, but if a business raises their prices it is all sorts of negative things. In reality, it is just "turn about", which is fair play :-).

Yes, an 01 FFL can do the conversion, but there is risk/reward issues involved.

If a business invests money in order to do something, such as the SSE where the barrels and zero round magazine is needed and expects to get the money back over time, but then suddenly the time that they will be able to get a return on investment may be shortened, it is reasonable for the business to increase the price to get the same return on investment. Businesses are not there to provide customers with free services, although with firearms it seems that many people think that the FFL should charge almost nothing to do a transfer. This has been discussed numerous times.

In terms of supply and demand, there is limited supply and if the demand goes up, it is reasonable to increase the price to reduce the demand. In other words, if you don't like the price, then find another place which does it cheaper.

As to using your own parts, if you can get the parts to do it and you can show that it is 100%, then I would suspect that some FFLs would allow you to do it, but the cost of the barrel might be high and you also need to account for the time that the FFL will have to deal with it. Since it will take additional time, the FFL's fee should be higher. I would suggest that you not have the attitude that the FFL should do a lot of extra work for free since then the FFL has no reason to do it. The transfer fee is not worth it.

[lugnutwrench]

<OffTopic>
+1 to kemasa for a great explanation. Laypersons generally misuse the term "price gouging" to apply to almost any price that exceeds their desire to complete a transaction. Gouging is actually a very narrow concept which basically amounts to a seller raising the sale price for a single transaction higher than what she would otherwise seek based solely on the desperation of an individual buyer. (I.E., the "How much is it worth to you?" or "How much have you got?" negotiation.)

If buyers collectively drive up demand, price increases are the natural and necessary response to insure efficient allocation. No one is forcing anyone to engage in gun purchases involuntarily. Each buyer has the choice to walk away, wait, seek an alternative, go to a competitor, etc. For a more complete discussion, see: EconTalk: Munger on John Locke, Prices, and Hurricane Sandy.

This guy understands.
</OffTopic>

[EBR Works]

Suffice it to say that this decision was driven by simple economics and not the intent to "gouge" anyone. We recently invested a large amount of money in equipment to improve our offerings. This was done before the current surge in pending legislation. Our time frame to recoup our investment has now been reduced to 9 months since virtually everything we currently offer will likely be illegal next year. After discussion with our attorney and others, it seems probable that most of the current legislation will pass essentially ending our business model.

We also observed that several of our competitors were offering transfer services at much higher prices. Our fees are now more in line with these rates.

Unavailability of inventory has also devastated us since there is now virtually nothing to sell. How long this supply constraint will continue is very uncertain.

We will continue to offer the excellent service our clients have come to expect for as long as the legal environment in CA allows.

[Ricky-Ray]

Originally Posted by kemasa

There is the law of supply and demand, as well as return on investment.

It is funny that people tried to grind the prices down saying that they can get things cheaper elsewhere and that is ok, but if a business raises their prices it is all sorts of negative things. In reality, it is just "turn about", which is fair play :-).

Yes, an 01 FFL can do the conversion, but there is risk/reward issues involved.

If a business invests money in order to do something, such as the SSE where the barrels and zero round magazine is needed and expects to get the money back over time, but then suddenly the time that they will be able to get a return on investment may be shortened, it is reasonable for the business to increase the price to get the same return on investment. Businesses are not there to provide customers with free services, although with firearms it seems that many people think that the FFL should charge almost nothing to do a transfer. This has been discussed numerous times.

In terms of supply and demand, there is limited supply and if the demand goes up, it is reasonable to increase the price to reduce the demand. In other words, if you don't like the price, then find another place which does it cheaper.

As to using your own parts, if you can get the parts to do it and you can show that it is 100%, then I would suspect that some FFLs would allow you to do it, but the cost of the barrel might be high and you also need to account for the time that the FFL will have to deal with it. Since it will take additional time, the FFL's fee should be higher. I would suggest that you not have the attitude that the FFL should do a lot of extra work for free since then the FFL has no reason to do it. The transfer fee is not worth it.

Well said. Simple Economics 101, Law of Supply and Demand.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

Suffice it to say that this decision was driven by simple economics and not the intent to "gouge" anyone.

Just admit it, you are a gouger since charging anything is gouging. You should offer the service for free or perhaps pay people to do it for them. It should be free transfers for all!!

[lugnutwrench]

Originally Posted by kemasa

Just admit it, you are a gouger since charging anything is gouging. You should offer the service for free or perhaps pay people to do it for them. It should be free transfers for all!!

Oh yes, of course what you say is true. However, in this case, we have government-mandated gouging since it is the state who imposes the additional work and fees to begin with....

[zrunr]

I am all for the free market and freedom to charge what the market will bear except when government mandates are the basis for the charges. We don't have a free market here. I would hate to speculate what a PPT would cost in most shops if the fees were not set by law. Of course the entire PPT process is unnecessary and antiquated at best. We should be able to do an instant background check without going to an FFL to sell a used gun if the state insists on such things.

At least some transfer FFLs were honest about their price increases. I was told by one that he so many transfers currently that can't keep up with the work. There are plenty of GB and other sales to keep him fully occupied.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by lugnutwrench

Oh yes, of course what you say is true. However, in this case, we have government-mandated gouging since it is the state who imposes the additional work and fees to begin with....

The funny thing is that the government forces the FFL to give a discounted fee ($10), but still requires that the government gets their normal fee ($25).

It is interesting that many times when I am doing a transfer, the state gets more money through sales tax than I do, but I get to do all the work, including having to do the sales tax return at no cost, plus due to the forced rounding, I often have to send in more money than I collected for sales tax.

[lugnutwrench]

Originally Posted by kemasa

The funny thing is that the government forces the FFL to give a discounted fee ($10), but still requires that the government gets their normal fee ($25).

It is interesting that many times when I am doing a transfer, the state gets more money through sales tax than I do, but I get to do all the work, including having to do the sales tax return at no cost, plus due to the forced rounding, I often have to send in more money than I collected for sales tax.

Silly citizen, you work for the collective, not yourself. Oh, you mean you didn't realize that and now you're no longer motivated to do a good job? We have methods of motivating you....

[Duff45]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

... After discussion with our attorney and others, it seems probable that most of the current legislation will pass ....

Sorry this is kind of a hi-jack, but is there anything we can do to fight passage of this legislation? I've already sent multiple emails to my representatives and gotten all the canned responses.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by Duff45

Sorry this is kind of a hi-jack, but is there anything we can do to fight passage of this legislation? I've already sent multiple emails to my representatives and gotten all the canned responses.

Donate to your 2A organization of choice!

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by zrunr

I am all for the free market and freedom to charge what the market will bear except when government mandates are the basis for the charges. We don't have a free market here. I would hate to speculate what a PPT would cost in most shops if the fees were not set by law. Of course the entire PPT process is unnecessary and antiquated at best. We should be able to do an instant background check without going to an FFL to sell a used gun if the state insists on such things.

At least some transfer FFLs were honest about their price increases. I was told by one that he so many transfers currently that can't keep up with the work. There are plenty of GB and other sales to keep him fully occupied.

yep, me too... I wonder if it's the same one

[ocs11115]

EBR works, I'm having a cz 75b stainless sent to a local ffl/gunsmith in oc. We need the parts for the SSE conversion. Could we get that stuff from you?

[zrunr]

Call OC Armory. They are the best at this at a very fair price.

[Cyc Wid It]

Originally Posted by ocs11115

EBR works, I'm having a cz 75b stainless sent to a local ffl/gunsmith in oc. We need the parts for the SSE conversion. Could we get that stuff from you?

While I'm sure they check the thread relatively often, you should really call them to find out.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by ocs11115

EBR works, I'm having a cz 75b stainless sent to a local ffl/gunsmith in oc. We need the parts for the SSE conversion. Could we get that stuff from you?

Yep, call OC Armory. We only do SSE at our location in Thousand Oaks.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

Yep, call OC Armory. We only do SSE at our location in Thousand Oaks.

Does OC armory do SSE conversions? 1911?

[MIW173]

Does any one out there do a SSE for a Micro Desert Eagle 380 ACP if so would love to get that info?? Thanks

[B16]

Just a quick question, but did the wording of AB169 change from a few weeks ago? I remember reading the bill and it mentioning the SSE, but now it seems to have been dropped.

Can anyone clarify?

[Duff45]

I think its still there and it passed out of the Assembly Public Safety Committee and now goes to the Assembly Appropriations Committee.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...arch_keywords=

(2) Existing law makes the provisions defining and governing unsafe handguns inapplicable to a single-shot pistol, as specified.
This bill would instead make the provisions defining and governing unsafe handguns inapplicable to a single-shot pistol with a break top or bolt action. The bill would make this exemption inapplicable to a semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode. By expanding the definition of a crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

[Cyc Wid It]

This is a good reminder for everyone to at the very least check the call to action sticky if you don't feel like following the 2A section closely. Lots of people (CGF and others) are putting in significant work in our best interest. Indifference and laziness have cost us enough already.

There are lots of ways to help. You can help by donating (money and/or time) to be sure, but everyone should at least be able to contribute the baseline: be informed, help inform others, and vote. Skip some TV time and get up to speed!

[B16]

Originally Posted by Duff45

I think its still there and it passed out of the Assembly Public Safety Committee and now goes to the Assembly Appropriations Committee.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...arch_keywords=

Thanks Duff.

I was re-reading the bill and the text you posted helped clear up my confusion.

[lrc1]

Kittery Trading Post in Maine has M&P Shields, but won't ship them to an FFL in California. I tried to explain SSE but they wont ship here. Can anyone recommend out of state dealers who have experience shipping off roster guns shipping into California? Thanks.

[OldBlueMan]

Check with Ryan at Table Rock Arms in Medford, OR. He's SSEing a PPQ for me before sending it to my SoCal FFL.

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by lrc1

Kittery Trading Post in Maine has M&P Shields, but won't ship them to an FFL in California. I tried to explain SSE but they wont ship here. Can anyone recommend out of state dealers who have experience shipping off roster guns shipping into California? Thanks.

keep an eye on Gun Broker... if you see one worth bidding on (or purchasing at buy now price), send a message to seller and explain that you have an 07 FFL that will make weapon compliant... typically they will agree and tell you that if you win the auction (or purchase at buy now price), you need to have FFL send their info (and sometimes a note, either fax or email).

There are also times that they will say if your FFL excepts as is, they will ship.

That's been my experience anyway.

[c-wick]

if a friend buys a pistol in NV and brings it to CA and I buy it from him ftf at a CA FFL with the intent on SSE'ing it at the FFL, does this incur the CA sales tax since it is a "private party transaction" (i understand the term ppt is reserved for CA residents)?
is this even possible or does non-compliant gun need to be shipped from FFL to FFL for SSE?

[OldBlueMan]

If the friend is a resident of CA, you can PPT it directly without having to SSE it. The roster doesn't apply to private party transactions. You also won't be charged the sales tax, as you mention.

If your friend is a CA resident and purchased the gun in Nevada, he/she will likely have broken the law if a CA resident (see this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873)

If your friend is not a CA resident, and moved here after purchasing the gun and wants to sell the gun to you, that can be handled as a normal PPT. Your friend will need to notify the state of the guns using this form:http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf within 60 days of bringing the gun into CA.

If your friend is not a CA resident and does not intend to become one, it gets tricky. According to the CGF wiki, it may work if 1)face-to-face transaction in California, and 2)the seller has CA or military ID as those are the only two forms of ID permitted for the DROS process (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...rnia_residents)

Good luck!

[bigbob76]

When I was buying an off list pistol from somebody that moved here I couldn't
Get an FFL to do a ppt until he had a ca id

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by c-wick

if a friend buys a pistol in NV and brings it to CA and I buy it from him ftf at a CA FFL with the intent on SSE'ing it at the FFL, does this incur the CA sales tax since it is a "private party transaction" (i understand the term ppt is reserved for CA residents)?
is this even possible or does non-compliant gun need to be shipped from FFL to FFL for SSE?

Unless your friend is a CA resident, it would be subject to sales tax since the CA BOE has used the excuse that firearms from out of state are required by Federal law to go through a CA FFL, which makes them subject to sales tax (a change of view, although the law did not change).

A CA PPT is only between two residents of CA.

The firearm does not need to be shipped FFL to FFL. The restrictions only apply to the transfer of the firearm to the end user, which means that the firearm is not illegal nor does it have any additional restrictions under the law (other than a dealer sale, which is more than you think) than any other firearm.

[c-wick]

Originally Posted by OldBlueMan

If your friend is not a CA resident and does not intend to become one, it gets tricky. According to the CGF wiki, it may work if 1)face-to-face transaction in California, and 2)the seller has CA or military ID as those are the only two forms of ID permitted for the DROS process (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...rnia_residents)

Good luck!

suppose i should have added a few more details:
he is a non CA resident
has mil ID
gun can be brought to my local CA FFL for FTF transfer

these would be the costs incurred:
CA sales tax (since out of state gun)
out of state transfer fee
DROS

anything else i am missing? would SSE even be needed since gun is being personally taken to FFL by original owner?