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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 06-03-2019, 4:04 AM
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Default Looking to duplicate PMC .357 Mag 158 full house...

I don't have any 158gr semi-jacketed .357 Mag. for my GP-100 yet, only plated and 124gr semi-jackets, but after 7/2018 I am looking to dupe PMC's 158 grain full house loads with some semi-jackets.

PMC lists their Bronze 158gr .357 Mag. loads at 1,471 FPS.
I assume this was tested in a rifle?

Ramshot only lists 158gr Enforcer data from 1,150 FPS up to 1,258 FPS.
I assume this from a revolver (long barrel)?

Hodgdon lists 158gr Universal w/6.3gr of powder @ 1133 FPS.

1) What powder do you use for 158gr semi-jacketed full-house .357 Mag. loads?

2) How fast do you push plated?

3) How fast do you push PC lead, say 18 BRN?
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Last edited by the86d; 06-03-2019 at 4:17 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2019, 5:42 AM
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http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2019, 6:56 AM
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The only way to know for sure is to chrono the PMC ammo from your gun. Then load to the same velocity from your gun. H110/296 is one of the better powders for full velocity loads in a 357.
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Old 06-03-2019, 3:28 PM
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H110/296 will get you what you want, just work up your loads and keep an eye out for over pressure.
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Old 06-03-2019, 5:40 PM
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Check out Bluedot or Winchester 296.
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Old 06-03-2019, 7:26 PM
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I like Lil Gun because it yields higher velocities with relatively lower pressures compared to say HS6. Burns hot and produces fireballs, so I only use it with jacketed or plated bullets. I've used Ranier plated in magnums and the manufacturer says stay under 1200fps.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:08 PM
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110 or 296. Don't forget to read the instructions.
1979 called and they want their sheet back.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2019, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
110 or 296. Don't forget to read the instructions.
1979 called and they want their sheet back.
Great point they do list a current load for a 158 grain bullet but you'll notice short range between minimum and max recommended loads stay with their numbers.
I believe it's 1400+ FPS I've been using it for probably 30+ years for .357 & 44 mag.
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Old 06-04-2019, 2:05 PM
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In my experience you need a 6+ inch barrel to make the best use of 296/H110, 2400 being slightly faster will give a bit more velocity in 4" barrels.

Cheers,
W-W
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Old 06-04-2019, 5:26 PM
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Hodgdon's data for Lil'Gun has a starting load in excess of the velocity you want, but may be of interest to you due to the low CUP listed.
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  #11  
Old 06-05-2019, 6:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
110 or 296. Don't forget to read the instructions.
1979 called and they want their sheet back.
I have a old Speer # NINE reloading handbook I looked up the 158 gr load you are right they are scary I see my hand written 16.0 grains which was 1.3 grains under max, shot these out of a S&W 28 with 6 inch barrel.
Would not do these today.
Of course powder selection back then not like today.
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2019, 7:18 AM
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Nothing gets you better performance than 296/110, 2400, and blue dot.

I am currently loading 14.2 gr of 2400 under a 158 jsp. Max is 14.8.

296 and 110 are great, but they leak out of my powder measure.
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Old 06-05-2019, 8:22 PM
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Tom-ADC
Glad to be of service. Those Magnum loads surely do not leave much room for error.

God Bless America
Was that you reporting on a brand name powder thrower that is NFG a while back? Leaking powder, can't have that.
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Old 06-05-2019, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
God Bless America
Was that you reporting on a brand name powder thrower that is NFG a while back? Leaking powder, can't have that.
The Lee Pro Auto Disk measure leaks a little bit of ball powders. Not too much, but after a while it can foul the primer feed. Not a deal-breaker, still use 296 in 44 mag, but in 357 using 2400 avoids it altogether.

The Pro Auto Disc is simple and accurate, but it does spill a little bit.
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Old 06-06-2019, 9:18 AM
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Default Can a leaking powder thrower be safe or accurate?

God Bless America

I don't know, never heard of a leaking powder thrower being in operation before.

Powder...Gumming up primer dispenser...Maybe I'm too cautious or overly concerned.

But if the dispenser spills just a little and you can keep the fire & explosions down to just
a little you might be okay. I wouldn't risk it.

Like I said, I never heard of this before so maybe I'm the last to know about
leaking Lee Auto Disk Powder dispensers and my concern in unwarranted.

Last edited by hambam105; 06-06-2019 at 9:32 AM..
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2019, 3:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zouaveherb View Post
Hodgdon's data for Lil'Gun has a starting load in excess of the velocity you want, but may be of interest to you due to the low CUP listed.
WOW.

Thank you.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 AM
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Be aware that you will never reach those velocities in a 4 or 6 inch barrel revolver with a 158 grain bullet.

The Hodgdon load data for Lil Gun and 296 are for 10 inch barrel, likely a test fixture with no cylinder gap.

Also, the pressure listed for the Lil Gun max load seems suspect as it is only 25K. In contrast, max 296 load is around 40K pressure.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2019, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
Also, the pressure listed for the Lil Gun max load seems suspect as it is only 25K. In contrast, max 296 load is around 40K pressure.
Note the Hodgdon data is in CUP not psi. The Speer data was generated with a revolver, 6-inch barrel, and none of their loads exceed 1250 fps. However, my manual predates H Lil Gun, and Vhita N110 generated their highest velocity. The Speer manual has an additional section for .357 in the TC Contender with 10-inch barrel. And ALL of their loads push a 180 grain over 1,300 fps . . . Yes, the Hodgdon Lil Gun pressure data looks suspect . . . .
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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1) What powder do you use for 158gr semi-jacketed full-house .357 Mag. loads? I use hogdon h110 with magnum primers

2) How fast do you push plated?I have pushed xtreme 158gr plated semi wad cutters to 1517fps maximum average of 500 round lot. out of a 6 inch taurus model 66 older model. I charged it with exactly 16.7gains with a light crimp.

3) How fast do you push PC lead, say 18 BRN?
never loaded with PC lead.

Its possible to get velocities of 1400+ from a 6 inch revolver. However I feel that is near max load capacities with a heavy crimp. Perhaps around 16.4 grains or even 16 grains of hogdon h110.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:38 PM
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I think PMC is one of those companies that tests their revolver ammo in a non-vented 7” barrel; I’d check with them first before you start chasing something unsafe.
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  #21  
Old 07-12-2019, 9:55 AM
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I am going to Chrono the PMC next range trip, not go off of the .357 Mag. box stated velocities.

I don't want to chase the metal-shard dragon for range pickup...
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Last edited by the86d; 07-12-2019 at 9:58 AM..
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2019, 3:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zouaveherb View Post
Hodgdon's data for Lil'Gun has a starting load in excess of the velocity you want, but may be of interest to you due to the low CUP listed.
THREAD NECROMANCY.

I picked up 8# of this stuff, some Magnum SPPs, and some 158gr JHPs, shipped for just the HAZMAT cost of like $10.5 on the Midway free shipping sale.

After my next range trip, I will have a LOT of additional brass to work up loads with...

Manual says SPP, and as I recall, in 9mm using #41 primers plated projectiles went about 25-75FPS faster [CCI #41's are hard cup magnum-equiv?] out of a 5" barrel.
Since these are my first rounds to be loaded with magnum primers, what FPS increase would one expect with a firm-ish roll-crimp, switching to Magnum primers in .357 Mag (4.2" GP-100)?
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Last edited by the86d; 08-07-2019 at 4:08 AM..
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2019, 9:27 PM
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While not exactly what you are looking for....

Accurate No. 9 got me 1320FPS at 13 grains with a 145g Winchester STHP out of a Colt King Cobra 6" revolver.
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Old 08-08-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alland View Post
The only way to know for sure is to chrono the PMC ammo from your gun. Then load to the same velocity from your gun. H110/296 is one of the better powders for full velocity loads in a 357.
Yup, generally, revolver ammo is test fired in a long test barrel, like 8", with no cylinder gap. Buy a box of that PMC stuff and it won't clock anywhere near 1470 out of your gun.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:21 AM
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I like 2400 for hotter 357 loads.

What I find interesting is that the powder must have changed over the years.

The old reloading books list a slightly different powder charge that the new books and the online site.

As always follow the book
Use your eyes - do you see signs of over pressure? Case bulges, flattened primer, blown out primer?


Max velocity does not equal max accuracy.

There are times one wants the hottest possible- fun and fireballs

Other times you want to hit diet soda cans at 100 or 200 so accuracy is the must.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:29 AM
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Another thing- some powders require magnum primers. Others use standard.

If you can use a powder that uses standard, it’s one less thing to stock in your inventory
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Old 08-09-2019, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
Be aware that you will never reach those velocities in a 4 or 6 inch barrel revolver with a 158 grain bullet.

The Hodgdon load data for Lil Gun and 296 are for 10 inch barrel, likely a test fixture with no cylinder gap.

Also, the pressure listed for the Lil Gun max load seems suspect as it is only 25K. In contrast, max 296 load is around 40K pressure.
This right here^^^! Also, I use 2400 and XTP 158's. 2400 seems easier to work up loads with.
Regarding coated 158's: I load Missouri 158 LRNFP coated bullets in my Henry rifle and Blackhawk using 11.5gr 2400. Works. If you want fps, I'll post 'em.
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  #28  
Old 08-09-2019, 6:02 AM
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If trying to match a factory load I would and have done.
1 Pull the bullet.
2 Weigh the powder charge of the factory round.
3 Identify the type of powder IE Ball, Flake or extruded.
4 Refer to manuals looking for similar powder types that matched the charge weight with similar velocity and work from there.
Report back with your results.

However most manufacturers use commercial powders not available to us. Good luck.
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Old 08-09-2019, 7:38 AM
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296/110, Accurate #9, MP300.

I have some PMC Starfires and they're actually milder than other "full house" loads. Very nice and about as much as I'd want in an SP101.
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Old 08-10-2019, 8:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBronco View Post
If trying to match a factory load I would and have done.
1 Pull the bullet.
2 Weigh the powder charge of the factory round.
3 Identify the type of powder IE Ball, Flake or extruded.
4 Refer to manuals looking for similar powder types that matched the charge weight with similar velocity and work from there.
Report back with your results.

However most manufacturers use commercial powders not available to us. Good luck.
Yes, and I would add to that to first check the cartridge OAL.
Also, the length of the bullet after pulling it.
If the factory bullet is longer than what you will use for reloading, then your bullet would not be seated as deep as the factory.

But, the powder,......like someone posted, you really don't know what the factory is using.
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  #31  
Old 08-10-2019, 8:44 AM
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Lead- how fast

Slow so it does not leave a turd trail down the barrel

So if you are not casting your own, load them slow so they don’t lead up the barrel.

You can use a gas check to kick up velocity
Same with really hard cast bullets - too hard to leave a lead streak


Some are powder coating projectiles and you can load them to 2,200 FPS with no leading. Powder coat is a simple polymer - (plastic) coating.


There are a couple commercially loaded rounds that use a polymer jacket to save money. The bullets are red.
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Old 08-10-2019, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBronco View Post
If trying to match a factory load I would and have done.
1 Pull the bullet.
2 Weigh the powder charge of the factory round.
3 Identify the type of powder IE Ball, Flake or extruded.
4 Refer to manuals looking for similar powder types that matched the charge weight with similar velocity and work from there.
Report back with your results.

However most manufacturers use commercial powders not available to us. Good luck.
I was always good at solving 3 variables with 2 equations.

Skip to 4 and save a lot of mental masturbation.
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