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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#201
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ealed-weapons/
Okay, cool. So Illinois will get concealed carry, and most likely will have "Shall Issue" before California. What does this mean for California ?
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Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#202
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When Ill. goes "May Issue", sorry I do not even begin to think about "Shall Issue" since this ruling has so many scapegoats built into it, they will not be able to be overly burdensome or costly. It was pretty spelled out in the text regarding legitimate issues with Heller.
What Ill. will end up with is a NY/Cali-style issue system. |
#203
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Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#204
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In regards to restrictions placed on CCW permits, probably more like NY: very few outside of federal buildings. |
#205
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I predict that they'll have a pretty good state-wide shall issue bill by summer. They might even be able to get rid of their FOID cards. The only thing that can delay shall-issue CCW in Illinois is if the case goes en banc.
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Proud to belong to the NRA Members' Council of Santa Clara County Disclaimer: All opinions are entirely my own. |
#206
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Todd Vandermyde who is the head lobbyist in IL for both NRA-ILA & ISRA stated that both this Legislature and the next Legislature, we have a majority for "shall-issue". May-issue isn't even in the cards. We can hold out and just get FOID carry. Anti-gunners need to beg us for concessions, not the other way around. -Gray |
#207
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Political hot-potato may work, until the press throws out the first bad-shoot and the laws are then written counter to what pro-carry folks may want. Best bet is to throw out a strong shall-issue law now, IMHO. Politics is a fickle game, you don't want laws open if you lose the majority. In the end though, all the best to our friends in Ill. |
#208
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#209
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-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#210
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The latter citation is probably referring to this bit: Quote:
So you could easily be right about that (and yeah, that makes it quite pro-gun). However, that conclusion requires interpretation and/or inference, whereas the support for competence testing clearly does not. That won't be a problem in the event an appropriate case winds up getting Posner and Flaum on the panel. It could easily be a problem otherwise. I'm very uncomfortable with such things being left to the luck of the draw. Courts are adept enough at cherry picking and "interpreting" things to suit their agenda as it is (witness the amount of abuse of Heller at the hands of the various anti-gun courts). They don't need help in the form of a less-than-explicit statement in a key decision.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#211
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And I say we give them none. They've given us none for far too long. It's about time they feel some of the legislative pain they've been subjecting us to.
__________________
The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#212
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Like I said, I've adjusted my outlook accordingly. I am a realist, after all. Can't be failing to account for what happens in the real world... The criticisms I have of the decision are more nits than anything else. The real value of this decision is strategic, and it is huge.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#213
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http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...119493094.html -- Michael |
#214
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Math, like Science - it works b--ches. -Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#215
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Here's how it will go...gunnies to grabbers:
"You guys want at least training in place before 180 days are up? Fine. Please us! We want no more FOID. We want Chicago permanently out of the gun control biz (strong preemption). We want unlimited cutlery carry to go with our CCWs. We want full reciprocity with anything that even smells like another CCW permit. We want lock-boxes for our boomthings at any of the few places we'll let you disarm us. We want you all to do the Funky Chicken Dance in Daley Plaza. You think we're kidding? You're going to have to give us a LOT before we'll concede to training requirements and costs over $10. Because all we have to do is sit here, twiddle our thumbs and fart in your general direction and in 180 days we get constitutional carry and one hell of a party in downtown Chi-town baby. Leave your gangbanger friends behind if you know what's good for 'em." THAT is where we're at here. |
#216
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Teehee. Giddy like a school girl.
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#217
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Well, only 2 of the 3, anyway (I've no idea if Rovner would side with the Moore decision or not). So make that 4 out of 10 at a minimum.
With 5/10 on our side, the chance of getting a favorable ruling from at least 2 out of the 3 judges is 50% (no surprise there). With 4/10 on our side, that drops to 33%. Quote:
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#218
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I have a fantasy where they get life at hard labor unless their obstructionism causes someone to die in which case they get the death penalty.
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Politicians and criminals are moral twins separated only by legal fiction. |
#219
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Oh, and along with the general excellence of the thinking and prediction, you made me laugh out loud as well!
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#221
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Yes. YES! Exactly this. Y'all need to understand what a good position this decision puts us in. Especially: Quote:
If we could get rid of the FOID, add pre-emption and reciprocity, and accede to shall-issue with modest training requirements, I daresay that IL could be one of the more gun-friendly places in the USA. Imagine that. |
#223
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So my next prediction is that California will be the last state in the Union to go "Shall Issue", regardless of what a few California Sheriffs have done so far.
__________________
Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#224
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This is all good, but I won't be truly happy until the carry law means: Able to purchase gun legally = Allowed to carry gun concealed.
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Custom made Tail Gunner Trailer Hitch for sale. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=17820185 "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid" -Han Solo "A dull knife is as useless as the man who would dare carry it" |
#225
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Well, the list of states that fit your definition is growing all the time!
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#227
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Updated Map
Wasn't sure if I should go with Green (yet), so I played it safe.
Man that's gotta hurt the anti's. Thanks to all who made this happen and congratulations to our Illinois brothers and sisters. Last edited by Regulus; 12-12-2012 at 6:47 AM.. Reason: Thanks and congratulations. |
#228
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IL has 90 days to appeal to SCOTUS. IIRC, they have 14 days to motion for an en banc hearing. The clock is running. If they are going to stall, they will make the en banc motion, shortly. Since this is a matter of striking a State law (a serious matter, for the courts), I suspect they will be granted that motion. Should the CA7 take up the case en banc, the panel's decision will be removed. I'm assuming that a new briefing schedule will be issued... That will take up another 6 months or so. Then we will wait for a decision from the CA7. Could be another year from now. Then, should this decision affirm the panels original decision, IL could stall further by appealing to the SCOTUS. That's another year to year and a half wait... June of 2015. All during this time, the Law will remain in effect, as a stay will be granted at each and every step of the way. The above doesn't take into consideration Woollard, or at this juncture, Kachalsky (which could conceivably put the final nail in their coffin, before an en banc decision). Then we should also consider the 3 cases currently at the 9th (yes, this decision will have an affect upon them - good or ill). Should I also mention the NJ case? How about Gray's case? This is the watershed moment we have been waiting for.
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Listings of the Current 2A Cases, over at the Firing Line. |
#229
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Nah, go with green -- as in the color of the involuntary donations made to SAF in response to silly Chicago ordinances to follow.
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#230
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So this is the order in which I see the last seven hold out states becoming "Shall Issue".
1. Delaware 2. Rhode Island 3. Maryland 4. Massachusetts 5. New York 6. New Jersey 7. California If anyone sees this different, chime in.
__________________
Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#231
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http://upload.democraticunderground....=forum&id=1172 Here is a thread on yesterday's ruling: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/117291342 It's a weird place, though. If you spend more than a week there you notice it's the same people saying the same things again and again and again.
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Last edited by Mitch; 12-12-2012 at 6:58 AM.. |
#232
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I would swap 5 with 6, and add #8: D.C. (albeit not a state).
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#233
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Let me handle your property needs and I will donate 10% of the brokerage total commission to CG. Buy or sell a home. Property management including vacation rentals. We can help with loans and refi's. 10% of all commissions will be donated to CG. Serving the greater San Diego area. Aaron Ross - BRE #01865640 CA Broker |
#235
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As Al Norris pointed out, it’s still too soon for a color change. It could be only 179 days (2013) or as long as 900+ days (2015).
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Matthew D. Van Norman Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA |
#236
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"If" they are going to stall
This is Chicago/Il. folks. EXPECT a stall, expect en banc. Look at Ezell for a model - this is the same players. And the stay will continue in the meantime. See you at SCOTUS in 2015. I wish I were wrong, but the history says that's how this will play out. Great reading in the decision, and hopefully persuasive to the supes. Pray for the health of the Heller 5.
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I am or have been a) a member of the board of directors of a gun club b) NRA certified rangemaster c) been a fund raiser for NRA foundation d) life member of SAF and e) trained several hundred new college age shooters here in the PRK. If you think that posting a bagillion times here on this board makes you special you are part of the problem in this state - put down the [expletive] keyboard and try doing something positive in the real world for a change you Fudd. |
#237
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__________________
Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#238
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But if you do. . . Remember that Chicago lost Ezell at CA-7? I don't recall their asking for en banc or asking for cert? Maybe I'm not remembering correctly?
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#239
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The map was symbolic and a poke at the anti's. Last edited by Regulus; 12-12-2012 at 8:05 AM.. |
#240
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IL needs to use the "carry cliff" to bargain to get the NRA's Model Castle Doctrine law which includes, among other things, "stand your ground" and bars the BG and/or his survivors from suing the LTC/CCWer if there is no criminal conviction for the shooting.
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
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