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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-18-2019, 4:24 AM
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Talking What is Gun Control?: a hate story

Introduction

I've tried to think how best to explain to a casual bystander the controversy about gun-control, as seen by the ordinary gun-owner. This is my modest attempt. (If you like it, please share with your non-gunnie friends. After all the whole point of this satire is to reach out to that casual bystander with our side of the story!)

Scene: an airport lounge. On the TV monitors, CNN blares a story about a horrific mass shooting somewhere in America.

Me: "Wow. That's awful. At least they caught the shooter."

Alyssa Milano turns towards me and glares.

Me: "Pardon? Is there a problem?"

Alyssa Milano: "How could you possibly wear that NRA hat at a time like this?"

Me: "What? What about it? I'm an NRA member."

Alyssa Milano points to the TV.

Alyssa Milano: "This is your fault!"

Me: "No, it's the shooters fault. He will probably get the death penalty too."

Alyssa Milano then smiles a most becoming smile.

Alyssa Milano: "I've got a great idea how to solve the gun problem."

Me: "Oh? Okay, what is it?"

Alyssa Milano: "You should get punched in the throat."

Me: "What? I'd like to see you try!"

Alyssa Milano: "Oh I'm not going to do it. They are."

Me: "Huh?"

Suddenly Senator Chuck Schumer stomps on my foot, and a creepy grin spreads on his face.

Me: "Ow, that hurt!"

Chuck Schumer: "That's a step in the right direction".

Me: "You people are crazy!"

Alyssa Milano: "Now be a responsible gun owner, and take your punch to the throat."

Me: "No. I didn't do anything wrong. Leave me alone."

Then a calming presence walks up to us.

David Brin: "I heard the commotion, and I think I have the solution."

Me: "Wait, aren't you that science fiction writer?"

David Brin: "Thank you for noticing. But I propose a simple and fair compromise to settle this dispute."

Me: "Okay, I'm willing to hear you out. What is your compromise?"

David Brin: "Let them punch you in the kidney."

Me: "What! What the Hell? How is that a compromise?"

David Brin: "If you let them punch you in the kidney, they will promise to never ever do anything more than punch you in the kidney. No throat punching. See? Everyone wins! You never have to worry about a throat punch."

Me: "You're crazy too! If all of you keep chasing that craziness, you're heading for war."

Congressman Eric Swalwell: "It would be a short war, friend. We have nukes."
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Last edited by gunsandrockets; 01-21-2019 at 4:28 PM.. Reason: added invitation to share, added new line
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Old 01-18-2019, 4:57 AM
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OMG! I laughed all the way through! What a great way to describe it. Yeah, perfect description.
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:06 AM
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OMG! I laughed all the way through! What a great way to describe it. Yeah, perfect description.
Thank you so much!
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:18 AM
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It is a good story and I learned something; I did not know David Brin is an idiot on this subject. I wonder if that is why I never liked his books?
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:25 AM
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It is a good story and I learned something; I did not know David Brin is an idiot on this subject. I wonder if that is why I never liked his books?
I wasn't sure whether to include the Brin anecdote, since no one probably has ever heard of it. Just google "Jefferson Rifle".

I know of it from a personal conversation with Brin in 2002. Needless to say, I was stunned.
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Old 01-18-2019, 7:59 AM
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I was at the NRA Annual Meeting in Dallas when Alyssa Milano held her protest in the park. It was a joke. Maybe 30 people there - two of them in suits. They were her armed security. One dude was wearing a blazer about two sizes too small so you could clearly see the imprint of the gun and holster on his waist. The other guy was wearing his handgun in shoulder holster. It was comical watching shoulder holster dude trying to keep his left are along his side so no one would know he was armed. Alyssa Milano's entire PR stunt lasted about 20 minutes then she was out of there.
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Old 01-20-2019, 4:34 PM
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I read about Brin’s “Jefferson Rifle” proposal, and it appears that outside of his narrow specialty he is profoundly ignorant and either lacks critical thinking skills or is too lazy to use them.
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Old 01-21-2019, 4:43 AM
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Angry ideological possession

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Originally Posted by flyer898 View Post
I read about Brin’s “Jefferson Rifle” proposal, and it appears that outside of his narrow specialty he is profoundly ignorant and either lacks critical thinking skills or is too lazy to use them.
Brin is not dumb. What pushed my button was how in conversation with me he literally described his proposal as a "compromise". Yeah, a "compromise" in which one side takes 90% of what it wants and gives up a worthless promise of leaving the other 10% alone. Some deal.

A real compromise is where both sides give up something in other to get something. A real compromise might be something like: a (fair) universal background check law in exchange for a (real) national CCW reciprocity law. Or how about national registration in exchange for national constitutional carry?

But Brin doesn't consider the pro-gun side as having agency, the pro-gun side is just an object. His "compromise" is really just the anti-gun side giving up a little bit from the everything they want, IOW the anti-gunners only compromise with themselves while the pro-gun side are just bystanders to the deal. The only "compromise" is how far down the field the anti-gun line advances. What's mine is mine but what's yours is negotiable!

Jordan Peterson has an interesting description for that type of blinkered thinking, "ideological possession". Where the person in the grips of ideological possession doesn't think and instead regurgitates a comforting party line.

And while the dumb "Jefferson Rifle" idea is not a party line regurgitation (it is an act of imagination), Brin still exhibited ideological possession because it never seemed to occur to him his proposal rips any kind of real agency from the pro-gun side. Ideological possession may be a subconscious habit of his mind when considering politically hot topics.
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Old 01-21-2019, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GreggieBoy View Post
I was at the NRA Annual Meeting in Dallas when Alyssa Milano held her protest in the park. It was a joke. Maybe 30 people there - two of them in suits. They were her armed security. One dude was wearing a blazer about two sizes too small so you could clearly see the imprint of the gun and holster on his waist. The other guy was wearing his handgun in shoulder holster. It was comical watching shoulder holster dude trying to keep his left are along his side so no one would know he was armed. Alyssa Milano's entire PR stunt lasted about 20 minutes then she was out of there.
I missed that at the NRA convention but see a box truck driving around with some moronic message about NRA and Russia.

Thanx Op for message. I usually ask the anti's where is the USA in regard to other nations for murders per 100,000 . All are surprised at the low murder rate we have .
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/ind...RC.P5/rankings
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To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control...TD

Last edited by ja308; 01-21-2019 at 4:55 AM..
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Old 01-21-2019, 5:10 AM
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Default the platonic perfection of Alyssa Milano

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Originally Posted by GreggieBoy View Post
I was at the NRA Annual Meeting in Dallas when Alyssa Milano held her protest in the park. It was a joke. Maybe 30 people there - two of them in suits. They were her armed security. One dude was wearing a blazer about two sizes too small so you could clearly see the imprint of the gun and holster on his waist. The other guy was wearing his handgun in shoulder holster. It was comical watching shoulder holster dude trying to keep his left are along his side so no one would know he was armed. Alyssa Milano's entire PR stunt lasted about 20 minutes then she was out of there.
Alyssa Milano and her dumb NoRA organization are the perfect representation of the anti-gun movement, and everything that is so stupid and unjust about the anti-gun movement.

Just go over to NoNRA.org and you can see first hand how they get basic facts so wrong, yet they think those "facts" justify all the injustices they promote.

And Alyssa Milano, just a perfect stand in for the typical mouthy anti-gunner: a rich, middle aged, white woman. A person with power, who danger would never touch, who lives in a gated community, surrounded by armed bodyguards, yet who wants that gun taken away from a poor pizza delivery driver who works the bad side of town. Rules for thee but not for me!
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Last edited by gunsandrockets; 02-18-2019 at 11:37 AM.. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 01-21-2019, 5:28 AM
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I missed that at the NRA convention but see a box truck driving around with some moronic message about NRA and Russia.

Thanx Op for message. I usually ask the anti's where is the USA in regard to other nations for murders per 100,000 . All are surprised at the low murder rate we have .
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/ind...RC.P5/rankings
You're welcome!

If you think it might help at all, please spread my simple tale around. I want to do more than just preach to the choir.
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Old 01-21-2019, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I missed that at the NRA convention but see a box truck driving around with some moronic message about NRA and Russia.

Thanx Op for message. I usually ask the anti's where is the USA in regard to other nations for murders per 100,000 . All are surprised at the low murder rate we have .
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/ind...RC.P5/rankings
That data you show has two tales. 1) Yes, we fall in the middle of murder rates which is reasonable for one of the few countries in the world who allow ownership of guns. 2) It also builds a case for more gun control because all the nations with strict gun control have much lower murder rates. 3) I am guessing if you look at the murder rate and filter out the murders by gun it would be very very low. Or if you look at the murder rate by gun only it would be very very low.
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Old 01-21-2019, 8:21 AM
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That data you show has two tales. 1) Yes, we fall in the middle of murder rates which is reasonable for one of the few countries in the world who allow ownership of guns. 2) It also builds a case for more gun control because all the nations with strict gun control have much lower murder rates. 3) I am guessing if you look at the murder rate and filter out the murders by gun it would be very very low. Or if you look at the murder rate by gun only it would be very very low.
Good points and if you filter out americas big city's where a certain group of people are extremely violent, we would be on par with the disarmed European nations.
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When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.
To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control...TD
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ptalar View Post
That data you show has two tales. 1) Yes, we fall in the middle of murder rates which is reasonable for one of the few countries in the world who allow ownership of guns. 2) It also builds a case for more gun control because all the nations with strict gun control have much lower murder rates. 3) I am guessing if you look at the murder rate and filter out the murders by gun it would be very very low. Or if you look at the murder rate by gun only it would be very very low.
Lower murder rates? Oh really? All the nations with strict gun control? Like Brazil? Like Mexico? Those nations? Nations which have strict gun control yet they much higher murder rates?

Almost every nation on Earth has stricter gun controls than the United States. Yet the United States is about at the median when it comes to per capita murder rate among the nations of the world.

Your guess about murder rates vs gun murder rates is also wrong.

Nations with high per-capita murder rates have high rates regardless of the type of weapon used. The murder rate with knives in Latin America is much higher than the total murder rate in the United States. The non-gun murder rate in the United States is much higher than the total murder rate in Switzerland.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-7.xls

The plain fact is: a complex social problem like murder can not simply be explained away by pointing at guns.

The data does not "build a case for more gun control". The data does exactly the opposite of that.
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Last edited by gunsandrockets; 01-21-2019 at 4:14 PM..
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Old 01-21-2019, 11:57 AM
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I think it's also worthwhile to mention that many, many gun laws are based in racism. Think CA's loaded OC ban. A whole myriad of laws is built around keeping certain groups of people from morally and lawfully arming themselves.

That why when we talk to our reps about gun control regs that we oppose, we need to include the "class/group warfare" aspect of the regulation as a main focus.
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